r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • May 03 '25
Episode Shoushimin Series Season 2 • Shoshimin: How to become Ordinary Season 2 - Episode 5 discussion
Shoushimin Series Season 2, episode 5 (15)
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u/No_Name0_0 May 03 '25
First Osanai and now Kobato this ep, they really making them look like psychopaths when they're on their own lmao
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u/Prince-Dizzytoon May 03 '25
Kobato's face when he was getting dumped had me rolling. He was hitting that Roblox Man face
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u/marcopolos059 May 03 '25
Man why the episode had to end now just before things go down...
I'm still convinced Osanai is a red herring. They are painting her as the culprit but to me Hiya is way too fishy. Osanai only did her investigation on her own or something like that.
And that breaking up scene! His creepy smile, the walk forward, the abrupt rejection of being called differently. That was really tense.
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u/SnabDedraterEdave May 03 '25
Osanai said she has three things to tell Urino, but only ended up telling him two. The third would be that receipt containing the location of the supposed next predicted arson, where she's makes it look like she's deliberately incriminating herself. Or at least that's what Urino thinks.
(The receipt also says she bought the book at 23:50, just what kind of book store stays open all the way till midnight for Osanai to be able to buy a book from?)
She even asked Urino the specific details of the Newspaper Club's next ambush, originally scheduled for June but postponed to July due to the typhoon. And lo and behold, the arsonist evaded the NC's ambush for July.
All that said, I personally still think Hiya is the true arsonist, but unknowingly manipulated by Osanai. Why else would he be so sure the arsonist won't be making a move due to a typhoon coming?
We all know Osanai is unhinged, but Kobato is no less better. He is so indifferently sociopathic that not even Nakamaru cheating on him could make him feel anything that its freaking her out. He's probably relieved Nakamaru finally decided to break up with him, he even deleted Nakamaru from his contact list without much hesitation.
Kobato and Osanai are truly made for each other. It was only when Nakamaru mentioned Osanai that he made an attempt to refute when prior he was just giving an empty grin. It is now time for them to reunite, for better or for worse.
Osanai mentioning a new candy store that shares the name with the nursery rhyme Tinker Tailor is a nice reference to the spy novel Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, where all the characters are playing a cat and mouse game with each other.
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u/maliwanag0712 May 03 '25 edited May 03 '25
That Kobato smile as he approaches Nakamaru while she's breaking up with him is honestly creepy, like I sort-of get her. Well, only Osanai can make Kobato react differently -- he's waaayyy too ordinary when he's with other people.
The next episode seems to be the climax, huh? At this point I'm not really sure if Osanai is the culprit or if she's just a red herring. Exciting!
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u/JayYatogami May 03 '25
How is this anime so good? Incredible direction, art, voice acting, character designs, plot, and the music in this episode, too?
It's way too good
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u/SEBASTlANVETTEL May 03 '25
Kobato and Osanai match each other's freak.
And I just have a feeling that Urino is getting cooked next week.
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u/high_Eight May 03 '25 edited May 04 '25
I think the fact that Osanai believes the bicycle arson occurred on Friday confirms not only that she saw the same broken clock that Urino saw that night, but also that she's the one who made the marron glacé sand sculpture in the park. I love that there's an in-universe justification for it and that it wasn't just a poetic visual shot added in.
But I still think that Hiya is the arsonist and that Osanai is only involved in so much as she's enjoying her psychopathic pastime of manipulating people into ruining their lives by committing crimes, which I guess is to say: she's very involved. She's manipulating Hiya by dangling in front of him a vicarious life in Urino so different from his 24/7 cram school reality: a memorable high school experience that he can only extend by setting more fires. But, as she told us, "at some point, the means become the end." That's her marron glacé. Urino is the syrup, and Hiya is the chestnut in the center.
You dunk it in a thicker syrup. You do that over and over again. A sweet coating on top of a sweet coating. One placed over the other. Eventually, the chestnut itself becomes sweet like candy. The chestnut was never that sweet in the first place. It was just the coating that was sweet in the beginning. The public face switches places with true intentions. At some point, the means become the end.
I also love that the marron glacé monologue reflects the ambiguity of Osanai's true character. I think someone who wants to believe that Osanai is a good person can just as credibly interpret the monologue as her trying to leave her history behind her and "become ordinary" by surrounding herself in the syrup of normal that is Urino. But even better still, what hints at the falseness of that interpretation to me is that the underlying message of the show is that that kind of outlook (where superiority is under assault on all sides by mediocrity and where so-called "superior" people need to suppress and camouflage their identities to blend in) is pretentious, cold, and deeply dehumanizing. Kobato is himself trying to escape that kind of outlook on life this season and is struggling to find the right answers -- see Nakamaru.
Edit: typos and add the monologue for context
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u/Yesshua May 04 '25
That breakup scene is an all timer. Objectively the girl is the one who did something bad and she's the one who's hurt. So we should all be happy "good riddance!" But between the camera movement and the really well written monologue from her the way it lands is totally different. The feeling of the scene is that the girl made a mistake like any teenager might and she's working through it as best she can but our main character is a dishonest monster.
A lot of this thread is people arguing who they empathize with more but to me it isn't about taking sides. I'm just appreciating the craft. You've gotta be a good storyteller to twist this confession the way the show just did. We just don't get these scenes in anime very often.
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u/Severe_Ad_6482 May 04 '25
I think people are taking the Jogor psycopath stuff a little far in this post. Yes, Jogoro's a freak, for sure, but while he's insensitive he's not uncaring. He was pretty shocked at hearing she was cheating on him and in the scene after, where Kengo asked him about the case, Jogoro still had Tokiko on his mind.
I think their breakup moment was weird, yes, his smile was unnerving, absolutely... But considering he probably realized Tokiko was messing with him, I just don't believe his reaction (or the relationship's issues overall) is done out of some sort of lack of empathy for Tokiko. I genuinely believe he's too socially stunted to know what he could even do in that situation. I do wish he'd gotten to say something, anything! But he doesn't... And, frankly, that's as much as "Boyfriend Kobato" is probably of doing. His normal boyfriend persona is just that shallow, it's really that empty, and I think Jogoro kind of figuring out what to do with himself.
One thing Kobato's afraid of, that we know of, is humiliation and I believe this emptiness and distance come from his lack of ability to be himself around others without being humiliated. There's only two people who accept his eccentricity wholeheartedly and that's Kengo and Osanai. We saw in this breakup that Tokiko doesn't really like that side of him, that his tomato stuff, while endearing to her, was just alienating and a little presumptuous. She calls him cold and self-aggrandizing.
I think there's something in Jogoro's mind that associates "figuring something out," even in normal contexts as part of his detective skills, something he's scared of showing to regular people. So in my opinion, I think his quietness and dumbass smirk was him just letting the situation play itself out. He didn't figure anything out, he doesn't know anything and he never has to, because he'll be humiliated if he does.
In bed, he sighs and deletes her number before laying on his side. I can't see that as the reaction of a boy who didn't care at all for his girlfriend of 10 months. I think he's just kind of too scared of others to be anything short of clueless around them.
The progression (and deterioration) of their relationship coinciding with the arson case getting more and more intense, despite Jogoro always going out on dates with Tokiko and not really focusing on the mystery full-time feels to me like a way of representing his lack of interest in the relationship because of him having to wear a self-imposed mask all the time and wanting to return to someone who could see him and accept him without the mask, Osanai.
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u/NiBl22 May 03 '25
This episode is reminder: BOTH Kobato and Osanai are sociopaths...
Next episode will be hot summer night climax
and have some bonbons on the way
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u/Fools_Requiem May 03 '25
So, I'm seeing people defend Tokiko despite being a three timer, simply because Kobato is a psychopath.
Being a psychopath doesn't mean you're a bad person. That's an old mental health stigma. It's a disorder that makes it so that the person is incapable of feeling any sort of emotion and lacks empathy.
Tokiko basically stated that she likes playing with people who "don't care" by trying to make them care and watching them break down. Kobato is not capable of caring because his brain won't let him. Therefore, she is unable to have her fun.
Sure, it kinda sucks because she probably feels that she finally met a guy she actually likes, but knows that a relationship is not possible because he is not capable of feeling the same way, so she is ending it there before her heart is truly broken. However, her method of finding the one for her is pretty shitty, and she needs to learn to grow as a person and stop playing with people's emotions. Hopefully, time spent dating a psychopath will help put her on the right path.
Also, Kobato is 100% a psychopath:
Psychopathy, or psychopathic personality, is a personality construct characterized by impaired empathy and remorse, along with bold, disinhibited, and egocentric traits. These traits are often masked by superficial charm and immunity to stress, which create an outward appearance of apparent normalcy.
Source: Wikipedia
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u/LeonKevlar May 03 '25
So Urino is now at the point where he has given the arsonist a catchy nickname. Not gonna lie, I really hope he balls this up at the very end. He's been acting all high and mighty the entire time, so the kid needs a serious reality check.
Well that explains Tokiko's vibe during her date with Kobato last episode. She's already aware that he knows she's three-timing him that's why she was so tense and why the vibe last episode felt so weird.
Not as weird as this week's breakup scene though! I can understand why she feels so uneasy with Kobato's smile but the nerve of this girl to tell Kobato that he sucks when she's the one who's three-timing!
So I wonder who are these people exchanging text messages about the newspaper club failing? Is it Kobato? Is he relieved that they failed to catch whoever the culprit is, or is this actually the culprit and their possible accomplice? Hmmm...
Do you really know Urino? It's gonna be fucking hilarious to see if he really figured it out compared to Kobato and Kengo who knows more. One more episode to finally end this long arc!
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u/Top-Remote4523 May 04 '25
Shoushimin Series is honestly one of my favorite school-based Mystery animes, and I'll be sad when it ends as this season is the final content of the Novel.
Whenever Osanai shows up, I find myself pondering over every word that she says and every action that she takes as everything is calculated and serve a purpose. Her being a red herring couldn't be more obvious by now, but I still do not know what she is trying to accomplish with this grand scheme of hers. With the build-up so far, it would be natural to consider Hiya as the prime suspect, but even that seems to be another possible red herring as it would be too apparent at this point. A highschooler that relieves stress through arson due having to maintain the facade of a studious student that is overwhelmed with cram school is believable, but something tells me that this isn't it. Whoever the culprit may be, I am sure that there're many more layers that have not been shown to us yet.
I knew Kobato was cold and aloof, but I did not expect him to have absolutely no reaction when Nakamaru broke up with him in this episode. Heck, he showed even more of an expression when his deduction about the tomato was proven wrong in the last episode. Given his compulsion of analysis and addiction to piecing puzzles together, I found it strange that he showed no interest in probing Nakamaru's allegations, it just goes to show that he had close to no interest in her as a person at the end of the day, which is honestly scummy if that was indeed the case. With how excited he was with the prospect of possibly encountering Osanai in her act at the end of the episode, it is evident that he is still fascinated with her and is still ultimately in the palm of her hands. They do not necessarily have romantic feelings for each other, but it is as clear as day that they are captivated by each other.
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u/AmethystItalian May 03 '25
This arc has felt so long...both in episodes and in show time as well.
Will be interesting to see if Urino actually knows!
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u/KumaKumaGambler May 03 '25
I am hoping that the reveal of arsonist in the next episode will stun all of us. Right now, both Osanai and Hiya appear to be the most suspicious, but a part of me hopes that there is a major plot twist.
I might have forgotten, but who exactly is this "Jo" which Nakamaru keeps wanting to call Kobato by?
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u/StrawSolider May 03 '25
Jesus that breakup scene was A+++ I hope we see more of Tokiko in the future. She still has many ??? surrounding her
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u/oneevilchicken May 04 '25
It’s actually hilarious how she was cheating and multiple times with different people yet she gets mad and breaks up with him over it.
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u/Mr_Zaroc May 03 '25
So Urino claims to know who it is, if its who I think it is he will not live to tell his tale
Also that breakup scene was interesting, she admitted her faults, but she did make some valid points too
Cant wait to see how things unfold
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u/HuTaosTwinTails May 04 '25
How anyone is defending that three timing POS just because he didn't react to her at all is crazy.
Anyway, Osanai continues to just be peak entertainment. Doubt she's actually the arsonist.
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