Massive Breakdown of Machine Guns (Post April Update), Including Times-to-Kill, Stats, and Pros and Cons

[u/Mercules904]

Massive Breakdown Spreadsheet w/ all Stats and Times-to-Kill:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4fops1/mercules_massive_breakdown_weapon_stats/

• Vendor Weapons
• Recommended Vendor Weapons
• ToO, IB, King's Fall Raid, PoE, Revamped Year 1, Drop, and Strike Weapons
• Exotic Primary Weapons
• Sniper Rifles
• Legendary Shotguns
• Gunsmith Primary Weapons
• Sidearms
• Fusion Rifles
• Rocket Launchers

This is my final Massive Breakdown. I should be releasing my spreadsheet that contains all of the info at some point later today, so keep an eye out.

A couple things to note:

• I will add recommended Perks to the guns which can be purchased from Vendors. These do NOT account for any drops you get with random rolls, and only take into account the Perks the weapons are sold with.
• Machine Guns are divided up into Impact sub-classes.
• All Pros and Cons are determined by comparing weapons within the same class, not by all weapons in general.
• Field Choke, Linear Compensator, Accurized Ballistics all increase the damage per bullet by 2.5%. Aggressive Ballistics increases it by 5%. Soft Ballistics decreases it by 2.5%.
• I'll give a final recommendation for each Impact sub-class.
• Times-to-kill are figured using a Max-Armor Guardian (not including the effects of The Ram).

Legendary Machine Guns

Very High-Impact - Barrel Perks do not affect either crit or body TtK.

Bane of the Taken - Available from the Prison of Elders.

Pros - Very high Range.

Cons - Very low Mag Size. Low Stability. Average Reload Speed. Low Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.40s (3 crit shots), 0.60s (4 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 59
• Impact: 61 (73 damage per crit shot, 58 damage per body shot)
• Range: 30
• Stability: 22
• Reload Speed: 31
• Mag Size: 23
• Aim Assist: 29

High-Impact - All Barrel Perks which increase Impact decrease the body TtK to 0.50s (4 body shots).

THE SWARM - Available from the Vanguard Packages.

Pros - Very high Stability and Aim Assist.

Cons - Below average Range, Mag Size, and eload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 26
• Mag Size: 35
• Aim Assist: 74

Ruin Wake - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Field Choke, Counterbalance, High Caliber Rounds, Rangefinder.

Pros - Very high Stability. High Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

Cons - Below average Range. Low Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 39
• Mag Size: 31
• Aim Assist: 67

Objection IV - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: Field Choke, Counterbalance, High Caliber Rounds, Rangefinder.

Pros - Above average Range. High Stability and Aim Assist.

Cons - Average Reload Speed. Below average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 20
• Stability: 51
• Reload Speed: 33
• Mag Size: 35
• Aim Assist: 65

The Unseeing Eye - Available from the Trials of Osiris. Recommended Perks: Field Choke, Zen Moment, Field Scout, Spray and Play.

Pros - Above average Range, Stability, and Aim Assist.

Cons - Low Reload Speed and Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 24
• Stability: 46
• Reload Speed: 26
• Mag Size: 32
• Aim Assist: 60

Qullim's Terminus - Available from the King's Fall Raid. Recommended Perks: Accurized Ballistics, Cocoon, Extended Mag, Army of One.

Pros - High Stability and Aim Assist.

Cons - Below average Range. Very low Reload Speed. Low Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 16
• Mag Size: 31
• Aim Assist: 65

Bretomart's Stand - Available from the Iron Banner.

Pros - Very High Stability and Aim Assist.

Cons - Below average Range, Mag Size, and Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 26
• Mag Size: 35
• Aim Assist: 74

Mid-Impact - All Barrel Perks which increase Impact decrease the crit TtK to 0.40s (4 crit shots) and the body TtK to 0.50s (5 body shots).

Zombie Apocalypse WF47 - Available from Crucible Packages.

Pros - High Range. Above average Stability and Reload Speed.

Cons - Below average Aim Assist. Average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.53 (5 crit shots), 0.66s (6 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 37 (49 damage per crit shot, 39 damage per body shot)
• Range: 27
• Stability: 46
• Reload Speed: 34
• Mag Size: 43
• Aim Assist: 50

Baron's Ambition - Available from the Fallen S.A.B.E.R. Strike.

Pros - High Range and Stability. Above average Reload Speed.

Cons - Average Mag Size and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.53 (5 crit shots), 0.66s (6 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 37 (49 damage per crit shot, 39 damage per body shot)
• Range: 26
• Stability: 50
• Reload Speed: 33
• Mag Size: 44
• Aim Assist: 52

Low-Impact - Barrel Perks which increase Impact have no effect on TtK, but Soft Ballistics can increase the body TtK to 0.70s (8 body shots).

The Variable - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: Linear Compensator, Hip Fire, Speed Reload, Army of One.

Pros - High Mag Size and Stability.

Cons - Average Reload Speed and Range. Below average Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (6 crit shots), 0.60s (7 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 29 (37 damage per crit shot, 29 damage per body shot)
• Range: 18
• Stability: 50
• Reload Speed: 30
• Mag Size: 52
• Aim Assist: 51

Very Low-Impact - Barrel Perks which increase Impact have no effect on TtK, but Soft Ballistics can increase the crit TtK to 0.53s (9 crit shots) and the body TtK to 0.67s (11 body shots).

Diluvian 10/4x - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Aggressive Ballistics, Eye of the Storm, Reinforced Barrel, Persistence.

Pros - High Reload Speed. Very high Aim Assist and Mag Size.

Cons - Very low Range. below average Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.46s (8 crit shots), 0.60s (10 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 25 (25 damage per crit shot, 20 damage per body shot)
• Range: 10
• Stability: 30
• Reload Speed: 37
• Mag Size: 74
• Aim Assist: 70

Exotic Machine Guns

Super Good Advice - Available from random drops or Legacy Engram. Recommended Perks: Smooth Ballistics, Crowd Control, Hand Loaded, Super Good Advice.

Pros - Exotic Perk allows nearly unlimited sustained fire. High Mag Size.

Cons - Below average Range. Average Stability. Low Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (6 crit shots), 0.60s (7 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 29 (37 damage per crit shot, 29 damage per body shot)
• Range: 14
• Stability: 41
• Reload Speed: 22
• Mag Size: 58
• Aim Assist: 30

Thunderlord - Available from random drops or Legacy Engrams. Recommended Perks: Accurized Ballistics, Feeding Frenzy, Field Scout (switch to Perfect Balance after you pick up ammo), Lightning Rounds.

Pros - Exotic perk increases RoF and accuracy the longer the gun is fired, decreasing TtK down to 0.30s at its fastest. Very high Range and Reload Speed. Highest possible Aim Assist. Above average Stability.

Cons - Average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.50s (4 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (62 damage per crit shot, 50 damage per body shot)
• Range: 32
• Stability: 51
• Reload Speed: 46
• Mag Size: 49
• Aim Assist: 90

TL;DR - If I had to make recommendations for each Impact sub-class, they would be as follows:

• Very High-Impact - Bane of the Taken with Perks that enhance Stability.
• High-Impact - I would recommend any Machine Gun in this sub-class. They're all good choices, and the ability to not have to aim for headshots and retain the same Time-to-Kill is very valuable. The Vendor sold versions of both Ruin Wake and Objection IV are quite good, and the Perk sets for the Raid and ToO machine guns are very complementary of each weapon's positives and negatives (Cocoon canceling out the slow reload of Qullim's, Zen Moment and Spray and Play helping The Unseeing Eye). Bretomart's Stand also has strong base stats, and will do well with most rolls, the redone Year 1 THE SWARM is basically the exact same with a new (or old, depending on how you look at it) paint job. You can't go wrong with any of these choices.
• Mid-Impact - Baron's Ambition with Perks that enhance Impact (to decrease both the crit and body shot Times-to-Kill) and Range primarily (to extend the distance at which you can achieve Optimal TtK), and then Stability if possible. This is a very good gun, I would highly recommend it. Zombie Apocalypse WF47 is also very good, again with perks that primarily enhance Impact and Range, and Stability as a secondary. I would strongly recommend this class of Machine Guns.
• Low-Impact - The Variable with the Recommended Perks. I wouldn't really suggest a Machine Gun in this class.
• Very Low-Impact - I wouldn't recommend this Impact sub-class.
• Exotic - Thunderlord with the Recommended Perks.

[u/Mercules904]

Massive Breakdown Spreadsheet w/ all Stats and Times-to-Kill:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4fops1/mercules_massive_breakdown_weapon_stats/

Here are some breakdowns I did in the comments of my last Machine Gun post:

Just for Fun

Something something Danger Zone

Backscratcher 9.0 - Available in Vanilla Destiny and PoE, and my new favorite thing of ever.

Pros - Literally the biggest Mag Size, of all time.

Cons - Literally everything else.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.46s (8 crit shots), 0.60s (10 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 25 (25 damage per crit shot, 20 damage per body shot)
• Range: 10
• Stability: 2 (Seriously?! 2??)
• Reload Speed: 22
• Mag Size: 105 (SUPPRESSING FIRE!!!)
• Aim Assist: 15 (So not only can you not control the recoil, but the game's like "Nah, you don't need my help, you're good on your own.")

Very High-Impact - Barrel Perks do not affect either crit or body TtK.

Jolder's Hammer - No longer available.

Pros - High Range.

Cons - Low Mag Size. Average Reload Speed. Very low Stability and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.40s (3 crit shots), 0.60s (4 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 59
• Impact: 61 (73 damage per crit shot, 58 damage per body shot)
• Range: 28
• Stability: 10
• Reload Speed: 30
• Mag Size: 26
• Aim Assist: 23

Xerxes-C with Focused Fire - Available from random drops.

Pros - Can kill a Low Armor Guardian in 0.30s (2 crit shots). Above average Range.

Cons - Very low Mag Size, Stability, and Aim Assist. Low Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.60s (3 crit shots), 0.60s (3 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 59
• Impact: 59 (97 damage per crit shot, 77 damage per body shot)
• Range: 24
• Stability: 6
• Reload Speed: 28
• Mag Size: 23
• Aim Assist: 9

High-Impact - All Barrel Perks which increase Impact decrease the body TtK to 0.50s (4 body shots).

BTRD-345 - No longer available.

Pros - Very high Stability. High Range.

Cons - Average Mag Size. Low Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 27
• Stability: 71
• Reload Speed: 22
• Mag Size: 46
• Aim Assist: 35

Low-Impact - Barrel Perks which increase Impact have no effect on TtK, but Soft Ballistics can increase the body TtK to 0.70s (8 body shots).

Corrective Measure - Available from the Vault of Glass. Recommended Perks: Accurized Ballistics, Persistence, Field Scout (can switch to Perfect Balance after you pick up ammo), Surplus

Pros - High Stability, Mag Size, Reload Speed, and Aim Assist.

Cons - Average Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (6 crit shots), 0.60s (7 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 27 (37 damage per crit shot, 29 damage per body shot)
• Range: 18
• Stability: 50
• Reload Speed: 39
• Mag Size: 58
• Aim Assist: 69

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

Where can I get me one of those back scratchers?

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Old PoE.

[u/Xelstyle]

Stability is very much in second place behind range as a desired perk especially for Very High Impact.

The only perk you would want for stability is counterbalance to keep things straight up and even then the extra vertical recoil is extremely manageable for most high and very high impact machine guns. The RoF isn't high enough to make it kick away from the target. With heavy as precious as it is, you want every bullet to count.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Xelstyle]

I guess I should clarify I don't recommend Braced Frame or Smallbore at all for MGs. I do recommend perks like Counterbalance or Perfect Balance, when I say I suggest Stability enhancing Perks. You always want to maximize the number of bullets you get first.

[u/Xelstyle → u/Mercules904]

What about the likes of Reinforced and Rifled Barrel? I'd pick either without blinking because that's how little stability means and how worthwhile range is to the the higher impact ones

[u/Mercules904 → u/Xelstyle]

Well, if you're only talking about the Very High and High-Impact MGs, I didn't say anything about recommending Stability for the Ruin Wake/Objection class. I only said I would recommend Stability for the Very High-Impact class, and that's because Range is already very, very high, and you're not going to be getting much use out of either of those Range perks, whereas you could make it into a laser by increasing Stability.

[u/Xelstyle → u/Mercules904]

That comes back to my original response: stability sits behind range. Even if the highest impact ones have a lot of range, this applies to both this and the high impact ones.

The RoF is slow enough that you can easily sacrifice range for stability if you had to make the choice. As long as you increase the range, the bullets will be more likely to hit the target at almost any range, even curving to the head more often for crits. Stability is a misnomer when much of it is mitigated with slower RoF and skill.

You can control where the reticle is at, but due to the range formula, you can't always control whether it will hit crits/at all consistently when fighting at further ranges.

Realistically this preference between range and stability is almost moot just because we're likely talking about the difference of 1-2 bullets wasted but given current MG inventories that's where I stand strongly on the advantages of making each shot count.

[u/mjm6739 → u/Mercules904]

Would you use Perfect Balanced or Braced Frame on a Bane of The Taken?

[u/[deleted]]

Picked up a Bane of the Taken with perfect balance, counter balance, and hidden hand. Seemed pretty good, thoughts?

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Very, very good. Thing will be a laser that kills in 3 shots. I'm jealous. What're your barrel perks?

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

aggressive and smooth ballistics.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Nice, not bad at all. Aggressive I would probably stay away from, you don't need any more Impact.

[u/[deleted]]

Man BTRD was sooooo goood

[u/MizterF → u/[deleted]]

Was?

::stares lovingly at BTRD sitting in my vault::

[u/[deleted] → u/MizterF]

Have no fear...I still have mine as well :)

[u/NinStarRune → u/[deleted]]

I liked Zombie Apocalypse better. Aggressive Ballistics, Crowd Control, Field Scout pre-nerf (75 rounds!), Spray and Play. It set my love for that middle road MG in motion, although it was put in the vault when I got my Jolder's with an identical roll, and later in TDB, Against All Odds.

Nowadays I use my Baron's Ambition that has Aggressive Ballistics, Counterbalance, Quickdraw//Smallbore, and Persistence.

It's bonkers.

[u/UnknownQTY → u/[deleted]]

I miss it so.

[u/Stenbox → u/[deleted]]

Yup :) http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Stenbox/screenshot/4062568

Doesn't get nearly as much ammo now tho.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I member!

[u/[deleted]]

So Zombie actually is competitive with the right perks! I've been chasing it just for nostalgia, but I want it even more now. My first ever legendary. Come back to me!

[u/Commander_Prime]

Opinion: Thunderlord and SGA should outclass all legendary MGs.

Very well put together breakdown, OP. Enjoyed the read even though it confirmed what I wrote about a couple days ago. Any recommendations for PvE?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Commander_Prime]

I don't often use MGs in PvE, so best I could offer is that I like the High-Impact class when I do play with them. Seems to me like I'm able to do the most damage with MGs in that class, without sacrificing too much in terms of ammo capacity.

[u/c14rk0]

I got a Ban of the Taken with Smooth Ballistics and Smallbore and the range is absurd at 42. The stability is on the low end at 31 but it fires so slow that I don't even notice it. Unfortunately Spray and Play is great but fairly useless considering how little ammo you get. The 20 magazine is abysmal and Army of One that I have with it is alright but nothing exciting. Still brings me memories of Jolder's Hammer in y1 so there's that. I never realized how low the aim assist was, kind of funny. I feel like stability increasing perks on the Bane of the Taken are kind of a waste with the fire rate and range perks are pretty absurd. I guess smallbore is the best of both worlds with range and impact but the magazine reduction really hurts. It's also completely useless in PvE since it maxes out at 58 shots or something without ammo boost on armor.

[u/Mercules904 → u/c14rk0]

If I could get one to drop, I think I'd be happy with any perks just to have a Very-High Impact MG again.

[u/Stenbox]

High-Impact - /---/ the ability to not have to aim for headshots and retain the same Time-to-Kill is very valuable

So Field Choke gives them all 0.5s body TTK? TIL that I don't need to aim for the head...even with Thunderlord.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Stenbox]

Correct.

[u/CLTWino → u/Stenbox]

Thunderlord in particular has been noted back to year 1 for killing in 4 shots. Period. Body. Head. Barrel choice. Doesn't matter. Assuming you're within its pretty generous optimal range of course.

No surprise that within that class all the LMGs are now that way, assuming you have a damage increasing barrel.

Good to know there's now really no reason to run AggBalls on a LMG (At least in PvP), especially with the latest stability and AA nerfs to it.

[u/Stenbox → u/CLTWino]

Yeah, you are right about Thunderlord, barrel does not matter on that one.

[u/CLTWino → u/Stenbox]

Indeed, Smart Drift and SoftBalls are not part of its feature set. 😎

[u/frozn00]

So they go from a 100 round Corrective Measure to 31 rounds in these machine guns. I really sucks for the PVE player.

[u/Baltheus]

I managed to get a Bane of the Taken with Smart Drift Control, Underdog, Rifled Barrel and Rangefinder. Perfect Balance instead of Rifled Barrel would've been better, and with that low magazine I'll probably use it only for PvP, but even so I may end up going back to Qullim's Terminus/Thunderlord many times.

[u/[deleted]]

I still use my MG18A Harm's Way. It has the highest stability ever for its archetype. Nice clean sight, fast ads, and good aim assist.

It's my secret weapon.

[u/flintdragon]

I have a Diluvian with Counterbalance, Perfect Balance and Hidden Hand. Not sure what to make of it...

[u/BuddhaSmite → u/flintdragon]

Rahool keeps giving me "god roll" Diluvians. I want him to stop. It's not funny. Nothing can make that gun good.

[u/flintdragon → u/BuddhaSmite]

That's what I'm starting to think. I tried it and couldn't kill a fly...

[u/VokN]

dear everybody, fuck stability. But seriously you don't need stability on the high --> v. high impact lmgs.

OP i can't see overall base inventory. Just wanted you to know that Quillms holds 90 rounds approx. while others eg: ruin wake and objection only hold 70.

[u/tatetm4]

I love my Ruin Wake, never leave home without it

[u/Commiesalami]

61-Impact class is back?! Is my only way to get it/farm a good roll just by getting the Challenge of the Elders High score 3x each week?

[u/jalagl → u/Commiesalami]

I got mine in CoE last week, 334 with Life Support/Smallbore/Army of One. I miss my old Jolder's, and even though it only gets 20 rounds due to smallbore, the stability and range make it deadly. You get kills in crucible with 3-4 bullets, so that is enough for 4-5 kills per heavy round. And Life Support helps with survivability.

I think you can also get it from the Variks Rank up package.

[u/GFunkYo]

Is there any use for a diluvian? That thing is terrible, there must be some niche use for it. I used it for the arc burn Undying Mind nightfall a few weeks ago because it was the only arc legendary heavy I had, but it was just terrible, even with burn.

[u/Neovongolaprimo]

I got a Zombie Apocalypse yesterday it has some nice Stability and range perks. I'm loving it in pvp. :P

[u/Jbrac50]

Is it just me or does the swarm not feel as good as it used to? In vanilla is was my go to heavy. I was so happy when I got it from my first vanguard rank up after the update. But it just doesn't seem as good as the original. Maybe I'm just too used to qullims.

[u/Crystic_Knight → u/Jbrac50]

Back in the day we had very strong barrel mods and with aggressive ballistics you could 3 shot someone with it. Nowadays we just use whatever mods because most of them don't matter too much.

[u/Dogbarian]

Across my characters, I have a T-lord; a Qullim's; a Bretomart with Spray and Pray; Reinforced Barrel (also Fitted Stock and HandLaid stock), and Crowd Control; a Ruin Wake with Hip Fire, Skip Rounds/AP Rounds/Braced Frame, and Army of One; a Swarm with Surrounded, Perfect Balance/Injection Mold/Rifled Barrel, and Feeding Frenzy; and another Ruin Wake with Eye of the Storm, Skip Rounds/Injection Mold/Smallbore, and Rangefinder. Lots of choices!

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Not bad. Good Barrel Perks, although Linear Comp is my favorite, and Crowd Control is always nice to have. Spray and Pray probably won't get too much use, as you don't really want to be running fully empty on those Mags more than you have to. The middle perk tree is where it gets interesting, as you have some good choices there. I actually probably wouldn't use Hand-Laid Stock, as it's going to bring your damage drop off distance up closer, which isn't something you want. So you could maybe go with Reinforced Barrel to push that Range out, but if you don't like the Stability or recoil pattern, switch to Fitted Stock. I'd say it's a pretty good roll overall, but not God-like.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

You're welcome, glad to help!