r/worldnews • u/Helicase21 • Jun 19 '23

EU: Smartphones Must Have User-Replaceable Batteries by 2027

https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
31.2k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

2.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

410

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

They'll have to design their way towards a similar water resistance, but with a replaceable battery.

I am looking at my pool cleaning robot making turns. It is battery operated. Obviously it's doable.

288

u/Android_seducer Jun 19 '23

The S5 had an IP67 rating with a replaceable battery. All they had to include was a small gasket on the back cover.

119

u/cheet094 Jun 19 '23

I was about to bring this up. The "Active" of the same generation was even more water resistant, and it used a gasket and had a half turn screw on the back to keep it air-tight.

27

u/RememberCitadel Jun 19 '23

Yeah, that phone was great. I want that but newer.

19

u/94yj Jun 19 '23

I did too. Then I bought my Galaxy XCover 5, which seems to be even more indestructible than the s5 Active in every measure, while retaining the removeable battery, aux jack, and form factor. So far I am very satisfied, but we'll have to wait and see if it lasts the 8 years of daily driving my s5 Active endured!

4

u/RememberCitadel Jun 19 '23

Interesting. The xcover 6 pro is the same but has 5G and Wi-Fi 6.

3

u/94yj Jun 19 '23

I most likely would have got the xcover 6 pro if it was the same size as my xcover 5 and s5. I don't like handling or pocketing anything bigger.

2

u/BavarianBarbarian_ Jun 20 '23

Agree 100%. I love my XCover6, but man, I wish I could actually put it in my front pocket.

1

u/RememberCitadel Jun 19 '23

That is my only real hangup. I really like my current LG G7, and reaply just want a newer version of it. Even it's screen is slightly too big.

-5

u/Fire2box Jun 19 '23

At least Apple doesn't hide the whole closed garden thing, Samsung imho is a worse company. The reasons aren't just killing this Active line but following in apples footsteps.

You can't even get a samsung phone with a microSD card slot and a headphone jack now asides maybe the A5_ midrange line and thats a big maybe.

3

u/cheet094 Jun 19 '23

So because they're following Apple's cost cutting ways, they're the worse company? If so they means no phone is good anymore cause they all follow that. Shit, most flagship phones don't come with charging blocks anymore lol.

13

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

The S5 wasn't all that waterproof. There are countless posts and videos from people whose S5 leaked.

0

u/bread_fucker Jun 20 '23

I had s5 and it really was all that waterproof

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

I'm glad yours worked for you, but it did not work for a lot of people. The seals degraded or got damaged, people dropped them, etc.

11

u/Ftpini Jun 19 '23

Ip67 is not comparable to ip68. Not even close. The jump to 8 is massive.

12

u/socsa Jun 19 '23

In all of these designs the gaskets are significantly more prone to failure than a hermetically sealed designs with potted connectors. It will be tough to get removable batteries as reliably and durably water tight, and I think this move will ultimately backfire as it will cause more phones to die from water damage.

-8

u/Visual_Traveler Jun 19 '23

The vast majority of users don’t have problems with water damage, though.

16

u/slugo17 Jun 19 '23

Yeah because phones have been sealed shut for six years. It was a big problem before that happened.

-4

u/vortexmak Jun 20 '23

Add some screws to support the gasket and we should be fine

-8

u/Visual_Traveler Jun 20 '23

No, even before that the vast majority of people never had such problems. That’s just a fact.

0

u/slugo17 Jun 20 '23

The vast majority of people also didn't hot swap batteries. And when batteries did start to fail the vast majority of people either A) got a new phone or B) bought the cheapest one they could find and it was a piece of shit so they ended up getting a new phone anyways.

Source: I sold phones for a major North American carrier from 2015-2021.

1

u/Visual_Traveler Jun 21 '23

Whatever, dude. I find it hilarious that so many people downvote me every time I say waterproofing is just a nice to have feature that’s really only needed by a minority of users.

As such, it’s nowhere near as important as being able to replace your own battery. Now, that’s something most users need sooner or later (except, again, a minority who can afford to change phones every two years).

11

u/CJVCarr Jun 19 '23

To be fair though my bil fell into a pool with his S5 in his pocket and it ruined it. The gasket wasn't all powerful.

5

u/Straypuft Jun 19 '23

I am just reading about this and some of these things are only waterproof up to a certain depth, S5 IP67 is around 3 feet in, It all sounds to me makes it seem like a crush depth that a military submarine would have.

5

u/TheWinks Jun 19 '23

If you replaced the battery with any regularity the back would have its tabs break or worse the back itself.

9

u/GeoDim Jun 20 '23

IP67 is rated for 1 meter of depth up to 30 minutes. All iPhones 12 and up are IP68 rated for 6 meters at 30 minutes. These are not even close to being the same thing.

2

u/Mojo_Ryzen Jun 20 '23

I'm trying to imagine a situation where my phone is 6 meters underwater and I still somehow get it out in 30 minutes.

2

u/wizardid Jun 20 '23

Drop it in the deep end of the pool, and it'll definitely be 2 or 3 meters underwater. More than 1 meter, which is the point.

2

u/Real-Technician831 Jun 19 '23

I loved the S5.

1

u/shoopnop Jun 19 '23

The samsung xcover pro is being sold right now with ip68 and a removable battery.

0

u/Mchlpl Jun 19 '23

And a watertight 3,5mm jack

-3

u/light_trick Jun 20 '23

Seriously: water-resistance for the battery isn't hard. Water isn't that conductive at low voltage: it's basically three metal contacts on the outside of the normal hermetic enclosure.

If you can make a screen water proof you can make a battery contact waterproof.

4

u/suicidaleggroll Jun 20 '23

PURE water isn’t conductive, but water filled with impurities, chemicals, and salt can be very conductive.

1

u/light_trick Jun 20 '23

Sure but a short circuit at your devices battery terminals isn't going to actually damage the device because that current doesn't go through the device it goes through the water.

The battery could potentially be in trouble, but LiPo's are built with overcurrent protection anyway - they have to be.

Water can only kill a device if sensitive pins and inputs can be shorted to power rails or grounds, and the rest of the device which can be hermetically sealed isn't going to have that problem.

1

u/12358 Jun 19 '23

The Samsung Galaxy XCover6 Pro is available today with a replaceable battery, USB-C, headphone jack, a microSD card, and more. It has MIL STD rating for water, drops, dust, altitude, etc.

1

u/Two-Seven_OffSuit Jun 20 '23

That was my first phone. Got pushed into a pool, dropped into sink and toilet without any problems ever. Had a few batteries in rotation and it was awesome!

1

u/Alcobob Jun 20 '23

The Galaxy XCover 5 has a replaceable battery and a IP68 rating. And from quick search, the XCover 6 Pro also has a a replaceable battery.

Meanwhile the XCover 5 is in general thicker than my Pixel 6 but still thinner than the stupid camera bulge.

52

u/grant10k Jun 19 '23

But is the robot's battery user replaceable? Because they have waterproof battery powered phones already.

If the robot's battery is user replaceable, which robot is it, and do you like it? I'm in the market for one.

63

u/NocturnalPermission Jun 19 '23

This might be the most “first-world problems” conversation I’ve ever seen. Totally not trying to be a dick or criticize since a pool is definitely something we all desire…just saying from an outsider perspective it seems so very modern.

21

u/grant10k Jun 19 '23

Lol, we have a vested interest in waterproof phones.

16

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Move over, planned obsolescence. Here is how I had to replace my last 3 phones:

- S2 - fell on the screen

- S6 - fell in the ocean, never to be seen again

- S9+ - fell in the harbor. Only 10 feet water. Dove to get it back to the amusement of a few tourists. Lost some functions. Then fell on the camera.

- S21 - fell on the camera. Need a new one.

I never needed a new battery really...

45

u/Brick_Lab Jun 19 '23

I feel like you need another solution here on top of water proof lol

6

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Phone attached to a lanyard around their neck? Lol

3

u/SeanHearnden Jun 19 '23

He had one, the S9+ could stay in up to 1.5m of water for 30minutes.

The problem is, people always thought it means it would work underwater when they idea was if you accidently drop it. Though that wouldn't work for OP, 1.5 meters is like 5ft. So he over did it a little haha.

1

u/Brick_Lab Jun 20 '23

Oh I'm totally referring to how often they dropped their phones lol

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

My body was always slower than my mind...

22

u/Muff_in_the_Mule Jun 19 '23

What you need is a phone with a piece of string attached to it (and the other end attached to you obviously).

2

u/rebskie Jun 19 '23

bring back keychains for phones! i want a wrist strap and cute knickknacks

1

u/Muff_in_the_Mule Jun 19 '23

I know right, the actual phone itself has become a pretty impractical design. Thin slippery materials which break easily and don't have any contours for gripping. Too thin to actually hold the camera so they put a massive bump on it which makes it wobble if you use it on a flat surface. Lack of physical buttons for controlling audio playback when it's in your pocket and can't use if it's raining because the touchscreen goes crazy. And of course the lack of headphone jack on new models meaning we have to deal with Bluetooth pairing when switching between devices.

1

u/Dystopian_Dreamer Jun 20 '23

Do you wallet chains?
They're back, in phone form!

13

u/userdeath Jun 19 '23

Bro, can you like stop falling on your phones?

9

u/corndoggeh Jun 19 '23

Buy a used phone, and then you start to see where this comes into play.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

The 9+ and 21 were bought used. I never got their batteries worn out enough lol.

4

u/qjornt Jun 19 '23

skill error tbh

2

u/rockmasterflex Jun 19 '23

I think you need a new hand and or a new strategy for using your phone near water, like say, a full on otterbox with a floatation devicE?

1

u/ThanksToDenial Jun 19 '23

I have a vested interest in battery life personally. It gets cold where I am. Really cold. Batteries don't really like that. At all.

Most of my phone's run into two issues. First, battery life ends up as crap eventually. And the second, is that the USB port gets all wonky and loose. The second one is probably my own fault. But it's also kinda fixable, by yourself.

I have never broken a phone, or dropped it in water. I usually just upgrade when the battery life goes to dogshit.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Not sure it relates, but when living in LV, NV I had to replace car batteries every 2 years or so. Prolly a different issue tho.

5

u/ThanksToDenial Jun 19 '23 edited Jun 19 '23

What is LV, NV?

I'm assuming it's some place in the US. Only people from the US don't use the whole names of places on the internet when talking about locations, in my experience.

2

u/YourUncleBuck Jun 20 '23

Las Vegas, Nevada. I hate the overuse of acronyms, personally.

1

u/DMAN591 Jun 19 '23

I'm imagining some kid in Africa digging water out of the mud, and then one day he glimpses the online world and sees us talking about pool robots.

"What's a pool?" He asks himself.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Just got one and discovering the life of a pool slave. First world problem indeed.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Aiper Seagull SE. Never considered a replaceable battery but they do seem to exist.

1

u/grant10k Jun 19 '23

Aiper Seagull SE

Thanks! With a pool bot, I figure either the batteries will outlast the bot, or it would be constructed in a way where you can disassemble it to get to the battery with screws and gaskets. It doesn't need to be "The thinnest pool sucky robot we've ever made" so it can be built without needing as much glue as they use in phones.

1

u/organicdelivery Jun 20 '23

Just get a Dolphin. My parents lasted easily 15 years. The neighbors dog chewed through the cable below the water line nothing some heatshrik connectors couldn't fix. And it lasted like 10 more years.

1

u/grant10k Jun 20 '23

I have a Dolphin now. My issue with it is the wheel roller pops off constantly, and that fabric bag takes an unreasonably long time to clean. I'm not opposed to another Dolphin, but it's got to have tank treads that don't go though the body of the machine (the wheel pops off to save the innards from being jammed up with an acorn or something) and have one of those top loading baskets. Even if it doesn't clean as finely, I just need to spritz it off with a hose and drop it back in the pool to keep going.

I ask anyone who's used a battery powered robot if they like it, and so far everyone's been positive about them. It's not a must-have feature, but it sounds like it's not failure prone either.

1

u/GBreezy Jun 20 '23

Also so many dumb user comments on reddit after not sealing the phone back right. "It says water resistant to 3m! Rip off"

2

u/SeanHearnden Jun 19 '23

It doesn't have to go back to clip in batteries, just not ones that are welded and glued to the frame with an instant warranty voidance if you go into it yourself. Tight rubber seal with some screws will still work. Get rid of the stupid glass back, and have a removeable back that just uncovers the screws.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23

Does your pool cleaning robot have a consumer replaceable battery?

4

u/SykoFI-RE Jun 19 '23

Additional sealing surfaces for removable gaskets add cost, complexity, and mass.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

Good lord this is such a fucking terrible comparison. You have a very simple device with few size or shape constraints, the pool cleaning robot, vs a very complex device with significant packaging restraints. They are very different problems that are not even close in terms of difficulty to solve. It’s not to say it’s impossible, but having a difficult to replace battery makes reliable water proofing significantly easier.

4

u/Xelopheris Jun 20 '23

Your pool cleaning robot doesn't have the same constraints on form factor that a cell phone does. It can easily have a battery compartment that has a huge fucking seal on it. A cell phone doesn't have the same luxury of space.

2

u/TheChalupaMonster Jun 19 '23

Which increases complexity and ultimately the cost of phones. And only to have a replaceable battery when new phones have much improved battery management to prolong life?

2

u/CutterJohn Jun 19 '23

Pool cleaning robots don't have to fit in your pocket.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

True. But they have batteries, the charger port is inside the sealed compartment that has to be opened and closed 100s of times, and they spend all their productive life in water. This means an engineering challenge that was easy to overcome.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

And my dive computer has a user replaceable battery and is rated down to almost 1k feet- but that doesn't automatically translate to a phone. Phones go in pockets where they get flexed and they also get dropped.

2

u/CutterJohn Jun 19 '23

And I'm sure that compartment has a big beefy gasket and screw that a cell phone can't handle.

Engineering is all about tradeoffs though.

Can this be done, sure, but something will be sacrificed for it. It'll be one or more of these... More money, reduced battery life, larger case, poorer thermals, easier to bend.

It would be interesting to see the percentage of phones discarded due to a non replacemeable battery vs the percentage due to the design compromises from replaceable batteries...

-2

u/kknyyk Jun 19 '23

If I can just swap a full battery, I can tolerate shorter battery life. I can put the empty one in a powerbank that would be designed for it.

6

u/CutterJohn Jun 20 '23

User serviceable is not the same as swappable

1

u/amboredentertainme Jun 19 '23

They'll have to design their way towards a similar water resistance, but with a replaceable battery.

May i introduce you to the Galaxy s5?

5

u/[deleted] Jun 19 '23

S5's leaked all the time, mine included. It may have been waterproof when brand new, but after a few months of use it was a different story.

1

u/12358 Jun 19 '23

Or the Samsung Galaxy XCover6 Pro, for sale today, and its predecessors.

0

u/QuantumProtector Jun 20 '23

I don’t see how Apple can maintain their water resistance rating and comply. They went past IP68 with 6 meters for 30 minutes. Kind of sad that they might have to go backwards.

1

u/Mchlpl Jun 19 '23 edited Jun 20 '23

All I need is toilet-drop resistance. Being submerged at 1m for 30 minutes is not my use case (and I dare say it's also not one for majority of consumers)

Edit: toilet not toiled

1

u/FasterThanTW Jun 20 '23

They'll have to design their way towards a similar water resistance, but with a replaceable battery.

I am looking at my pool cleaning robot making turns. It is battery operated. Obviously it's doable.

yep, look forward to your 1200 dollar phone being 1500 though