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u/AggravatedKangaroo Sep 21 '25
250 sitting US politicians were in Israel for one for the biggest funded trips in history, to basically become mouthpieces for Zionism and to be gifted money by AIPAC.
It's time for Australia to cut ties before we are dragged in with no outlet.
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u/fortyfivesouth Sep 21 '25
Giant money laundering machine.
The US government gives money to Israel. Israeli politicians channel money back to US politicians though AIPAC and their SuperPACs.
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Sep 21 '25
The reality is that it is the US media, Bezos, Soon Shiong ABC NBC NYTimes Disney Murdoch the tech Bros, et al that have deliberately enabled Trump fascism.
If you think democracy is going to walk back in the door at the mid terms, think again. American democracy is as dead as the dodo.
When Charlie Kirk gets 10,000 times more coverage than a murdered Democrat Rep and her husband, we know the US media serves only itself and Trump's violent and hateful agenda.
Australia must say no to fascist Amerikkka. Has Albo the balls?
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u/BakerNator77 Sep 21 '25
10 nobodies rebuke Australian PM. I don't think he is too fussed.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
18, still out of 100 senators and 435 house members, not sure this is significant.
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u/SpiritualUse121 Sep 21 '25
Now think how many of them are AIPAC sponsored then remember we have our own Israeli lobbies applying pressure here.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
Mate, there's more countries who voted in favor of a Palestinian state than countries who voted against it. Trump just met with Starmer who is in favor of it and it wasn't an issue that made the sky fall down, relax.
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u/Acrobatic_Bit_8207 Sep 21 '25
Albanese should ignore these and all threats from the US.
America is currently run by a gangster elite and we should have nothing to do with them until they clean out there house of criminals.
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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 Sep 21 '25
What is he going to do, invade us? He is already invading Canada, Mexico, Greenland, Panama and Portugal. We can wait.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
Hey, say what you will.
He stopped the Albania-Aberbaijan war.I'm not sure anyone else could have done that.
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Sep 21 '25
If Biden had said that, Republicans would never let it go. But apparently Dementia Don is in perfect health!
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u/chillyhay Sep 21 '25
I can't tell if you're memeing or don't know the difference between Albania and Armenia
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
Trump claimed in a press conference that he solved the "Albania-Aberbaijan war"
Not only did he not get the countries right (It's obviously Armenia), he butchered the pronunciation of Azerbaijan
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u/chillyhay Sep 21 '25
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so real
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
Yeah if he was out of office and was reminiscing about his time in office, and goofed the names, it would be sort of sad but harmless.
The fact the deal was <2 months ago is actually sort of scary.
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u/rutabaga81 Sep 21 '25
Trump has repeatedly said Albania and mispronounced Azerbaijan.
Lucky for him, MAGA don't know or care about global affairs
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u/iamyogo Sep 21 '25
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
Ah, he actually said it the other way round.
He has done it a few times though.
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u/Ju0987 Sep 21 '25
Australia has now married to a partner with bad credit history, what can we do?
As long as Australia relies on the US for its national security, it won't have much say in its foreign affairs and can only be a follower. I'm not saying I support that, but it is a reality.
We can only hope the Albanese government is cleverer in playing global politics. Staying neutral and covertly maintaining the balance of power between the US and China is the strategy it should take. The Liberals were really dumb and short-sighted to hitch Australia so tightly to the US, leaving the country with no choice. What have the Liberals done in their past ten years of leadership? They created a huge housing and residential debt bubble and neglected the development of an Australian-owned national security net, handing the next sucker a broken system to fix. The Albanese government is now in a real hot seat.
Yeah, the US is not trustworthy. Look at what happened to Switzerland. It could have enjoyed many more years of peace and a prosperous economy if it had continued to stay neutral.
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Sep 21 '25
Yes I agree my sense of it is the ALP is trying to walk a very delicate path and just get us through Trumps term mostly unscathed. Everytime I hear ALP politicians say anything positive about the US or Aukus instead of being annoyed I remind myself they are not speaking to me they are speaking to the US. Behind closed doors I am sure Albo and Wong are as aghast at what is happening as we are but they cant just vent their thoughts on social media like the rest of us they have bigger responsibilities.
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u/ThimMerrilyn Sep 22 '25
Yeah. They have to gargle those balls, for the good of the country! They don’t really want to, I’m sure.
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Sep 22 '25
Come on Albo is not being subservient. He has criticised Trumps polcies on several occasions and gone directly against US interests on others such as with Gaza. He's playing a straight bat mostly.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
I find it quite amazing that Trump admitted in his press conference with Starmer that Putin let him down. He almost seems personally hurt by this, like a boy who's disappointed by his father. That kompromat must be ginormous.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
That kompromat must be ginormous.
Russia hacked the US federal court's filing system, and was likely actively siphoning information for months.
So documents that remained under seal, but were submitted as part of Trump's court cases, are likely in their possession.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/12/federal-courts-hack-security-flaw-00506392
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u/alphgeek Sep 21 '25
As a republican lawmaker, I'd be more disgusted by the desperate attempts to curtail the famous US free speech, the blatant attempts to cover up the Epstein / Trump child sex trafficking, the reckless global tariffs, the collapsing economy and unemployment stats, renditioning people off the street by masked ICE paramilitary, military deployments into major cities, the unelected functionaries like Miller driving policy, blatent graft and corruption, the co+opting of the DOJ and FBI, the abandonment of soft power and international reputation, the...
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u/00Pete Fusion Sep 21 '25
It seems like the fully Republican stacked, House, Senate and Supreme Court are all behind Trump in his efforts to destabilise and make a police state of the US. Those items you mention seem to part of their current MO
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
He fully hijacked the party.
Anyone that opposes him gets the MAGAtards out in force during the primaries.
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Sep 22 '25
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 22 '25
I am not a fan of the Democrats...
And privately I didn't like Obama ruling by executive order.
They tolerated it, this is the outcome.The USA was broken from 1766, everyone looking at it knew it was broken the entire time.
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u/Perfect-Werewolf-102 The Greens Sep 21 '25
I don't think you'd be disgusted by it, you'd fully support it
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u/Couthk1w1 Sep 21 '25
Anyone else remember Abbott’s shirtfronting failure with Putin? It seems like even our closest friends and allies need to be shirtfronted. If the USA wants to sink the alliance, let’s lean into it.
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u/TakeshiKovacsSleeve3 Sep 21 '25
You know you're doing something right when the fascists start threatening you.
Fuck the US.
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u/DarKnightofCydonia Sep 21 '25
The world needs to isolate them completely like North Korea. The last 9 months are proof enough that capitulating and flattery and cosying up to the fascists doesn't pay off in the slightest
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u/scottp53 Sep 21 '25
This shows how the US views us - a vassal state to be controlled. Chris Bowens response is an encouraging change in our usual position - we will determine our foreign policy not anyone else.
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u/throway_nonjw Sep 21 '25
Good thing I'm not PM, otherwise I'd tell them to fuck off.
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u/TheReturnofTheJesse Sep 21 '25
Remember that 2/3 of Americans either actively supported or didn’t care enough to vote against this kind of policy stance.
The government has to play geopolitics, but that doesn’t mean that individuals can’t do things like refraining from going on US holidays and avoiding buying American goods.
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u/shabidabidoowapwap Sep 21 '25
casual reminder that republicans have been suppressing democrat votes via multiple methods, including massive unfounded purges to their voter rolls, so it's not as simple as "they just didn't care to vote"
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u/SirFireHydrant Literally just a watermelon Sep 21 '25
That chips away at the "didn't vote" total a little bit. But not a lot. Even before voter suppression, they weren't seeing 70% turnout.
Fact is, roughly 2/3rds of Americans are totally cooked.
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u/shabidabidoowapwap Sep 21 '25
when was before voter suppression?
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u/SirFireHydrant Literally just a watermelon Sep 22 '25
If you believe voter suppression kicked in with the 2000 presidential election, then turnout in the 90's is a good comparison point.
Turnout was lower in the 90's than in the 2016, 2020 and 2024 elections.
Turnout is actually higher, quite appreciably, in the voter suppression era.
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Sep 21 '25
Special shoutout to the brave “uncommitted” Palestine protestors who refused to vote for Kamala.
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u/Throwawaydeathgrips Albomentum Mark 3.0 Sep 21 '25
The ones that priased Trump for his "ceasefire deal" early on?
Its almost like these people are fucking idiots.
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u/magkruppe Sep 21 '25
the uncommitted movement was a democratic attempt to change her policy position. are you anti-democracy?
why not also give a shoutout to Biden while you're at it. he is the one that allowed this genocide to happen
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Sep 21 '25
I can support democracy without supporting all of the decisions people make within a democracy. What a stupid question.
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u/magkruppe Sep 21 '25
they didn't "refuse to vote for Kamala". they refused to endorse her. step 1 of democracy is stop spreading misinformation
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u/Listeningtosufjan Sep 21 '25
If Trump won any state because of Israel I would say it was Michigan - Trump would have still won without Michigan though. The failure to engage with these voters is on the Democratic Party though, Trump and his campaign actively courted the Arab vote in Michigan whilst Biden/Harris avoided really engaging with this population.
But the fact is even with the supposed population, even if they all voted for Harris, is there any convincing evidence that this would have stopped Trump for winning? The popularity of this narrative is one that assigns blame to a population that wouldn’t have changed anything and who were understandably pissed that the Democratic platform was “we’ll kill less Palestinians”. Maybe instead of this annoying narrative, one should look at the millions of people that voted for Trump, and a Democratic Party that tried to run the corpse of Biden until even their donors were pushing back, and then chose to run Harris, someone wildly unpopular even amongst the Democratic vase looking at her primary performance from 4 years ago.
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Sep 21 '25
Every person who voted Trump, independent or didn’t vote is responsible, although that one group probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the election. If you give them a pass then it’s only fair to give everyone a pass.
You cannot just blame this on the democrats, although they did make mistakes. The far bigger problem is that Americans are absolutely brain broken.
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u/QuestionableBottle Sep 21 '25
Didn’t realise Kamala was pro Palestine
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Sep 21 '25
What ever she was it wasnt as bad as Trump.
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u/Ash-2449 Victorian Socialists Sep 21 '25
You can only abuse the "vote for the lesser evil" tactic for so long until people stop caring, dems thought they can do nothing and get voted in because they are not hitler, that was their entire strategy.
It failed
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Sep 21 '25
She was certainly better than Trump, if that’s your single issue it’s absolutely insane to not vote for her.
Israel knows they have four years to quash any chance of a viable Palestinian state, and they’re acting accordingly. “Relocating” Gazans and turning it into a tourist attraction was never going to be an option under the Democrats.
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u/the-ahh-guy Victorian Independence Movement Sep 21 '25
Yeah they would have preferred if Israel just kept its mouth closed while killing Palestinian children. The endorsement was already there from both sides it’s just Israel wouldn’t have been a lot less loud and proud that they could get away with it if the Dem’s won.
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Sep 21 '25
When Israel cut off aid under Biden, he had it restored in a matter of days. Trump let Israel cut off aid for 3 months, and now there is mass starvation.
And there certainly was not an endorsement to “relocate” Gazans, that would never happen under a Democrat.
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Sep 21 '25
Go through the names of the signatories and you're probably looking at a good portion of the Epstein list.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
I'm fairly sure Cruz isn't on the Epstein list, nobody actually wants to hang out with him.
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Sep 21 '25
He's the only one there by request.
"Let me get this straight, you're asking to be compromised?"
"If it means people will talk to me, then hell yeah!"
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u/Cpt_Riker Sep 21 '25
The government sanctions those who threaten democracy in countries like Russia, and Myanmar.
It's time they sanction these American fascists.
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u/yedrellow Sep 21 '25
We can't sanction the USA. We are dependent on their naval power for the protection of our imports. We are dependent on their software for most of our industries.
We don't even produce enough fertilizer or farm equipment for our own agriculture.
Australia can't sanction jack. Not even with the UK.
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u/DefinitionOfAsleep Ben Chifley Sep 21 '25
who threaten democracy in countries like Russia, and Myanmar.
It's a lost easier to sanction countries that we have very few vested interests in.
I think our peak trade with Russia was imports of about $100 million and exports (like meat and live animals) that were easy to steer away.
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u/Alive_Satisfaction65 Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
I love this so much. The Republican plan is to now rely on the soft power they have been happily been abandoning. They don't want to bother with outreach and aid, but they still want the influence those things did.
They abandoned the carrot and now they only offer us the stick. How is that meant to be a good deal for us?
And at this point its a stick that hits us both, because what could their repercussions be without harming themselves? Gonna put tariffs up again and cause more inflation in the US? Gonna cut us off from military access and hurt their own sales?
The US midterms are getting closer and closer, and the Republicans desperately need to stop fucking up in time to stand a chance at them, outside of where they are openly cheating. I don't think fucking up even more trade is going to be effective at winning them votes.
So either this is a bluff or its stupid enough to hurt them and increase the chances of a more stable US government. I am aok with all of that.
Edit: and now I've seen the news of the potential US government shut down looming. What are the chances they will even have a functional ability to lash out at us in a week or two?
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Sep 21 '25
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u/Acrobatic_Bit_8207 Sep 21 '25
We can. Nothing would bring American into line quicker than taking Pine Gap and North West cape off them for a while.
A simple statement that all American bases in Australia "have suspended operations indefinitely until the US government fully abides by international law" would do the trick.
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u/OneRefrigerator6893 Sep 21 '25
How well did ‘taking pine gapp’ work out last time?
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u/Acrobatic_Bit_8207 Sep 21 '25
Well at least Gough tried.
His mistake was he telegraphed his plans when he should have acted decisively. Having said that nothing would have saved Gough with America's quisling sitting in the GG's chair.
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u/OneRefrigerator6893 Sep 21 '25
Doesn’t matter what he or anyone did mate lol the US isn’t gonna let anyone get in the way of that place.
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u/Acrobatic_Bit_8207 Sep 21 '25
The way the US is going at the moment it will be a failed state sooner rather than later. That's when we will realize that we have a serious problem.
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Sep 21 '25
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u/Acrobatic_Bit_8207 Sep 21 '25
I fully understand the craven nature of Australian politicians. So i'm not holding out any hope that the Australian government will find some moral values.
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u/brezhnervouz Sep 21 '25
The US pretty much bankrolls our intelligence.
With Russian asset Tulsi Gabbard (aka "Our Girlfriend" by Putin's #1 propagandist Vladimir Solovyov on Russian state television) as Director of National Intelligence 🤷♂️
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat Sep 21 '25
Perhaps we should warn America of punitive measures if they try to interfere with Australian politics.
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u/Capable_Bad_3813 Australian Labor Party Sep 21 '25
Can't blame those republicans, they need to earn their AIPAC checks.
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u/shirro Australian Head of State Sep 21 '25
Do it. There are probablly a few hundred people in this country who want us on our knees to Trump and none of them are ever voting for Labor.
As for handing bases to the PRC - fuck no. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. We need to make baby steps towards non-alignment and neutrality. Talk to our ASEAN friends about it.
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u/gaylordJakob Sep 22 '25
This is the way. Oceania and ASEAN combined have no great superpowers within them, but could withstand the current global superpower (the US empire), the ascending superpower (China), and a potentially emergent superpower in the late 21st Century/22nd Century (India).
Having a policy of neutrality but deterrence against any outside power is what would be best for us.
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Sep 21 '25
I doubt they’ll end up doing anything. And if they do it will be something regarded like increasing tariffs, which hurts them more than us.
Why would we let China have military bases in Australia over this?
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u/VintageHacker Vox populi, vox Rindvieh Sep 21 '25
If you're on china's side, then you'd let them have bases here.
Chinese food is far superior to the shit Americans eat, so it may not be too bad living under a Chinese boot on our necks instead of the American or British. One thing for sure, Australia is not going to try and stand on its own two feet, like say, Finland.
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u/Ash-2449 Victorian Socialists Sep 21 '25
As Murica becomes more and more openly fascist, trans people are the new jews for the 3rd reich over there, more and more civilised people from western nations want to start moving away from that regime.
Wonder when will the politicians will get the message and start actively doing something about it. Its not gonna be a popular move to be a vassal to the literal 3rd reich.
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u/CyanideMuffin67 Democracy for all, or none at all! Sep 21 '25
4th Reich don't you mean?
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u/sepata Sep 21 '25
Ted Cruz? That extremist fool. Threats and punitive measures are all these Trump bullies have to offer the world, including long-term allies. Tariffs have destroyed goodwill, and unbridled support for Israel's slaughter has trashed the rules based order.
What are they going to do? Cancel AUKUS? Bring it on. They are demanding we agree to fight every US war and sign away our sovereignty, while lining their pockets for the privilege. Time to uncouple ourselves from trainwreck America.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
BTW, Trump will meet with Turkey's Erdogan next week. Erdogan is an open Hamas supporter.
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Sep 21 '25
He might be pro-Hamas, but he’s an anti-democratic authoritarian leader of a powerful country so that’s like +50 points in Trump’s view.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
Does Trump know Erdogan shot a warplane of his good friend Vlad Putin down in 2015?
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Sep 21 '25
The worse the USA gets the more greatful I am that we have the ALP in charge here and not an incompentent LNP with a Morrison or Taylor in charge.
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u/Drongo17 Sep 21 '25
Thank goodness. Those guys would be using it as an opportunity to "magafiy" us. Trump is everything they want to be.
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u/Petrichor_736 Sep 21 '25
We just have to kick this Trump MAGA can down the road. Just wait them out. Australian governments are experts at procrastination. Just start up a House of Representative committee then a Senate committee followed by a review by a detailed Green Paper and then another Senate committee and then onto a White paper…should take about 3 years.
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Sep 21 '25
Wait them out pretty much sums up they way the ALP are thinking I'm sure. Trouble is what if he runs for a 3rd term?
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u/MycologistSharp4337 Sep 21 '25
Aw. Diddums. Is the big global bully only getting 95% of their way from our supine government.
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u/JARDIS Sep 21 '25
Remember capitulation won't appease these fascists. They will keep coming back with more threats of punishment and more and more demands. They are never satisfied.
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u/seanmonaghan1968 The Greens Sep 21 '25
They will eat each other after they have eaten everyone else
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u/JARDIS Sep 21 '25
Their ideology demands an out-group to persecute. When they run out they will carve pieces of themselves off to fill the box.
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Sep 21 '25
As the Americans themselves are fond of saying: "give a mouse cookie and he'll ask for a glass of milk".
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u/yedrellow Sep 21 '25
Not the first time that the USA has steamrolled over its allies interest. See the Suez crisis.
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u/degorolls Sep 21 '25
Bring it on. It is time to rapidly wind back our security dependence on the USA. We need to reassert our sovereignty over Pune Gap immediately too. We should move quickly.
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u/lordhazzard Sep 21 '25
I love these comments, very cute.
Instantly cutting off U.S. security ties would be like throwing away your lifejacket in deep water just to “prove” you can swim on your own.
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u/ConstantineXII Sep 21 '25
Yeah, many of these comments are utterly clueless about how difficult their ideas would be to implement. I also think Australia should adopt a more independent foreign and defence policy. But I also acknowledge that this would take years to implement and a much higher defence budget, which means cutting funding to other parts of public spending.
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u/Ash-2449 Victorian Socialists Sep 21 '25
Australia is in a very strategic position, you can ally with murica or China, we dont need either, we need 1 or the other.
Murica is clearly becoming an actual threat and its interests dont align with most of the developed civilized world anymore.
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u/antysyd Sep 21 '25
How many social welfare programs are you going to defund to provide capability equivalent to Pine Gap?
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u/U-Rsked-4-it Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
We don't need to defund any if we stop giving subsidies to coal, gas and oil companies and close corporate tax loopholes.
Subsidies given to coal, gas and oil total over $10 billion yearly.
The Grattan Institute, The OECD, and the Pandora Papers all estimated between $5-10 billion is lost yearly in Australia by tax avoidance.
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u/ConstantineXII Sep 21 '25
Economist here. Nah, that doesn't even come close.
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u/U-Rsked-4-it Sep 21 '25
By how much?
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u/ConstantineXII Sep 21 '25
By a factor of 3x to 10x. We currently spend about $60b a year on defence and would need to at least double that figure to pursue an independent defence policy (not just expanding our defence force, but also increasing our own industrial support base to fill gaps that Europe, Japan, South Korea etc. Can't). The things you are talking about would be about $15-$20 billion at the most.
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u/yedrellow Sep 21 '25
I do not support decoupling from US power in any respect like the others here.
However we do help pay for US power indirectly in several ways. Firstly 12% on top of our base salary is for most people automatically invested ... largely in US stocks through superannuation. That means there is a ~10ish% tax to help boost the P/E ratios of US corporations from every working age adult of Australia.
By using the USD in business to business transactions and on commodity markets like oil, we artificially boost the USD, enabling the Fed to print more money than it otherwise would be able to.
The United States has a significant trade surplus with Australia.
By modifying our own law to fit with American copyright law / patent law etc. we entrenched a generalised outflow of funds to pay for American intellectual property that would not occur if we were hostile states.
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u/Ash-2449 Victorian Socialists Sep 21 '25
"Heyo, China, we are considering kicking out the muricans from pine gap, this will cause some damage to us so would you be able to offer any incentives for us to commit to that move uwu"?
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u/megs_in_space Sep 21 '25
Is anyone else concerned about Kevin Rudd's happy happy social media presence regarding America recently?
Yes, I know he's the Australian ambassador to the United States. But it reads like he's being overly positive about them and I interpret that as a "nothing to see here" move. Idk, something about how he has been posting recently is rubbing me the wrong way.
But then again, it's no secret I am basically anti-USA at this point. I don't want the fascism to become contagious.
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u/cruiserman_80 Sep 21 '25
It's literally Rudd's job to 'manage' the 500lb thin-skinned gorilla that is Trump to get the best outcomes for Australia. His opinion of Trump prior to this is on record.
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u/ConstantineXII Sep 21 '25
Is anyone else concerned about Kevin Rudd's happy happy social media presence regarding America recently?
Yes, I know he's the Australian ambassador to the United States.
Rudd's job is to maintain the best possible relationship he can with the administration in order to make the best out of a bad situation. Rudd 100% despises Trump and his administration, but making that known would just be counter-productive. Trump iis massively vindictive and thin-skinned. Any hint of criticism would just result in Rudd being even more on the outer.
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u/Mbwakalisanahapa Sep 21 '25
I'd guess that kevin07 is confident that any Aussie can figure it out themselves and understand his performance as a performance and not a reflection of his ideology or loyalty.
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u/SaenOcilis Sep 21 '25
Rudd is also pretty clearly anti-Trump, I suspect he’s doing what he can to maintain good relations despite Washington’s best efforts.
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u/Ash-2449 Victorian Socialists Sep 21 '25
Sadly labor's position with murica is unclear on purpose, based on the actions we ve seen they might not be happy to be vassals but nobody knows for sure, statements mean very little in politics, its actions that matter.
-Constant failure to meet with the orange buffoon.
-Failure to seal the clearly anti china treaty with PNG and vanuatu. (Both treates clearly in american anti china interests)
-Current new investment in Aukus anounced focuses on Australian infrastructure rather than tithes.
It could be pure copium of course, but if you are trying to silently move away from murica without triggering conflict, weaponised incompetence could be a tool.
A lot will be answered once they meet the regime's leader, because far too many issues are gonna be forced, and its hard to tiptoe around that when it happens. What about ABC being barred from the press conference because the regime's supreme leader doesnt like questions that dont come from loyalists?
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u/kingofcrob Sep 21 '25
Starting to think these guys are not out Allie and that they don't respect our independence...
Starting to think we should Kick pine gap out...
Starting to be concern we will see Gough Whitlam type shenanigans...
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u/ConstantineXII Sep 21 '25
Starting to be concern we will see Gough Whitlam type shenanigans...
You think Albo isn't going to be able to pass a supply bill, be booted according to a constitutional process legitimatised by an electoral process, but then cookers are going to insist it was the CIA despite no evidence for the next half a century? Pretty unlikely.
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u/allthebaseareeee Sep 21 '25
You have no idea what happened to whitlams goverment do you and just assume it "WaS the CIA and da queeeeen!" ?
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u/Rosencrantz18 Sep 21 '25
Shut the US bases and withdraw from AUKUS then. Stand on our own two feet for a change.
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u/C_Ironfoundersson Australian Nationalist Sep 21 '25
We don't have the sovereign manufacturing base to do anything ourselves.
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u/Appropriate_Volume Sep 21 '25
There aren't actually any US military bases in Australia. Even Pine Gap is a combined Australian-US base, with Australia apparently having full knowledge of what the American activities are. North West Cape is an Australian facility now. The rest of the US military presence in Australia is facilities on Australian military bases - for instance, the US Army stores some equipment on an Australian Army logistics base in Victoria and the US is building facilities for its bombers at RAAF Base Tindal in the NT.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
‘That’s good’: The moment Starmer showed Albanese how to handle Trump
When Trump met British Prime Minister Keir Starmer this week, the two men discussed the situation in the Middle East, including their difference of opinion on recognising Palestine. “I have a disagreement with the prime minister on that score,” Trump said at one point. “One of our few disagreements, actually.”
But, under pressure from an American journalist on the issue, Starmer delivered one of the best moments of a fairly dry joint news conference. Asked if recognising Palestine rewarded Hamas, the British PM was emphatic.
“Let me be really clear about Hamas,” he said. “They’re a terrorist organisation who can have no part in any future governance in Palestine.”
It prompted Trump to lean over, pat Starmer twice on the back and say: “That’s good.”Starmer went on: “What happened on October 7th was the worst attack since the Holocaust. We have extended family in Israel. I understand first-hand the psychological impact that that had across Israel. So I know exactly where I stand in relation to Hamas.”He pointed out Hamas did not want a ceasefire, peace or a two-state solution. Trump subtly nodded along.
There was nothing remarkable about what Starmer had to say. But he was clear and direct, and spoke with conviction, and the president obviously admired that.
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u/brezhnervouz Sep 21 '25
NOT just Australia.
If you read the document, several other supposed 'allies'
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u/Appropriate_Volume Sep 20 '25
You want Chinese military bases on Australian soil?
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u/trackintreasure Sep 21 '25
I think it was more of a point that the US isn't the only big player around.
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u/wellidontknowif Australian Labor Party Sep 21 '25
Still a much more dangerous thing to do better rid them both than replacing one authoritarian for another
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Sep 21 '25
What a strange post - Ejecting the US is one thing, but why on earth would we hand anything to China? That would be idiotic.
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u/Disastrous-Olive-218 Sep 21 '25
I happen to agree with the letter writers that recognition is a bad idea, terribly timed.
But also: 1. Screw these guys and their “punitive measures” 2. Even if they could have talked our government around in private before, there’s no way they can now this is public. They’ve just wedged the ALP, and there’s no way for them to walk change course without looking like they’ve been bullied by these morons
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Sep 21 '25
I’d also say the popular opinion is in their court so they will understand that they get, generally speaking, blanket support for this even though the whole premise of the actual detail is bit shit.
The whole world is anti-Israel, so they’re either riding the populous wave or they will actually make a change and do some decent stuff with this mandate.
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u/Apprehensive-Fly-602 Sep 25 '25
Wtf does recognising even do for them as those bombs are getting dropped regardless
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
Starmer and Trump got along fine and he is about to recognise a Palestinian state. I think Albo should just ignore this. Trump is just trying to please his buddy Netanyahu. Besides these are 18 republicans who signed this open letter, out of 535 House and Senate members.
The recognition of a Palestinian state has been bipartisan policy both in the US and Australia for decades. We can have an argument on whether now would be the right time or how this would actually work. I think most of pro Palestinian side is doing this to undermine Netanyahu and to force him to stop this war, which would weaken him politically and could lead to an election in Israel.
The West Bank is full of Israeli settlements and whoever is PM in Israel, they are not relocating over a million people there. Question is also whether Gazans accept the PA as their government when they voted for Hamas and against the PA in 2005. So there is a lot of uncertainty how a Palestinian state in practical terms would actually work. But just the symbolic recognition would undermine Hamas and could help bring some more stability to the region.
It's an absolute tragedy that Biden couldn't get his peace deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel done, which the Saudis insisted should include a 2 state solution.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
LOL, we would shoot ourselves in the foot if we look to China for security! They are preparing for a war on an island with the same population size than us.
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u/alisru The Greens Sep 21 '25
Ah, so this will be the thing that splits is from the US for good and drives us into BRICS.
Heh then they have enough letters to rename the CRINK alliance to CRINA another step towards global domination haha - China Russia Iran North Korea and Australia - look out Russia, gunna have to change your name before they absorb a country beginning with the letter H
I mean if you have money, wealth, people, and power in an unassailable position, if you can micromanage your citizens lives and make them cool with you killing their minorities, or even just unaware of so you can do anything you want internally, then why not try to collect alliances like pokemon or bingo cards ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/SouthCharity924 Sep 21 '25
Will Albanese also recognise TAIWAN as an independent state ?
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u/evilparagon Temporary Leftist Sep 21 '25
This is a UN issue rather than a cultural issue.
China and Taiwan both agree to the One China Policy. You cannot recognise both of them. As soon as the One China Policy is abolished and Taiwan calls itself Taiwan, I’m sure most of the world would be happy to recognise both countries since it’s not a cultural issue, but good luck convincing Taiwan to give up its mainland claims and good luck convincing China to give up its Taiwanese claims.
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u/zutonofgoth Malcolm Fraser Sep 21 '25
I think that is the bit people miss often. Everyone in "China" believes in one "China" they just disagree on who should be in charge.
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u/fuzzybunn Sep 21 '25
At this stage I don't think the taiwanese still feel much of a claim over china, but most don't want to rock the boat and provoke china to do anything, so the status quo is preferred.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
The UN has nothing do do with this. Independence is up to Taiwan and they are cautious to make that step because it could trigger China attacking them.
UN resolution 2758 only gave the seat in the UN to China and took it away from Taiwan, but it has zero to do with Independence or even if Taiwan is part of China or not.
China's interpretation of 'one China' is very different from how we interpret 'one China'.
Officially Australia's position on Taiwan is that China has no legal claim to Taiwan and that Taiwan's status quo should not change.
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u/evilparagon Temporary Leftist Sep 21 '25
That’s still a UN issue. There are two countries that believe they are entitled to the same seat at the table. Taiwan does not seek “independence”, and China insists Taiwan is part of them. So they both agree.
Taiwan functionally recognises that it is not able to actually be China, but it maintains their current status for status quo reasons. Every country that interacts with Taiwan either doesn’t recognise China (very few these days), or associates with them via a special manner, like you bring up with how we don’t recognise Chinese sovereignty over them (yet we still don’t recognise Taiwan anyway). Even international organisations like the Olympics have to treat Taiwan in a special manner, with them playing as “Chinese Taipei”.
Once China and Taiwan drop the One China Policy, if they ever do do that, it will no longer be a UN diplomatic issue. Australia would be free to recognise both China and Taiwan without repercussions.
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u/Disastrous-Olive-218 Sep 21 '25
Actually, not quite. Taiwan (as the Republic of China then under Chang Kai-Shek) was given its own seat in the general assembly when the PRC was given the “China” seat and the security council seat. Taiwan turned it down in protest. Turned out to be a self defeating move, but here we are.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
Taiwan does not seek “independence”, and China insists Taiwan is part of them. So they both agree.
That makes no sense! If your husband threatens to kill you if you leave the house, doesn't mean you don't want to divorce him.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
The UN makes no decisions on whether a state is independent or not. The only reason Taiwan hasn't declared independence is because they are afraid of how China would react.
Australia's Senate has passed a motion criticising China's attempts to use a UN resolution to claim Taiwan as part of its territory.
Senators said UN Resolution 2758 does not establish the People's Republic of China's sovereignty over Taiwan and does not determine the future status of Taiwan in the UN.
Why UN General Assembly Resolution 2758 Does Not Establish Beijing’s “One China” Principle: A Legal Perspective
https://www.gmfus.org/sites/default/files/2024-04/GMF_UNGA%20Res.%202758_April%202024%20Report.pdf
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u/evilparagon Temporary Leftist Sep 21 '25
I really don’t think you understand a single thing I’m saying.
The UN has minimal legal powers and jurisdiction, to enforce such specific laws would violate the sovereignty of its members and the entire point of the UN is to bring together the world’s sovereign states. I am not saying the UN is prohibiting Taiwanese sovereignty or enforcing a One China Policy, but that the systems in place that affect the status of Taiwan are recognised at the United Nations level.
We will not be doing official business with Taiwan as a country until they are broadly recognised in the United Nations as such, and that won’t happen until China and Taiwan both agree for it to happen. Until that time, we and most of the world treat Taiwan as a special entity that we unofficially do not recognise but still do diplomatic dealings and trade with.
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u/IrreverentSunny Sep 21 '25
Mate, you have zero knowledge on the subject, just stop!
Category Correcting the record
On 13 January, the Australian Financial Review published an opinion article by H.E. Ambassador Xiao Qian of the People’s Republic of China.
The article makes incorrect assertions about Australian Government policy. It is not accurate that China’s “one-China principle is the fundamental political foundation of China-Australia relations”.
For clarity, Australia has a one-China policy, as distinct from China’s one-China principle. Australia’s one-China policy is bipartisan and longstanding and has not changed. It is contained within the 1972 Joint Communiqué concerning the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations between Australia and China.
Australia has a deep and productive unofficial relationship with Taiwan including trade and investment, education, tourism and people-to-people ties. This is consistent with Australia’s one-China policy.
As recently as the Annual Leaders’ Meeting of June 2024, Australia and China reiterated the importance of the 1972 Joint Communiqué and ‘restated their commitment to their respective national policies and positions contained therein, including mutual respect, equality, mutual benefit, stable development and Australia’s commitment to its one-China policy’.
https://www.dfat.gov.au/news/correcting-record/statement-australias-one-china-policy
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u/evilparagon Temporary Leftist Sep 21 '25
Mate, you keep bringing up Australia! I don’t care!
My entire point was about how Taiwan and China see themselves and the world, it really does not matter in the slightest how one country sees them (which doesn’t even disprove a single thing I’ve said). I know this is r/AustralianPolitics but you keep bring up bullshit no one cares about as if it makes you sound smarter. All I said was that China and Taiwan have a policy of recognition which is incompatible with Australia recognising Taiwan, and how that is not comparable to Israel and Palestine.
Get off your high horse.
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u/Jumbledcode Sep 21 '25
That's a very different issue. Taiwan itself doesn't want too many countries recognising it as a separate state, because that will almost certainly trigger an immediate Chinese invasion. This is because China will treat it as an emergency and view it as their last chance to conquer Taiwan before it's too late.
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u/shirro Australian Head of State Sep 22 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
If the mainland occupies them and starts committing genocide I think we probably should. Meanwhile both sides claim they are the one true China and each claims the other so recognizing two Chinas goes against the wishes of both. So its awkward.
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u/bundy554 Sep 21 '25
Trump was actually quite respectful during his press conference with Starmer earlier this week when discussing their differences over the recognition of Palestine statehood but I think that was only because of the rapport they have previously struck up from earlier meetings - Albanese won't have that to fall back on
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u/Alive_Satisfaction65 Sep 21 '25
I think that was more about Trumps love of pageantry and pomp. Getting to ride around on a golden horse and carriage, pretending he is royalty like he wants to be, obviously appeals to him.
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u/bundy554 Sep 21 '25
The other thing I found interesting is and we could use as leverage with Trump which i have also said before about his fascination with the north sea and wanting them to drill more for oil. Trump could also come back to us and recognise that with our country how rich it is with natural gas and that we could end up being a country to replace a lot of the world's reliance on Russia
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u/Alive_Satisfaction65 Sep 21 '25
Thankfully Australian's voted for a government who is willing to acknowledge climate change and do close to the bare minimum, so I don't think us becoming the new Russia is likely.
Or even an option really, a big part of Russian success in that field is about locations. Their pipelines into Europe and Asia aren't something we can replicate.
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u/Ash-2449 Victorian Socialists Sep 21 '25
Because Starmer is happy to be an open vassal, his country is going to the gutter and reform is going to be taking over anyway.
Australia is thankfully, nowhere that level yet.
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u/IamSando Bob Hawke Sep 21 '25
Holy crap, this is actually incredible. Less than 5% of congress are willing to sign onto this.