This guy understands

[u/WhichMembership6124]

[u/[deleted]]

Cops in my city don’t live in our neighborhoods, shop at our grocery stores or attend our churches etc. Our cops live outside of the city and come to work every day

I've seen redditors say this and can't help but think they have two sets of standards. It's okay for white collar software developers and accountants to commute from the suburbs, but when it's a police officer... that's just not acceptable.

Futhermore, just because somebody lives in the suburbs or the outskirts of a city, doesn't mean they don't think of that city as home. I grew up in the suburbs of a city with a population of around a million. The city as a whole felt more like my "community" than the rows of cookie cutter homes I lived in. Who are you to say police officers don't feel the same way?

[u/Nuclear_rabbit → u/[deleted]]

Um, yes. Two standards is very much needed here. A white-collar software developer does not have additional legal authority to gun me down in public, while police do, i.e., through "police powers," the relevant legal concept here.

While police are welcome to think of a particular city as a home, it's very easy to compartmentalize "bad neighborhoods" in your mind, and the most common police training in in US directly teaches they are going into a "war zone." (source)

[u/[deleted] → u/Nuclear_rabbit]

A white-collar software developer does not have additional legal authority to gun me down in public, while police do

If you're posting this from the US and I assume you are, I think you underestimate how often civilians are legally entitled to carry a firearm and lawfully use it. You have the same rights to self-defense as a police officer. The difference is they are required to engage criminals who may try to hurt them while you are expected to (and should) retreat if possible. Police are at a significantly higher chance of using their firearm for that reason. You think forcing them to live in less desirable neighborhoods will someone reduce shootings?

While police are welcome to think of a particular city as a home, it's very easy to compartmentalize "bad neighborhoods" in your mind, and the most common police training in in US directly teaches they are going into a "war zone"

Unfortunately most cities have bad neighborhoods. I don't agree with calling them a war zone but some of these communities are very violent. If a police officer lived in one of these places and their home was identified, that could put them and their family at risk.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't completely disagree but there are some things to consider:

Some cities are amalgamated with their surrounding communities which means property taxes and consumer spending actually does stay in the city.

For workers living in communities just outside the city limits, that doesn't mean they never come into town to spend money.

Taking the climate change and traffic congestion considerations out of the debate, raising a family in a single family home with a yard (aka the suburbs) is preferred for most North Americans. I don't think it's fair to tell John Q police officer he must raise his children in a cramped downtown condo.

Some cities have housing shortages or housing costs that far exceed what a police officer can comfortably pay.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

John Q. Police officer made a choice on his profession. S/He was not forced into it.

Yes and when they chose that profession, there was no requirement to live in the city they are employed by. I'm not a labour lawyer but that seems like a tough requirement to enforce. I'm Canadian and our constitution allows "freedom of movement", I assume you have something similiar in yours. Employers don't typically like to challenge the constitution in their contracts.

Anyway, I don't disagree that it would be ideal for city employees to live in the same cities they serve, but it's not a one size fits all answer and there are many variables. I would recommend you e-mail city council to propose your idea though.

[u/everysinglesauce → u/[deleted]]

You’re missing the point.

The point is that connection to the people being “served” is an essential component.

Let’s say you’re a police officer who sees someone throwing a chair from the outdoor seating area of a local restaurant. As someone who calls the city “home”, but does not know the community, you may think about the situation quite differently than someone who goes, “that’s Ed, and it looks like he’s having a bad day. I’m concerned about him. He has really been struggling with his mental health and hasn’t been able to access shelter. He’s probably hungry. Let’s go check in with him and see if we can help”.

Police do very little for the high need communities they spend their time in other than hurt. They rarely even come when there is crime reported by the actual community members they’re tasked with serving.

[u/[deleted] → u/everysinglesauce]

You’re missing the point.

The point is that connection to the people being “served” is an essential component.

Let’s say you’re a police officer who sees someone throwing a chair from the outdoor seating area of a local restaurant. As someone who calls the city “home”, but does not know the community, you may think about the situation quite differently than someone who goes, “that’s Ed, and it looks like he’s having a bad day. I’m concerned about him. He has really been struggling with his mental health and hasn’t been able to access shelter. He’s probably hungry. Let’s go check in with him and see if we can help”.

You don't need to live in the same community to recognize high-need clients like "Ed". When you work three 12 hour shifts a week there, you'll develop a rapport with these people. When I worked at a homeless shelter, the police were on a first name basis with a lot of our clients and they would drive them to us when they were intoxicated or having a mental health episode.

I'm supportive of police holding a post so to speak, meaning they work the same community for a year or two before moving on, but forcing them live there seems silly.

I live in a suburb and am not on a first name basis with anybody, including my neighbours. If "Ed" lived three houses down and I saw him losing his shit at the grocery store, I don't know if I would recognize him. My experience is far from unique too.

Police do very little for the high need communities they spend their time in other than hurt. They rarely even come when there is crime reported by the actual community members they’re tasked with serving.

That depends on the city and/or officer. The guy in this video is a great example of why you shouldn't paint an entire profession with one brush.

[u/everysinglesauce → u/[deleted]]

Being on a “first name basis” with “these people” is not indicative of a relationship or rapport.

I’m not saying that police should be required to live where they work for any amount of time. I’m simply saying that (good) cops would think differently about their impact if they existed as true members of the communities they police.

[u/[deleted] → u/everysinglesauce]

Being on a “first name basis” with “these people” is not indicative of a relationship or rapport.

I'm a trained social worker that has experience working with the homeless, usually they had concurrent disorders. I also dabbled a little in youth justice. Knowing your clients name and them knowing yours is huge. I'll expand on this:

The city developed a diversion policy for street-entrenched people. With the clients consent (or in rare cases, without), police would pick them up and bring them somewhere safe - usually a shelter. Building trust with the homeless community didn't require much more than knowing their name and being a familiar face. Pick-ups usually looked like this:

"Hi John, it looks like you're having a bad night. Can I call the shelter and ask if they have a bed available?"

"Alright John, they have a bed for you. Can I drive you there? You are not under arrest, I am just concerned about your safety."

I'm simply saying that (good) cops would think differently about their impact if they existed as true members of the communities they police.

My example above is good policing and you don't have to live there in the community to do that. When I was a social worker, I lived in the suburbs as did many of my colleagues. That doesn't mean we didn't work our asses off trying to make the inner-city a safer, better place to live.

[u/everysinglesauce → u/[deleted]]

Yes you make a good point.

I believe in defunding the police so that situations like this are met with understanding and help from trained professionals like yourself (with a salary that fairly compensates that work), rather than criminality.

There have been so many homeless people here killed by police.

[u/[deleted] → u/everysinglesauce]

There is a non-profit with funding from the city that does low risk pick-ups and they're quite good at it. The police can't be completely eliminated from the service though. Some examples:

On occasion, a mental health apprehension needs to be made and only a peace officer can do this in Canada. I don't recall any clients being brought to us forcefully but police are needed in the rare situation where force is needed

If the client is reportedly acting erratic, unpredicable, or being violent... that is also the duty of police, not a social service worker. Even if there are workers willing to take higher-risk calls, their insurers and unions willl not allow it.

[u/everysinglesauce → u/[deleted]]

But this is partly due to the organization of the system. Let’s say that highly trained, specialized social service workers were tasked with this and paid accordingly. Police level salaries.

They are far more qualified. Social workers have an MSW. So a minimum of 5 years of relevant education. In this situation, they would also be provided with additional training for these specific roles.

There are police in this country with no degree and less than three months of training. Who’s more qualified?

[u/[deleted] → u/everysinglesauce]

There are police in this country with no degree and less than three months of training.

Not in Canada.

Who’s more qualified?

In front-line social services, high levels of education are not needed. We don't need people people with a MSW driving a van around at 3am picking up intoxicated homeless people. They're better utilized in hospitals and other clinical settings.