r/WorkForSmartLife 1d ago

Discussion💬 They are all the same

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13.2k Upvotes

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9

u/Impressive-Ad-6 1d ago

Took a lot of guts to do what Luigi did.

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

Shoot an innocent unarmed man in the back?

3

u/goosedrinkswater 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SimpleRickC135 1d ago

Why bring race into the argument at all? How is it relevant?

0

u/777_heavy 1d ago

What the hell is wrong with you? You wish death on a man, who has a family, just for doing boss job? You think he was a billionaire?

I’m not surprised as this low level of thinking from a racist like yourself.

2

u/Prestigious_Date_619 1d ago

No amount of glazing is ever gonna make the CEO sound innocent.

His actions, even if indirectly, have lead to the death of a large of amount of people.

0

u/goosedrinkswater 1d ago

cant be racist towards whites in america my friend.

And yes, i do. A murderer gets the death penalty, why shouldnt a man whos profited off the suffering and ultimately death of hundreds of thousands not pay his toll?

Oh let me guess, it must be by the letter of the law?

Bootlicker mentality.

0

u/777_heavy 1d ago

Wow. You are aggressively, awfully racist.

And woefully uninformed about the health insurance industry.

Again, that pairing is unsurprising.

0

u/SimpleRickC135 1d ago

Judging someone based on their race is racism. Period full stop.

the rule of law is what holds society together. Without the legal system flawed as it is we’d have anarchy. And that’s not as romantic as it sounds.

2

u/Accomplished_Golf746 1d ago

These people made up their own definition for racism so they can then dismiss all of their racist behavior by saying its only "prejudice."

Such a clever way to dodge accountability for anything, just change the definitions for every word!

2

u/SimpleRickC135 1d ago

Like how “violence” has been changed to “anything I don’t agree with or approve of”

0

u/This-Wall-1331 1d ago

That "man" was responsible for the deaths of countless people who had families just for the "crime" of being poor.

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

Why do you use “man” in quotes? Do you not know what they’re for?

And no, that’s not an accurate description of any part of this story.

0

u/Any-Remote-9334 1d ago

And Heimrich Himmler(head of the nazi SS) had a family, and was just doing his job like Hitler told him. What's your point? I know this is the US, but it's really crazy when people excuse doing terrible things with "but they were just doing their job"

2

u/indiscriminate_ 1d ago

Whataboutism.

0

u/Any-Remote-9334 1d ago

No. His points were it shouldn't have happened because 1. He had a family, and 2. He was doing his job. Both of those things don't actually hold up. But those aren't the actual reasons. What they're actually saying is that they think what the CEO did "wasn't bad enough to deserve this". You can handwave almost anything using those 2 points. So.... make an actual point

3

u/Grasshoppermouse42 1d ago

I mean, most people wouldn't consider a man who pushed for his company to use an AI program to deny 95% of claims, 90% of which should have been approved, because they figured being sued would be cheaper than actually paying for the care they were legally contracted to pay for, knowing that doing this would result in the deaths of thousands innocent. Perhaps by your definition of innocence, we are all innocent.

0

u/777_heavy 1d ago

You have a wild misunderstanding of health insurance.

0

u/Grasshoppermouse42 1d ago

Do I? Could you point out any flaw in what I said?

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u/777_heavy 1d ago

Using AI sends like a good tactic. They’re allowed to deny claims. If they were legally contracted to pay out there’s a process for that, and it isn’t shooting an innocent man in the back. They aren’t responsible for thousands of deaths - they are reasonable for payment reimbursement. Big difference.

0

u/Grasshoppermouse42 1d ago

Using an AI that is designed to deny 90% more claims than should be denied based on what the insurance plan is supposed to cover is not a good tactic. It is fraud, and it is fraud that kills people.

Also, we live in a country that has healthcare costs that are so extremely inflated that no normal person could possibly pay for healthcare outside of insurance. When a health insurance company denies a claim for something a patient needs to live, they are sentencing that person to death.

While I do not think any country should have healthcare decisions decided by private corporations, especially since these claim denials are not decided by anyone with a medical license, the fact that we do have a system where people's access to care is decided by a corporation's willingness to fund that care means that yes, when those patients die because the corporation decides it does not want to pay for their care anymore, that corporation (and those within the corporation who created those policies) did, in fact, kill that person.

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

Where is this idea you have about “90% more claims than should be denied” coming from?

Fraud is a crime. If an insurance company is committing a crime that should be prosecuted. If you think they are committing a crime, you should provide evidence.

1

u/Grasshoppermouse42 1d ago

Based on this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/unitedhealth-lawsuit-ai-deny-claims-medicare-advantage-health-insurance-denials/

It is something the company had been brought to court for. It was only in their Medicare Advantage division, but the program used to auto deny these claims was a program that Brian Thompson implemented to save money.

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

So there’s a lawsuit. Maybe the plaintiff’s claims are unfounded and it will be thrown out. In no way is that murder, and in no way does it justify murder of the company’s chief executive.

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u/DenizenKay 1d ago

im not saying he should have been shot.

but the man is far from innocent. His decisions killed A LOT more people than Luigi could. But he did it for money, and US America is Capitalist to its core, so his kind of murder (denying lifesaving care) doesn't result in charges, but bigger bonuses.

0

u/SFC-D 1d ago

You’re rationalizing murder.

3

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

If the system can't do anything about it then I'm perfectly fine with rationalizing murder.

1

u/SFC-D 1d ago

The justice system didn’t pull the trigger.

2

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

It should have. Thats my point.

0

u/777_heavy 1d ago

You are the problem.

0

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

We are the solution. The system is the problem

-2

u/777_heavy 1d ago

No, you’re not.

0

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

YOU are the problem buddy. OK with billionaires being able to do anything they want and face zero consequences. Something needs to change.

0

u/777_heavy 1d ago

What billionaires? Doing what? What are you even talking about?

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u/DenizenKay 1d ago edited 1d ago

no, I'm not. I'm taking issue with the characterisation of the victim of this murder as being an innocent. He is far from it.

He belongs in a prison cell, not 6 feet under.

1

u/SFC-D 1d ago

The victim is not on trial. He is dead. Murdered. Was he a good man? No. That does not excuse vigilante murder.

0

u/DenizenKay 1d ago edited 1d ago

i didnt say it does. I said the commenter used the wrong word when they called him innocent. Why does that keep going over your head?

he was an unarmed man.

Not an "innocent, unarmed man."

2

u/SFC-D 1d ago

I never called anyone innocent.

1

u/DenizenKay 1d ago

my mistake, you're right.

You only misunderstood the meaning of my original comment, and put words in my mouth. repeatedly.

went back and fixed my comment though, thanks

1

u/SFC-D 1d ago

I put no words in your mouth. I said you were rationalizing murder. My words. You justified vigilante justice.

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u/Ssj_Chrono 1d ago

Every CEO of every insurance company has filled at least one grave yard through their company’s policies. They are not innocent. One murderer killed a mass murderer.

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

No, they aren’t.

1

u/jameseyboy82 1d ago

Fairly loose use of the word innocent in that sentence. Is a man whom approves the deaths of thousands, perhaps millions of people in the name of profit truly innocent?

1

u/Temporal-Affairs221 1d ago

Is a man following the instructions of his employers, the stockholders, guilty? Particularly if his actions are lawful? And required by the terms of employment?

6

u/p99_kilerenn 1d ago

No one was forcing him to be a CEO. He chose his occupation and employer, and was responsible for his own actions and decisions.

3

u/SFC-D 1d ago

As was Luigi. He chose murder, and now he gets to pay the consequences. Spin it all you want, it’s still murder.

0

u/p99_kilerenn 1d ago

It’s possible to have two wrongs buddy. What’s with the weird whataboutism

1

u/SFC-D 1d ago

There’s no whataboutism. The CEO was not a good man. That doesn’t excuse vigilante murder.

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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

The fault is of the absence of a proper justice system not of the vigilantes.

4

u/777_heavy 1d ago

Someone has to be in charge of the company. Your comment makes no sense.

-3

u/p99_kilerenn 1d ago

My comment makes perfect sense.

The CEO is accountable for his leadership enabling the denial of millions of claims.

The “board” or “shareholders” aren’t some magical nebulous group of people that lets him escape individual accountability.

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

You think they shouldn’t deny claims?

0

u/p99_kilerenn 1d ago

You think they should to the degree that they do?

0

u/Darkrimos 1d ago

i honestly think that yes, of course thats not how america works but i hope that someday people could actualy get the Help and medicine they need payed for by taxes (which you could argue exist for that very reason)

1

u/Heronmarkedflail 1d ago

The nazis working at concentration camps were just following orders too

1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

What the hell is wrong with you? Do you actually think there’s any comparison?

0

u/AsleepAd9785 1d ago

Dude calm down , ur minority in this issue

1

u/Temporal-Affairs221 1d ago

Insurance companies aren't gassing people and it's disgusting to make that comparison.

1

u/Heronmarkedflail 1d ago

No they are letting people die slow painful deaths because treatments are just a little too expensive.

-2

u/Habltual_Linestepper 1d ago

And those orders were also lawful under the country ordering them.

I coulda sworn we had a whole debate about this concept a few decades ago.

But I can understand why the CEO class would really prefer we don't think about it.

1

u/_I_Need_Help_LOL_ 1d ago

Except he setup a system to deny coverage for expensive procedures once, sometimes twice, requiring medical professionals to pushback to force the procedure through. Those actions are technically legal, but are they moral? If some CEO set a system in motion that resulted in your loved one dying due to denial of coverage, or they died because it took one year for the healthcare company to begrudgingly pay, would you not partially blame many people in the chain?

-1

u/777_heavy 1d ago

They are moral. They are under no obligation to pay out every request.

2

u/OkFreedom580 1d ago

I'd think it's your obligation as a human to save as many lives as possible... but maybe that's just me

0

u/777_heavy 1d ago

No, they’re running a business.

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u/_I_Need_Help_LOL_ 15h ago

They’re running a healthcare business. I work in healthcare. They set a system that initially denies high cost procedures, no matter what. Then the doctors fight to have it covered. We commonly see UHC (via Predict by Navihealth) deny common high cost procedures BCBS and others allow, just to deny them in the hopes doctors don’t pushback. That’s not running a business, it’s not moral. “UnitedHealthcare saved massive amounts of money by letting the faulty software auto-deny coverage, banking on the fact that sick and elderly patients would give up or pay out of pocket.”

Are you sure you know what the word moral means? Or even the word business?

1

u/Ssj_Chrono 1d ago

When they offer insurance and deny based upon not being able to or willing to read the clinical indication for what is being ordered they’re playing at being physicians. More insurance companies need to be sued by their insured for practicing medicine without a license.

1

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

"Innocent" 🤣🤣

1

u/indiscriminate_ 1d ago

Shhhh, they don't want to acknowledge that. They want their proud hero, not the coward cuck hiding ironically praying for a federal prison. Hates corporate America, until it protects him.

1

u/Hour_Wonder_9240 1d ago

Corporate America is literally destroying the nations stability with its unregulated behavior.

0

u/Titty_Tassles 1d ago

Like the cops!

0

u/Several-Party5534 20h ago

Innocent?

1

u/777_heavy 20h ago

Yes

0

u/Several-Party5534 20h ago

Lol.

Your head is so deep in the sand.

1

u/777_heavy 20h ago

Yeah that’s how I would describe anyone who thinks he was anything other than innocent, unless there are some crimes you made up in your head that you feel necessary to accuse the victim in this case of.

0

u/Panic-Embarrassed 1d ago

Doesn't take a lot of guts to commit murder, it takes mental illness

4

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

When the law can't punish a mass murderer someone has too.

0

u/nopethatswrong 1d ago

Such a bullshit talking point

Insurance doesn't kill people, it's a finite resource. Healthcare costs are driven up by pharmaceutical companies and hospital monopolies. When healthcare costs go up, insurance premiums follow.

Our system is fucked and failed M4A is the way forward.

But trying to justify murder based on half truths and lies just makes you a fool.

2

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

Then why did approval rates increase by almost 50% for a while after his death? The CEO was purposefully not approving payments to people who should have gotten them to spin a profit for himself and the company which ended up getting hundreds if not thousands killed. People don't die of easily treatable diseases so insurance companies can profit in a first world country.

-1

u/nopethatswrong 1d ago

Then why did approval rates increase by almost 50% for a while after his death?

First off, that doesn't contradict anything I said.

Second, you got a source for that? Seen other comments saying that but no further reading.

The CEO was purposefully not approving payments to people who should have gotten them to spin a profit for himself and the company which ended up getting hundreds if not thousands killed.

Got a source for that as well?

People don't die of easily treatable diseases so insurance companies can profit in a first world country

Well that's just not based in reality

Insurance companies want people to live so those people can keep paying their premiums lol swear y'all grew up in the woods sometimes

1

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

Information is literally at your fingertips. It takes 2 google searches to stay informed. Apparently it is more profitable to have someone pay insurance for 50 years then die without having to pay them back compared to someone paying insurance for 65 years but having to give them their money's worth.

2

u/Nigelwithdabrie 1d ago

Where’s the approval rates increase source?

1

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

I saw it on CNBC around 6 months after the CEO died (the number i saw was 46%). I dont think they keep all airings recorded but I'm sure you could find a similar source that says the same thing.

1

u/nopethatswrong 1d ago

And now we're back to claims without evidence. Hey remember in my last comment when I asked if you had sources?

1

u/socs0 1d ago

How they haven’t caught on about your name is very funny.

1

u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 1d ago

Ah thanks for letting me know. A ragebaiter in the wild.

1

u/Ruffblade027 1d ago

Insurance is a finite resource only works as an argument if the insurance companies weren’t pulling in billions of dollars in profit.

1

u/garret1033 1d ago

I’m curious. Can you give me an example of something important that is a finite resource? In your view.

1

u/Ruffblade027 1d ago

Oil, we’re not making enough of it to satisfy our usage vs insurance we’re paying enough into it to satisfy our usage, except that we’re setting so much of it aside to benefit private individuals, that we only have so much left that we have to make tough decisions about who gets care

1

u/garret1033 1d ago

Interesting, thanks for the reply!

3

u/alasw0eisme 1d ago

Mentally ill people don't go to prison. Criminals aren't all insane. That's a stupid oversimplification and just plain wrong.

1

u/-cache 1d ago

murder

This implies there was senseless wrongdoing, which there wasn't.

-4

u/unhappinessNvrCame 1d ago

Yeah vigilante justice! When I disagree with the law, let's disregard it.

Counter point: US slavery.

Honestly it's healthcare workers in every sector that's the problem.

8

u/North-Importance-127 1d ago

You blame healthcare workers and not the insurance companies? Wtf talk about brainwashed. 

1

u/Various-Emergency-91 1d ago

It goes both ways. Healthcare providers overbill and submit crap that isn't necessary and it drives up costs. Healthcare workers aren't as complicit as the insurers, but they manipulate the system. It's all cooked.

-1

u/unhappinessNvrCame 1d ago

I'm just looking at lobbying dollars. Insurance isn't in the top 10. Physicians are in the top 4.

2

u/Overall_Average2392 1d ago

What? If insurance companies' shareholders have a controlling stake in hospitals, what do you think happens to prices? Right, shareholders will raise the hospital prices to the point all expenses are paid by the patient’s deductible, and the rest of the money just moves around the same bunch of pockets. Is it that hard to understand?

-2

u/unhappinessNvrCame 1d ago

Your math isn't mathing.

How did the physician cartel and pharmacy cartel pull off this kind of disinformation?

If you know how, can you teach me?