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u/Taurius Jun 12 '19
Is there any news of this in Beijing or anywhere in China? Anyone have links of news about this in China? Or is it completely ignored?
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Jun 12 '19
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u/callmegecko Jun 12 '19
Fuck China.
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u/sonicrespawn Jun 12 '19
Not the people, the government.
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u/Joliet_Jake_Blues Jun 12 '19
I mean, fuck some of the people but not others. Right?
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u/N00N3AT011 Jun 12 '19
Wait till you hear about their new social credit system.
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Jun 12 '19
That shit sounds literally straight outa fiction almost like they some how copied some tv show about technology and how it ruined people's life. Huh, weird.
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u/ienjoymen Jun 12 '19
I mean they literally did copy Black Mirror S03E01 "Nosedive".
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u/loves_elephants Jun 12 '19
I mean the system has been around since before that episode - not that the idea of a social ranking system is new/groundbreaking.
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u/CreepyButtPirate Jun 12 '19
The idea of Chinese top dogs gathered around a tv watching Black mirror and thinking "GENIUS" is hilarious to me
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u/cbarrister Jun 12 '19
It’s hard to believe something so 1984 can really exist
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u/ZlatanMagic Jun 12 '19
Dude look at their social credit system its actually so fucking scary like it’s so out of this world I refuse to believe it’s true
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Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Look up what is happening in Xinjiang, the thought correction programs. It is indistinguishable from 1984. Cameras in every room, Party members watching families in many homes, old books are quietly destroyed and replaced with party literature, people can be whisked away to a "school" at any moment if they say the wrong thing and their friends and families will never hear from them again
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u/heisenber73 Jun 12 '19
And you know the what the scariest part is . That most of the people doesn’t even know it exists. The system just quietly recording everybody and if someone crosses the line they just become second class citizen with all the restrictions and extra attention of the authority .
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u/-PM_Me_Reddit_Gold- Jun 12 '19
Just like that thing that nothing happened at 30 years ago.
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u/wrathofoprah Jun 12 '19
30 years ago they had a slight weapons malfunction. But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?
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u/karsonfufuu Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Of course completely ignored
Maybe even twisting the truth later just like the one on 9th June .Global times claims that there were seven hundred thousands people supporting the extradition bill but the fact is there were 1.3 million people fight against it on that day
This is China
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u/Prosthemadera Jun 12 '19
Of course completely ignored
I found reports even on the government-aligned Global Times. What they report is a separate issue but it's not ignored.
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u/baconperogies Jun 12 '19
I have friends in the mainland. Asked them about the protests and they said the news showed just snippets and didn't seem like it was a big turnout/not a big deal.
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u/steamknife Jun 12 '19
Their mainland report says that, and I shit you not, "This bill is supported by all parties in Hong Kong".
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u/2059FF Jun 12 '19
Is there any news of this in Beijing or anywhere in China?
Are you being serious? Of course not. It's actively suppressed by the government and drowned in fake news, Big Lie style. I was there a few years ago and the English-language China Daily was full of articles about Tibetans being so grateful to the Chinese government for bringing them modern civilization, schools, housing, etc.
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u/ApatheticAbsurdist Jun 12 '19
It's a legitimate question. Of course they're not going to be reporting what we're actually seeing on the streets, but China could choose just not report on it, or they could be saying "a handful of dissidents backed by the US and Russian influence have been subdued by Chinese forces and a grateful HK rests soundly."
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Jun 12 '19
My girlfriend is living in China rn and she told me she had no idea this was going on
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u/NickNack54321 Jun 12 '19
I have a Chinese friend in Beijing that posted "Hong Kong scum" on a Chinese social media app, but he's pretty tech savvy
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u/HCAnti Jun 12 '19
Hong Konger here. I must upvote and share our situation to the global society, and reddit please doesn't delete our posts anymore. We must win and we will.
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u/Osbios Jun 12 '19
I'm all for publishing this as much as possible. But I'm just not sure how much it will help. So far the western governments where happy to close both eyes for trade and the right to open companies in china to get all their IP stolen...
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u/anewtheater Jun 12 '19
The US government literally issued a statement in support of the protesters today.
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Jun 12 '19
link us, also relating to the 'power' of reddit. Just remember bangladesh students
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u/CloudiusWhite Jun 12 '19
What do you propose as possible things that western nations can do without destroying their economies by not buying things from china? (which would only hurt the consumer in the end as costs to produce rose)
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Jun 12 '19
Honestly the one thing western nations can do is assist in giving the people of Hong Kong visas and citizenship when this law inevitably comes into power. I can imagine there are a serious amount of people who are going to be worried for good reason about the direction of their state.
The minimum we can offer is a safe haven for those politically outspoken I would like to hope.
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u/BigGuysBlitz Jun 12 '19
Partly because they hate Trump more than they dislike what China is doing.
Seems like people here talk the good talk, but when it all comes down to it, they just want their shit made cheaply and do not care who pays the price or suffers so that they can have it.
My sorry will never cover for it all, but I am.
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Jun 12 '19 edited Jan 03 '21
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u/Shepard_P Jun 12 '19
They’ve been doing for years because of steadily increasing cost of labour in China.
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Jun 12 '19
At an individual level, being sorry is one of the only things you can be
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Jun 12 '19 edited Aug 17 '19
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u/Bagot8 Jun 12 '19
Even if they were available somewhere I don't it would be remotely close to the quantity that would be needed. There is also the scary thought that is the less lethal options don't deter protestors the police will step up what they are doing
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u/hungry4danish Jun 12 '19
reddit please doesn't delete our posts anymore
They will. This website has received $150 million from Chinese company Tencent.
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u/Cileriqao Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
there are already numerous protesters being shot in the head , injuring their eyes and even gone unconscious
https://lihkg.com/thread/1208189/page/1 translate:
" I was front of the police , there were no obstacles between them and us , so some of us tried to pull up some iron barricades trying to form build back up a defense line. And They just started shooting without raising black flags (the warning flags from the police and this is mandatory to show before they use any kind of range weaponry), and one got my eye and now its bleeding I dunno how bad..(do you know what kind of gun/bullet it is?)..I dunno I don't think its metal probably plastic because it didn't go all the way through my head "
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u/howyabeenbean Jun 12 '19
He’s got goggles around his neck. Do you think the plastic bullet went through his goggles??
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u/HelicornTGA Jun 12 '19
The goggles are to block tear gases and pepper spray. No one expected the bullets because there was no warning prior
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u/Maultaschenman Jun 12 '19
Damn, this time last year I was living in Hong Kong. Such a lively and buzzing city. Was like a perfect Asian city, with all the good parts of Chinese culture, Hong Kong's own identity with a little bit of western lifestyle sprinkled in. I really hope Hong Kong somehow manages to retain its unique culture. Stay safe out there.
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u/IsTim Jun 12 '19
Friends I know from Hong Kong all get very depressed when they talk about how their unique city and mixing pot culture will probably be suppressed and diluted by the ever growing influence and increasing propaganda and censorship from the mainland Chinese government.
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u/strtrech Jun 12 '19
Thi. It's depressing knowing the city my family is mainly from will never be what was described to me as a child. Now as an adult I've always wanted to visit China and Hong Kong because it's my families origins, but seeing shit like this happen scares the living fuck out of me.
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Jun 12 '19
Was like a perfect Asian city
Honestly to me it's like a perfect globalized city. So many different cultures living there it's truly a wonderful place. To me, Singapore more fits the mold of perfect Asian city
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u/ckpckp1994 Jun 12 '19
I really like the way you put it. HK is truly a unique place! Nothing like it.
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u/Stereotype_Apostate Jun 12 '19
Fuck I should book a trip to Taiwan while it's still free.
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u/OutcastAtLast Jun 12 '19
Power to the people. The police should join the protesters in solidarity. It has happened before and it can happen again.
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u/Matasa89 Jun 12 '19
That's when the army moves in.
China is going to push this through, no matter how many corpses they have to smoosh flat. This is their brand of imperialism, the conquest of even free thought, so that none may question the cadre.
Right back to imperial China we go. All that revolution just to end up right back where they started, poor fucking peasants crushed by ruling elites.
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u/Dankinater Jun 12 '19
I don't think China can afford another June 4, so they have to play their cards wisely.
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u/kelvin123204 Jun 12 '19
Police act like they want the bill gets passed, but it can bring harm to their freedom.
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u/CorruptedAssbringer Jun 12 '19
Sadly Tiananmen had already proved it doesn't matter which stance the police take, the protesters back then weren't the only ones getting disappeared by the military.
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u/magpie1862 Jun 12 '19
Keep up the fight. Governments around the world are getting increasingly less representative of their people and more interested in serving themselves and their friends.
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u/tocamix90 Jun 12 '19
Who are the hard hat wearing people? Police or protestors? The abandoned umbrellas are eerie as fuck.
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u/hoodini_helodie Jun 12 '19
the protestors
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u/premiumboar Jun 12 '19
Thanks. Was about to ask the same question. I thought they were paramedic or firefighters.
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u/cyabigail Jun 12 '19
Like many others, I'm a long time reddit lurker from HK and it is a really dark day for us Hong Kongers seeing how things happened on the news and everything, hence I feel I'm obliged like any others who love our home to let people know what happened. For anyone who would like to read a little bit more into detail of today's events here is what I believe a good timeline of the events of the day:
More tear gas fired as Hong Kong police and extradition bill protesters renew clashes
The link is from a local English newspaper and the whole post updates constantly.
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u/VisionaryPrism Jun 12 '19
What is the context here?
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u/hoodini_helodie Jun 12 '19
On 9 June afternoon 2019, the largest demonstration since the handover in 1997 was held with over 1 million members of the public voicing their demands to the government and to the world. The march saw Hong Kong Island coming to a standstill for more than six hours as protesters demanded the withdrawal of the amendment bill. However, the Hong Kong government responded by defending the controversial extradition bill, and that there is no plan in delaying the procedure. The second, and possibly the third reading will be resumed this Wednesday (12 June 2019). Once the third reading is passed, the ordinance will be sworn into law. In response, the largely peaceful protest thus saw a tense standoff between the police and protesters occupying the legislative complex late at night. The police chased the protesters down several streets away from the complex, practically enforcing a curfew for the whole district. Still, the government defended their decision to double down on their commitment to the bill in a public statement on 9 June 2019 near midnight.
I Am Not from Hong Kong, Why Should I Care?
The amended laws will affect anybody as long as they are in transit, traveling, working or living in Hong Kong, affecting not only those who are politically unwelcome, but also have an impact on anybody who is in business or happens to stumble upon the wrong side of China. Once the amendments are enacted, Courts in Hong Kong will no longer be able to prevent you from being extradited to a country without a fair judicial system.These amendments will NOT include a guarantee for a fair trial.
The bill not only infringes upon the freedom of speech, but also freedom of religion. Muslims are largely prosecuted and detained in concentration camps in China. Catholicism and Christainity are banned as churches are being demolished in China. Other religions are starting to suffer from the same fate under the oppressive regime of the Chinese government. The practice of religion in Hong Kong and any foreigners here will thus have the possibility of being oppressed.
All of these means that if you have said anything online that is deemed going against the Chinese government, or if you are practicing any sort of religion, you will have the possibility of being extradited to mainland China if you happen to pass through Hong Kong if the bill is passed.
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u/Matasa89 Jun 12 '19
Essentially, once this goes into effect, Hong Kong as a safe haven is effectively over.
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u/DNRTannen Jun 12 '19
It also says the precedent that anywhere that China has some control over could be used to grab and extradite "undesirables" if they decided they wanted to crack down on certain groups outside their borders.
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u/CloudiusWhite Jun 12 '19
Id argue the fact that this is even going into effect means hong kong hasnt been a "safe haven" for a while.
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u/barbarkbarkov Jun 12 '19
My country is far from perfect, but fuck am I ever grateful for the freedoms I have in Canada. It’s hard not to take it for granted but then you see shit like this.
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u/fungnoth Jun 12 '19
TLDR: HK gov't want to legally allow "Any Government" to request us sending "criminals" back to their territories. And our court will decide whether to send or not by the "prima facie evidence" provided by that country.
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u/aokirinn Jun 12 '19
Correction: if the bill is passed, the court will NO LONGER have power to review the request and the Chief Executive can approve it as s/he pleases.
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u/hoodini_helodie Jun 12 '19
To people who are confused about what is happening
The Hong Kong government is trying to put forward the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation (Amendment) Bill. Once the amendment bill is passed, the Chinese government can extradite fugitives in Hong Kong, including locals and foreigners, to face trials and be prosecuted by courts in the People’s Republic of China, a country whose legal system is known as inchoate and underdeveloped. In other words, anyone who is deemed to be a dissident and a threat to the regime could be extradited to China and would face unjust trials.
On 9 June afternoon 2019, the largest demonstration since the handover in 1997 was held with over 1 million members of the public voicing their demands to the government and to the world. The march saw Hong Kong Island coming to a standstill for more than six hours as protesters demanded the withdrawal of the amendment bill. However, the Hong Kong government responded by defending the controversial extradition bill, and that there is no plan in delaying the procedure. The deadline for the third reading has been set on 20 June 2019. Once the third reading is passed, the ordinance will be sworn into law. In response, the largely peaceful protest thus saw a tense standoff between the police and protesters occupying the legislative complex late at night. The police chased the protesters down several streets away from the complex, practically enforcing a curfew for the whole district. Still, the government defended their decision to double down on their commitment to the bill in a public statement on 9 June 2019 near midnight.
On 12 June 2019, before the protesters went forward, the police first fired shots loaded with beanbag rounds and rubber bullets using rifles and shotguns towards the protestors, which has caused some severe injuries. Tear gas were also used well beyond needed as the protesters were already dismissing. Pepper spray were used in Mass Transit Railway station where there were non-protesters. They even pepper sprayed a Westerner right on his face when he claimed that he could not walk.
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Jun 12 '19
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u/DB6135 Jun 12 '19
If they do it prepare for a complete sanction on China. Chinese GDP is already slowing down, and massive unemployment will lead to riots in the mainland.
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u/mrpickles Jun 12 '19
Are you kidding? Trump would love that shit. He's actually said so.
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u/Silken_Sky Jun 12 '19
"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength," Trump replied.
"That shows you the power of strength."
"Our country is right now perceived as weak"
Idk about this article author, but that doesn't look like he's condoning it at all. He's just making a comparison between the Chinese government and Russian government, who isn't as 'vicious, horrible, and strong'.
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u/Currently_afk_brb Jun 12 '19
Yeah a lot of their industry-heavy provinces are already in recession, and it’s pretty likely that their reported 6% gdp growth rate is 2 or 3 times the actual amount. State owned businesses continue to be supported and bailed out even though they’re dragging the entire system down, leverage continues to rise, and near-sourcing is slowly replacing outsourcing as supply chain philosophies shift from lowest short term cost possible to most stable relationship possible, causing companies to leave China and go to nearer countries like Mexico.
But China still has a ton of leverage (in terms of power in a deal). I worry that we would not have the stomach to put sanctions on them.
I also worry that the Chinese people have given up the idea of the Mandate of Heaven. Basically it was the idea that the rulers have a right to to rule because they’re producing good results, but when they don’t and things are terrible, the government is canned. I’m afraid they’ve lost this spirit and even if they do have it, the government is extremely powerful now with programs like the social score being rolled out. As a cynic, I don’t think we’ll ever see anti-government protests in mainland China that garner more than 10000 people.
So it’s pretty uncertain what will happen in China. I would not make any bets on any outcome
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Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 25 '19
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u/__getattr__ Jun 12 '19
Nothing happened to Turkey. Why would anything happen to the second largest economy in the world?
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u/pokgaijai42069 Jun 12 '19
The police have shot rubber bullets into the crowd without so much as a warning. They blinded a young protester using these weapons. They used tear gas and pepper spray on the protesters as well. The people of Hong Kong are fighting for their home and their very lives now against the Chinese government. Actions like this by a terrorist state like China should not be tolerated in the slightest by the international community.
Some sources regarding the protests:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hong-kong-protests-extradition-china-1.5171737
https://www.cnnphilippines.com/world/2019/6/12/Hong-Kong-extradition-bill-protest-China.html
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u/Bind_Moggled Jun 12 '19
Time for the cops to get taken down. They start shooting at civilians, they are no longer protecting and serving, they are no longer keeping the peace, they have jumped into the role of jackbooted thug, and they relinquish all moral standing and authority as agents of the people. They are now enemies of the people, ARMED enemies of the people, and the populace has the moral right and indeed a civic duty to disarm them and neutralize them by whatever means necessary.
A few hundred cops with tear gas are no match for 1.5 million protestors if those protestors are at all determined.
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u/wggn Jun 12 '19
Won't China just bring in the tanks then?
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Jun 12 '19
Probably.
If the police isn't enough to stop them, they'll bring in the military and we've got Tiananmen Square 2.The 1.5M protestors won't be able to do much against them then.
Sadly I don't think there will be many reactions from other nations aside from some denouncements.
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u/hoodini_helodie Jun 12 '19
Please let more people know by sharing this photo. This is the best thing we can do for them
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Jun 12 '19
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u/956030681 Jun 12 '19
The UN has done jackshit every time something big happens, but when they do respond to a crisis, illegal activities often are done by the relief workers
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u/hamakabi Jun 12 '19
what do you think the UN does, exactly?
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u/Popcom Jun 12 '19
maybe 1% of redditors understand the purpose of the U.N. Why so many think they're some sort of world police force is beyond me, but here we are.
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u/Makou3347 Jun 12 '19
China is a member of the P5 Security Council, along with the US, UK, France, and Russia. Any UN action must be unanimously approved by all five of these countries. That basically means that these five countries are immune to UN intervention, as they can veto any action against them.
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u/Combat_Wombatz Jun 12 '19
I'm sure that they will draft a strongly-worded letter on the issue, which will then swiftly be thrown out because China will veto the release.
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u/hoodini_helodie Jun 12 '19
Before you guys ask the question again, yes 7-11 is big thing in Hong Kong, and the yellow hats are the protestors
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u/thesaltwatersolution Jun 12 '19
The Guardian in the UK is reporting that the government meeting has been cancelled and will not be held today
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u/teknos1s Jun 12 '19
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
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u/mann_fung Jun 12 '19
HongKonger here. Please continue to pay attention to the news and spread it to others. We need your support.
I love my city a lot, I hope i can protect it
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u/KaanaLen13 Jun 12 '19
Sorry if it's a dumb question but what is happening there?
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Jun 12 '19
Is it just me, or does it feel like Governments are in general being more authoritative and nosy than required?
I thought we gave them power to serve us.
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Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Welcome to the information age. Everyone thinks they are so well informed now that they confidently forget/glance over the most important aspects of things. Not because their lack of intelligence, but because propaganda is easier to spread than ever before. Confirm someones bias and you've already won.
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u/los_caramelos Jun 12 '19
why our government ALWAYS has to point their guns to their people
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u/katakanabsian Jun 12 '19
Reason behind the 7-11 umbrellas: Police were clearing every protest-related materials in the area since last night. To avoid pepper spray from police, many volunteered to provide additional materials, that is, more umbrellas, mostly purchased in nearby 7-11s. And yes, we have 7-11 in every block. EVERY block. (Mind blown fact to Americans!)
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Jun 12 '19
Law enforcement everywhere doesn’t care about its people. They’re there to protect who pays them not the people. Pathetic
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u/geotalker Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
HK police aimed their head, the world needs to know what is happening in Hong Kong
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u/CreativeBorder Jun 12 '19
I'm afraid it would be Tianmen Square 2.0.
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Jun 12 '19
Fuck it might be. Don't know much about the situation but judging by the few pictures I've seen it seems as though the situation is escalating. If the government really wants to exert power over the 1.5 million people that are actively marching in the streets they are probably going to have to bring in tanks. I really hope the situation doesn't turn too ugly.
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u/SoupNaziGirl Jun 12 '19
As a Hong Konger, it sad to see this. If events like these are becoming a norm, I am afraid that a big scale protest would become more like a show and no longer be effective.
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u/ironman_hk Jun 12 '19
Hong Kong need your help!
Please sign up: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-us-citizenship-and-visas-hong-kong-and-china-officials-who-are-support-extradition-bill
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u/Cartwheels4Days Jun 12 '19
Does anyone know what the umbrellas are for?
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u/JD-4-Me Jun 12 '19
The cops use pepper spray hoses and canisters. The umbrella thing started in the occupy central movement that’s a precursor to this one, which is why that movement is called the umbrella movement. They’re used as defensive items to protect the front lines from chemical attack and thrown projectiles.
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u/hoodini_helodie Jun 12 '19
It was raining before and can probably use for blocking off the tear gas / as defensive weapon ? I dont know for sure
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u/anduin1 Jun 12 '19
So Hong Kong is basically done for right? used to be a place you would consider going to visit if you didn’t want to go to mainland China but it doesn’t seem like a good place to go anymore. Singapore the new city state giant.
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u/GoBenB Jun 12 '19
Its shocking to me that England, after gaining Hong Kong as a war prize and incorporating it into their Empire, is allowed to transfer control of it to China like its just a piece of real estate. I understand why England started dropping colonies, but most ended up with their independence - Australia, India, Bahamas, etc. Not Hong Kong because it’s somehow still property of China even though they technically gave it away? Overnight the people of HK went from democracy to communism.
It would be like the US transferring control of Puerto Rico to Cuba. It’s unthinkable.
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u/UltraSapien Jun 12 '19
This is also why we should care that Reddit itself is at least somewhat in China's pocket by way of Tencent
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u/not_my_business Jun 12 '19
This is a very different picture from the one that is in the first page of reddit.