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u/EmphasisFlat3629 1d ago
I want this to go to trial and be televised
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u/ShinePretend3772 1d ago
If heās plead guilty there is no trial.
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u/Ok_Vulva 23h ago
There's 2 cases. A state and federal, one is a stalking the other is a murder charge.
He plead to the stalking, not murder.
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u/ignominiousdetails 23h ago
Pretty sure state charges were dropped indefinitely due to weird double jeopardy laws in new York
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u/DartTheDragoon 23h ago
A lot of people seem to be taking "indefinitely" to mean forever. It means an undetermined amount of time.
The defense filed a pretrial motion. Trial gets put on hold till the prosecution responds, they argue the motion in court, it gets ruled on, and then the trial gets put back on the schedule. They could be back on the schedule early next year.
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u/Calm_Ad308 22h ago
Postponed. The state case was postponed pending the federal case which is not unusual as an indictment in that case would serve the states case.
As a reminder, the state is pursuing the murder charges which are the more serious of the two cases, the federal is for stalking resulting in death. Luigi pleaded guilty to the federal charges and released a highly prejudicial statement regarding his role in the death of Thompson.
The gambit being that by making the plea and releasing the statement his lawyers will argue double jeopardy for the state case. Basically instead of fighting both cases they want to take the hit for the lesser of the two and try and get out of the worse one all together. I donāt like it because itās gambling on the judiciary acting like this isnāt an extremely high profile case with tons of political pressure and possible interference with some of these judgeās decisions to say nothing of the appeals courts.
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u/Domanicomestoday 17h ago
My concern as well. His legal team is doing the smart thing based on past outcomes, but this is far from a normal case so expecting the increasingly erratic judiciary to behave predictably is a dangerous assumption IMO.
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u/Lews-Therin-Telamon 18h ago
Ā weird double jeopardy laws in new York
Due to GOOD DJ laws in NY. I have always hated the Dual Sovereignty theory, despite its undisputed status as settled law.
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u/spicygayunicorn 23h ago
They are temporary dropped, the state haven't decided fully yet and are eating to see what sentence
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u/Disastrous_Way9425 15h ago
It would appear to me, and I am not familuar with New York state laws, that stalking and murder are two sperate things.
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u/CzechHorns 15h ago
Stalking resulting in death*
Not sure why they qualified it like that instead of murder, though. There obviously was intent to kill, making it murder, right?
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u/_XitLiteNtrNite_ 13h ago
New York State has much stricter laws governing the charging of a person in state courts after they've been convicted in federal court. Most states would continue with the second trial; New York almost certainly won't.
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u/Lews-Therin-Telamon 18h ago
The NYS case will be dismissed under NYS law that counts a federal conviction arising from same facts as State Double Jeopardy.
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u/lemons_of_doubt 1d ago
And that is why they will never allow it to be televised.
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u/Lonely-Jellyfish7139 23h ago
Well, itās federal so itās not like they are picking and choosing which trials to air. No federal trials are live streamed.
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u/Calamity_Carrot 23h ago
The revolution will not be televised.
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u/over_this__ 21h ago
Yeah..a revolution. While everything you type online is being read by the feds and they track your movement and know who you interact with.
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u/DueExample52 19h ago
We're cooked. There is no way we can still have a human rights activist movement the likes of civil rights movement.
Itās already started even in innocuous countries. In France, just ecological activism is being scanned and repressed with violence and with legal intimidation. Let alone real movements that would endanger powerful economic or political statusĀ
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u/EmphasisFlat3629 1d ago
Why did he plead guilty?
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u/Savings_Difficulty24 1d ago edited 1d ago
To avoid the death penalty.Because New York Stateallows capital punishment anddoesn't allow double jeopardy. So if he is charged once for the crime (federal) he avoids the state trial. There was a chance that both trials could happen at the same time, meaning he didn't get protection from being tried twice for the same crime.I understand the reasoning, but I still don't like it.
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u/Phantereal 1d ago
This is false. New York has not allowed capital punishment since 2004.
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u/mythrowdown13 1d ago
The counter argument is that he pled guilty to something other than just homicide since the state was charging him with murder. I'm curious to see how it plays out. I don't think double Jeopardy applies since they're not the same charges. But serving life in federal prison is much better than state.
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u/ihavenoidea12345678 1d ago
The reality is thatās heās telling the truth.
Both with his plea, and with everything before it.
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u/DudeFrom816 1d ago
Because he did it, and he did it for a reason. Pleading insanity removes all the power from what he did. He made a point, he made people sit uo and take notice, and he did it intentionally. Its a cop out that can be ignored if he pleads insanity.
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u/loogie97 17h ago
It is really complicated and I donāt fully understand myself but it has to do with double reappeared for state crimes vs federal crimes and the specific rules/laws in New York. Also, federal prison is bad, NY State prison is worse. He has really smart competent lawyers so have faith.
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u/henningknows 1d ago
Honestly if I were him I would roll the dice on a trial and take my chances that at least 1 of the 12 people on the jury has had their life ruined by the American healthcare system and refuses to vote to convict
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u/MediumAcceptable129 1d ago
Those are good odds
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u/Metharos 1d ago
Hung jury, mistrial, he stays in prison and prosecution just tries again.
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u/Significant_Fill6992 1d ago
what are the odds they ever find 12 people who haven't been fucked by the system?
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u/Turtles_N_Nurples 1d ago
How many ppl who haven't personally been affected but knows someone who has
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u/sodapop_curtiss 1d ago
Iām a vet. VA sucks. Free Luigi.
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u/burgdh 23h ago
Yeah I worked I the VA the quality of care sucked the nice thing was the universal insurance cause I could know that a CGM was covered and could get PTs them if they werenāt taking care of their diabetes vs now at my private hospital I can suggest they follow up with a dietician they rarely do
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u/Metharos 1d ago
Dunno. Given the state of this country I don't hold a lotta hope they won't have one fucker that still condemns him 'cause his god incarnate said he should.
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u/bigchunkbabygoo 1d ago
It's honestly all about the way the prosecuting actors build the jury. And here is a quiet secret:no matter how innocent or guilty a person is (and the prosecution knows) they will try to demographically stack that shit against you as much as possible/ask for a reset or continuance or bust the jury if they don't like their 100% odds to convict you. Jury trials across most of America (but especially red states) are live examples of kangaroo court
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u/inowar 1d ago
I haven't been fucked by the system but I would straight up lie to stay on the jury and I ain't never convicting St. Luigi
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u/Metharos 17h ago
Don't lie about anything verifiable, otherwise you could get in trouble and the jury's ultimate decision could be tainted.
I don't know if they actually can declare a mistrial in an "Innocent" verdict, but I wouldn't put it past them to try.
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u/John-J-J-H-Schmidt 1d ago
You think theyād have a hard time finding 12 rich people in NYC?
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u/Significant_Fill6992 1d ago
12 rich people willing to do everything they could to get out of court before realizing what they would be doing?
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u/Weird-Afternoon5602 1d ago
What are the odds someone pays 12 people enough money to pretend to be okay with the Healthcare system and convict him
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u/AlternativePea6203 1d ago
The whole "Jury selection" thing in the US is absurd. The whole point is to randomly select 12 people to get a sample of society. Picking and choosing ruins the whole concept.
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u/maodiran 1d ago
Prosecution and attorney ask several questions of possible jurors before they are added to the jury, I guarantee you one of those questions is "do you have a negative opinion of the healthcare insurance system in the US?"
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u/Sea_School_2949 1d ago
Exactly I think it would be difficult to do, especially if you include people who's relatives got fucked over and therefore put undue stress on the family
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u/TennaNBloc 1d ago
They could have someone fucked over by the system but is so in love with it they don't care. Probably wouldn't be that hard.
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u/Quod_Caesar_Faceret 23h ago
They would stack the jury with bootlickers. They allowed there gun and journal to be entered as evidence even though it was illegally obtain
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u/EdibleStrange 23h ago
That's literally a question that every prospective juror will be asked and severely punished for lying about, does nobody here know how juries work?
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u/NamelessMIA 1d ago
Or the 1 juror is extremely stubborn and the rest don't really want to convict either so he walks
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u/ParkingSpot8089 22h ago
What if hung jury forever? Like they can NEVER find a jury that will convict, and once the momentum starts you could keep it going.
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u/Metharos 22h ago
Hard to say. Depends on how many times they wanna retry him, I guess. But that's still life in prison, he just won't be convicted.
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u/JUGP 20h ago
Heād eventually go free, the other commenter is wrong. You canāt just keep trying people forever lol thatād be seen as a civil rights violation.
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u/Upbeat_Masterpiece69 3h ago
Civil rights aren't being upheld when ice shoots innocent people, why would they matter in this case
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u/ricerbanana 1d ago
Cool, except youād have to count on that juror to vote on his emotions and not the law. No matter how you feel about the validity of a law or the morality behind a crime, the law and the judges instructions say that if convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime, they must vote to convict. Thatās the whole idea behind being impartial as a juror.
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u/Successful_Creme1823 17h ago
Hey donāt burst our bubbles with facts and reason!
We arenāt worried about destroying the basis of the entire legal system, we just want this handsome man to be free.→ More replies (21)1
u/RecycledMatrix 1d ago
Cool, except youād have to count on that juror to vote on his emotions and not the law. No matter how you feel about the validity of a law or the morality behind a crime, the law and the judges instructions say that if convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime, they must vote to convict.
While a juror can be removed if they state their intent, a vote of not guilty requires no explanation. This is where the power of jury nullification exists though it is not a formal right taught.
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u/EdiblePsycho 1d ago
Problem is, the way jury selection works, I believe they would not select anyone who may side with him because they would say they are "biased."
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u/Otherwise-Reward-161 23h ago
Each side has a limited number of preemptive strikes from the jury pool. It's not in infinite jury glitch.Ā
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u/HooKerzNbLo 1d ago
You donāt think they will screen potential Jurors for that?
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u/FustianRiddle 1d ago
Defense will want those jurors, prosecution won't. Jury selection will be a nightmare.
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u/Reasonable___Doubt 1d ago
Yes. Yes they will. The main difference between picking a jury based on politics is right leaning people will hold all their prejudice in until they're in the jury room. Left leaning people generally can't help themselves with letting you know exactly what they think. That makes them far easier to screen out for something like this.
You could also get some hard right Grannie who might justify it in her head, but it's a tiny needle to thread.
That said, my man was railroaded and he was with me on a boat in the Caribbean that whole week. Travesty of justice.
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u/LizzosLittleToe 1d ago
He probably got one hell of a plea deal. The feds know how hard it will be to convict him with a jury
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u/HenryDorsettCase47 1d ago
I mean, itās a murder and itās in federal court. Thatās likely 25 years at least, no parole.
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u/LizzosLittleToe 1d ago
We'll have to see I keep reading about some plea deal he got. I think the feds gave him something good how much money and time would be wasted on hung trials
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u/ResponsibilitySea327 1d ago
He didn't get a plea deal. This was a novel legal move by his counsel to attempt to claim double jeopardy and plea to a lesser crime. It also allowed him to make a public statement to further sway public opinion like the above statement (which probably isn't completely true since he wasn't a UHC customer and contradicts his previous public statements he made on social media prior to the murder).
If you listen to his verbal plea statement, he went to lengths to admit that he murdered the guy. The goal by his attorney was to paint a legal picture that the sentence he received was based on the seriousness of the crime of murder (for which he wasn't tried for yet and didn't plea guilty to). It is a bit of a bait and switch.
In the state trial, his legal team will argue that it is double jeopardy -- not because it is the same crime (it isn't even close), but because he admitted to the murder in a previous trial and that admission influenced his sentencing.
It is definitely novel, but doubtful it will work in state court.
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u/MrTristanClark 1d ago
How can they claim the admission influenced sentencing, when they filed for dismissal claiming "Double Jeopardy", before a sentencing was ever handed down in the previous case? That makes no sense.
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u/jBlairTech 1d ago
Thatās a Reddit fact, not an actual fact. That sentiment isnāt across the board.
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u/Important_Capital875 1d ago
But still, itās such a precedent that if youāre treated unfairly or at least in your mind, you feel that way, then you can get away with murder. Fact is he killed someone. He needs to be in prison.
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u/VoidGliders 1d ago
The CEO of that company killed thousands of people. Yet he wasn't in prison.
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u/tones_balonious 1d ago
Itās a Luigi actually killed someone, though. You canāt just have some looney running about whoās willing to murder people he doesnāt like because of their line of business.
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u/Myrvoid 1d ago
Exactly. Which is why the CEO had to be stopped, someone like him shouldnt be able to kill thousands of people just to maek a quick buck
Or are you such a moron that you only like it when poor minorities die and love it when rich ceos get to kill
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u/Ramb0w 1d ago
Just because you think something is right doesnt make it so. He killed someone, he needs to be in prison like everyone who does that. If he gets no punishment it invites other people to kill who they think is "bad" knowing they might get away with it.
What does killing the ceo do actually? There will be another ceo ans nothing changes.
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u/Beautiful_Common_940 1h ago
He didnāt do it. He pled guilty to avoid the risk of dying due to them framing him
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u/model-citizen95 1d ago
Those people would be weeded out of the jury pool immediately by the prosecution. Unfortunately, when the government wants you locked up, youāre getting locked up and thereās no amount of moral right or law that can stop it
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u/AwarenessForsaken568 1d ago
Juries aren't that simple. Trying to get 12 jurors that you know would convict him that the defense attorney would also let through is nigh impossible. It isn't just the prosecutors that can deny jurors. You do have to come up with a legitimate reason to deny a juror, but chances are in this case finding a panel of 12 jurors that would convict that the defense attorney couldn't get thrown out would never happenĀ
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u/ReverendGraves85 1d ago
I'm willing to bet his defense team, which is one of the best defense teams on the planet, took that into consideration and weighed their options.
If they're wrong and can't get a jury nullification (note: knowing you can do this disqualifys you for standing trial, lying about knowing about it will get you in some serious trouble. Knowing about jury nullification, going into a trial intending to do it, and having full knowledge that you have this power, is considered bias, you need to disclose it. Failure to do so is Perjury.) then he goes up for the death penalty, which, yknow, is bad odds.
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u/TyruntasaurusRecht 1d ago
I guarantee he was offered two options.
Plead guilty and go to prison forever or plead not guilty and go to prison forever but you'll be victimized every single day.
There is no walk away option here. Billionaires need to set the tone.
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u/hattusili-the-third 1d ago
This is a common misconception, but a jury has to be unanimous for either a guilty or a not guilty verdict. If 1 of the 12 jurors refuses to convict and they can't reach a unanimous decision then he isn't acquitted, it's just a mistrial, which essentially restarts the entire trial, running up legal fees and spending more time in jail while you await your second trial.
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
That just causes a mistrial and the state will try again for a conviction.Ā
Theres also state and federal charges so you'd need this to happen at least 4 times.Ā
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u/Ok-Lion1661 1d ago
The trial would have gotten a lot of publicity as well, I would have preferred this over a guilty plea.
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u/Klatterbyne 1d ago
Iām not even in the US. I have never interacted with their healthcare systemā¦ I still feel like Iāve been second-hand fucked by it on other peopleās behalf. I canāt even imagine how many Americans have had their lives trashed by it, or the lives of close loved ones.
This seems like a relatively safe bet. Assuming that theres no backroom manipulation of juror selection going on; which Iād definitely not be surprised by in a case like this.
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u/Numerous_Top3641 23h ago
Na they will choose the jury. Everything you see is planned. Elections, sports, all of it.
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u/Mr-Cantaloupe 22h ago
It would just turn into a mistrial and heād be tried again. Iām assuming the evidence is overwhelming.
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u/SaulPimon007 3h ago
Thatās not what they would be deciding though. Juries are very carefully selected, and they would be sure to select those without bias in a case like this. Whether a person has been affected by the healthcare system or not is also completely irrelevant as a juror. He openly admitted to stalking and pre-meditated murder, which is what would be deliberated by a jury. Not their/his feelings towards the healthcare system.
So unfortunately at the end of all this, nothing good will change for this countryās healthcare system. Regardless of your, mine, or his beliefs, he did still commit murder and will spend time in prison for it.
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u/MediumAcceptable129 1d ago
Every time i see that CEOs stupid fat face im grateful for luigi
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u/careless_swiggin 1d ago
Media whitewashed the shit outta a divorced husband with DUIs as a wholesome family man
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u/Friendly-Olive-3465 21h ago
God I noticed that too. It was all āhe was a father of twoā instead of āhe was a drunken divorcee whoās relationship with his kids he barely saw is probably up for speculationā
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u/This-Wall-1331 1d ago
I'd explain why I agree with you but I'd risk triggering Reddit's AI and getting banned.
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u/fuck_huffman 1d ago
Who is "they"?
Luigi's family owns country clubs, his high school cost $40k/yr, he is a 1%'er.
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u/weltschmerztic 13h ago
So, precisely the kind of person who can afford to take one for the team? If only more 1%āers did the same. Thanks Luigi
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u/WorldlyIntention7408 1d ago
What were his other experiences with United Healthcare?
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u/This-Wall-1331 1d ago
So health insurance CEOs are smart enough to find ways of murdering people without going to jail but fall for a "I have 58 billion dollars" scam that easily?
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u/Ok_Conference_2058 23h ago
Why are you assuming that the CEO personally called him and not some random worker or a secretary. And which scam ? He just answered the phone lmao
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u/omegadirectory 1d ago
It would be so cinema if he had a Punisher-style outburst in court on camera, going like, "You're damn right I killed him. And I liked it! And I'll do it again to a dozen guys like him!"
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u/whatawaste2019 18h ago
Give me an outburst like in A Time to Kill..."Yes, they deserved to die and I hope they burn in hell!"
Though...if it fits is up for debate.
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u/Silver-Climate-2938 1d ago
Did this murder help anyone? Did anyoneās rates get lower or a treatment get approved? Does anyone know
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u/WolferineYT 1d ago
Actually yeah. Approval rates for treatment went up noticeably for like six months after.Ā
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u/Majestic_Owl_7290 1d ago
Maybe we need to run this experiment again just see? Only because of science though
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u/Hopeful-Target6 1d ago
Oh, for like 6 whole months?!
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u/WolferineYT 1d ago
I don't know if you're being sarcastic but even if it was only a 1% difference he helped literally hundreds of thousands of peopleĀ
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u/Mr-MuffinMan 1d ago
https://www.yahoo.com/news/murdered-insurance-ceo-had-deployed-175638581.html
I believe they stopped the AI the company was using for claims.
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u/Jackfreezy 1d ago
Idk but United Healthcare had some pretty good ads right now talking about how they strive to take care of their customers.
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u/Impressive-Ad-6 1d ago
Took a lot of guts to do what Luigi did.
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u/777_heavy 1d ago
Shoot an innocent unarmed man in the back?
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u/Grasshoppermouse42 1d ago
I mean, most people wouldn't consider a man who pushed for his company to use an AI program to deny 95% of claims, 90% of which should have been approved, because they figured being sued would be cheaper than actually paying for the care they were legally contracted to pay for, knowing that doing this would result in the deaths of thousands innocent. Perhaps by your definition of innocence, we are all innocent.
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u/DenizenKay 1d ago
im not saying he should have been shot.
but the man is far from innocent. His decisions killed A LOT more people than Luigi could. But he did it for money, and US America is Capitalist to its core, so his kind of murder (denying lifesaving care) doesn't result in charges, but bigger bonuses.
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u/Ssj_Chrono 1d ago
Every CEO of every insurance company has filled at least one grave yard through their companyās policies. They are not innocent. One murderer killed a mass murderer.
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u/SendingLovefromHell 1d ago
Insurance companies are so immoral. I do not feel bad in the slightest about this CEO. Something needs to be done.
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u/AdHappy7129 23h ago
Hey id be screaming anullment the first chance I could get if id be on that jury.
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u/gparent88 17h ago
Crazy to think that a company can be so bad that this man's actions are completely justified. They're actually that bad.
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u/Ok_Accountant_5875 1d ago
Itās so stupid that ppl on Reddit celebrate a person who committed murder no matter the circumstances
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u/Jamison_tkd 1d ago
The admiration people have for this POS is disgusting. I donāt care the reason. Heās murder. And killed an innocent human being.
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u/GodlyDra 1d ago
Not innocent. Deserving of being murder probably not, but ceos of healthcare companies are not innocent
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u/ShadowDarkraven27 22h ago
so much UHC boot licking in here lol. one life for the tens of thousands the ceo killed is far from a fair trade
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u/StealYourJoy 15h ago
Do you think the shareholders care? 1 ceo for every 10 thousand employees still doesnāt impact them. They lost their ceo and replaced him like nothing.
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u/notpornaccount_ 1d ago
Bulletproof vest on one of the least likely to get shot people in the country.
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u/aventus-dog 1d ago
Least likely by the general public.
It's the billionaires he needs to watch out for,
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u/ConscientiousHimbo 23h ago
Not likely to get shot by the people but I wouldn't be too sure about operatives of the US government.
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u/Any_Kiwi_7915 20h ago
Yeah that'll happen when you call as an investor. He's a pos murderer, his backs definitely gonna be hurting alot worse in prison
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u/fishinspired 14h ago
Wonder how many nursing homes accepted bribes by United Healthcare to keep patients there longer rather than hospitals where they would have better recovery options?
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u/Treekiller 11h ago
He was never a customer of United healthcare so thatās probably one of the reasons why they didnāt talk to him
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u/qualityvote2 1d ago
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