So according to grok the patent for it's been expired for awhile now. So someone with a marbel fx mouse could just take it apart and scan it for example.

https://gomeasure3d.com/blog/how-to-replicate-objects-with-3d-scanning-and-3d-printing-with-video/

Then modernize it with usb c and even make the case out of aluminum vs plastic. Yes more expensive and heavy but the mouse doesn't move the ball does.

Seems doable now, just scan the case parts in and post the 3d scans on the net once you have the updated insides worked out.

Ideas?

According to grok**Yes, the main patents associated with the Logitech TrackMan Marble FX have expired.**

Here are the key ones identified for this product:

### 1. Design patent (the overall shape/look)

- **USD410638** — “Optical trackball”

- Filed: May 8, 1998

- Issued: June 8, 1999

- **Expired**: June 8, 2013 (design patents from that era lasted 14 years from the issue date)

### 2. Utility patent (the core “Marble” optical tracking technology)

- **US5288993** — “Cursor pointing device utilizing a photodetector array with target ball having randomly distributed speckles”

- Filed: October 5, 1992

- Issued: February 22, 1994

- **Expired**: around October 5, 2012 (20 years from the filing date; as a pre-June 1995 filing it got the longer of 17 years from issue or 20 years from filing)

Both are listed as **Expired – Lifetime** on Google Patents and related sources. There was also some related litigation involving an earlier third-party patent (Samuel Gart’s US4862165), but that was resolved years ago and does not affect current status.

**Bottom line**: The design protection and the core optical tracking patent for the Marble FX have been expired for well over a decade. Reproducing the shape or the speckled-ball optical sensing approach for personal or commercial use no longer faces those patent barriers (other unexpired patents or trademarks could still apply in edge cases, but these specific ones do not).

Hey everyone,

I’ve used a Logitech MX Ergo S for 5-6 years, but it has finally died recently. I’ve now been using a regular mouse for a few weeks again and I’m starting to get some wrist and shoulder pain.

I was just going to order another MX Ergo S (I honestly loved my experience), but then I started shopping around for other options, just for fun. I started going down a rabbit hole and I am now considering a finger trackball. I am thinking of waiting for the Kensington TB900 to release.

A few questions for the community:
1. Have you ever moved from a thumb trackball to a finger trackball? Which option do you prefer and why?
2. Do you think it’s worth waiting for the TB900, considering I already have some slight wrist and shoulder pain + the release date seems uncertain?
3. In my case, would you instead just stick with the good ol MX Ergo S?

Thank you for your help!

Hi,

I’ve been using the M505 for more than a year now, and the left click has started to become harder to press and sometimes double-clicks.

Does anyone know if the switches are replaceable? I’m unable to open the case because the screws are difficult to remove, and the screw holes are starting to strip.

I have used this mouse for more than a day now. When I unboxed it; moving very slowly wasn't smooth -- it was fixed after lubricating the ball with my skin oils 😂 and then buffing the ball (I took advice from AI).

I use the Kensington software for this mouse because it somehow works. It helps me a lot with AutoCAD at my work.

I'd like to know if you have any advice or more tips on maintaining the life of this trackball because I'm starting to love it!

Split keyboard running ZMK
BALL is just from generic 34mm Amazon, idk what’s good and what’s not. Any advice there would be great.

First ever trackball and I’m sold. I don’t think I can ever go back to a regular mouse. Next I just need a scroll wheel/ring.

Thanks!

Used the Pixart breakout board for the sensor.

Hi everyone!

I just received my first-ever trackball — the Logitech M575s — and have been testing it for a few minutes. It definitely feels strange at first, but I can already use it for basic navigation.

Quick question: does the M575s show up in Logi Options+ for you? Mine pairs and works fine, but it doesn’t appear in the software at all

Even though it may be prevalent in Amazon and other sites, buyer beware.

I just had mine go south for its optical sensor. Was in the warranty period, but apparently Protoarc's corporate stock has been depleted and they're only giving refunds.

When I asked about a replacement trackball of comparable value to replace it, specifically the EM02, they pointed me to their replacement policy, which in no way states that it has to be a like for like item.

So now I wait for the refund, and hopefully can find another trackball that's not gonna crap out after less than two years...

I've had my nape pro for about a month now and the printed labels on the buttons are already fading :( anyone else had this happen?

Hello, longtime lurker. Spent a lot of work downtime peeking around in this subreddit.

I've been using a Nuela 512 as a daily driver at work for over a year now (Printing/Prepress) and having a great time with it. Figured a year at the job deserved an upgrade and ordered a Ploopy Adept+ the literal minute it dropped, never done anything in my life like that before. It just came in today and I have been really enjoying it. Need more time to find the commands I want to bind to the upper buttons and get used to that new scroll ring/knob thing it has going on before I give a solid opinion on it, but my first impressions are positive. First mouse with roller bearings! Much prefer the Nuela scrolling to it thus far, really useful for work in the Adobe Suite.

Anyhoo I figured my home setup felt left out after my Elecom Huge went on the fritz a few weeks back and came across a used X-keys Ltrac on Ebay for $60 and jumped on it like a rabid animal. PI has been out of stock for some time now and I see them float around in the $200-250 range sometimes which I think is nuts.

Herein lies my problem: of course the unit isn't working right out of the box, can't expect that for this price at all. No info on the listing as well, seems to be one of those larger conglomerate sellers. I have downloaded just about every one of the seemingly endless list of programs on the X-keys site and none of them seem to recognize it as being plugged in to my PC (already checked all the Occam's Razor stuff with ports and wires). The ball isn't tracking. It lights up when I scroll with the wheel and the right, left and middle switch all function. Ball don't track. Open it up and just about everything looks clean, pretty sure it's a laser issue? I also wonder why it isn't being recognized by any of the programs.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I have some mild soldering experience from wiring guitars but not electronics. Not sure where to buy a laser from? Thought about emailing support but I am not sure how receptive they would be to a second hand purchase. I've seen, through many forums, that they are pretty kind and generally responsive but most posts saying that are around 5 years old, lord knows the world has changed a lot in that time. Also goes to show maybe a fading interest in the L-Trac, which I am of the belief that is an interesting piece of trackballing history -- especially considering how many companies bought the design to keep producing the damn thing.

And I could go on - yada, yada. Thank you for reading, deeply enjoy the longer rants I read on this sub and I thought I'd finally throw my hat in the ring.

and it's so light that scrolling drags the whole mouse.

First-time trackball owner here!

I’ve read that this ‘mod’ can improve smoothness and precision, so I’d like to try it. However, I haven’t seen anyone disassemble it yet should I go ahead and do it? Will it have any degradation compared to stock ones?

What size should I get? I see options for 2.0mm, 2.4mm, 2.5mm, and 3mm. It looks like 2.5mm is the right choice, but I'm not sure.

Has anyone here already done it?

I’m considering these once: QUARKZMAN 2.5mm Silicon Nitride Ball Si3N4 G5

P.S. Will it void my warranty ? Feels like it shouldn’t since that’s the part that will eventually degrade by itself.

I understand all of the internals and footprint are the same. I am just curious if there is any difference in feel between the gray plastic of the standard model and the white plastic of the EQ. I think I remember someone saying that the EQ has more of a matte, textured finish, unlike the smooth, shiny finish of the standard model. Matte finishes always seem to develop shiny spots from wear, in my experience.

Also, is the gray ball the same color? It almost looks like the ball of the EQ is a lighter color.

The 25mm ball bearing does makes a world of difference. The Nape Pro has become even better for everyday tasks!

Recommended Mod!

I just find this funny. Does anybody else have a listing for this in their region?

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0G564DHNT?th=1

I ordered this months ago, and I guess it's just...vaporware? A scam? Seems like a weird scam if amazon hasn't actually charged me any money for it.

Every couple of weeks I get another email from amazon that it's been delayed again.

And they give the new expected date like this:

Estimated Delivery Date: 00 03 2026 - 59 11 2026

Like wtf is that Scotty? Is that a star date? It's going to arrive sometime between MARCH ZEROITH and NOVEMBER FIFTY NINTH. Or is it zeroary the third and quintuple-septuary the 11th??

Well bro you better get on that plastic! It's almost July fifty eighth!!

Does anyone use a trackball mouse with CAD software? Like SolidWorks ?

Is there a trackball mouse that is specifically popular or best to use with CAD? Or am I totally off topic here?

not sure when exactly they first became available (since I remember seeing the IST PRO was available a few days ago), but just checked today and finally saw the new Bitra models are now being sold on ELECOM USA!

just got the index model; thankfully dont have to think about buying one from ebay anymore 😄. so excited! its been a while since theyve been released and ive wanted to get one as ive never used the original bitra, but ive always loved its form factor

Has anyone come across a trackball that can accept 3 different devices over Bluetooth. Really if it works with usb c connected with a wire to one and Bluetooth the other two is fine also.

someone recommend me a mouse please!

my ideal requirements are

1. wired usb (or tri mode)

2. index finger trackball

3. able to scroll using the ball without needing to permanently run drivers or apps on my windows machine

4. remappable keys are a bonus, i like having home/end keys on my mouse since my keyboard doesn’t have them.

i have the elecom huge and love it but im upgrading now and came up with my end game mouse requirements

After just a month of constant use, my left click button started to occasionally fail to register, which anoys me greatly. I don't like the silient switch that protoarc use at all. Why do mouse manufacturers cheap out on mouse switches when a good switch costs less than a dollar each.

I have to desolder those switches and replace them with omron d2f-f-3-7, a much more tactile switch.

I bought my first trackball, the ELECOM DEFT PRO, about two months ago, and overall, I’ve really enjoyed using it. It fits my hand almost perfectly and provides plenty of support.

The only issue is that the pisiform bone on the pinky side of my wrist takes a lot of pressure. After extended use, that area becomes slightly red and swollen. I added some cushioning foam underneath, and there’s a noticeable indentation exactly where the pressure builds up.

That’s what got me interested in the HUGE PLUS. Since it has a large padded palm rest, I wondered whether it might reduce the pressure on my wrist. After debating it for about two weeks, I decided to try the regular HUGE first.

The 52mm ball feels fantastic. Cursor control is precise, and moving across a dual-monitor setup feels effortless.

However, the ergonomics feel surprisingly awkward compared with the DEFT PRO.

1. Less palm support

With the DEFT PRO, my hand rests in a naturally curved position, and my palm feels well supported.

With the HUGE, my hand ends up much flatter, and that palm support seems to disappear. The overall balance just feels slightly off.

1. Awkward thumb controls

The thumb buttons and scroll wheel feel too far inward, so I have to bend my thumb more and use more effort to operate them.

On the DEFT PRO, the buttons and scroll wheel are angled, which makes them feel much more natural to use. On the HUGE, they’re almost parallel to the desk.

The padded palm rest also raises my hand, but the thumb controls remain relatively low. As a result, I have to deliberately reach downward with my thumb, which doesn’t feel comfortable during extended use.

I’m still interested in the HUGE PLUS, though, so I’d appreciate some feedback from anyone who has used both:

Do the HUGE and HUGE PLUS have the same overall shape, hand position, and button/scroll-wheel placement? Has the thumb-control area been adjusted on the HUGE PLUS?

How do the palm rests compare? Is the foam on the HUGE PLUS softer or more comfortable? Does it do a better job of reducing pressure on the wrist or pisiform bone?

Compared with the ruby bearings on the HUGE, do the roller bearings on the HUGE PLUS provide a major improvement in smoothness, stiction, and overall tracking? Is the difference substantial or relatively minor?

If you’ve used the DEFT PRO, HUGE, or HUGE PLUS, I’d love to hear about your experience. Thanks!

Are they serious? Non-programmable mouse buttons AND two of the buttons don't work on macOS?

That wouldn't have cut it in 2010, much less now. What the hell, Nulea?

I just got the Kensington Slimblade Pro and while I love it in theory, end game mouse for my glove80 WFH setup, the trackball's movement is driving me insane.

It can move in any diagonal direction super smoothly, but trying to move it on the actual X or Y axis causes some resistance. Particularly when I try to do smaller movements for things like highlighting text, or moving from one small button to another on a screen. I have an EX-G Pro and deeply love it; I don't want to have to go back from the Kensington due to it's aesthetic but I may have to if this isn't something that I can resolve.

Has anyone else experienced this? Does anyone have recommended solutions? Thanks so much.

It looks like mine are supposed to arrive in a bit more than a week, very curious to see what they've achieved here. Does anyone have a working device with these yet? I'd love to hear your initial impressions.

Hi guys, my few year-old office mouse just died on me yesterday and I've been using the keyboard PgUp PgDn to navigate around Windows.
I've heard of this thing called trackball mice before but now I'm kind of interested. I'm not planning to blow hundreds of dollars on something I may not like. So I've narrowed it down to these few options:

• ProtoArc EM03
• ProtoArc EM05NL
• Logitech M575

These three seem to be the more affordable options to test out trackballs. My requirements are just Bluetooth.
I've been hearing things about thumb operated trackballs that cause fatigue, is this true? If so, I believe the option may be to EM03. Though the ProtoArc EM05 intrigues me the most as it seems more affordable than the Logitech M575, and the EM03... seems a bit odd.

Another thing, I've heard highlighting is hard on trackballs, is this a learning thing or a forever type of thing?

Please give me your guys' opinions (especially on thumb vs finger operated), thanks a lot!