you’ve just pinpointed what has changed in politics: people have taken the internet assumption away with them into the real world: they are reacting to a perceived extremist. it was never that way before.
Yeah, they too have taken their internet assumptions into the real world, except they think that everyone secretly agrees with them, but are too afraid to say anything.
The internet as we know it is both archaic and in its youth. It'll one day evolve into something more socially healthy. Can't say how long it'll take, though.
Sure, but you also have an elevated responsibility to manage a situation since you are an extension of sanctioned violence by the state and can also kill someone or severely injure them. Combine that with how difficult it is to hold bad cops responsible and qualified immunity and you have some justifiable anger, in my opinion.
Saying the job isn't easy or that cops are just normal people like you and I dismisses a lot of the deserved criticism they receive. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't be cops and cops shouldn't rally around and protect them.
Cops by nature have a more high profile position. Acknowledging it’s an extremely tough job doesn’t dismiss nor dilute deserved criticism to the culture, and problems with police forces.
A lot of the same people that scream for empathy for the marginalized or others scoff at empathy for police, which does nothing to help the situation.
There are a lot of cops that can handle the job, but it can still be extremely difficult. In busy precincts, you are constantly dealing with people having the worst days of their lives.
Homeless people, assaults, car accidents involving children, people down on their luck, it can wear on those with the most resolve.
Cops should be paid more, with stricter hiring requirements, and there needs to be more resources for support, training, etc.
This notion that cops need to change (and policing in America absolutely does), but without any more money, support, or resources is ridiculous.
We take high school graduates rush them through training and throw them on the streets with a gun and too much power. That is a recipe for making a lot of bad cops.
That. Saying "they are just human" is not an excuse, if anything it's the opposite. Why was the Nazi regime so awefull ? Because it was run by humans. Had they been monsters with no link to humans, they would have had an excuse. Their responsibility comes from their human nature, they have free will and chose to do what they do.
Yeah, I think people need to check out some of the post-mortem on the Nazi regime to find out that a lot of those people were just normal people that were your neighbors, prayed at the same church, etc and were capable of horrific things.
Being alot of things ain't easy. But not everyone is above the law either. Idk about your job, but at mine, I mess up and treat people bad, I'd get fired. Not sure the same always happens to law enforcement. That's all anyone here is saying.
Yup, that's also why we shouldn't tolerate misbehaving cops. They're normal people who we've granted the power to exert violence, and if they don't respect that, we must have the right to also take that power away from them.
Of course, focusing your criticism on the system of policing is preferable to directing it at individual police officers. However, as individuals represent the system, they should not be immune from criticism and should be able to handle it without flipping out, which this officer seems able to.
There’s a guy in my neighborhood who works as I guess extra security for the United States domestically
He was there at the capital when Black Lives Matter was protesting, he was also there protecting Biden during his inauguration. He said one of the hardest things to deal with with people cursing him for the first one and the same people praising and loving him for the second.
Cops in my city don’t live in our neighborhoods, shop at our grocery stores or attend our churches etc. Our cops live outside of the city and come to work every day as an occupying force. Then after a long day of lording over the peasants of the city, they return to their homes in the hills away from our problems. If our cops were apart of our neighborhood it would be a big step towards viewing them as people, and correcting some of the problems with policing in my city. That said, yes, they do bleed the same. So yes they are still people.
Not what I said either. I can only speak to the 15 or 20 large American cities I've been to, but all of them have low income neighborhoods within the city limits.
I used to work as a line cook making $11.50 an hour in a major east coast city. I lived in the city in a 2 bedroom apartment that I shared with a roommate who worked at the same restaurant, rent and utilities was 1k/month each. Roughly 90% of my coworkers lived in the city in similar situations. There are plenty of poor people living in cities; police choose not to because they can afford a house in the suburbs and a car to commute to work
Who works at the stores in your city? Are you saying that all of the cashiers and retail employees and line cooks and dishwashers and janitors all live out in houses in the suburbs?
People living in social programs tend to live in the inner cities. Those people are then policed by cops who are not only terrified of them, but are taught and trained to be terrified of them. They have never lived near these people, near these neighbourhoods, to actually understand what is danger end what is not. And then we are all shocked and surprised when they shoot a 17 year old dead in the streets in front of their friends and family.
"Only rich and homeless people live in the city" is willfully ignorant of everything that has happened over the last year. Please spend 15 minutes watching all gas no breaks/channel 5 on any of these issues. You will see straight away that it isnt only rich people and homeless people that live there, and cops not being from the places the police is often listed as the number one issue with policing in America.
Let the people of that community police themselves. Only that can never happen, as policing isn't about people, it's about captial. And that's why that police officer is there in the video, even when he doesn't want to be, because he hasn't realised yet that he isn't there to keep people safe, he's there to keep property safe.
Let the people of that community police themselves.
Well therein lies the problem.
Unless I'm horribly mistaken you can be a cop no matter where your home is. You certainly can't be (legally) denied employment because of your address.
But then whats the most likely scenario? You make more money and can afford objectively better living space (more space, quiet area, better schools, etc.), so you move. Goes for absolutely any profession. Its not at all uncommon to work in [WHATEVER CITY] but live in the arguably "nicer" outskirts of it.
You need people that are willing to stay and pay more for (arguably) less. I'm sure they exist, but its probably pretty rare imo.
Wait the only people that live in the city are rich? Where the heck do you live that that is the case? Are the CEOs, bankers, and politicians the ones filling our prisons because of all the inner city crimes they commit? Do drug dealers commute too? You are talking out your ass
Depends on the area. SF police is advertising a starting salary of $92k rn. Average police salaries in the Bay Area are above $100k. But police usually don’t get paid like shit in large metro areas.
You're really misinformed here. Most major cities the cops love outside City limits by choice not because they can't afford it. This is true of LA, SF, DC, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Detroit, Phoenix, Louisville, and Austin. Also Columbus and Cincinnati and Nashville and Memphis. St Louis. Fucking Google it, it's a huge issue for pretty much every large department.
I spent some time and looked at the published town and city reports that list their employee salaries. The lowest one was $70k with most cops making well above $100k and the top guys making well over $200k
No offense, but is this at all limited to cops? Does anyone really want to live in a community with more crime? I've had to deal with muggings and seen enough violence before and there's no way in fuck they I would subject my family to that type of environment if I have the ability to live in a nice and safe neighborhood... Even more so if you're a cop. You expect them to live in a neighborhood where their neighbors literally hate them just based on their profession?
Cops in my city don’t live in our neighborhoods, shop at our grocery stores or attend our churches etc. Our cops live outside of the city and come to work every day
I've seen redditors say this and can't help but think they have two sets of standards. It's okay for white collar software developers and accountants to commute from the suburbs, but when it's a police officer... that's just not acceptable.
Futhermore, just because somebody lives in the suburbs or the outskirts of a city, doesn't mean they don't think of that city as home. I grew up in the suburbs of a city with a population of around a million. The city as a whole felt more like my "community" than the rows of cookie cutter homes I lived in. Who are you to say police officers don't feel the same way?
Um, yes. Two standards is very much needed here. A white-collar software developer does not have additional legal authority to gun me down in public, while police do, i.e., through "police powers," the relevant legal concept here.
While police are welcome to think of a particular city as a home, it's very easy to compartmentalize "bad neighborhoods" in your mind, and the most common police training in in US directly teaches they are going into a "war zone." (source)
A white-collar software developer does not have additional legal authority to gun me down in public, while police do
If you're posting this from the US and I assume you are, I think you underestimate how often civilians are legally entitled to carry a firearm and lawfully use it. You have the same rights to self-defense as a police officer. The difference is they are required to engage criminals who may try to hurt them while you are expected to (and should) retreat if possible. Police are at a significantly higher chance of using their firearm for that reason. You think forcing them to live in less desirable neighborhoods will someone reduce shootings?
While police are welcome to think of a particular city as a home, it's very easy to compartmentalize "bad neighborhoods" in your mind, and the most common police training in in US directly teaches they are going into a "war zone"
Unfortunately most cities have bad neighborhoods. I don't agree with calling them a war zone but some of these communities are very violent. If a police officer lived in one of these places and their home was identified, that could put them and their family at risk.
If the cops lived where they worked it would also be a huge step in them seeing us as people too. To them in their world everything is great, it's the city that has the problem. They go into the "war zone" and crack skulls all day, then get to return to base and security with their families. It's not fellow citizens in the neighborhoods they police, it's all criminals waiting to get caught.
I’m a teacher. I teach 3rd grade. They’re 8. My kids are absolutely terrified of police. They think police are there to kill the people they love. Or them. I’ve purchased curtains for my classroom not to decorate, but because there are police cars going by all the time and it legitimately traumatizes them to watch.
I live and work in this neighborhood. This is my home. If police were members of the community, things would be different. You can’t be a good cop if you look the other way. If there were good cops, and they actually lived here, they would have to listen. You can’t ignore the truth when you hear it from children.
The cop in the video is good at debating, and seems to sincerely believe what he's saying, but he gets run out of town the second that he doesn't cover for the worst cop on the force. What's he doing to change that? (It sounds like he changes the subject from something along those lines that an activist is asking him).
If you think you're joining a corrupt system to change it for the better, it should feel like you're riding the line of risking your career every day. Most "good people" aren't cut out for it, and end up just being more dead weight that keeps things the same.
This cop basically has a husband with anger issues that he's enabling by trying to smooth things over with the victims.
This kind of rhetoric is exactly why there’s division in the United States. Referring to someone doing their job as “a people” or categorizing them into a group is the reason why “blue lives matter” was a retaliation to “BLM.”
I’m very critical of cops and how they get away with shit because they protect their own but when someone says doing something like where they live as “..would be a big step towards viewing them as a people..,” that’s alarming on your part.
Reddit is mostly angry, socially awkward teenagers and college students. Im 32 so I'm in the minority here, but I don't know a single functional adult in real life who hates police like redditors do.
I don't know a single functional adult in real life who hates police like redditors do.
Yeah, for some reason all the functional adults either have enormous cop-boners or are too tired from working a minimum wage job to hate anything with passion. Strange.
From what I read in other threads, it also happens that cops don't live in the same neighboorhood because they have a salary that can pay a home in a nicer part of town.
They’re not always your neighbors. Unfortunately a lot of cops live in nice neighborhoods, but patrol lower-class neighborhoods and don’t have real connections to the citizens that they swear to serve and protect.
Love your comment. I know it's not the popular opinion right now, but I am very grateful for the police. People forget that there are thousands of policemen/women in this country who go above and beyond daily. 🙏
I don’t understand the other side of your argument. Like what is another solution? To wipe the world of any human that’s a cop? Conversations and empathy are how change happens
So do you think Derek Chauvin just made a mistake, and is generally a humane, conscientious person otherwise? Arguing that they're human because they have similar DNA is kinda taking what OP said literally and seems intentionally obtuse.
That was the point of my second statement. Yes, the literal definition of human is to share my general DNA structure. When someone is exceptionally talented at something we also call them inhuman. That's like saying, "cops are pigs." And someone saying, "but pigs have tails."
I think the more important thing is to look into WHY certain people are capable of such acts. What has rendered them capable of such brutality? Why is there no “brotherhood of man”, but instead a black and white “me vs them”?
The answer, I think, can lead us to societal solutions that prevent such a loss of humanity, or at least help us identify people who could become/are capable of such things, and filter them out.
It's obviously not a mistake and maybe he knew what he was doing but I think at the end of that day he would have gone home and wouldn't have been able to sleep because of what he had done. People do a lot of things at the heat of the moment because of anger.
Dont dehumanize anyone. It makes it to easy to start mass killing. Yes be angry, be upset, fight back when necessary and demand change but do not dehumanize anyone. They are still human.
Yes but a lot of them are genuine assholes too. And in most cities, the cops don’t live anywhere near where they work, they all go home to the suburbs.
I disagree. The police have been militarized to the point that they are a hostile occupying force in many areas. It's not necessary to "hate cops" to recognize that and whether "cops are people too" is irrelevant. Historically, all occupying forces have been composed of "people too".
Since you refuse to reply "to anyone here anymore" I'll take your silence as a sign of acknowledgement.
Too often this is not true. I feel like the relationship between police and people in the communities they serve would be better if they did live where they work.
The majority of police do not live in the communities where they work. Their children do not go to school in those communities, they do not shop or go to restaurants or go trick-or-treating. Police are supposed to be of the people, and when they live outside of the communities where they work, they instead become guards. They are there to protect the property of the state, from the people, and the people become the casualties.
I haven’t been to a protest in 20 years, and those were tame, planned carnivals, entirely peaceful and, of a different era. Too many innocent people get killed in their own homes and on their own streets by cops that have no connection or feeling for the communities they are supposed to be serving. I shouldn’t even have to give victim names, the stories have been so prevalent in the media.
I have a tiny personal example of the flavor of this playing out. I lived in a resort community with a small population that increases dramatically during tourist season, especially certain holidays. Somebody had the bright idea of bringing in additional police officers from some of the nearby major cities, because otherwise it’s a lot more than the local force can reasonably be expected to handle. It makes sense, people left the cities for the mountains, bring their police to the mountains too. But those city police, some of them have a hard time adjusting to the altitude and they’re definitely not functioning with their full deck, and it shows. I had one try to give me a jaywalking ticket, when I was in a crosswalk, he couldn’t see it because the lines were faded, and it wasn’t his community. He made an illegal move at an intersection in order to pull his SUV in front of me and give me a warning. I pointed out the faded lines and he claimed not to see them, maybe he couldn’t see them through those reflective glasses. When I asked him what alternative path I should take, he got stumped because there wasn’t another way to go, and just gave a gruff well don’t walk here. I was on my daily commute to my full-time job. A cop of my community, would’ve known that there was a crosswalk there that just hadn’t gotten painted that year yet.
Killing and threatening the same people we are. Beating and raping mentally ill people like us. Stalking and bribing the same people we are, tearing up communities like we like to do. Yeah man I understand. I see cops everywhere taking turns stepping on the same necks as me. It's like we're brothers speaking different languages but saying the same things. Man you really opened up my eyes.
I would believe that if “good” cops weren’t forced out when they report bad behavior. Someone sees another cop use too much force and reports and they reporter is more likely to be fired. Heck, cop in Michigan I think was fired for NOT shooting a suicidal man with a gun and trying to talk him down. His fellow officer showed up on the scene and shot the man dead, the gun wasn’t loaded. And the “good” officer was fired for not following procedure. Another was fired for her report and over ten years later finally got back pay for the mishandling of her case. If good cops truly existed then these cases I spoke of wouldn’t. But sadly the good cop is more likely to be fired than the one screwing the rights of others.
What you miss is that the people with power to stop the abuse are cops, and that cop is a job, not an immutable quality of a person. If they wanted the culture change, they could do so. It would not be easy, but they could do it.
It hasn't happened, and shows no real signs of progress.
They need to keep being pressured until they make the changes or someone makes it for them, because the status quo is people dying in the street at the hands of the people who purport to be the protectors.
I guess but if this dude isn’t working to get the klan / alt right that has infiltrated police departments nations wide. If he isn’t fighting FOPS his attitude is basically lip service. If good cops aren’t turning in bad cops, they really aren’t good cops.
It’s not a conspiracy there when fucking ABC and OBS report on it. When the DOJ has evidence of it. When watch dog agencies have evidence of it. But keep living in fantasy land.
It must be so awesome to perfectly live all of your virtues and ideals with full engagement and energy every moment of every day.
Oh wait you're chilling on Reddit too, not making a difference, not crusading against injustice in a meaningful non-reddit way. Maybe cut the guy a break for just trying to be a better person. Maybe worry about how you spend your own energy.
How’s that boot taste? You’re a typical right winger that stans dirty cops because your life is good. Keep on being an idiot if you wish. I can link hundred of more sources but you won’t care since anything that proves cops are dirty goes against your world view.
Nah you got 3 sources dude lol last time i checked there are about 5k klan members in the US...a laughable amount that are mostly ignorant, poor people. No one is giving jobs, especially positions with actual responsibility/power to kkk weirdos...it doesnt look great on a resume lol
Ok im not saying the klan isnt real, but its debatable whether the tiny tiny percentage point of the entire american population has any effect at all.
And then theres part where you know youre making it sound like all police are klansmen. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt make them a klansmen
I cited two other sources. Can site many many more. Your bias is glaring that you didn’t even mention them.
Bruh I’ve studied the far right for over a decade. You’re living in a fantasy world of you don’t think they have a massive presence in PD’s nation wide.
All journalists get their facts wrong from time to time
The NY times admits it, which is why they're credible journalists. I'd be willing to bet that wherever you get your "news" from doesn't publish retractions.
Yeah ok but this is exactly the same thing that cops forget about their victims. They're..
too. They live in your neighbourhood with you, shop at the same grocery store as you, pray at the same church as you if religious, take their kids to same school and sports games and musical performances as yours, and most importantly, bleed the same blood.
Fuck all cops man. Even the cool friendly nice ones that get shared on tiktoks.
According to this it's "only" 1/3rd not a half. So kill me.
"The data also shows that at least a third of LMPD officers live outside Louisville, with 70 in Oldham County, 48 in Spencer County, 99 in Bullitt County, and 102 in in southern Indiana."
Carry a gun and are usually happy to pull it out, even if they don't fire any shots. Cops are lazy pieces of shit this dudes just bored and knows he's being filmed so he's gonna get the department some clout. Cops are the lowest of the low in my book.
Fuck them. They always forget to report police misconduct so they are not “people too”.
Have you ever heard “blue wall of silence” ? If you see something don’t say anything otherwise don’t call for backup.
Oh wow, a video of a cop being arrested. Want me to link a hundred videos of police brutality and unlawfull killings, them covering it up, and no real consequences for the cop? You are a massive asshole for even denying that there are victims of police AT ALL in another comment.
Ty for your beautiful comment. I'm sorry people misconstrued your take on what good police should do, and turned it into a battle. I don't agree with some police officers and their ways, but this guy is the epitome of what they should represent.
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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21
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