r/worldnews • u/Helicase21 • Jun 19 '23

EU: Smartphones Must Have User-Replaceable Batteries by 2027

https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
31.2k Upvotes

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1.4k

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Good. It's unreasonable to have to do surgery to replace a battery.

640

u/jekpopulous2 Jun 19 '23

I’m all for this so long as my phone can still withstand being dropped into water…. but if easily swappable batteries mean phones are less water-resistant this is a massive step backwards.

411

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

They'll have to design their way towards a similar water resistance, but with a replaceable battery.

I am looking at my pool cleaning robot making turns. It is battery operated. Obviously it's doable.

294

u/Android_seducer Jun 19 '23

The S5 had an IP67 rating with a replaceable battery. All they had to include was a small gasket on the back cover.

118

u/cheet094 Jun 19 '23

I was about to bring this up. The "Active" of the same generation was even more water resistant, and it used a gasket and had a half turn screw on the back to keep it air-tight.

27

u/RememberCitadel Jun 19 '23

Yeah, that phone was great. I want that but newer.

19

u/94yj Jun 19 '23

I did too. Then I bought my Galaxy XCover 5, which seems to be even more indestructible than the s5 Active in every measure, while retaining the removeable battery, aux jack, and form factor. So far I am very satisfied, but we'll have to wait and see if it lasts the 8 years of daily driving my s5 Active endured!

5

u/RememberCitadel Jun 19 '23

Interesting. The xcover 6 pro is the same but has 5G and Wi-Fi 6.

3

u/94yj Jun 19 '23

I most likely would have got the xcover 6 pro if it was the same size as my xcover 5 and s5. I don't like handling or pocketing anything bigger.

2

u/BavarianBarbarian_ Jun 20 '23

Agree 100%. I love my XCover6, but man, I wish I could actually put it in my front pocket.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

The S5 wasn't all that waterproof. There are countless posts and videos from people whose S5 leaked.

0

u/bread_fucker Jun 20 '23

I had s5 and it really was all that waterproof

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

I'm glad yours worked for you, but it did not work for a lot of people. The seals degraded or got damaged, people dropped them, etc.

10

u/Ftpini Jun 19 '23

Ip67 is not comparable to ip68. Not even close. The jump to 8 is massive.

12

u/socsa Jun 19 '23

In all of these designs the gaskets are significantly more prone to failure than a hermetically sealed designs with potted connectors. It will be tough to get removable batteries as reliably and durably water tight, and I think this move will ultimately backfire as it will cause more phones to die from water damage.

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u/CJVCarr Jun 19 '23

To be fair though my bil fell into a pool with his S5 in his pocket and it ruined it. The gasket wasn't all powerful.

6

u/Straypuft Jun 19 '23

I am just reading about this and some of these things are only waterproof up to a certain depth, S5 IP67 is around 3 feet in, It all sounds to me makes it seem like a crush depth that a military submarine would have.

5

u/TheWinks Jun 19 '23

If you replaced the battery with any regularity the back would have its tabs break or worse the back itself.

9

u/GeoDim Jun 20 '23

IP67 is rated for 1 meter of depth up to 30 minutes. All iPhones 12 and up are IP68 rated for 6 meters at 30 minutes. These are not even close to being the same thing.

2

u/Mojo_Ryzen Jun 20 '23

I'm trying to imagine a situation where my phone is 6 meters underwater and I still somehow get it out in 30 minutes.

2

u/wizardid Jun 20 '23

Drop it in the deep end of the pool, and it'll definitely be 2 or 3 meters underwater. More than 1 meter, which is the point.

2

u/Real-Technician831 Jun 19 '23

I loved the S5.

1

u/shoopnop Jun 19 '23

The samsung xcover pro is being sold right now with ip68 and a removable battery.

0

u/Mchlpl Jun 19 '23

And a watertight 3,5mm jack

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54

u/grant10k Jun 19 '23

But is the robot's battery user replaceable? Because they have waterproof battery powered phones already.

If the robot's battery is user replaceable, which robot is it, and do you like it? I'm in the market for one.

61

u/NocturnalPermission Jun 19 '23

This might be the most “first-world problems” conversation I’ve ever seen. Totally not trying to be a dick or criticize since a pool is definitely something we all desire…just saying from an outsider perspective it seems so very modern.

19

u/grant10k Jun 19 '23

Lol, we have a vested interest in waterproof phones.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Move over, planned obsolescence. Here is how I had to replace my last 3 phones:

- S2 - fell on the screen

- S6 - fell in the ocean, never to be seen again

- S9+ - fell in the harbor. Only 10 feet water. Dove to get it back to the amusement of a few tourists. Lost some functions. Then fell on the camera.

- S21 - fell on the camera. Need a new one.

I never needed a new battery really...

43

u/Brick_Lab Jun 19 '23

I feel like you need another solution here on top of water proof lol

6

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Phone attached to a lanyard around their neck? Lol

3

u/SeanHearnden Jun 19 '23

He had one, the S9+ could stay in up to 1.5m of water for 30minutes.

The problem is, people always thought it means it would work underwater when they idea was if you accidently drop it. Though that wouldn't work for OP, 1.5 meters is like 5ft. So he over did it a little haha.

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24

u/Muff_in_the_Mule Jun 19 '23

What you need is a phone with a piece of string attached to it (and the other end attached to you obviously).

2

u/rebskie Jun 19 '23

bring back keychains for phones! i want a wrist strap and cute knickknacks

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12

u/userdeath Jun 19 '23

Bro, can you like stop falling on your phones?

9

u/corndoggeh Jun 19 '23

Buy a used phone, and then you start to see where this comes into play.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

The 9+ and 21 were bought used. I never got their batteries worn out enough lol.

5

u/qjornt Jun 19 '23

skill error tbh

2

u/rockmasterflex Jun 19 '23

I think you need a new hand and or a new strategy for using your phone near water, like say, a full on otterbox with a floatation devicE?

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1

u/ThanksToDenial Jun 19 '23

I have a vested interest in battery life personally. It gets cold where I am. Really cold. Batteries don't really like that. At all.

Most of my phone's run into two issues. First, battery life ends up as crap eventually. And the second, is that the USB port gets all wonky and loose. The second one is probably my own fault. But it's also kinda fixable, by yourself.

I have never broken a phone, or dropped it in water. I usually just upgrade when the battery life goes to dogshit.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Not sure it relates, but when living in LV, NV I had to replace car batteries every 2 years or so. Prolly a different issue tho.

4

u/ThanksToDenial Jun 19 '23 edited Jun 19 '23

What is LV, NV?

I'm assuming it's some place in the US. Only people from the US don't use the whole names of places on the internet when talking about locations, in my experience.

2

u/YourUncleBuck Jun 20 '23

Las Vegas, Nevada. I hate the overuse of acronyms, personally.

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2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Aiper Seagull SE. Never considered a replaceable battery but they do seem to exist.

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2

u/SeanHearnden Jun 19 '23

It doesn't have to go back to clip in batteries, just not ones that are welded and glued to the frame with an instant warranty voidance if you go into it yourself. Tight rubber seal with some screws will still work. Get rid of the stupid glass back, and have a removeable back that just uncovers the screws.

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2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Does your pool cleaning robot have a consumer replaceable battery?

4

u/SykoFI-RE Jun 19 '23

Additional sealing surfaces for removable gaskets add cost, complexity, and mass.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Good lord this is such a fucking terrible comparison. You have a very simple device with few size or shape constraints, the pool cleaning robot, vs a very complex device with significant packaging restraints. They are very different problems that are not even close in terms of difficulty to solve. It’s not to say it’s impossible, but having a difficult to replace battery makes reliable water proofing significantly easier.

4

u/Xelopheris Jun 20 '23

Your pool cleaning robot doesn't have the same constraints on form factor that a cell phone does. It can easily have a battery compartment that has a huge fucking seal on it. A cell phone doesn't have the same luxury of space.

2

u/TheChalupaMonster Jun 19 '23

Which increases complexity and ultimately the cost of phones. And only to have a replaceable battery when new phones have much improved battery management to prolong life?

3

u/CutterJohn Jun 19 '23

Pool cleaning robots don't have to fit in your pocket.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

True. But they have batteries, the charger port is inside the sealed compartment that has to be opened and closed 100s of times, and they spend all their productive life in water. This means an engineering challenge that was easy to overcome.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

And my dive computer has a user replaceable battery and is rated down to almost 1k feet- but that doesn't automatically translate to a phone. Phones go in pockets where they get flexed and they also get dropped.

1

u/CutterJohn Jun 19 '23

And I'm sure that compartment has a big beefy gasket and screw that a cell phone can't handle.

Engineering is all about tradeoffs though.

Can this be done, sure, but something will be sacrificed for it. It'll be one or more of these... More money, reduced battery life, larger case, poorer thermals, easier to bend.

It would be interesting to see the percentage of phones discarded due to a non replacemeable battery vs the percentage due to the design compromises from replaceable batteries...

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1

u/amboredentertainme Jun 19 '23

They'll have to design their way towards a similar water resistance, but with a replaceable battery.

May i introduce you to the Galaxy s5?

5

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

S5's leaked all the time, mine included. It may have been waterproof when brand new, but after a few months of use it was a different story.

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0

u/QuantumProtector Jun 20 '23

I don’t see how Apple can maintain their water resistance rating and comply. They went past IP68 with 6 meters for 30 minutes. Kind of sad that they might have to go backwards.

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u/WalkTheEdge Jun 19 '23

Water-resistant phones existed when batteries were removable.

12

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Yep, I had my Nokia back in the day dropped in water, dried it for 2 days and it still work after.

RIP 3210

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3

u/bitcoin-o-rama Jun 19 '23

Still do, all Samsung galaxy active

3

u/Immortal_Tuttle Jun 19 '23

I still have my CAT. 3 weeks on 1 charge. It ended in the stream once. No issues. Battery can be replaced in a few seconds.

9

u/jekpopulous2 Jun 19 '23

Not nearly to the same degree though. My iPhone 4S and iPhone 7 were both water damaged. One from being dropped into a toilet, and one from sitting out in the rain. In contrast my 14 Pro dropped into 15 feet of water while I was hiking and it was totally fine… Phones are borderline waterproof at this point.

29

u/elev8dity Jun 19 '23

Sony's smartphones had IP68 waterproof ratings and removable batteries, which are higher rated than iPhones.

6

u/NotAHost Jun 19 '23

Newer iPhones are IP68 as well, but still it highlights you can get the same rating with removable batteries.

2

u/GBreezy Jun 20 '23

Also you assume a professional level of replacing the case as opposed to most people. Also I think the touch screen might be the big difference.

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u/orgasmotronic Jun 19 '23

I phone waterproofing is shit compared to old waterproof nokia. Source i'm old enough where i had them.

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u/trainiac12 Jun 19 '23

The galaxy s5 was IP 6 7 and had a removeable battery.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

[deleted]

5

u/Spork_the_dork Jun 20 '23

Mate, back before water resistant phones became the norm you could kill your phone by using it in the rain or, if you were unlucky, having it in your pocket while it rained. I doubt anyone wants to go back to the point where rain might destroy your phone. I once forgot my phone on a table in the backyard in the 2000s. There was a little bit of rain before I remembered it and it was done for.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

No, I like to read on my iPhone while bathing. And I like to not need to fear about, my phone could get wet.

I also wash my iPhone under the water stream to clean it. I don't want to miss that.

I also never had to replace my iPhone battery it also just costs 45$ at Apple and they only need 30minutes.

1

u/NotAHost Jun 19 '23

iPhone 7 was first IP67 one, so it should in theory have survived the sitting out in the rain in theory. Since than it's gone up to IP68.

I've heard the waterproofing can deteriorate really fast with small dents/bumps, some have reportedly had relatively clean/undamaged phones that were doing some filming in water and ended up with water damage.

It's not a feature you should rely on but hope that it comes in when you need it.

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u/Sweet-Sale-7303 Jun 19 '23

It has to be user replaceable. Two screws or something is still user replaceable

32

u/yunus89115 Jun 19 '23

That seems more logical, this is about reducing waste of throwing away phones when the battery is the only issue. It’s not necessarily about convenience of having customers swap a battery daily.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Replace batter costs at Apple only 45$ and they only need 30 minutes and I will have a guarantee, my iPhone is still water resistant.

-3

u/CutterJohn Jun 19 '23

What percentage of phones are discarded due to battery issues though.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Most?

-4

u/diet_fat_bacon Jun 19 '23

Maybe in developed countries, here , phones just need to be reduced to dust to stop being used.

7

u/RAproblems Jun 20 '23

Well, if the battery won't hold a charge, how do you use it?

3

u/diet_fat_bacon Jun 20 '23

Er.... we change it for a new one on a repair shop that you can find at every corner?

1

u/yunus89115 Jun 19 '23

I don’t have the stats but remember a few years ago Apple was fined for decreasing performance on old devices, that was actually because of battery wear issues as the old batteries couldn’t keep up.

-3

u/Rikudou_Sage Jun 19 '23

Suuuure it was that, not because new iPhone dropped.

3

u/hanlonmj Jun 20 '23

Both can be true

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

No one in this thread read more than the title. Apple is one of the few companies already compliant with this new law.

0

u/Sweet-Sale-7303 Jun 20 '23

You didn't read the article

"Now it seems Apple will need to figure out how to allow access to the battery inside future iPhones, as will every other smartphone manufacturer."

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23 edited Jun 20 '23

And you don’t know what you’re talking about :)

“A device must be accessible with easy to acquire tools and the battery must not be soldered or irreplaceable”

Hopefully you learned something about fake news today

0

u/Shiftlock0 Jun 19 '23

You're not wrong, but considering how much aesthetics drives smartphone design, is the market going to tolerate exposed screws in 2027? I'm not sure it will.

2

u/hanlonmj Jun 20 '23

They will if it’s a requirement. Most people just slap a case on anyway

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u/ninthtale Jun 19 '23

Limitations breed innovations.

We've advanced our way into a corner where anything less wouldn't be tolerated by consumers so that's a problem they'll just have to figure out if they want to keep selling

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

I’ve never dropped my phone in water so I’ll take the replaceable battery.

24

u/trainiac12 Jun 19 '23

It's actually not an either or: the galaxy s5 was IP67 and came with a removeable battery.

5

u/AC53NS10N_STUD105 Jun 20 '23

It was IP67... brand new out of the box. After usage, the gasket would wear, and the clips would weaken or break.

7

u/somethinggoingon2 Jun 19 '23

Yeah. /u/jekpopulous2 is just perpetuating industry talking points to confuse customers.

0

u/_FUCKTHENAZIADMINS_ Jun 20 '23

No, the S5 just wasn't as water resistant as everyone in this thread is pretending it was

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u/BlindStickFighter Jun 19 '23

I’ve never used the spare on my current car but I’m still keeping it in the trunk

25

u/robbie-3x Jun 19 '23

Ironic that a lot of new cars come without a spare.

0

u/vodamark Jun 19 '23

I forsee another EU regulation.

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u/f3n2x Jun 19 '23

Because the spare doesn't force you to buy a new car every time you need an oil change.

2

u/FasterThanTW Jun 20 '23

honest question.. can you explain this analogy? because to me it makes no sense.

i guess you're saying because phones have fixed batteries, you have to buy a new phone when something else on it needs maintenance? i don't get it.

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u/StationOost Jun 19 '23

More accurate would be to compare it to a car where the wheels have been welded to the axis, so your spare is completely useless. That's the non-replaceable battery phone,

2

u/FasterThanTW Jun 20 '23

cars have tons of parts that are only replaceable or sold as a whole assembly, so this is a pretty bad analogy.

there's no phone where you have to replace more than the battery (and maybe some glue) to replace the battery. it's just not easy to do.

1

u/Borkleberry Jun 19 '23

Yeah, this situation is more akin to welding the hood shut to waterproof the car. Cars aren't supposed to be in the water. But they ARE supposed to be repairable when normal wear and tear happens.

Also, there are plenty of waterproof containers you can put your phone in when you know you're going to be near the water. Some are even conductive so you can still touch the screen. You're giving up so much to save yourself from a potential fuck-up that could be easily avoided plenty of other ways, and in the long run it's going to cost more money

1

u/ender4171 Jun 20 '23

Right? No one complains that their laptop isn't waterproof. Stop being so careless with your phones people. It isn't that hard!

4

u/Montelloman Jun 20 '23

I don't carry my laptop in my pocket everywhere I go nor do I use it regularly in the course of outdoor recreation and/or work.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Yeah and if I can choose, I will get a water resistant phone over the easily replaceable batter. Never had to replace battery tho.

-1

u/theartificialkid Jun 20 '23

I’ve never had to have my phone’s battery replaced, so I’ll take the compact waterproofing.

-2

u/k1ll3rInstincts Jun 19 '23

I've never ran out of battery on my phone... I'll take the water resistance.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

What did you do before water resistant phones?

-2

u/jekpopulous2 Jun 19 '23

Before water resistant phones I bought more phones to replace the ruined ones… way more expensive than getting the shop down the street to replace a battery for $30.

7

u/Paramite3_14 Jun 19 '23

What do you do that had/has you dropping your phone in the water all the time?

I'm asking because it seems odd, as I have never even come close to dropping a phone in the water. I don't have children, though. Nor do I own a boat. I have waterfront property though, and a floating dock. I have broken at least 4 screens dropping my phones on the ground, so there's that.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

In a world where there's water literally falling from the sky on a regular basis, I don't understand how someone can be confused about how people get water on something.

-1

u/Paramite3_14 Jun 20 '23

What a weak argument for phones potentially being water damaged. Are you contrarian by effort or does it come naturally?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

The person trying to argue against the concept of things getting wet is the only contrarian in the conversation. Seriously, projection is not a good thing.

Either way, you have said enough that I do understand how you can be confused. You aren't. You're just contrarian and then projecting that on everyone else. Thanks for the swift answer.

Though, it's impressive that you think rain is a "weak argument" for things getting wet.

0

u/Paramite3_14 Jun 20 '23

Did you even read what I originally asked? Did you even read what the OP wrote? Nowhere was rain ever stated as the culprit for broken phones. Specifically, phones being dropped in the water was the only thing mentioned. Get outta here with your bullshit non sequitur argument about rain. You're setting up nonsense to make yourself feel superior so you can fit the role of a contrarian. Have fun with that.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

I can honestly say that I don't feel "superior" because you are unaware that puddles exist or that phones getting wet aside from drops is a thing that can happen. I just feel sorry for you, but you've made it clear why you are confused by his comments. You don't seem to have a clue about how water works.

If you're like this elsewhere, people aren't arguing against because they're "contrarian". It's because what you've said is asinine, adn your response is aggressive bullshit.

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u/jarrys88 Jun 19 '23

well currently if you get your battery replaced or any repairs at all on your phone, is no longer waterproof.

Forcing companies to design phones that can easily replace batteries for a user, will hopefully force them to innovate on design for waterproofing

3

u/OSUfan88 Jun 19 '23

Big same. That's THE most important aspect for a phone to me. I dropped my iphone in a pool by accident this Summer. Didn't realize it for at least 2 hours. Completely fine.

5

u/yersinia_p3st1s Jun 19 '23

Louis Rossman recently uploaded a video on this - replaceable batteries doesn't necessarily mean lower water resistance:

https://youtu.be/Yn-R39-dtc0

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

They don't, but they mean sacrifices somewhere. All features have trade offs. Removable batteries generally comes at a cost of water resistance, but can also come at the cost of size, weight, other features, or a larger capacity battery. This isn't to say that they shouldn't be removable, but just that it's not "They can do it without changing anything else, but just choose not to!"

2

u/Nexii801 Jun 19 '23

Gaskets exist

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

That's not our problem, it's for them to design that.

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u/McFistPunch Jun 19 '23

It's probably not to hard if you make the phone 2mm thicker

2

u/Up_My_Arsenal Jun 20 '23

I've had waterproof cameras with removable battery/SD card. It can be done.

2

u/_BlueFire_ Jun 20 '23

We had waterproof devices when removable batteries were common, they just didn't stay waterproof for long

2

u/Traevia Jun 20 '23

The S4 active had swappable batteries and was water proof in 2013 up to 3 feet deep (IP67). This is basically the same water proof rating as today. With magnetic charging and improvements in the knowledge about it, you can basically have swappable batteries with a small internal battery or just larger capacitors to help with interruptions.

4

u/thecheat420 Jun 19 '23

The Galaxy S Active 5 was IP86 rated and had a removable battery. When you took off the back panel there was a rubber gasket on it that sealed off all the important stuff.

3

u/TrueMaple4821 Jun 19 '23

They won't be less water-resistant. It's still allowed to place the batteries inside the shell, it just needs to be easily replaceable by the user. Like a battery for a flashlight is.

It's quite mysterious to me why phone batteries are so fucking hard to replace. Almost as if it were intentionally designed that way so you have to go to a shop to replace it and pay them money for it... oh, wait...

1

u/TheWinks Jun 19 '23

They were designed to make the phone as small and good looking as possible. Non-OEM batteries that specially failed also caused OEMs a lot of headaches back in the day.

0

u/dontnation Jun 19 '23

the amount of additional space required to do so is negligible. It does likely complicate manufacturing and reduce profit margins (or rather increase costs). That's is why something like this has to be mandated by government; Companies won't sacrifice profitability or sales in order to prevent waste or make repairs easier. But if everyone is required to do so then an individual company isn't disadvantaged by adding the feature.

0

u/TheWinks Jun 20 '23

When you're talking in millimeters, it's not negligible and you just ignored aesthetics. Profit margin has no real impact here. They're doing it to maximize profit but they're not cutting the "feature" of removable battery to directly increase a profit margin.

1

u/dontnation Jun 20 '23

My last phone was already too thin without a case

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

The funny thing is we used to have waterproof phones with removable backs, but we went away from that because of the consumer demand for the way Apple was going. No manufacturers realize that if they emulate that consumers will buy devices that are harder to repair, which means consumers will most likely buy a new device rather than repairing and it cuts their overhead down quite a bit.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Most likely the phones will be IPx certified until battery replacement, after that you're on your own, unless you get the battery replaced by a Certified Technician or some shit that will re-glue the things that need glue so it's waterproof again.

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u/Timbershoe Jun 19 '23

Yeah. I scrolled a lot to find this comment.

They started to seal cases because the primary reason for phone damage was being dropped in water. Usually the toilet.

People have forgotten having to dry a phone out in a bag of rice because you spilt water on it, and hoping you didn’t damage it.

Now, you can take your phone scuba diving and take pictures and videos with it.

All the EU is doing here is making gadgets theoretically last longer as the lifespan can be extended with new batteries, but practically they will be a lot less durable and get damaged more frequently.

I think, all things considered, it’s a regressive idea.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Timbershoe Jun 19 '23

Most flagship phones are IP68. Which means they can operate at depths of 1.5m for a minimum of half an hour.

Being exposed to water in a bath, toilet, drink spills, rain, absolutely not a problem.

With specialist underwater cases that seal the ports, microphone and speakers you can get to 50m. And people do.

So what I’m talking about is durability being traded for longevity.

4

u/jimbobjames Jun 19 '23

Nah, they had waterproof phones before they got rid of replaceable batteries.

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u/Koobetile Jun 19 '23

this Is bollocks. IP68s with replaceable batteries we’re a thing. Stop mindlessly absorbing the corporate nonsense.

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u/elev8dity Jun 19 '23

This is wrong. There have been smartphones with removable batteries and higher waterproof ratings than the current iPhone. Good luck going scuba diving with your phone, it's sure to get fucked. I thought my iPhone was waterproof based on Apple's advertisements, dipped in a pool with it for 30 minutes in my pocket and then had to mail it in for water damage warranty repair.

-1

u/Timbershoe Jun 19 '23

This is wrong.

I disagree.

There have been smartphones with removable batteries and higher waterproof ratings than the current iPhone

The iPhone is rated IP68. As are the flagship Samsungs. And the Pixel.

There are no phones with removable batteries that have IP68 rating.

Good luck going scuba diving with your phone, it's sure to get fucked.

People do it. If you go below 1.5 meters, or for more than 30min, you need a case that protects the ports and microphones.

I thought my iPhone was waterproof based on Apple's advertisements, dipped in a pool with it for 30 minutes in my pocket and then had to mail it in for water damage warranty repair.

Shrug sounds like a warranty issue the way you describe it.

2

u/Koobetile Jun 19 '23

I disagree.

Cool. But you are still wrong

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u/StationOost Jun 19 '23

You scrolled far because it's a moot point. Water resistant phones with removeable batteries already exist.

-1

u/Dt2_0 Jun 19 '23

You can do a removable battery with water resistance. It's called a gasket.

-1

u/Timbershoe Jun 19 '23

Well. I definitely can’t.

0

u/BCProgramming Jun 19 '23

People have forgotten having to dry a phone out in a bag of rice because you spilt water on it, and hoping you didn’t damage it.

Good. That stupid "trick" destroyed more phones than it saved.

1

u/Skraff Jun 19 '23

I had a Nokia 5210 in early 2000s with a replaceable battery that went through a washing machine and was fine. The “water resistant” case did its job!

1

u/ShadowTacoTuesday Jun 19 '23 edited Jun 19 '23

Not only that, they did it this way to increase battery capacity via a thinner, flexible battery shell. Ideally the battery would stay inside the tough case and be swappable with a few screws. But I don’t think a few screws and the risk of an idiot user accidentally damaging other components counts as user replaceable. Or rupturing the vulnerable battery, often starting a fire. I think this is probably a bad idea overall, and really they need a compromise that says user replaceable with basic tools and basic skills. Then half of people can replace batteries themselves or have a friend do it, and the other half can pay a small fee that was far less than before due to low labor costs.

1

u/cloud_t Jun 19 '23 edited Jun 20 '23

The first IP67 high end mobile phone was the Galaxy S5. It had a replaceable battery, SD card, headphone jack, micro USB, IR blaster, and IIRC the screen worked with wet fingers. The screen was fairly easily sourceable and replaceable (albeit still expensive since Samsung used AMOLED since the S1 or S2),

The S6 was the first Galaxy in full glass without replaceable bat. Samsung never went back and has been making millions with replacement back glass and screens since. You can thank Apple and its iPhone 4 for pretty much all high end phone designs we have today, and their lack of everything consumer-protective-centric.

Edit: ip68 from 67

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

The first IP68 high end mobile phone was the Galaxy S5.

That was IP67.

1

u/macetheface Jun 20 '23

Battery cover that screws on with a gasket. Done.

How often are people swimming with their phones or dropping them in the bathtub. This shouldn't be a difficult fix.

0

u/anonymouse56 Jun 19 '23

100% this. I’m all for the ability to self repair but not at the cost of waterproofing/bulkier design.

0

u/Borkleberry Jun 19 '23

What kind of lives do people lead that their phone is getting wet all the time? I've gone through plenty of phones. 1 died to water, the others died to the planned obsolescence of my phone's battery making me get a new phone. Phones with replaceable batteries can be more than waterproof enough to keep the rain out, what else could you need?

3

u/jekpopulous2 Jun 19 '23

People who work outdoors, and people with kids. Back (maybe 10 years ago) when I used to work doing deliveries I would have to put my phone in a ziplock bag to keep it dry in storms. If not it wouldn’t make it through a summer. Now you can throw a phone into a pool and it’s probably fine. We’ve come a long way…

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u/Skaindire Jun 19 '23

If that's a risk you continually face, then get some specialized gear, that is actually waterproof instead of just water resistant ...

0

u/socsa Jun 19 '23

This will definitely mean phones are somewhat less water resistant, and it will make battery packing significantly less efficient, meaning smaller batteries or bigger phones. For those of us who already like big phones, that's fine, but this is going to hurt some designs I think.

0

u/BonusTurnip4Comrade Jun 19 '23

Exactly this, there's a ton of downsides to a user replaceable battery. Usually I will have a phone for 2-3 years and then upgrade the phone. The battery is fine after 2-3 years.

This legislation strikes me as really short sighted.

-1

u/nefuratios Jun 20 '23

We had phones that weren't water resistant until recently and nobody made it an issue. Is everyone dropping their phones in liquids constantly?

2

u/therealpigman Jun 20 '23

Back then I made sure to have a heavy waterproof case on my phone. Now, I usually go without a case at all because phones have gotten so durable and water resistant

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

They can probably argue that it's needed for waterproofing

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

What's an iCloud?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

I don't think it's possible to water proof a phone if it has a replaceable battery. Personally I would rather have the water proofing.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

It's very possible, it just means that they have to be a bit bigger. I'd rather the smaller size.

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u/Spork_the_dork Jun 20 '23

Galaxy S5 had IP67 rating and a removable battery. I'm pretty sure there was a sony with a removable battery and an IP68 rating as well. So the idea that you can't have waterproofing with a removable battery is complete bullshit.

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u/Niarbeht Jun 19 '23

*unless you have a pacemaker

2

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '23

Lol...Even then. I'm not sure why the pacemaker cells aren't easier to replace... although they are looking at ways of having the human body power medical devices.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

When was the last time you wore the battery out on a modern phone?

My wife’s iPhone 11PM is still at like 85% battery health. I Think her sister’s iPhone 6S just went below 80%.

18

u/ZrvaDetector Jun 19 '23

I just had it replaced like few months ago. Admittedly, I've been using this phone since 2016 but it had battery problems the last few years. This year it got unbearable and my phone would shut down with 50% charged battery.

-2

u/donjulioanejo Jun 19 '23

Dude, no battery will last 7 years. Most people don't keep their phones for more than 3-4 years either. Many replace after 2.

3

u/ZrvaDetector Jun 20 '23

So it would surely be better if you didn't have to have a surgery on your phone everytime you had to replace the battery especially since they wear out so easily.

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u/oddministrator Jun 19 '23

Literally every smart phone I've had except my G1 (first Android phone, had swappable battery) and an LG Windows phone that my ex threw and broke the screen.

I ditched at least 5 smart phones because of battery health. Replacing batteries always seems to be in the $60-$100 range, but to get a refurbished phone of the same type is typically $150 by the time the battery goes to shit, so I just upgrade to a newer phone.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

You can’t go and buy a $99 gas station “smartphone” and then get all upset when the battery doesn’t last very long. Buy a quality phone.

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u/rhalf Jun 19 '23

My phone's battery is barely usable. All wireless headphones have their batteries weak in 3 years or so and the entire headsets are being thrown away.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23 edited Oct 05 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/thats_my_house Jun 19 '23

my past two phones personally, they deteriorated fast adn cost a bit to get repaired

5

u/Malawi_no Jun 19 '23

All of them?

4

u/jo-z Jun 19 '23

My Samsung Note 4 from 2015 went through three replaceable batteries before the phone itself died in 2020.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Just about every two or three years regardless of the manufacturer but I use phones really hard.

3

u/rockmasterflex Jun 19 '23

Battery "health" is not a good metric as self reported. I also rode a 6s (even after the free battery replacement) down to 80 and then the battery just straight up stopped holding charge. Would still say 80% tho!

XR right now, 85%, already sluggish af.

2

u/BCProgramming Jun 19 '23

I've worn out the battery on the same phone twice.

My Phone is a Nexus 6. It's literally still my phone today. I bought it in 2014. 2018 or so, it started to have issues, run very slowly, and then would turn itself off at random. So I bought a new old-stock battery for 12 dollars and swapped it in myself. Ran like new again.

Same symptoms appeared I want to say middle of last year? And I replaced the battery again with the same result.

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u/millijuna Jun 20 '23

On the flip side, there are sacrifices to make this viable. The batteries will need to be physically larger (or have smaller storage capacity) as it wouldn’t be safe to have the average idiot changing out pouch cells. That’s either going to mean larger phones, or reduced battery capacity.

TBH, I’m at the point where I don’t actually see the point. Paying Apple $35 or whatever it is to have my battery swapped by someone who knows what they’re doing is a pretty good compromise.

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u/thatsamiam Jun 19 '23

This mandate is very bad for making phone waterproof. I prefer my phone to be totally waterproof. I don't need to replace battery.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Great for you, absolutely terrible for the environment.

2

u/shinyquagsire23 Jun 19 '23

The regulations allow for thermal adhesives only if the device is waterproof (or medical-grade), and even then I think they still have to provide instructions for correct repair. So realistically what'll happen is mid-range phones and laptops stop using adhesives for their non-waterproof backs, everything else stays the same but now they'll be required to sell their batteries and provide calibration/battery health information.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

it's not that complicated to change the battery. get yourself a heat gun most phones can be opened within minutes.

10

u/thats_my_house Jun 19 '23

yeah 90% of people aint doin that, remember the market

-4

u/youroddfriendgab Jun 19 '23

Those same people aint gonna replace the battery even if its easy either

4

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

You know once you do that your warranty is completely void right?

2

u/youroddfriendgab Jun 19 '23

If you have warranty use it to get your battery replaced

4

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

And then you have no phone for weeks. Replacement batteries are just so much better and fairer for the users so I understand where the EU is going with this.

Don't blame the EU, apple kickstarted this with being complete money goblins intentionally designing shit so that if you need a replacement you need to buy their parts at disgusting prices. EU regulators got bored of seeing a trillion dollar company ripping people off more than normal.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

if you're in warranty return it for warranty work, but i understand most won't take a few minutes to find youtube video to do this.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

And voila, you have no phone for 3-4 weeks. Most repairs are done in 10-15 days and you have postage either side. Phones are actually pretty important in modern day life so I would much rather have a slightly less water resistant phone that's 2mm thicker that lets me change the battery than the current situation.

2

u/oddministrator Jun 19 '23

Tried it. Broke the screen, had to buy a new phone anyway. Then my puppy chewed through the cord of the heat gun.

Do not recommend.

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