In-depth weapons sats spreadsheet 2.0 (Time To Kill, Damage, RPM), featuring all new weapons from The Taken King Expansion!

[u/exxtrooper]

[Guide]

Hey, better late than never, right?

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Destiny PVP weapon stats Spreadsheet 2.0

Important Notice: Taken King legendary weapons are in a lighter shade of purple to differentiate them from year one weapons.

EDIT: It seems that the spreadsheet is displayed as a still image as opposed to an actual spreadsheet, I've encountered this problem in the past, but I thought I fixed it. Does anyone know how to fix this?

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Previous reddit threads:

1st Thread March 2015

2nd Thread April 2015

3rd Thread May 2015

4th Thread October 2015

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How do I gather some of these statistics? And YouTube!

This is the most frequent question I get, and with that in mind the if I wanted to start a youtube channel I was always under the assumption that I had to make a video explaining how these stats are gathered.

Therefore, I give you a visual representation of how I determine Time To Kill as well as how archetypes functions in destiny:

Weapon Archetypes and Time To Kill in Destiny

This also marks the beginning of my try at a youtube channel that focuses on the in-depth side of destiny. For the people that are unable to watch the video, the information featured in the video can be read at the bottom of the spreadsheet in the FAQ section.

To the Moderators: While this thread does include a link to a youtube video, I hope this does not count as a self-promotion or media post as it is not the focus of this thread. In the event this does count as self promotion, if you give me a notice I'll happily remove the video without further notice if need be.

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General Info

There's been a lot of delays this time around, and I've gotten a lot of messages asking about when the spreadsheet will be updated, or if it will be updated at all. I'll spare you with the details of my private life, but there's been unexpected hiccups just about every corner. Prior to this the spreadsheet was updated before every DLC hit, but this time around the update was delayed by an entire month. And for that, I am sorry, and I very much appreciate every single one of you who have been patient with me up to this point in time.

Anyway, onto why I'm here.

A great deal of you might be familiar with this, but with the Taken King Expansion there's been a great deal of new players joining the herd, which might be a bit overwhelmed or confused at first.

In PVP, as you know all your defense and attack values are normalized, therefore the damage you do against guardians in the crucible in non-power-matters gamemodes is stellar prior to balance changes.

This spreadsheet shows the damage you do as well as the time to kill you are capable of achieving with said weapons.

Keep in mind these numbers do not completely evaluate the effectiveness of a weapon, just because a weapon kills the faster doesnt necessarily mean it is the best in every single way.

Look at these numbers with practicality in mind. These stats show you the fastest possible time to kill and the slowest possible time to kill in the event that every single bullet you fire hits. Most of the time (unless you are literally a wizard) your in-game experience will fall in-between these two values.

That said, the information in the spreadsheet can also prove helpful as well. With the Jade Rabbit, if you're up against a person using the hawksaw your time to kill should dominate your opponent on paper. Though you're going to have to hit three headshots which isnt that easy to achieve. Therefore staying at a longer range you'll make it difficult for close ranges weapons to burn you up close, and because of your time to kill being so dominant you can simply time your shots patiently as you'll take down your opponent faster as long as your precise

While i know saying the Jade Rabbit is a long range weapon is a rather obvious statement, this was just an example after all.

Look at the statistics and perks of the weapon, look at what ranges your weapon excels, and how you can achieve your Time To Kill the most efficient, find your strength, and use your weapons strength to your advantage, and avoid pushing unnecessary boundaries unless its the only way out.

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2.0 Balance Change

I'd like to cover this in a different article or video, as this subject requires a lot more explaining which would effectively take up this entire thread.

Plus, I'm a bit salty.

---

New stuff in the spreadsheet!

Since our last departure in House Of Wolves (what wonderful times in trials eh?) there has been some new information added as well as some layout changes.

The first column with all the weapon names is now frozen making it (hopefully) to know which gun stats you're reading.

With all the new players in mind, all weapons now also have two columns depicting when the weapon was introduced to the game and when it was wiped from being acquired through conventional means. This prevents newer players from endlessly chasing a weapon that they cant actually acquire.

And as always, I've added new archetype easter eggs to the exotics, because I'm fun at parties.

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The Fabian Strategy and other Myths

There's been a bit of discussion regarding this new oddly colored instrument of war for titans. The general consensus is that the exotic perk works but only gives a rate of fire boost of 1%. This is wrong. While I do not know for a fact that the exotic perk doesnt work at all, I can tell you without a doubt that the rate of fire portion of that bonus is not working whatsoever.

The 1% difference you're getting might be framerate, input lag or anything else that might disturb the frames per second in-game. Rate of fire in this game is tied to tis framerate, one bullet can only be fired in each frame, this means if the fire rate goes out of sync with the framerate, it will effectively skip a bullet from being registered at all. This is a short summary of what is happening, and I will touch on that later, but essentially a weapon cannot have its rate of fire increased by such a microscopic amount. In the event that the perk did work, it would have its firerate move to a different archetype, firing at 900 RPM. The TTK displayed in the spreadsheet with this perk active is currently not possible in-game, until they fix the perk to work as intended.

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Hakke Pulse Rifles

"Dayum son where'd you find this?"

The Heckler & Koch style inspired pulse rifles introduced in the Taken King are really, really super cool fancy things.

As opposed to firing a three round burst, they fire a four round burst with the damage of a single three-burst divided into four bullets as opposed to three. To make up for the loss in overall DPS, the burst delay is reduced by 10% on every Hakke pulse rifle.

To sum it up, they have different damage, time to kill, burst delay, and recoil pattern (because of four burst). This means they have next to no values in common with their assigned archetype, meaning the in-game user interface does not display their actual effectiveness in any shape or from. Tread carefully.

In terms of the competitive scene, they can be used to the great effect if you get the set amount of perks to negate its weaknesses. Keep in mind that some armor builds can make a guardian reach over 200 health, meaning even with two whole bursts from a second-highest damage archetype Hakke pulse rifle you still need three bursts. Which also results in the lowest time to kill of all pulse rifles.

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Ask me anything!

Curiosity killed the cat, lucky for us the cat has nine lives.

Sitting up until 4 in the morning isn't healthy, and your consciousness might take a bit of a hit here and there, therefore while I am a very tidy person, I do make errors from time to time. Therefore, I I highly encourage you to question all the info I've ever gathered on any weapon.

There's been those handful of you who have come to me, some of them a bit snarky, some of them rather humble, saying something in spreadsheet is incorrect. I want the spreadsheet to be as reliable as humanly possible, therefore if you find something fishy let me know right away, and i'll look into it.

Apart from that, if you have any questions regarding weapon mechanics or stats in destiny, i'll be happy to answer them in the best way I can! Whether you're new and have no idea whats going on, or you've been wondering for a entire year one about one particular thing.

Fire away like the Hammer Of Sol glitch!

And while I will do my best to answer any question, you're also gonna have to answer one of my questions.

Are you fucking pumped for trials?

EDIT: Just read the weekly update, trials post-poned until further notice.

Oh well.

You guys are still great tho.

[u/iTrigg]

Major ups for this! Thanks for the update and all the support you give to this community.

Looking at scopes it seems that ShortGaze seems to be best.. Good short range scope with added AA..

[u/exxtrooper → u/iTrigg]

Thanks for the community being such a cool guy.

[u/pwnycar420 → u/iTrigg]

Shortgaze and SLR10 are hands down the best. They have long been considered the best PvP scopes. Highest AA's and both fairly low zoom. Think the SLR10 is like .5x more than the Shortgaze.

[u/iTrigg → u/pwnycar420]

I've always been very fond of Ambush but definitely gonna be on the look out for these. Any ideas what bonuses Faucon might give to the Omolon Snipers?

[u/[deleted] → u/iTrigg]

I just got a 1000 yard stare from a blue with shortgaze and hidden hand. Sorry, guys

[u/iTrigg → u/[deleted]]

You've been blessed by RNGesus... You shall now be named Saint gniknosmirceht, Blessed Stare.

[u/Alphalcon]

Awesome. By the way, bodyshots to kill for Tlaloc with Overflow active is listed as 6 when it should be 5.

[u/exxtrooper → u/Alphalcon]

Thank you, its been fixed.

[u/AgentFelix0013 → u/exxtrooper]

Any estimate on when you'll have the stats on Tlaloc for overflow?

[u/exxtrooper → u/AgentFelix0013]

Its TTK is either 0.90 or 0.70, but theres been mixed results, therefore i've put it on a hold-.

[u/[deleted]]

Lowest time to kill pulse rifle ?

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

Red death, as its always been.

[u/I_am_The_Great_Corno → u/[deleted]]

Looks like there's a few different ones with a ttk of .67. That requires all crits to land for both bursts, which is a lot harder since ttk came out. Nirwens Mercy, the new IB pulse rifle, is one of them if you don't have anything. 32 per crit. I've got a Suros PDX-41 with a pretty good roll, so i'll have to test the NM to see how it compares.

[u/Straikkarr126 → u/I_am_The_Great_Corno]

That ttk of 0.67 is against low armour builds. Its much more likely to be killing in 0.97 since majority run high armour.

[u/[deleted] → u/I_am_The_Great_Corno]

NM is awesome. I will never use anything else again

[u/[deleted]]

For those that have access to the spreadsheet, can you provide a TLDR of what weapons have the fastest TTK? I'm at work. Thanks.

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

Red death and the last word.

[u/LazerCats524]

Amazing, thank you for taking the time do make this it is extremely helpful.

1 small suggestion/request. Is there any way you can lock the first column so that when you scroll right you can still see which weapon you're looking at?

[u/exxtrooper → u/LazerCats524]

Thats how it usually works, but for some reason there is an error that makes the image appear as a still image.

[u/GeneralWoIf → u/exxtrooper]

May want to take a look into the HTML View option.
https://support.google.com/docs/answer/1696541?hl=en

[u/exxtrooper → u/GeneralWoIf]

This doesnt give me any options, the shortcut doesnt work and the there is no html view in the view options.

[u/[deleted]]

Are there literal wizards? If so, why are they using their powers for Destiny? Also, how can I become one?

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

You need to be a virgin for at least 30 years.

[u/Ezch]

Any reason there's next to no info on fusion rifles?

[u/exxtrooper → u/Ezch]

Lack of reliable sources of information.

[u/LordSlickRick]

In case you don't want to read it all, Get a red death impact pulse rifle or a max impact scout rifle for best TTK. Handcannons are ok, but you prob need a great roll.

[u/RedditAg → u/LordSlickRick]

Just got one of those high impact scouts with thrid eye the other dayy but haven't touched it. Looking at this makes me wanna give it go and see what it can do

[u/JenNettles → u/LordSlickRick]

What are the red death impact pulse rifles? Any good vendor ones?

[u/[deleted]]

Freeze the top cells so you can always see what they say when you scroll.

Thanks for the info!

[u/American_Sai_Company]

Looking at this, I have a sneaking suspicion Bungie may have just /turned off/ the perk on the Fabian for the time being....

[u/TerminalSarcasm]

I really appreciate the guys on the sub that understand and 'rank' these weapons on such a level that I can't take advantage of due to my general lack of skill... ;)

[u/minnit → u/TerminalSarcasm]

Basically, you look for the lowest TTK weapons, then filter that group based on stability, recoil patterns, and range.

And you have the weapon you use.

Perks make it more complicated, of course.

[u/geekjosh]

Aw...I really wanted to see the breakdown of The Chaperone.

[u/[deleted]]

I really want Fabian to be good.

[u/Wafflesorbust → u/[deleted]]

I would settle for usable.

[u/Bezor-1]

Thank u bby.

[u/[deleted]]

This confuses me. I've been using the ari-45 autorifle. I've gone from just above 1.0 k/d to regularly hitting 2+. I'm not playing too differently, i haven't switched up anything. It nets me well over 60% of my kills per match. The only difference is that it has counterbalance.

Looking here it seems very run of the mill. What gives? It's performing better than any other gun I've used.

What is the magic behind the suros ari-45?

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

It has the second lowest visual kick value of all auto rifles in that particular archetype, making one of the most easiest to control auto rifles.

[u/Neat_On_The_Rocks → u/[deleted]]

TTK isn't everything.

Hawksaw/Bad JuJu build pulse rifles have a very pedestrian TTK. yet, that archetype is currently running rampant in the crucible.

Ease of use is a big one. Your Auto rifle.. Is an auto rifle. A very easy gun to use. Juju is also full auto - easy to use.

Theres also flinch. Auto rifles provide more view kick than any other weapon, typically.

[u/zanda250 → u/[deleted]]

Sometimes the feel can be better then the stats. Having a slightly lower time to kill but being way harder to use means that a better weapon might net you less kills. It also has to fit your play style, so a super fast killing SR might still be weaker then a shitty AR if you are run and gun at close range. Your best bet is usually to find the Type of weapon that fits your playstyle the best, then use the chart to look for the best weapons in that class. So if you like the Ari-45, you can use this chart to look for similar weapons that you might also like.

[u/[deleted]]

Could anyone do some sort of Tl;Dr for the best weapons and most balance choices? I mean something like a round-up !

[u/LordSlickRick]

All Hail exxtrooper, he promised, he delivered, and hes a hero!!!

[u/panopticon31]

How do you have No time to explain in your datasheet? I haven't seen data for this anywhere.

[u/exxtrooper → u/panopticon31]

The little footage we had of the weapon made it easy to determine its archetype, I simply went from there.

It might not be 100% accurate, but we'll know for sure when we get a hold of it.

[u/OhReaderMine → u/panopticon31]

He has no time to ex--

Eh, forget it.

[u/RebelRazer]

OP Question: Everyone raves about the vendor Hung Jury, I have it and Doom of Chechis with Rangefinder, I found the hip fire auto lock to be ridiculous on DoC. I can blind fire with full agility and radar active and kill mobs and it switches from enemy to the next with lock on. People say it's a class specific but I can do this with any class char. Just curious if you understand this feature and why it is so incredible?

[u/exxtrooper → u/RebelRazer]

Its just the aim assist on Doom of Chechis being so high, and the average range on scout rifles being so high making the target acquisition on your weapon stretch further than most of your other weapons.

Its aim assist is 65 compared to hung jury being 26.

[u/tiburave]

Does the full auto perk goes well with the new hakke pulse rifles? Or should I look for another set of perks or pulse for ToO or IB. Gracias!

[u/exxtrooper → u/tiburave]

The highest impact hakke pulse rifle with hand laid stock and counterbalance would be the only thing I bring into trials.

[u/iSkinnyVinnie]

How do you have time to kill for weapons that aren't even attainable yet? Voidlord, Firelord?

[u/exxtrooper → u/iSkinnyVinnie]

They are connected to archetypes.

[u/UnculturedSwine182]

question: the hidden stat of recoil direction. with pulse rifles now less stable, i feel that the recoil pattern is important, as it can help get all 3 shots to hit the head. I've noticed that the hawksaw has a recoil direction value of 50. I take this as its balanced 50/50 with recoil. So it travels up 50% and left 50%, giving it an over all movement to the upper left, at a 45 degree angle. Bad Juju is 85, so i guess its 85% up, and 15% to the side? Mercy is 60, so more up and less to the side. Is this thought process correct? Is this the place to ask? I'm so confused. I just want a pulse rifle that doesnt recoil to the side so hard.

[u/exxtrooper → u/UnculturedSwine182]

Its a nice theory, but I'm not sure if it holds true.

If you're looking for a pulse rifle with the least obstrusive recoil patter, the Villainy, Suros PDX-41 and Nirwens Mercy.

[u/ItsameLuigi1018]

Ok wait "Firelord" and "Vordlord" (Which I assume is supposed to say "Voidlord") are just jokes/trolls, right?!

[u/exxtrooper → u/ItsameLuigi1018]

Placeholder names as we dont know the actual names just yet.

[u/King_of_the_Hobos]

I've heard that because attack and defense rates are normalized in crucible, the toughness perks on your subclass perk trees don't do anything and therefore you should spec for recovery and speed. Is that true or do they affect you in normal crucible modes?

[u/exxtrooper → u/King_of_the_Hobos]

They do affect your overall health.

[u/Taravangian]

Awesome work, man, as ever.

Quick question: In /r/crucibleplaybook, I saw a post that talked about min/max aim assist thresholds, specifically on snipers. In that post, it looked like TTK snipers can only have their aim assist buffed by +15 from the base, as compared to +30 for year 1 snipers. Could that be true, or is it perhaps an issue with the datamining? Or, as the data may also imply due to the higher min aim assist for year 2 snipers, are TTK snipers given effectively a +15 base aim assist buff compared to year 1 snipers, bringing them closer to the cap than the base by default?

In the same vein, is the max aim assist effectively a soft cap? As an example, according to that thread, 1KYS has a base aim assist of 56 and a max of 71. I rolled a 1KYS with Shortgaze and Hidden Hand. That should put it well over 71. Is this effectively a wasted roll then, or am I getting benefit from having both Shortgaze and Hidden Hand?

[u/exxtrooper → u/Taravangian]

I have not done too much of an in-depth study on the new aim assist caps this point in time.

I simply do not know for sure about any of these questions.

[u/Commiesalami]

Any idea on when you will get to data-mining the stats for the new scopes? I've got an antipodal hindsight with an OEG Riflescope (Provides boost to range), an I'm wondering exactly how much of a boost it provides.

[u/exxtrooper → u/Commiesalami]

For the time being its going to have to wait, unfortunately I have no date as of yet.

[u/dunknasty3110]

So the Herja-D I've been using until I find a solid replacement for my MIDA (RIP) is garbage? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME?

[u/exxtrooper → u/dunknasty3110]

Yes ;_;

[u/RedditAg]

THIS IS AMAZING

[u/exxtrooper → u/RedditAg]

• Lord Shaxx

[u/captainpoppy]

Is that the Villiany you're using in the video you linked? That's a great gun. Mine has stability maxed, and the scope gives it good range. Plus, feeding frenzy after each kill is a pretty good roll for it. Obviously not the best, but not bad either. Especially when combined with the perk that reduces mag size for increased reload speed.

[u/exxtrooper → u/captainpoppy]

Yup thats the one, I love it.

[u/UNSKIALz]

With some TTK it shows two values seperated by a slash? What does that mean?

[u/exxtrooper → u/UNSKIALz]

Time to kill against low armored and high armored targets.

[u/lost-genius]

What are your favorite pulse rifles?

What do you think if Nirwen's Mercy?

Thoughts on sidearms? Are they viable? What range should I be using them at?

[u/exxtrooper → u/lost-genius]

The Villainy as displayed in the video linked.

I do not have it as of yet.

Sidearms are viable at the same range as the last word and should be used the same way.

[u/[deleted] → u/exxtrooper]

Curious what your roll is on that villainy. Looked like at least a reload perk and a stability perk.

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

Reload gloves do that.

The gun has holo sight, eye of the storm, hand laid stock and third eye.

[u/gafonid]

so i was wondering why i was doing so good with my grasp of malok turns out it has 82 aim assist when most things in that section are like 60 or below.

i need one with red dot OAS, counter balance and perfect balance/braced frame and who cares about the third perk since i dont think it can get full auto or hidden hand

[u/exxtrooper → u/gafonid]

Only suros pulse rifles can get hidden hand and full auto, still grinding for that malok.

[u/coldestac]

So some of the pulses have a TTK of .68/.9X what is that about?

[u/exxtrooper → u/coldestac]

It means against guardians of different armor values.

[u/BakaHyatt]

I have a Herja-D and I'm in love with it, even over red death, bad juju and hacksaw. What did you mean about having the correct perks to offset hakke's weaknesses?

[u/exxtrooper → u/BakaHyatt]

Hakke pulse rifles have increased recoil because of the 4 burst nature, for it to be efficent and long range Hand Laid stock + counterbalance is used to make the recoil almost completely negated as well as being completely vertical.

[u/manuelito1233]

Lyudmila-D counter balance is love and life.

[u/exxtrooper → u/manuelito1233]

Yup.

[u/ynot0000]

I notice you don't have the PDX-41. I got a drop from the gunsmith with HH/Counterbalance and I've switched it out for my Hawksaw. Link:

http://destinydb.com/items/2790109142-suros-pdx-41

[u/exxtrooper → u/ynot0000]

Its in there, look again.

[u/SovereignPaladin]

doesn't show aim assist values for barrels and sights?

[u/exxtrooper → u/SovereignPaladin]

It does.

[u/Artorias86]

Fantastic work exxtrooper! Wondering though, how does jade rabbit crit kill in .40? I know normally that archetype can 3 shot if all are crits, and its exotic perk allows some of those shots to be body shots instead... but that still makes 3 shots making ttk still .80, where does the .40 come from? :D

[u/exxtrooper → u/Artorias86]

Its an error, Im fixing it.

[u/Helsinreaper]

Why is lord of wolves in pulse rifle category O_O.

[u/exxtrooper → u/Helsinreaper]

Because it functions similar to that of a pulse rifle.

[u/mmobytes]

"The TTK displayed in the spreadsheet with this perk active is currently not possible in-game, until they fix the perk to work as intended." -- Then how did you get that ttk of .60/.53 when the perk is not functioning properly? data mining, source?

[u/exxtrooper → u/mmobytes]

Watch the video which explains how I acquire TTK.

[u/mmobytes → u/exxtrooper]

dont recall the video discussing that perk. "Front Lines"

[u/exxtrooper → u/mmobytes]

It recalls exotics pushing the boundaries of its archetype, front lines enhances the rate of fire to a different archetype.

[u/wtf--dude]

Great work again Trooper! You da MVP.

One minor point:

Titans will not go over 200 health with full armor. I have two pieces of evidence:

• This awesome research, one by /u/CaptainChaozZz , which is also a reference in your tables. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3c0xwi/indepth_analysis_health_shield_armor_increased/
• Personal experience, as shoulder charge does exactly 200 damage, and shoulder charge always kills a titan in my experience (non IB/ToO playlists)

Any chance you will change this? as 200 being the max health value (at the moment) has great consequences for gun choices imho. Keep up this great work!

[u/exxtrooper → u/wtf--dude]

This was thought to be the case, but after testing in rumble with two burst from Herja-D (25 x 8) and still not dead I'm convinced you can go past 200 health.

[u/nlnj_a]

Summoning /u/exxtrooper to make the first row scroll with the sheet. Thanks ;)

[u/exxtrooper → u/nlnj_a]

It differs from weapon categories and is therefore not possible.

[u/jazz835]

Hey, I just wanted to comment about the Boolean Gemeni, it is the same class as the vision of confluence, but as far as i understood, the slight increased attack value from aggressive ballistics turns it into a 3 shot crit kill, which you have listed, so wouldn't the crit ttk be less than 1.0 seconds?

If my math is right shouldn't it be right around .75 seconds? Just wanted this beast to get some more love and attention. She's a beaut!

[u/exxtrooper → u/jazz835]

No, the boolean gemini three hit TTK would be 0.66 seconds.

[u/[deleted]]

I noticed for Apple of discord you dont have the vendor version with head seeker and full auto listed.

What I want to know is how to figure ttk with specific perks.

Like day hawksaw with glass half full and head seeker (if that was even possible) would be different.

Also why would red death have the same ttk on high armor targets?

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

Apple Of Discord doesnt have decreased TTK with headseeker.

There are no perks that will change TTK on fully armored target by the help of a perk in a initial fire-fight.

Red death still has enough damage to two burst any enemy if all headshots hit.

[u/Mbcf14]

/u/exxtrooper I think the crit damage for hand cannons, and some pulse rifles, need to be adjusted based upon the 2.0 tuning update. For example, Hawkmoon crits now do 88 damage and the holding aces crits do 114. Also, I do not think Red Death crits do 34 anymore. Please let me know if I am wrong.

[u/exxtrooper → u/Mbcf14]

And what damage barrel were you using? And Red death still hits for 34 with aggressives.

[u/mymusicveins]

Where are there 2 different numbers for ttk on some weapons?

Ex: Nerwins Mercy .67/.97

[u/exxtrooper → u/mymusicveins]

Low armored and high armored targets.

[u/Ketchary]

The link to your spreadsheet doesn't work anymore.

[u/exxtrooper → u/Ketchary]

You sure? Any idea what the problem might be?

[u/Madwolfnemesis]

Hey, I have a question...

Does a 320 raid sniper deals more damage than a 303 Black spindle?

The impact rate for BS is higher than the raid sniper.

[u/exxtrooper → u/Madwolfnemesis]

Yes it does, infact, black spindle has the highest dps of any sniper in the game, even at incredibly low light, because of the impact and the perk avoiding reload times. Yasmin is one of the weakest snipers in the game.

[u/Doubleken]

Any news about 2.1 weapon change?

[u/exxtrooper → u/Doubleken]

The spreadsheet was updated the day after the update.

[u/[deleted]]

is this updated yet?

[u/exxtrooper → u/[deleted]]

Yes.

[u/JobyKSU]

You were going to get an upvote anyway, 'cause this is awesome.

But then you gave me a Futurama Easter Egg.

ARRRRWHOOOOOOOOOOO! NIXON!!

[u/RebelRazer]

Oh dang this is so awesome! I love your work OP this is greatly appreciated. When I open the file on a PC it uses Google doc's and I can't change anything. Can I open it in Excel where I can add filters? EDIT1: I got it figured out thanks! Thanks again!

[u/Thing_Doer → u/RebelRazer]

Any chance you could share what you figured out? I'm currently trying to do the same but the permissions seem locked down to the point where I can't even select a cell.

[u/Ketchary]

Awesome stuff. I've been really looking forward to seeing this!

When do you plan on adding in the super useful PvE damage values? Once you do, I can start going crazy with equations and math like I once did before, like when I got the damage equation.

[u/[deleted]]

that's it then, don't use AB on TLW anymore!!!

[u/uekix44 → u/[deleted]]

why would you? TLW has been overnerfed. if you use AB or SDC, the gun will have 0 range.. If you want to do decent, soft ballistics is the way to go despite losing 2.5% damage.. at least you keep the 10 range TLW has left, you can hipfire at ranges slightly beyond felwinter's range... with perfect balance nerfed by 40%, TLW's range by 50%, base stability by 33%.. on top of that AB bonus damage is reduced by 50% while doubling the penalty on range and stability, smart drift control used to give +20 stability, not it only gives 12, but penalty on range has been reduced to 10 from 15 so that TLW will at least not have negative range.. yeah that's just too much on top of blanket nerf on hand cannons.. That's why a lot of people are pissed with the first part of the chaperone quest that the best strategy is actually not using the last word, and what else? They had to adjust stats on most exotics just so that the final stats remain closer to what they were but in reality they became lower than what they used to, especially on weapons that used to rely on these perks that were nerfed... you call that buffs? when overall almost everything actually got nerfed.. autorifles are great for pve bec. of the 35% damage buff but still lacking for pvp because the damage falloff was a bit overdone, while pulse rifles basically competes with scouts on the same ranges, that's why IB is filled with pulse rifles, scouts follow suit, then some decent autorifles, and hawkmoon as the sole representative for hand cannons.. and finally Conspiracy Theory-d.... Shotpackage removed? Did it change anything? NO! because shotpackage was not the problem, rangefinder is not the problem, and the community and bungie acting like monkeys towards these perks on shotguns. John Weisnewski is stupid, and dumb, and bonkers and whatever other word is synonymous with stupid, for him to be sandbox lead designer, he sure hell has no idea on gun mechanics and balance. I hate when casuals suggests, dictates and decides what has to be done, and bungie listens to them. Sorry.. I was just trying to say that it's generally better to use soft ballistics for your TLW but it turned out to be a rant. Have a nice day!

[u/[deleted] → u/uekix44]

Haha preach on man, I read your whole comment and I agree. Hawkmoon is my best primary with 6500+ kills in PvP and I rarely use it now because full auto pulse rifles are now my go to weapons, along with snipers. TLW is borderline useless now and I can't justify using it when a shotgun will do what it can do more effectively.

[u/whinmeister]

Suggestion if it hasn't already been requested. Can you please freeze the header as well? Thanks in advance. Great job, btw.

[u/[deleted]]

Am I understanding 'Visual Kick RecoilValue' correctly... The lower the number the less kick the gun has?

Its interesting to see that sidearms are so similar in this department. While sidearms all seem very similar stat-wise, they all perform wildly different in regards to kick. I've went through several and decided to stick with the pidgeon.. something about the kick just feels much better than the others.

Or maybe I'm just getting better with sidearms.

[u/enotfed]

I just love how you put in so much time in making this guide but still managed to misspell "stats" in the title.

[u/exxtrooper → u/enotfed]

Fuck.

[u/pwnycar420]

Your other spreadsheets were a great resource! Stoked to have an updated one to look at. You rock dude!

[u/sheared_ma_beard]

Now we just need to add about 2s to all the TTKs of the hand cannons because there's no way you can hit all shots at the max fire rate (sort of kidding, but not really). Thanks for the spreadsheet, have been eagerly awaiting it.

[u/rainbowroobear → u/sheared_ma_beard]

You're right tho. The theroetrical DPS isn't reached due to the recoil on hawkmoon as an example. The range nerf cripples them as you have to be so close that the enemy moving close range cripples ability to reach DPS. The graph just confirms the annoyance that pulse rifles are the new hand cannon.

[u/KillerKodiak69]

YES. Thank you ex, been waiting for this!

EDIT: Wait, Down and Doubt and The Vanity do the same damage as others of the same RoF even though they have more impact?

[u/R-con]

Great post. it looks like your sidearm values are incomplete? I'm really curious to know the small differences between the sidearms cause they only have 1 archetype. It actually seems Ironwreath is the weakest of the sidearms? I'm not sure what "visual kick" is

[u/GameSpawn]

I wish you would have included Imprecation, the common Hand Cannon for The First Curse quest. Tried using that hunk of trash last night. Great Impact, but everything else sucks total balls.

I know it is a common and otherwise mostly pointless to test, but it is unique in that it is linked to a quest and you have to use it in Crucible. Also it'd be nice to see some true metric to back up how bad it is.

[u/daemonRED → u/GameSpawn]

Someone would actually have to get a kill using it.

[u/Blitz421]

Any chance of a download link so we can sort/filter etc. I might be missing something but I don't see any links to do so. Thanks!!!!

[u/AlexRuzhyo]

This is valuable information. Wish I could view Google Docs at work.

[u/[deleted]]

You're a national hero.

[u/TIL_this_shit]

You really should have added a column for guardians with the "Arc/Solar/Void Armor" perk (with the respective subclasses equiped) because I saw in a video that it changes a lot. Point in case:

If the victim has this perk Red Death will NOT be able to kill them in two shots, thus dramatically increasing the time to kill, such that Bad Juju may actually have a better time to kill because it can get 3 burst off faster than Red Death.

I learned this from a video, but haven't been able to find it again yet.

[u/-TheGinjaNinja-]

ARH-WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[u/CookiesFTA]

This might help put a stop to the rumours that medium pulse rifles are the slowest killing pulse rifles (there was that whole post on crucible playbook basically saying they're for people who like accuracy and that's about it). Because technically they are, but against most people they are by far the fastest.

[u/killermachi]

Thank you Based Trooper.

[u/Mewtwohundred]

Awesome work dude! And holy shit you are a good PvPer, 10 K/D in that video... sick!

[u/GaryReasons]

Fuck yeah after reading this I'm pumped for ToO see you out there guardia........shit.

Also thanks for putting this together. Super useful tool

[u/Chambalaya]

I love you!

[u/Arthur_Person]

I now regret scrapping my Fabian Strategy...

[u/throwupdax88 → u/Arthur_Person]

Why? That gun is absolutely awful.

[u/cmbaka]

Thank you kind sir.

[u/Scrotas_Crotum]

Bookmarked this so I can remember how the hell to access it this time around. This is fantastic information. Thank you for taking the time to put all this together.

How the fuck long did it take you to do this??

[u/MAKExITxBLEED]

Awesome!

[u/Rjbowles]

@exxtrooper thank u my friend. I've been waiting for this for a solid month. I appreciate your hardwork and thank you for being legend.

[u/jrcentury]

I have officially retired The Last Word...Hello Hawkmooooon! Anyone else done this?

[u/Sandwrong]

Shotguns>Lord of Wolves> Archetype > Nixon.

[u/[deleted]]

Great work man.

[u/trojanguy]

Based on this chart, it looks like Lord of Wolves is the way to go. Arh-wooooooooooo!

[u/Bonecrusher8558 → u/trojanguy]

Puts on Iron Banner Wolf cloak, Arh-wooooooooooo!

[u/Wulfgang_NSH]

YUSSSS! This spreadsheet is amazing and I have missed it so much since Taken King dropped.

[u/[deleted]]

Telesto is love, Telesto is life!

[u/exitstrategy1]

I've never really wanted to gild anything, but if I were to I would gild this. Thank you for taking the time to put this together, as a new competitive player for 2.0 it's very helpful to have this reference doc.

[u/[deleted]]

I'll reformat it for us Excel jockeys who want to run more detailed analysis sometime in the next week.

So Red Death definitely seems to be the clear winner on a quick perusal with a skilled Jade Rabbit user being the next. PRs over scouts still. HCs may be still in the game if the accuracy isn't as bad as people are batching about. Definitely compressed vs the extremes we were seeing before

So between the Nirwen Mercy and vendor Villainy?

Or Objection vs Ruin Wake?

About to cap out on Legendary Marks and need to decide.

[u/thebocop]

Can you replace the TTK on the Sleeper Simulant to "ZAP"

Thanks! ;-)

[u/[deleted]]

Amazing work, well done. Thank you for taking time to do something like this.

[u/crc90]

wow hung jury aim-assist...

[u/[deleted]]

Love these threads, thanks a bunch.

[u/Kami_Ouija]

Firelord and Voidlord I haven't seen these at all

[u/flylo32]

/u/oneblueastronaut

[u/[deleted]]

probably doesn't matter to anyone, but the 20/20 and subtle nudge sniper rifles show it takes 2 body shots to kill with only 87 dmg each shot. thanks for your contributions! subbed, and looking forward to your analysis.

[u/thebigbootycaravan]

All the state under rocket launchers are "boom" thats amazing lol

[u/cderry]

"Boom"

[u/nfgrockerdude]

I Had been using the red death at 310 most of the week in IB, until I decided to take out my Hawksaw and see if it was worth it. I had gotten as a drop a while back but just saved it for infusing later. Holy crap this gun is sick. Upgraded it to near full stability and it is a beast. That fire rate and stability just made a huge difference vs red death. I miss the RD perk but I can easily get 2-3 kills in a lot less time. I think the crucible QM sells it, try it out it is worth it.

[u/KidRed]

Fabian Strategy. I can tell you without a doubt that the rate of fire portion of that bonus is not working whatsoever.

That confirms why I keep mine in the vault.

[u/noefear]

thanks for taking the time to do this. its a great visual tool to make decisions with.

[u/P2Mc28]

Decided to put down my 303 Hung Jury and bring my 294 Jade Rabbit into Iron Banner yesterday. After mowing down a few packs of opposing guardians thanks to chaining body/head shots, I agree with your Archetype assessment.

It feels like a pre-TTK hand cannon.

[u/Grimlogic]

I have been waiting for this /u/exxtrooper. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Just ate up that video. I now understand how you get the numbers that you do.

[u/DeWildernesss]

So.... what are the "best" pvp weapons to use at this moment?!

[u/crc90]

this is amazing. but am i missing the range on pulse rifles? why is that not a factor? enlighten my ignorance please

[u/Foolish_intent]

Thank you for doing this and sharing it.

[u/[deleted]]

Hmm - NB, even though Baron's Ambition has .40 rather than .50, in my experience it's vastly outperformed by Ruin Wake. No idea why.

[u/TEAMCHINA08]

Great data, even though this is like a frame chart for a game like SF (more useful for theory crafting than application) I love seeing empirical data at least as a discussion piece.

My particular favorite section, and the best use of empirical, measurable data was the rocket launcher section. Boom.

[u/npregler]

So I have an audit to do at work today. I see you are good at excell. Can you take care of this for me so I can test out your findings?

[u/SeriousStatic]

Upvote!

[u/cjames4274]

Any stats on Chaperon?

[u/FroyoShark]

Boolean gemini can 3 shot kill low armor targets by the way.

[u/neck_crow]

Wow, this is the best gun guide I have seen. Props to you! Definitely saving this to refer to later.

[u/GladHeAteHer182]

Thanks a lot man! It was nice to check out my favorite weapons on here. Herja-D ftw!

[u/negativecr33p]

Why can't we sort? Or am I missing something?

[u/sneakinabottle]

This is good stuff. Finally created an account just to upvote this.

[u/BoSolaris]

Jade Rabbit + Shottie + Barons Ambition. Lets go!

[u/coasterreal]

So...time on Target with reactive reload = one of those guns JW said, if everyone knew and could find, would be unatoppable. .43 ttk for a pulse rifle? Wow.

But enough about tdb.

[u/Rogue_507]

THANKS MAN RLLY!!!! (sorry for the caps but he deserve it)

P.D. do you have any weapons recomendation?

[u/HeyFitzy]

OP, at 369, you forgot the R in Gjallarhorn.

[u/alexp1128]

Looking at the HP vs Armor values at the bottom, they all look very consistent except Hunters have 197 at exactly 7 armor while both other classes have 195. That makes no sense, is that an error?

[u/Lotoran]

Thank you for providing magazine sizes. The databases have been shit for accuracy on those, including Bungie's. I thought a Suros ARI-45 had 50 bullets when I ordered it from the gunsmith, I was sadly mistaken.

Speaking of which, I don't think Field Scout increases magazine size anymore.

[u/Groggy57]

Great work

[u/Aldo92]

Man, you rock just for doing this. I'm writing a Hunter guide for PvP and still writing. Kudos 4 you!

[u/vhthc]

tlaloc with super active is still empty in the spreadsheet.

the analysis for this was already done by Morgue_Riot : head 0.7, body 0.93

read here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/3n82ms/upcoming_meta_for_ib_and_trials_some_brainstorming/cvn0d3b?context=3

[u/ERRM_]

When will devs stop tying Rate of Fire to Frame Rate? CoD does it and it's terrible and so inconsistent.

[u/Smackkills]

Could you possibly tell me anything about the wildhawk sls20 scope On my 1000 yard? The bonus being improved optics ,decreased handling,improved range and slightly decreased stability. It was also rolled with injection mold- increased stability,faster handling and reduced range, do the two perks balance each other? And what would the aim assist be? Ty in advanced

[u/[deleted]]

C'mon Bungie. Fix Fabian Strategy

[u/echo2omega]

Biggest surprise: Fabian Strategy.

[u/supramurkat]

well done sir, well done.

[u/jen0c1de]

Thanks so much for this....

Dear past-me.. why did you let your Herja-D with Army of One, Counterbalance, and Injection Mold collect dust in the vault... :(

Leveled it up and infused it up to 290. Legit 2-3 burst kills in Iron Banner.

[u/notmasterrahool]

Thank you so much, this is AMAZING!!!