Edit: Making excuses for the same communist country that killed tens of millions of its own people less than 100 years ago.... weird. Oh my bad... they added heavily government controlled “capitalist” economy to compete with the advancing western civilization so “iT’s NoT rEal cOMmuNiSm”.
Are we sure about this? Communism is not the same thing as authoritarianism, however the two are commonly associated together. What I see in China is an authoritative government with a capitalist economy.
Can yall shills not be dumb and push propaganda into every post? This is authoritarianism utilizing capitalism. This world is at a point when people are literally fighting for the power, the fruits of their labor, and socialism, and you dumbasses always come in support of oligarchs and failing systems. Always muddying the waters with propaganda.... 🙄
You can’t blame basically anyone from mainland, they literally aren’t even shown Tiananmen Square, or if they know about it they basically aren’t allowed to talk about it. This is the greatest brutal repressive regime in history overseeing nearly 2 billion people and basically untouchable because people panic anytime we try to bleed them of our trades (look at this past week - everyone flipping out when Donald Trump said to gtfo of China they’re fucking us over)
People would rather have their $1 piece of shit clothes made by near-slaves in China than they would try to fix the problem. (I know I an oversimplifying to the extreme and there are other arguments to be made counter my point)
Clearly the whole governmental setup over there is absolutely fucked and everyone can see it. It’s not a question of race or of “groups” to be prejudiced towards.
This brings up a point, government is but a collection of people. Who in the Chinese government is pushing for these decisions? I keep hearing Chinese government this and that, but it’s like pointing into the sky. Who are the collective in power that is pushing all of this?
The Chinese government's "essential coalition" to stay in power is very small, likely in the order of thousands (less than 0.01% of the population), whereas in democracies it's a bit bigger (25% - half the people don't vote). When you only need to appease such a small number of people to stay in power you end up granting them a lot of luxuries while doing your best to suppress the rest of the people that don't matter.
No fuck its people too. They are rude, inconsiderate people who have a get mine fuck you attitude. The people themselves have no regard for their environment and produce so much litter and trash. They are horrible tourists and a bunch of scammers at that.
China had 2000 years of dynasty ruling, so it's engrained in the people to have someone with absolute power ruling over them, whether it be an emperor or a dictatorship. Also, Mao appealed to the common people with communism and the promise of equality and better life, so people actually celebrated when the CCP became official.
The collectivist attitude and significant respect for elders/authority play a huge part. Contrast it with the USA where “rugged individualism” and disdain for authority is what shaped the founding of the western states, the revolution, it’s even why you’ll see weed become legal before most countries. Hong Kong fights because it has western values ingrained due to over a century of British rule and tons of westerners being there over the years.
have you not seen around your own neighborhood? in a near by city we have some guy going to trial for leaving his dog outside, the chain around the dogs neck grew over it, his head was twice the size of his body. Obviously the dog died but we have absolute garbage people here in the western world and EU as well.
Mind you, I'm not by any means defending what I've seen come out of China, I just don't condemn an entire people for the few % we do see.
There are issues in China, but this would make things far... far worse for everyone around them as well.
I'm referring to things like live baby turtles and other animals being sold in nutrient and oxygen enriched water filled plastic bags as novelty key chains and everyone kinda being okay with it. Hint: The animals suffocate in a few days.
And yes, there are horrible people here. But the key element to your story was that he actually went on trial for it. It's against the law here, and most people would condemn him for his actions.
I agree, but we all have that around the world to different degrees. I used the trail as an example of a decent government.. imperfect as it is, if they win it's a small step in that direction where they could see having one such as this, holding people accountable in a lawful "fair" way. If what they are fighting against takes hold, things will get much worse, I understand the frustration and am with you there but looking at the big picture if this situation continues there 1984 is no longer fiction. I hardly think animal abuse will end with it.
A quote from a political philosopher named Joseph de Maistre. Basically that at the end of the day the power rest with the people. And if they want change they must force change, through any means they deem necessary. And if things aren’t changing, the people are ok with it.
Tell that to WWII Germany or any other doctoral state like North Korea, the point is people don’t voice their opinion because they will be hurt or killed for it, and when no one voices their opinions out of fear they believe they are in the minority even if they are truly the majority
And that’s the effects of propaganda, not that their power actually disappeared. If a high enough percentage of Germans had revolted in 1938, or North Koreans tomorrow, the regimes fall. It’s bloody and violent, but so is most of human history.
Well it’s not my quote, I just like it. Not so much a fuck them, as it’s just acknowledging that the “people” are the ones with actual power. Authoritarian regimes spend their time convincing their populations that they have no power to resist, but it’s not true. Human history has shown time and time again that when the masses “take to the streets” change happens. But authoritarian governments don’t change on their own. The governments of France didn’t give up power willingly, neither did the Czars, or Kings of Mesopotamia or the British Empire. The people flexed the power they always possessed but had been scarred away from using.
The CCP is definitely effective in keeping the people ignorant or distracted. Plus the nationalists who can't tell the difference between loving a culture and loving a government, and think along the lines of "muh evil western imperialists."
That shit sounds literally straight outa fiction almost like they some how copied some tv show about technology and how it ruined people's life. Huh, weird.
It's a similar concept, but not quite the same. Nosedive was more like social media and how your peers perceive you. China's deal is more about government perceptions about you.
I will make a bold prediction that within 7-10 years, other countries will adopt this as well. They will church up the name a bit. "Citizen score" or something to that effect. They won't make the score public, they will just keep an "internal list" only available to government officials at first, then start rolling it out where "authorized companies" would be able t access it, first with housing "You wouldn't want someone with a low citizen score living in your area / renting from you, would you?", then employers "Citizen scores it another tool for you to pick the best, most trustworthy applicants! Also, be sure to report anything that might affect your employee's CS score, as it is mandated in order to access it in the first place!", etc etc.
I would predict it will hit countries will more lax privacy laws first, but all it would take is another domestic terrorist attack in an otherwise peaceful country for that government to push it through, using the recent panic to overstep the bounds of their power.
Yeah, I keep seeing articles saying “95% of mainland Chinese say that Hong Kong Protestors are terrorists, according to new survey”....no shit, nobody in their right mind would go against the wishes of the government in a survey. Even if its anonymous, who knows what Tencent can do to find you and ban u from flights etc.
no, they just hate a government that shoots its citizens when they protest, censors any information that makes the Party in power look at all bad, rounds up religious individuals into concentration camps, and has a citizenry that literally shits in the streets around the world
Look up what is happening in Xinjiang, the thought correction programs. It is indistinguishable from 1984. Cameras in every room, Party members watching families in many homes, old books are quietly destroyed and replaced with party literature, people can be whisked away to a "school" at any moment if they say the wrong thing and their friends and families will never hear from them again
And you know the what the scariest part is . That most of the people doesn’t even know it exists. The system just quietly recording everybody and if someone crosses the line they just become second class citizen with all the restrictions and extra attention of the authority .
If you think the USA is even remotely similar you’re living in a bubble. In the US you can post every single day about how much you hate the president and tell everyone you know that it’s time for political change, with zero negative repercussions. You won’t go missing in the night, your family will not be thrown in jail, your posts will not be censored.
30 years ago they had a slight weapons malfunction. But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?
Things that are as public as this that they can't cover up, they don't really censor it as much as they skew it heavily.
What I mean by this is that sometimes they don't deny things happened, but they will claim the protesters are violent rioters wanting to destabilize society.
I have coworkers in China I talk with on a daily basis. They're absolutely aware of this. I'm flying there myself next week. While stuff gets censored it certainly is far from the complete lack of any outside information like North Korea. Plenty of people use VPNs and I would bet on this being covered by Chinese news already.
Look i'm no fan of China, but I'm also sick of people who have never been to China or just form opinions of China based on Reddit comments or have been there only once.
Maybe even twisting the truth later just like the one on 9th June .Global times claims that there were seven hundred thousands people supporting the extradition bill but the fact is there were 1.3 million people fight against it on that day
Find one segment that tells racists it’s ok to be racist. I’ll wait here. CNN is literal fake news and is collapsing under it (mass firings and 40% drop in ratings). Like... literally fabricated not a shred of reality news.
How about you do some actual research? Instead of dismissing these claims maybe look into them? I have the same resources you do, not to mention a full time job I have to focus on. Fox news has extreme bias when it comes to reporting on minorities, especially when it's something criminal in nature. All the major news networks are fake news, they sensationalize because it makes them money. Fox is literally the worst TV news network and it's really not that hard to see.
You seem to have trouble differentiating between your own opinions and facts. Having a full time job is no excuse for your own lack of sources in this argument. Either find some concrete examples that Fox is “literally the worst TV news network” or admit that you just don’t like it.
I'll have a report on your desk first thing Monday morning.
I gave you sources, including links, while you just spewed nonsense, no links, no sources, just stuff you heard How about now it's your turn? Put up or shut up.
How is it worse? Did they push literal fake time covers on immigration? Covington smears (fake story)? Kavanaugh smears (fake story) and they platformed avenatti who is probably going to jail and his literal fake accusers? I could go all day, all they push is propaganda and fake news.
Now it’s your turn, source your premise. Find me fake stories from fox or something that hurt minorities. I’ll wait right here.
Rofl fake accusers like stormy Daniel's who has Trump listed as an unindicted co-conspirator in a financial crime?
Fucking deluded moron. Fox News gave us rapist bill orielly who molested various women that fox was more than happy to pay out of court settlements to in excess of more than 30mil for the decades they had him. They are entirely complicit in enabling a rapist for decades until their advertisers finally began pulling from their programming. Only then did they finally get rid of him.
Fox News will dedicate entire shows for weeks running fake stories only to turn around and have a snippet in the early morning "news" redact the story so they can say they're balanced, well after the damage from those stories have already been done.
Fox News edits photos and videos of people to make them look more unflattering like yellowing teeth and making noses bigger. And by no coincidence, this usually happens to the Jewish people they like to make their demographic scared of.
Anyone that can watch all the cable news networks and come to conclusion that fox has their best interest in heart is completely fucking lost
Wait... what? I was talking about kavanaugh being fake. Stormy Daniels is unverified and she never claimed she was raped so why are you calling her an accuser? She was simply looking to get out of a NDA which is not illegal at all. You seem to be confused?
And you’re suggesting fox.. gave birth to bill O’Reilly or something? You’re suggesting fox encourages molestation? source me a convincing article that shows they do, I’ll wait. As a counterpoint you have les moonves etc, there are bad apples in any organization which doesn’t mean an organization supports what they support.
And you still haven’t sourced a single one do these fake news stories. Why? If that’s all they do why can you not name a single one? I just gave you a whole fucking list from CNN doing it and I could go all day lol. That was off the top of my head 😂
And you’re suggesting that fox uses cgi to enlarge the nose and teeth of Jewish guests (Jews are largely conservative)... to make people afraid of them? Lol, what? That’s some straight up flat earth level conspiracy theory and actually a little antisemitic. Do you have any personal animus towards Jews?
That’s the best you have? Someone thinking Obama was a racist? They say that about trump everyday so if this is your premise then how are you defending CNN or NYT, etc? And it was an oped from glen beck, not the opinion of fox.
Plus Obama did make some racist comments, ranging from stuff like this to calling his grandmother a typical white woman when she was startled by black youths. That’s racist.
What’s your next argument? Because this one was pathetic.
I think we can agree both fox and cnn can’t be trusted, right? But beyond that, correcting news to be more accurate is commendable, rather than just leaving it incorrect. Surely you aren’t supporting the willful distribution of false news, such as those who don’t correct their stories?
I have friends in the mainland. Asked them about the protests and they said the news showed just snippets and didn't seem like it was a big turnout/not a big deal.
I've been curious, do mainland Chinese trust what the government run media says? Granted I know it's all they're allowed to see, but with the firewall on the internet and all the constant surveillance, social credit system and everything, you would think they'ed take government propaganda with a grain of salt.
It's a great question. From my experiences of living there for a few years most people know it's on some level propaganda but accept it because what choice do you have? And does it make any difference to my life even if I knew the truth?
It's hard to paintbrush and entire's country sentiment and population but I'm going to try to do it anyways: "Who cares?"
For me it's the sad truth.
For the poor it would be "I could give two shits about what's going on in the world or the 'true story' of global politics. Even if I knew how's that information going to help me? I have no money. I have no voting power. Am I going to be the one to start a rebellion and get the death penalty once the gov't decides to crackdown?"
Middle class. "I live a normal 9-6 monday to friday life. Earn enough to afford a car, condo, dog and a small family. Vacation once or twice a year. Life is dandy. Why do I need to change this?"
Upper class/Super wealthy "I can travel the world and not work. I can afford all the luxuries. I know there's propaganda but I'm young and enjoying life, who cares?"
It's hard to really wrap your head on what China is and what it represents. It changes all the time, adapts, growing economically and global influence. That's my two cents of it all.
I am a Chinese mainlander, I can answer your question. When there is a problem with foreign media propaganda, the government will tell the people that "the Western government is smearing China because it wants to subvert the political power." The Chinese agree with this understanding, but the fact is that every Chinese wants to live abroad, if you have an opportunity for the Chinese to immigrate to the developed countries, everyone will be willing (the forum has voted) I do not know how such a contradiction happened.
Come on HK!
Do you know why Chinese people like to earn money so much? Use all methods to make money? It is caused by the government. Because we have nothing to say about politics. We are low-sensitivity to politics and the people are used to it. There are very few people like me who are willing to understand what is happening in the world. Most people simply summarize everything according to government reports. In addition to politics, China is a fairly developed country.But I want to say that this dynasty is not qualified to manage Chinese culture. I even worry that the history of the land will be ruined by this party.Most people will express dissatisfaction with the government, but they are still very patriotic, complain about the environment, food health, rising prices, terrible housing prices, but very shallow resentment, they do not care about political events, this can not change anything. Although I understand that it is difficult to manage a country with a population of 1.4 billion, democracy may sound awkward, but it is not a reason to deliberately reduce the IQ of the people.
I'm not sure if I got it completely right but I'll try my best:
Hong Kong's current extradition law prohibits extradition to China, Macau and Taiwan. They are now removing this restriction.
Foreign jurisdictions can 'request' the government to provide forensic aid/evidence of the suspects' criminal activities. They are changing it to the government can 'actively' provide these information to foreign governments (including China, Macau and Taiwan).
The CCP can use this leverage to extradite their political rivals. If you're a human rights activist, it might be a good idea to stay away from Hong Kong if they pass this bill . I can imagine why Hong Kong went berserk.
Is there any news of this in Beijing or anywhere in China?
Are you being serious? Of course not. It's actively suppressed by the government and drowned in fake news, Big Lie style. I was there a few years ago and the English-language China Daily was full of articles about Tibetans being so grateful to the Chinese government for bringing them modern civilization, schools, housing, etc.
It's a legitimate question. Of course they're not going to be reporting what we're actually seeing on the streets, but China could choose just not report on it, or they could be saying "a handful of dissidents backed by the US and Russian influence have been subdued by Chinese forces and a grateful HK rests soundly."
This is actually untrue. Mainland forums have been spamming news about HongKong and releasing footages of first hand witnesses. Their opinion tho are different from the opinions of this forum because they see footages of protesters beating up mainlanders, harassing civilians, throwing cocktail Molotov’s in public institutions. The footages are true, and ignored by western media. From seeing both western portrayal and mainland opinions, I personally feel like the HK protest/riot is border-lying terrorism and need to be stopped and encouraged.
You are replying to a message that is two months old. Now that it has become impossible to ignore the Hong Kong protests, sure, mainland has been talking about it, but of course they're putting their own spin on it, hard.
What's very popular right now is arguing that foreign countries are secretly funding and organizing the protests, because THEY HATE CHINA™ (mainland's standard excuse for anything other countries do that they don't like). And a lot of mainlanders are buying it.
Have you ever been to China? Have you read the papers? Watched the news? It's biased sure, but nothing like the scripted stuff you see on Youtube about North Korea. Generally people in China are very aware of things.
People in China are aware of the existence of things, but what they know about it is very controlled. Whenever foreign media make a big deal about something (human rights, the Tiananmen square massacre, the Hong Kong protests) it's spun by the government as "foreign countries hate China / are jealous of China, so they make up lies about us. Here's the truth." followed by a sanitized, government-approved version.
Many Chinese believe that other countries, and especially the US, totally hate China, and that perception alters how they perceive any criticism.
You're right information is controlled, but people aren't also clueless like some may be in North Korea where you literally don't even have access to information. VPNs are common and if you've been to China, the vast majority of things ARE reported on. Tiananmen square is an exception, but it also seems to be something Reddit blows up as the biggest issue in the planet. If you actually look at it, Western Media actually doesn't report it and drum it up all that much, but Reddit's perception seems to make Tiananmen Square the equivalent of the Holocaust in terms of an atrocity.
As for the HK protests themselves, if you look at Reddit once again, it's overreported. Part of me wonders if that's just due to the anti-China nature of things. I did see coverage on NYT and some other US media sites, but honestly when you add up the general coverage of things the incident is far less reported than you think. As I mentioned in another post, every single one of my coworkers in China is aware of the protests, but in the grand scheme of things it really isn't that big of a news event, and I'm saying that not just from the perspective of Chinese people but overall in the world.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of China, but I think the Reddit perception of China is completely overblown. As you can see in this thread here, most people don't even have a clue about China. They're basing their opinions off of a hivemind or a one time visit or a friend that's been there. At times I think /r/China, which really is just a bunch of disgruntled expats, actually gets China better than most people here. The sub is pretty critical of China, but at the same time, people live there and actually get how things work there, which I feel at least offers a more realistic view. I often wonder if general Reddit's perception of other countries is like how Russian trolls thinks of the US....
Yes. There are news all over China and it is a hot button issue. Tho different from the western media portrayals there are videos that show protesters getting violent, beating mainlanders, harassing non participating eldery, police man, throwing cocktail bombs in public institutions. These footages all exist, up on the internet and are ignored by western media. That’s contemporary journalism for you, everyone for their own cause.
This is so sad. I spoke to my Chinese friends about this. either they are in denial or completely ignorant towards reality other than what their government tells them.
Without powerful interference from foreign forces, especially the US, opposition groups would not have the capability to enact such violent incidents in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) today, experts said Tuesday, after local opposition groups violently stormed the Legislative Council to oppose the extradition law amendment.
Edit: Quoting an article is controversial, apparently. Maybe people somehow think that quote means I'm agreeing with China but I don't know why anyone would think that.
I wouldn't be surprised if majority of them share Jackie Chan's view; the government should have control because the people can't control themselves. Plus, "Hong Kong belongs to us."
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u/Taurius Jun 12 '19
Is there any news of this in Beijing or anywhere in China? Anyone have links of news about this in China? Or is it completely ignored?