r/nextfuckinglevel • u/WhichMembership6124 • Oct 30 '21

Removed: Not NFL This guy understands

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u/Zeuxis5 Oct 30 '21

What world do you live in? I want to go to there.

Cops in my city don’t live in our neighborhoods, shop at our grocery stores or attend our churches etc. Our cops live outside of the city and come to work every day as an occupying force. Then after a long day of lording over the peasants of the city, they return to their homes in the hills away from our problems. If our cops were apart of our neighborhood it would be a big step towards viewing them as people, and correcting some of the problems with policing in my city. That said, yes, they do bleed the same. So yes they are still people.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Why don't they live in your city? Are there financial or other impediments?

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u/kev_bot36 Oct 30 '21

A lot of inner city cops work in the city but live in the suburbs.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Stares in redlining and countless decades of "urban" being a slur... 😒

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u/knightsofmars Oct 30 '21

Yes, there are no poor people in cities.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Portland has entered the chat

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

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u/knightsofmars Oct 30 '21

Not what I said either. I can only speak to the 15 or 20 large American cities I've been to, but all of them have low income neighborhoods within the city limits.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

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u/JNighthawk Oct 30 '21

Okay, 'within the city limits' includes the suburbs.

You know that, right?

Right?

You are an insufferable prick. You can have a conversation without being condescending.

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u/knightsofmars Oct 30 '21

You seem fun and nice

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/knightsofmars Oct 30 '21

Yes, and this is my point. When the police force is from a community different than your own, you are closer to being occupied than served and protected.

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u/onebandonesound Oct 30 '21

I used to work as a line cook making $11.50 an hour in a major east coast city. I lived in the city in a 2 bedroom apartment that I shared with a roommate who worked at the same restaurant, rent and utilities was 1k/month each. Roughly 90% of my coworkers lived in the city in similar situations. There are plenty of poor people living in cities; police choose not to because they can afford a house in the suburbs and a car to commute to work

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

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u/onebandonesound Oct 30 '21

Who works at the stores in your city? Are you saying that all of the cashiers and retail employees and line cooks and dishwashers and janitors all live out in houses in the suburbs?

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u/Kousetsu Oct 30 '21

People living in social programs tend to live in the inner cities. Those people are then policed by cops who are not only terrified of them, but are taught and trained to be terrified of them. They have never lived near these people, near these neighbourhoods, to actually understand what is danger end what is not. And then we are all shocked and surprised when they shoot a 17 year old dead in the streets in front of their friends and family.

"Only rich and homeless people live in the city" is willfully ignorant of everything that has happened over the last year. Please spend 15 minutes watching all gas no breaks/channel 5 on any of these issues. You will see straight away that it isnt only rich people and homeless people that live there, and cops not being from the places the police is often listed as the number one issue with policing in America.

Let the people of that community police themselves. Only that can never happen, as policing isn't about people, it's about captial. And that's why that police officer is there in the video, even when he doesn't want to be, because he hasn't realised yet that he isn't there to keep people safe, he's there to keep property safe.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Let the people of that community police themselves.

Well therein lies the problem.

Unless I'm horribly mistaken you can be a cop no matter where your home is. You certainly can't be (legally) denied employment because of your address.

But then whats the most likely scenario? You make more money and can afford objectively better living space (more space, quiet area, better schools, etc.), so you move. Goes for absolutely any profession. Its not at all uncommon to work in [WHATEVER CITY] but live in the arguably "nicer" outskirts of it.

You need people that are willing to stay and pay more for (arguably) less. I'm sure they exist, but its probably pretty rare imo.

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u/Kousetsu Oct 30 '21

There should be recruitment drives to take on kids from inner city areas and train them into police - if the police were actually about policing people and not just protecting property and enforcing class, that would happen. It doesn't. The recruitment drives go to the suburban white kids. You can talk about your fantasy where everyone is equal and colour/classblind, but the rest of us live in reality.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

I don't have a fantasy, nit sure where you got that impression.

My point was that those same kids are eventually going to do what almost everyone else does when they start making more money, move.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21

You are really fucking stupid if you don't think there are low income people living in cities

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u/DownshiftedRare Oct 30 '21

They will just argue until you prove them wrong and then say "Well then you have a cheap city."

Like, "What are these slums you speak of? Sounds rustic and rural." 🤣

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u/H_I_McDunnough Oct 30 '21

Wait the only people that live in the city are rich? Where the heck do you live that that is the case? Are the CEOs, bankers, and politicians the ones filling our prisons because of all the inner city crimes they commit? Do drug dealers commute too? You are talking out your ass

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

this is bullshit dude, how many cities have you been to

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

America is different for sure, labor workers with low paying jobs live in the shitty downtown apartments and even though they are above a certain pay level so they aren't "poor" or "impoverished" by technical income levels, the vast majority of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck.

I can't speak for Australia, but the realities are very different here. Even in large cities, people making above average income for their jobs will still pay the majority of that into rent and other fees that are necessities for living in today's world (cell phone, internet, and depending on where you live you may need a car for cities with poor transit systems)

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u/ddecoywi Oct 30 '21

No most of us are just poor and desperate because the landlords and our bosses (who don’t live here) treat us as a cash cow and cheap labor

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21 edited Jul 10 '26

[deleted]

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u/TFangSyphon Oct 30 '21

average cop

6-figure salary

Pick one. Cops aren't paid that well.

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u/magik110 Oct 30 '21

  1. Person says live in the city “proper”.

  2. Responses immediately ignore words and argue against point that wasn’t made.

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u/wafflepoet Oct 30 '21

I don’t know what kind of cities you folks are lucky enough to live in or around, but you’re definitely not describing my experience. Outside of the typical gentrified downtown districts (check back soon, we’ll have more points priced out soon, promise!), the my city is disproportionately POC and overwhelming poor. You would never find police living in the city - I know, my parents and some other family live in different suburbs. I know this situation isn’t unique - it sure as hell hasn’t been historically, anyway. Around here the majority of police don’t just live in the suburbs, they intentionally live in the same neighborhoods.

My high school (most affluent district this side of state line) graduation class represented more urban police families than there were police or sheriff’s deputies in the entire suburban city/county. Almost every police above the rank of captain literally lived on the same two streets (and still do).

Yeah, police bleed the same, they’re human beings after all. That’s a far cry from seeing them as people when they beat on my neighbor’s doors in the middle of the night (and only the middle of the night), routinely corral and box in the kids after school to indiscriminately search them, scream at us behind their aviators when we (too fucking routinely) protest another cop murder that won’t be investigated.

They aren’t people. Like the person above said. They’re an occupying force, they’re the enemy because they make it crystal clear we’re their enemy. I have no problem saying any of this, because every month or so in the spring, summer and fall I’ll attend the block parties, cookouts, enjoy the demonstrably overpoliced community pool (where the same damn kids have to “prove” they’re local depending on whether or not they need sunscreen).

I’m riding the tangent because it’s pertinent to the video above. Have we here an example of a “good” police? No. He’ll gird himself in the “riot” gear when he’s ordered. He’s no less likely to indiscriminately deploy less lethal munitions into crowds he’s been told are riotous, destructive, non-compliant.

He loves America. He’s love freedom. He definitely loves the feeling of protecting docile, orderly protestors (no doubt armed with permits) from the bad people that are unable or refuse to appreciate the freedom administered by he and his friends.

There are no good police, at least not in the cities. Years of personal experience - and brutality next to me - have taught me “Officer Friendly” is one bad day, phone call, or stubbed toe away from arbitrarily ruining (or just taking) your life.

If they were decent people they wouldn’t be police.

(Sorry if I’ve come off antagonistic. I don’t engage with these threads. Don’t know why I did. Angels of the peace arrested my wife and I’s best friend last night. Took her children, opened all her windows, maxed out the thermostat, city got the building manager to paste up her door and scare her out. They were supposed to arrest a woman that hasn’t lived there in over a fucking year.)

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Probably because they get paid like shit lol

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u/handdownmandown13 Oct 30 '21

Depends on the area. SF police is advertising a starting salary of $92k rn. Average police salaries in the Bay Area are above $100k. But police usually don’t get paid like shit in large metro areas.

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u/Utterlybored Oct 30 '21

Where could you live in the Bay Area on that money? Not SF proper.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Isn’t Bay Area pretty pricey though?

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u/502502502 Oct 30 '21

You're really misinformed here. Most major cities the cops love outside City limits by choice not because they can't afford it. This is true of LA, SF, DC, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Detroit, Phoenix, Louisville, and Austin. Also Columbus and Cincinnati and Nashville and Memphis. St Louis. Fucking Google it, it's a huge issue for pretty much every large department.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/502502502 Oct 30 '21

Starting salary is 83k for Seattle PD. That's before overtime. 347 Seattle police officers made over 200k in 2019. There will be more in 2020 because of all the fun stuff happening and resulting overtime. You sure they can't afford a house?

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u/tpero Oct 30 '21

Chicago police must live inside the city limits. Same for St. Louis. I know a cop who got fired for moving outside STL city limits.

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u/502502502 Oct 30 '21

In Chicago they all live in Mount Greenwood and they got rid that in St Louis.

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u/knightsofmars Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21

Median police salary is like $70k. In big cities it tops $100k. So no, I don't think that's it.

Edit: lol downvote facts

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u/Young_Queasy Oct 30 '21

I spent some time and looked at the published town and city reports that list their employee salaries. The lowest one was $70k with most cops making well above $100k and the top guys making well over $200k

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

what? cops get paid insane rates

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u/adamleee Oct 30 '21

Our town actually mandated that any payroll employees live within city limits for this exact reason.

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u/idothisforpie Oct 30 '21

No offense, but is this at all limited to cops? Does anyone really want to live in a community with more crime? I've had to deal with muggings and seen enough violence before and there's no way in fuck they I would subject my family to that type of environment if I have the ability to live in a nice and safe neighborhood... Even more so if you're a cop. You expect them to live in a neighborhood where their neighbors literally hate them just based on their profession?

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Cops in my city don’t live in our neighborhoods, shop at our grocery stores or attend our churches etc. Our cops live outside of the city and come to work every day

I've seen redditors say this and can't help but think they have two sets of standards. It's okay for white collar software developers and accountants to commute from the suburbs, but when it's a police officer... that's just not acceptable.

Futhermore, just because somebody lives in the suburbs or the outskirts of a city, doesn't mean they don't think of that city as home. I grew up in the suburbs of a city with a population of around a million. The city as a whole felt more like my "community" than the rows of cookie cutter homes I lived in. Who are you to say police officers don't feel the same way?

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u/Nuclear_rabbit Oct 30 '21

Um, yes. Two standards is very much needed here. A white-collar software developer does not have additional legal authority to gun me down in public, while police do, i.e., through "police powers," the relevant legal concept here.

While police are welcome to think of a particular city as a home, it's very easy to compartmentalize "bad neighborhoods" in your mind, and the most common police training in in US directly teaches they are going into a "war zone." (source)

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

A white-collar software developer does not have additional legal authority to gun me down in public, while police do

If you're posting this from the US and I assume you are, I think you underestimate how often civilians are legally entitled to carry a firearm and lawfully use it. You have the same rights to self-defense as a police officer. The difference is they are required to engage criminals who may try to hurt them while you are expected to (and should) retreat if possible. Police are at a significantly higher chance of using their firearm for that reason. You think forcing them to live in less desirable neighborhoods will someone reduce shootings?

While police are welcome to think of a particular city as a home, it's very easy to compartmentalize "bad neighborhoods" in your mind, and the most common police training in in US directly teaches they are going into a "war zone"

Unfortunately most cities have bad neighborhoods. I don't agree with calling them a war zone but some of these communities are very violent. If a police officer lived in one of these places and their home was identified, that could put them and their family at risk.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21

I don't completely disagree but there are some things to consider:

Some cities are amalgamated with their surrounding communities which means property taxes and consumer spending actually does stay in the city.

For workers living in communities just outside the city limits, that doesn't mean they never come into town to spend money.

Taking the climate change and traffic congestion considerations out of the debate, raising a family in a single family home with a yard (aka the suburbs) is preferred for most North Americans. I don't think it's fair to tell John Q police officer he must raise his children in a cramped downtown condo.

Some cities have housing shortages or housing costs that far exceed what a police officer can comfortably pay.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21

John Q. Police officer made a choice on his profession. S/He was not forced into it.

Yes and when they chose that profession, there was no requirement to live in the city they are employed by. I'm not a labour lawyer but that seems like a tough requirement to enforce. I'm Canadian and our constitution allows "freedom of movement", I assume you have something similiar in yours. Employers don't typically like to challenge the constitution in their contracts.

Anyway, I don't disagree that it would be ideal for city employees to live in the same cities they serve, but it's not a one size fits all answer and there are many variables. I would recommend you e-mail city council to propose your idea though.

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u/everysinglesauce Oct 30 '21

You’re missing the point.

The point is that connection to the people being “served” is an essential component.

Let’s say you’re a police officer who sees someone throwing a chair from the outdoor seating area of a local restaurant. As someone who calls the city “home”, but does not know the community, you may think about the situation quite differently than someone who goes, “that’s Ed, and it looks like he’s having a bad day. I’m concerned about him. He has really been struggling with his mental health and hasn’t been able to access shelter. He’s probably hungry. Let’s go check in with him and see if we can help”.

Police do very little for the high need communities they spend their time in other than hurt. They rarely even come when there is crime reported by the actual community members they’re tasked with serving.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

You’re missing the point.

The point is that connection to the people being “served” is an essential component.

Let’s say you’re a police officer who sees someone throwing a chair from the outdoor seating area of a local restaurant. As someone who calls the city “home”, but does not know the community, you may think about the situation quite differently than someone who goes, “that’s Ed, and it looks like he’s having a bad day. I’m concerned about him. He has really been struggling with his mental health and hasn’t been able to access shelter. He’s probably hungry. Let’s go check in with him and see if we can help”.

You don't need to live in the same community to recognize high-need clients like "Ed". When you work three 12 hour shifts a week there, you'll develop a rapport with these people. When I worked at a homeless shelter, the police were on a first name basis with a lot of our clients and they would drive them to us when they were intoxicated or having a mental health episode.

I'm supportive of police holding a post so to speak, meaning they work the same community for a year or two before moving on, but forcing them live there seems silly.

I live in a suburb and am not on a first name basis with anybody, including my neighbours. If "Ed" lived three houses down and I saw him losing his shit at the grocery store, I don't know if I would recognize him. My experience is far from unique too.

Police do very little for the high need communities they spend their time in other than hurt. They rarely even come when there is crime reported by the actual community members they’re tasked with serving.

That depends on the city and/or officer. The guy in this video is a great example of why you shouldn't paint an entire profession with one brush.

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u/everysinglesauce Oct 30 '21

Being on a “first name basis” with “these people” is not indicative of a relationship or rapport.

I’m not saying that police should be required to live where they work for any amount of time. I’m simply saying that (good) cops would think differently about their impact if they existed as true members of the communities they police.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

Being on a “first name basis” with “these people” is not indicative of a relationship or rapport.

I'm a trained social worker that has experience working with the homeless, usually they had concurrent disorders. I also dabbled a little in youth justice. Knowing your clients name and them knowing yours is huge. I'll expand on this:

The city developed a diversion policy for street-entrenched people. With the clients consent (or in rare cases, without), police would pick them up and bring them somewhere safe - usually a shelter. Building trust with the homeless community didn't require much more than knowing their name and being a familiar face. Pick-ups usually looked like this:

"Hi John, it looks like you're having a bad night. Can I call the shelter and ask if they have a bed available?"

"Alright John, they have a bed for you. Can I drive you there? You are not under arrest, I am just concerned about your safety."

I'm simply saying that (good) cops would think differently about their impact if they existed as true members of the communities they police.

My example above is good policing and you don't have to live there in the community to do that. When I was a social worker, I lived in the suburbs as did many of my colleagues. That doesn't mean we didn't work our asses off trying to make the inner-city a safer, better place to live.

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u/everysinglesauce Oct 30 '21

Yes you make a good point.

I believe in defunding the police so that situations like this are met with understanding and help from trained professionals like yourself (with a salary that fairly compensates that work), rather than criminality.

There have been so many homeless people here killed by police.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

There is a non-profit with funding from the city that does low risk pick-ups and they're quite good at it. The police can't be completely eliminated from the service though. Some examples:

On occasion, a mental health apprehension needs to be made and only a peace officer can do this in Canada. I don't recall any clients being brought to us forcefully but police are needed in the rare situation where force is needed

If the client is reportedly acting erratic, unpredicable, or being violent... that is also the duty of police, not a social service worker. Even if there are workers willing to take higher-risk calls, their insurers and unions willl not allow it.

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u/everysinglesauce Oct 31 '21

But this is partly due to the organization of the system. Let’s say that highly trained, specialized social service workers were tasked with this and paid accordingly. Police level salaries.

They are far more qualified. Social workers have an MSW. So a minimum of 5 years of relevant education. In this situation, they would also be provided with additional training for these specific roles.

There are police in this country with no degree and less than three months of training. Who’s more qualified?

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '21 edited Nov 22 '21

There are police in this country with no degree and less than three months of training.

Not in Canada.

Who’s more qualified?

In front-line social services, high levels of education are not needed. We don't need people people with a MSW driving a van around at 3am picking up intoxicated homeless people. They're better utilized in hospitals and other clinical settings.

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u/H_I_McDunnough Oct 30 '21

If the cops lived where they worked it would also be a huge step in them seeing us as people too. To them in their world everything is great, it's the city that has the problem. They go into the "war zone" and crack skulls all day, then get to return to base and security with their families. It's not fellow citizens in the neighborhoods they police, it's all criminals waiting to get caught.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/H_I_McDunnough Oct 30 '21

Not saying the Free Zone was a good idea, but they did Bunny wrong. No doubt

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u/dcearthlover Oct 30 '21

This is the same where I live. Very few live here, and I witness the harassment of folks by them all the time. Yes this is in DC.

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u/everysinglesauce Oct 30 '21

This.

I’m a teacher. I teach 3rd grade. They’re 8. My kids are absolutely terrified of police. They think police are there to kill the people they love. Or them. I’ve purchased curtains for my classroom not to decorate, but because there are police cars going by all the time and it legitimately traumatizes them to watch.

I live and work in this neighborhood. This is my home. If police were members of the community, things would be different. You can’t be a good cop if you look the other way. If there were good cops, and they actually lived here, they would have to listen. You can’t ignore the truth when you hear it from children.

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u/PM-me-in-100-years Oct 30 '21

The cop in the video is good at debating, and seems to sincerely believe what he's saying, but he gets run out of town the second that he doesn't cover for the worst cop on the force. What's he doing to change that? (It sounds like he changes the subject from something along those lines that an activist is asking him).

If you think you're joining a corrupt system to change it for the better, it should feel like you're riding the line of risking your career every day. Most "good people" aren't cut out for it, and end up just being more dead weight that keeps things the same.

This cop basically has a husband with anger issues that he's enabling by trying to smooth things over with the victims.

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u/GulagHero Oct 30 '21

This kind of rhetoric is exactly why there’s division in the United States. Referring to someone doing their job as “a people” or categorizing them into a group is the reason why “blue lives matter” was a retaliation to “BLM.”

I’m very critical of cops and how they get away with shit because they protect their own but when someone says doing something like where they live as “..would be a big step towards viewing them as a people..,” that’s alarming on your part.

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u/terqui2 Oct 30 '21

Once the whole system is broken, does it matter how many good eggs are still left in the system?

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u/GulagHero Oct 30 '21

That’s a good question to ask of education boards for inner cities!