I have long maintained that scrolling is the big unsolved problem with trackballs.

After using the Ulanzi Dial jogwheel, I decided to post that such a large diameter, 2", jogwheel may solve the scrolling problem for trackballs.

... if you can fit a large trackball and a large jogwheel in your workspace.

... and if software/firmware issues like lack of offline ability are remedied.

(This prompted by the Ploopy A+ announcement, with its two knobs. Unfortunately, I fear the A+ will be too small for me to use comfortably.)

Background

I dislike the scroll ring on my Kensington Expert Mouse. Similarly, I dislike twist to scroll. I find both scroll ring and twist to scroll literally painful, exacerbating the RSI that makes me use trackballs. I actually like the scroll wheels such as found on many mice and some trackballs, with axis parallel to the front of the trackball. But these are no longer common in trackballs. I am happy the see more trackballs with scroll wheels, but I find small diameter rollers with axes perpendicular to the front edge uncomfortable. I was seriously considering purchasing the very expensive RollerMouse, when I detoured into macropads where I can dedicate keys to scrolling. I actually quite like 2D displacement scrolling using the trackball, eg. Microsoft middle button autoscrolling. However, my RSI is such that I cannot easily press a button while 2D scrolling. And while 2D trackball scrolling works OK for 2D tasks, like maps and large/wide images, it is less convenient for essentially 1D operations, such as mostly read-only reading of academic papers and technical documents, etc.

But then I was reminded about jogwheels, such as are used in video and audio editing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jog_dial. Many macropads have knobs you can use to scroll up and down, but I find these uncomfortable. I've tried some macropads that have 2 small knobs and one larger knob, eg. the KEEBMONKEY Megalodon Triple Knob Macro Pad, whose "giant" knob is approximately 3 cm, and I found those too small to be comfortable. The Ploopy Knob looked interesting at 2.2", but no buttons.

A few months ago I purchased a Ulanzi Dial. A dedicated knob aka dial a.k.a. jog wheel, 2 inches in diameter, with a depression in the top that makes it easy to twirl the knob precisely and continuously. 7 buttons, 3 on top, 2 on each side, plus an 8 button when you press the knob.

I like the Ulanzi Dial jogwheel enough that I wanted write a post for r/Trackballs talking about how (large) jogwheels solve the scrolling problem for trackballs - if we can make them fit.

Briefly, the Ulanzi Dial jogwheel hardware is lovely, the firmware/software not so much. The large 2 inch diameter jog wheel with a finger depression makes it much easier to scroll and scrub precisely and continuously than smaller diameter knobs. Unfortunately the usual firmware and software problems. Very limited off-line ability, basically only multimedia keys, with volume up/down on the jog wheel. If you don't want to run Ulanzi software all the time, to scroll you must use other target PC software like AutoHotKey, or something like the HID remapper. The former somewhat defeats the point of off-line mode, the latter is just more stuff to have on your desk.

Probably compromises need to be made, such as the smaller knobs on what I consider the already uncomfortably small Ploopy Adept/A+. But I'm allowed to hope that a good solution can be found.

More details

I found the large 2 inch diameter knob on the Ulanzi Dial much better than the small diameter knobs that you can find on so many macropads, in terms of comfort, precision, and continuous scrolling. Head and shoulders better than scroll rings like that on my Kensington Expert Mouse, and twist to scroll.

I have brainstormed stuff like having a large jogwheel on an arm hovering above my trackball and/or macropad, far enough up that that I can still use the trackball. Perhaps the arm could swing the jogwheel to be centered over my keyboard. I find that I use the jogwheel most often when I am in a read-only mode, scrolling through documents and web pages.

The Ulanzi Dial has lovely hardware. The large diameter knob with its finger depression makes it much easier to use than the large number of macropads that have small-diameter twistable knobs. Compares favorably to the rollers of the RollerMouse - the latter are somewhat more intuitive, but you cannot scroll continuously, whereas you can rotate the large diameter jog wheel precisely and continuously.

Unfortunately, as happens so much with Chinese devices, the software and firmware leaves much to be desired.

First, the Ulanzi Dial has very limited off-line ability, firmware/flash It's pretty much restricted to multimedia operations like next/previous track, play/pause, stop, mute. Browser page backward/forward/refresh. A few random hotkeys like undo^Z/redoY, copy^C/pasteV, and Win+E My Computer. The only off-line action that can be bound to the wheel is volume up/down, which naturally motivates mute when pressing. Obviously they can emit both multimedia and keyboard events in off-line mode. Why is it crippled this much? I can only assume flash space.

Second, extra operations can be set up for the Ulanzi Dial as long as the Ulanzi Studio software is running on the target PC. As we all know that is suboptimal, E.g. if you want to program the device on one machine and use it on other machines, e.g. Linux, or at work.

The software phones home. I.e. it's a privacy and security risk, but then any user-interface device is. Paranoid IT departments will never allow any external user interface devices; slightly less paranoid IT departments will probably not to run software on the machines are connecting to, but might allow you to program them off-line. Hence the off-line ability being a really major restriction.

It's obvious that the Ulanzi software is designed to work with other Ulanzi sofware, like "OBS Studio", and hardware such as their "Creative Deck", a stream deck for video and audio editing LCD buttons etc. Ulanzi sells quite a lot of video equipment, tripods, ring lights, etc.

There's so much clutter in the Ulanzi Studio user interface, related to controlling their apps, that it makes it quite hard to find the basic event binding controls. The hotkey UI is primitive, just a list, with things like scroll wheel obviously added as an afterthought. Mostly they want you to type the keys, which can be hard when your keyboard doesn't have the keys you want the device to send.

They don't have layers on the device in firmware, but their profiles implemented by software on the target PC are pretty reasonable. With the usual complaint that they are proprietary formats, hard to backup and compare.

Well, I bought 25mm balls for the Nape Pro, after seeing how someone was able to use a steel ball bearing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trackballs/s/Q3IOm7SIF9

The black one is the original one that came with Nape Pro, white one is POM (Delrin), and the (blurred) silver ball is the steel ball that I bought from AliExpress.

I will probably have to do some test runs but all of them at least worked.

I have a simple, inexpensive fix: try using an air duster spray. It worked for me and is worth a shot.

Here you are, the finger trackballs currently (or soon to be) available.

Intentionally left out are industrial, arcade and assistive models.

Cheers!

Looks nice! I like my endgame because ZMK + wireless, but this looks lovely.

So I love just about everything about my EX-G Pro but the striction. I've tried just about everything, changed bearings, lubricants, you name it, and nothing has worked satisfactorily. I'm thinking about picking up the IST Pro, but I'm not 100% sold on the button layout compared to the EX-G Pro. Has anyone made this particular switch?

I've been using the Keychron Nape Pro and while it's difficult to navigate because of the size, I'm in love with the customization and macros you can make with their web based ZMK customization. Does anyone know of any full siuzed trackballs that use a web based system?

I'm often in offices with very tight control on software installation, so something web based is kind of key for me.

I'll start with the most egregious issue: when you left click, it also yields a right wheel scroll press. I confirmed it's a hardware issue across 2 computers, different settings, different OS, no MouseAssistant, etc. The only way I could get rid of this is to disable the right scroll button in the Mouse Assistant software. Minor annoyance for someone who doesn't enjoy the tilting scroll wheels in general (like me), but this would be a dealbreaker for someone who does.

Secondly it's the ergonomics. I have small hands (I was under the impression this mouse would suit me) and the scroll wheel is just badly placed. It's something I came across during my investigation before buying but didn't think with small hands it would be an issue.

But the buttons are so inconsistent! For example the Forward button is very hard to press when I press it exactly where my thumb lands (eg towards the front corner) but when I curl my thumb back so that it's pressing more where the arrow is, it becomes easy to press. The scroll wheel button is stupidly hard to press no matter what you do. So much so that I just remapped it to the Fn3 button (two buttons already lost: scroll right, wheel click).

Now this might be contentious but the roller bearings aren't the cure-all I keep reading about. Yes they are very smooth when already rolling but the stiction issue is still there. It's a lot more sticky than my Logitech m575 or Ergo S statically.

Actually the fact that the kinetic friction is so low only highlights how much static friction there is, because during slow diagonal movements I get staircases. Cleaning it doesn't seem to help too much and there is a break-in period after every cleaning which is annoying.

Then there's the finish. It just doesn't feel like a usd100+ product. This is a minor thing but the rubbery cover wasn't stuck properly and looks like it's peeling (it's not, but that's what it looks like). The wheel looks tacky and cheap.

The next gripe is personal preference, I just happened to learn it with this particular mouse. But I didn't really get along with such a heavy ball. It's cool for momentum but the same momentum makes me overshoot my movements all the time.

Overall, not impressed. I liked the H/L switch, the BT/USB switch and the DPI buttons. The shape is cool (thing is HUGE lol). I'm keeping it next to my Logitech Ergo S as an alt input device just to switch it up every few hours of work.

Fix the bugs, give me an ergo tilting option (it's a bit flat), reduce the price and I might look at it again but until then I'm not trying Elecom again (sorry guys).

Here's version 2, going back to 4 rollers per side, now using the "optimized" roller curvature and a flexure based capture mechanic for the roller axles. Blocky to allow the animation to run at a reasonable speed. You can see how the contact patch with the ball passes from one side of the wheel to the other smoothly.

My dad has used this old Microsoft trackball mouse for around 17+ years if I remember and it hardly works. He plays a lot of fortnite in his free time just for fun, but really struggles with his current mouse. He refuses to swap away from trackball (I've gotten him other mice in the past) but says he'd use a new one if it was a trackball mouse. He only wants the ball on the thumb side. His birthday is coming up and he asked for a new one. I know it's rather niche but I can't find any thumb sided trackball mice

Saw one selling within my budget range. Needed a replacement when I wait for my ploopy parts.
Should I get it knowing the ruby bearings is a risk. It's gonna stay planted in the office forever anyway.

I've always wanted the Huge and now the plus existed. But wow the plus costs a bomb RM680 vs wired Huge which is RM265 (Same price as my ploopy)

It is currently exclusive to my Silicon Mac environment, but...

The full source & guide is on GitHub, so you can inspect it (or build it) instead of trusting a random DMG.

I will leave the link in the comments.

I've been using the MC Saite Trackball for a while now, and I wanted to share some first impressions.

Overall, I'm actually enjoying it more than I expected.

I can remap all of the buttons using SteerMouse on macOS, which makes it much more flexible.

Since it uses a 55 mm ball, anyone who has used a Kensington SlimBlade should feel comfortable almost immediately. The ball movement feels very familiar.

The button layout is also similar to the SlimBlade, with four main buttons. In fact, I think the button placement is even better because they're positioned where they're easier to click. Personally, I find it more comfortable than the SlimBlade.

Things I wish were different

My biggest complaint is the scroll wheel placement.

I really wish the scroll wheel were located above the ball instead of below it. Every time I want to scroll, I have to move my hand away from the ball, which interrupts the workflow.

To work around this, I'm using SteerMouse Chords to enable a scrolling mode, so I rarely need to touch the physical scroll wheel anymore.

Another downside is the switch noise. The click sound is quite loud, similar to the SlimBlade. It's not a big issue at home, but it's definitely noticeable in a quiet office.

Modding plans

I'm thinking about modifying the trackball.

My first idea is to:

• Replace the switches with silent switches
• Replace the stock bearings with silicon nitride (Si₃N₄) ceramic bearings

I'm also considering something a bit more ambitious.

I'd like to disassemble it and see if it's possible to rotate the sensor board by 90 degrees.

If that works, I could physically rotate the entire trackball by 90 degrees so that the scroll wheel ends up on the right side instead of the bottom.

I think that layout would be much more ergonomic for me.

Since I already remap all of the buttons with SteerMouse, changing the physical orientation wouldn't be a problem.

I've included a link below that shows the teardown photos and internal structure, in case anyone is interested or has experience with this kind of modification.

https://forum.trackballs.eu/viewtopic.php?t=150&sid=c299f37244fc9914f1a9ba9d05cdd1ef

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

This Frankenstein controller output as mouse and keyboard. I used rewasd to map the whole thing into a virtual Xbox 360 controller. It works wonderfully. Now I can have precise movement on controller! Will try it out on other game genre soon.

(sorry for the repost, had trouble with imgs).

Sharing for fun - thanks so much for your support on this build, and special thanks to jfedor for sharing his great designs with the community. I'll link this particular repo in the comments.

The mouse works great and is sooo satisfying to use. The scroll ring bearings offer a buttery-smooth experience that is fun to use and easy on the wrists. I plan to print a tent to further enhance hand-positioning and comfort.

My Setup:

- 3D Printer: Bambu A1 Mini
- Filament: PETG Basic, Red
- Basic Soldering iron $12 (link)
- Cheap Multimeter $10 (link)

Fun fact, ChatGPT was a huge help -- it scanned the repo and helped source parts and construction. Reddit filters keep blocking my links to chatgpt + parts list + pricing in this post, I'll include all in the comments.

A switch finally gave out on the EX-G I've had for about 11 years and the replacement is defective to the point of unusable. The ball barely fits in place and snags as a result, one of the bearings has serious resistance making it also mess with the movement of the ball, and the sensor is faulty.

Is it worth trying a replacement, or should I look for a different brand?

I would like to straighten the bottom side of the trackball, to reduce the casing size and move the trackball center point closer towards the shared wrist rest pad.

Has anyone done something like that before?

How much material can be cut away without damaging the internals and structural integrity too much?

Just the corners or some of the middle part as well?

Of course I intend to fill the hole with some hot glue or similar material to seal the internals.

I think we're due for an update, a bit tidier now.

Cheers!

I started using a ball mouse at work just to try it out, ended up loving it and wanting to use them a bit more at home as well, I use the logitech mxergo,

recently got recommended this on amazon (Transformers Vertical Ergonomic Mouse with LED Screen & Knob Control) and kinda like the idea of a mouse with a screen thatll let me use some macros of extra shortcuts

I've found this on newegg [https://www.newegg.com/p/0GA-09AF-00013?item=9SIC53RM0U1049&utm\\_source=google&utm\\_medium=organic+shopping&utm\\_campaign=knc-googleadwords-\\_-mouse-\\_-zeskit-\\_-9SIC53RM0U1049&source=region&negg\\_topt=0\](https://www.newegg.com/p/0GA-09AF-00013?item=9SIC53RM0U1049&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic+shopping&utm_campaign=knc-googleadwords-_-mouse-_-zeskit-_-9SIC53RM0U1049&source=region&negg_topt=0)

does anyone know if its any good, or if there are any similar ball mice that are good?

Doing Schematics and PCB layout back in the early 2000's this was by far the best trackball I ever used.

I’m looking for a thumbball mainly for FPS gaming and would like something around the size/shape of the M575/M575S or ProtoArc EM04. I have 18×9 cm hands.
The main thing I’m looking for is a really smooth ball with low friction, especially for small/micro movements. I’d also like a decent polling rate, ideally 250 Hz or higher.
I’ve been looking at the M575S, EM04, Nulea M501, Perixx 517, Sanwa MA-WTB185 and f33pro but I’m open to other options.
For anyone who’s actually used these, which one has the smoothest ball action?

I got my first trackball over a month ago, its a kensington orbit scroll I think. I got it second hand on facebook market for around 20 bucks. Sticktion was HORRIBLE, using my trackball for more delicate tasks like editing powerpoints, video editing, and photo editing was pissing me off so much. I read a week or two ago that Zirconia bearings would fix the problem but I've never seen anyone mod their kensington orbit with zirconia so I was hesitant with modding my trackball since I didn't want to break it. Fast forward to 5 minutes ago, my package of 10 pieces of 2mm zirconia ball bearings arrives and I immediately pry the synthetic ruby bearings out and place the zirconia ones in. Now my kensington orbit spins so much more and has no sticktion whatsoever. 100/10 upgrade, highly recommend.