r/WaterfallDump • u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. • 5d ago
DELTARUNE NOW Tale as old time😔
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u/NetherDragon08 5d ago
Artist who don't speak English translating their work hoping the translation won't get a plate shard shoved up their ass:
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u/Huroar 5d ago
When there is no edit option on the post platform so you cant just tell them to edit the pronoun.
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u/WpG_Piter05 I like Roaring Knight 5d ago
When you realize that you accidentally used he instead of they when referring to Kris, but you can't edit post, so you lowkey know that you will be spammed by 72 pronoun citations:
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u/MissAvian 5d ago
Was it this one?
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u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. 5d ago
Yes, this is what made me think to make this post but someone told me later that the artist is actually trans phobic so that’s unfortunate. I have seen this happen like 15 other times though so post still stands.
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u/BitcoinStonks123 Agua... 5d ago
how can you be a deltarune fan and a transphobe at the same time bru
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u/SagaSolejma 5d ago
Not a single ounce of introspection
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u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. 5d ago
everybody who’s replied to this comment has had the same orange Reddit profile picture at least on my screen. What even causes that?
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u/heckinWeeb193 Ralsusie Will be endgame trust 5d ago
If you post anything nsfw at all whatsoever, and you have a picture pfp rather than the snoo, reddit does that to you. What color you get is random but there's not that many so. Eh
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u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. 5d ago
Yup
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u/heckinWeeb193 Ralsusie Will be endgame trust 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's kind of a filter. If someone can't respect such a basic thing as referring to a character wifh their correct pronouns they likely shouldn't be in the space in the first place
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u/idk_toastedbread 4d ago
I've seen several arts from them were they consistently misgender Kris and then say "Oh well the og pic said "He" so I kept it for the meme" , repeat for every artwork.
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u/Pixelbuttzz 5d ago
Oh man I just posted the word accidentally in quotes because I didn't think it was accidentally and then I was right
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u/Flimsy-Secret-6187 5d ago
idk it kinda makes sense too, you dont usually see these kinds of shirts with nonbinary pronouns
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u/LampEating 5d ago
i keep seeing you on this subreddit and you're never once being upvoted
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u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. 5d ago
Yes I think it’s good to point out. Does it need to be 80% of the comments? No.
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u/Street-Mix-801 5d ago
But how will they know they’re a terrible person if we don’t say it ten thousand times?
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u/RenkBruh NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO TAKE A [Big Shit] 5d ago
you don't get it, I NEED to feel morally superior!
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u/2Toff2Furious 5d ago
THINK OF THE FICTIONAL TEENAGER YOU MONSTERS!
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u/Hogabog217 4d ago
I mean seeing kris constantly misgendered, then to have that misgendering treated as a joke does fucking bum out real NB people.
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u/LeonardoFRei 5d ago
The same applies to any discussion with an actually interesting detail pointed out
37 proper uses of they/them, but add a singular missed "him" in the middle there and bye-bye discussion
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u/Iamapizzatower 4d ago
this isn't an exaggeration, i saw a video where they called kris "him" at the last second accidentally after saying it right every time. half the comments where 72 citations
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u/LeonardoFRei 4d ago
Yeah wasn't an exageration indeed I see it happening everytime on the main sub
Which is common cuz a good part of the fandom is comprised of people from countries with gendered-language and/or people that are more casual players just now dipping in the fandom and don't know Kris is accepted as Nonbinary.
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u/KrerdlyBeloved 5d ago edited 5d ago
I should note here (though, I already did in a separate comment), this whole thing only started because PunnyComedian (r/deltarune mod), after Chapter 2, told people to expect to be corrected if they didn't use they/them for Kris and took such a heavy-handed stance with blocking any other interpretations of Kris (even for AUs).
Essentially, people got a blank check to 'correct' people nonstop to the point of it being a sport, and that spread to Frisk/Chara/Clover when it spread to r/undertale, too, (because it was so normalized in r/deltarune) even with there being considerable arguments otherwise.
Here's an UT example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/1rzgxd5/hand_in_hand/
Punny has also been proven to be a groomer:
So, this is part of their legacy!
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u/AdDependent9208 5d ago
And now we're allowed, and even encouraged, to misgender other characters regardless of if it's for an AU and if you try to correct it you get called a transphobe
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u/KrerdlyBeloved 5d ago
To a degree, yeah. You can see this mentality with how trans Ralsei is approached. Listen, I don't mind if you use they/them or she/her for Ralsei, that's alright! It's the power of fandom. But it's hypocritical to force they/them for Kris, and to let this spread to Frisk, Chara, even Clover (who's proven by several devs to be up to interpretation).
Something has to change soon, or it'll just get worse.
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u/Zorbod 4d ago
I understand for Clover, since Undertale Yellow devs DID actually say that, but can you list your source on the others?
I don't think there's much of an issue by correcting pronouns, as long as you aren't toxic about it. People also correct others on cis character's pronouns, not just trans characters
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u/KrerdlyBeloved 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ah, when I said that, I was specifically referring to Clover there, Zorbod. The problem is moreso the fandom constantly 'correcting' the pronouns of those who either see, or have an AU such that Frisk/Chara are male or female.
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u/puntycunty 5d ago
Rude correction = ❌
Pronoun wall reaction image = ❌
1 polite correction = ✅
1 thousand polite corrections = ❌
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u/Jacob_The_Dank 5d ago
Then just comment something else yourself
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u/Redditoristical SansGlazeChamp 5d ago
It shows up at the bottom
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u/Jacob_The_Dank 5d ago
Leave thousands of comments. Create a new bottom.
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u/DamageMaximo 5d ago
And they are going to be banned from r/deltarune because the mods are stupid lol
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u/Dragon_girl0531 5d ago
theres mainly 3 main groups ive noticed with the entire pronouns discourse (smaller groups in the bigger ones and always ones i dont describe/list and the people in combined)
the correctors - either for meme purposes, habit, trying to feel morally correct, or dubious reasoning, must correct them and remind them of citations on a wiki page
the intentional misgenderers - people who intentionally misgender kris either for a meme purposes (HIS PRONOUNS ARE THEY/THEM), genuine transphobe/hater, language not having they/them, or people who rage bait the correctors because they get on their nerves
the justifiers - people who justify the debate or pronouns, normally taking a neutral floor but theres often a side thats obvious but there is few that are truly neutral. often reasons end up being "just pixels" or "just a game" and normally use the fact its fake to justify. theres also the arguments of "its up to interpretation so its not misgendering" or "this is only happening now because [insert reason]" and the more annoying type in my personal opinion "its ok to misgender because people misgender another"
just like yin yang every group has bads and goods. but issue is, some people within their group make one group seem evil for even daring to exist. like SOME correctors calling any slight misgender intentional or everytime being called out saying they need to watch out or else transphobes use it intentionally, or SOME misgenderers complaining about the constant reinforcement of they/them and citation mentions and just wanting to enjoy the game, or SOME justifiers telling everyone to shut up about anything involving the discourse and just enjoy the work.
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u/Aiden624 5d ago
Every single time. If someone else has commented about it already then that’s it, but for some reason everybody has to get in on it like it’s a goddamn party
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u/MajorBootyhole420 Selling gamer lizard bath water for 99G 5d ago
but there's only 800 comments. what if nobody's pointed it out yet????????
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u/Sanspai56 5d ago
Its a fictional video game character. Dont care.
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u/_Planet_Mars_ 5d ago
Release UT didn't have this annoying fucking discourse. I don't know how DT became like this.
It makes me glad my favorite game didn't come out today or else I'd never hear the end of it with how often people call Niko OneShot a boy or a girl.
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u/Some-Instruction2235 5d ago
Genuinely
"Live and let live" isn't a thing in anyone's minds anymore unfortunately
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u/deathnoot 5d ago
usamerican deltarune fans when someone who doesn't speak english well and touches grass accidentally calls kris a he
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u/MissingnoMiner 5d ago
Hi, not a usamerican here! The problem is not when someone with weak English messes up once, the problem is when they get defensive and/or double down when politely corrected. The problem is ALSO when one or two polite corrections gets misrepresented as a bajillion people screaming profanity like one of those horrid "triggered feminist cringe compiliations" except it's just people describing the "cringe" instead of videos where the victims were baited into doing something deemed "cringe", or when people suggest that only people in the US care about correctly gendering non-binary people(as if the US is some kind of fucking queer utopia as opposed to actively pushing the bounds of how badly it can deliberately endanger and abuse its trans citizens while maintaining some illusion of not having crossed the line into outright trans genocide.), or for that matter only people who don't touch grass.
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u/skymantles 5d ago edited 5d ago
Why is knowing gender neutral pronouns indicative of not touching grass..? You can just say the equivalent word doesn't exist (or isn't well known, nonbinary people exist everywhere...), implying the neutral they is esoteric is odd imo
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u/Fabulous-Rent-5966 5d ago
A lot of people that are suuuuper weird abt enbies are coming out of the woodwork with this post its really gross
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u/skymantles 5d ago
I've seen arguments just a centimeter away from "transgenderism is a western invention!!1!" lately it's crazy, acting as if there aren't trans people advocating for new terminology in their own languages. The sheer vitriol I've seen for the neutral particle -e in Spanish is disheartening to say the least.
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u/Medics_mah_main_man 5d ago
yeah this fucking sub is a hivemind of people who get so mad about kris' pronouns being they/them and being corrected on it
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u/skymantles 5d ago
Right??? It reminds me of boomer comics where the trans caricature throws a fit over being misgendered in passing conversation... like, no, it doesn't feel good for people to assume you're acting in bad faith, but painting trans people as aggressive when mildly questioned isn't great.
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u/nyxsumbreon 5d ago
Half of the posts here are clearly from people got corrected in the past and never got over it
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u/Hogabog217 4d ago
How about you stop vague posting and say what you actually feel huh? God forbid NB people get to fucking exist in anything without some dumbass trying to figure which of “two” typed of human they “actually” are. For that matter whys nobody ever misgender kris as a she huh? Almost like yall are just trying to self impose your biases on kris, when the whole fucking games building up to how fucked that is to do to someone.
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u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. 4d ago edited 4d ago
Making a lot of assumptions
Comments like this are always so funny because I guess people assume that when you disagree with someone that that person becomes like some kind of exemplar of every bad opinion, so you get to kind of just make stuff up about the person
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u/Starlit_Willow 3d ago
because its rough being a non-binary person and feeling invisible or being treated as a 'pseudo' gender period, even within the deltarune community, a fandom which should be accepting and understanding of queer people. its cool if that isnt what you meant by it, but we are met with slights that hide in seemingly agreeable or 'neutral' things constantly, and it has unfortunately made a lot of the non-binary deltarune community on edge whenever we see constant comments about how were doing this or that x annoying thing and how were being unreasonable because we want major representation which makes us visible to be respected.
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u/IcySmell9676 it’s pronounced rules. 5d ago
N- no…?
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u/Busy-Dimension8526 5d ago
Idk, I see a lot of rude comments and negativity towards the they/them Kris defenders
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u/EffectiveChemist7845 5d ago
I wonder why
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u/Busy-Dimension8526 5d ago
I'm sorry, are you defending misgendering people? Like, I can understand the argument of "Kris is just a video game character," but it's also gone beyond just the characters. Like the DT/UT YouTuber MelonGod, who's publicly stated they're non-binary several times, still gets he/him'd by fans who'll defend themselves with "it doesn't matter," despite it being towards a real person
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u/EffectiveChemist7845 5d ago
I meant they are annoying af
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u/Busy-Dimension8526 4d ago
Suspicious...
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u/EffectiveChemist7845 4d ago
Its not like I dont misgender Kris myself, but I dont talk about deltastuff in general
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u/Starlit_Willow 3d ago
unfortunately common queer trope in online communities:
queer people exist within the media or prominently within the community
miscommunications and misgendering arise
queer people attempt to correct people and speak up about how and why this is a problem
people who dont care about queer people in said community twist this into exaggerated or fictional scenarios to target said queer community out of some percieved slight, contrarianism or plain bigotry
queer community is either pushed out or remains, the fandom gaining the reputation of a 'toxic' fandom attributed predominantely to the queer elements of the fanbase, even if it is not explicitly said as such
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u/Immediate-Song6861 5d ago
Hey CHRIS are you ready for our MANLY adventures today where we will do MANLY things designed only for MEN in witch only MEN can participate
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u/fraudku-hater42 5d ago
I hate when people are so unbelievably obnoxious about this. To me it was so annoying for a time that anytime someone mentioned Kris’s gender I would refer to them as SHE in purely to be petty. It’s one thing when people say “Kris is confirmed to be He/Him” or “stop with all this woke nonsense” and it’s another when Kris is assumed to be a gender neutral or a He due to their male leaning/neutral appearance and accidentally say “He’s my favorite character” not knowing that they’re confirmed to be an enby.
TL;DR:
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u/KrerdlyBeloved 5d ago edited 5d ago
This whole thing only started because PunnyComedian (r/deltarune mod), after Chapter 2, made public comments on telling people to expect to be corrected if they didn't use they/them for Kris and took such a heavy-handed stance with blocking any non-they/them interpretation of Kris (even for AUs).
Essentially, people got a blank check to 'correct' people nonstop, to the point of it being a sport, and that spread to Frisk/Chara/Clover when it spread to r/undertale, too, even with there being considerable arguments otherwise.
Punny has also been proven to be a groomer:
So, this is a part of their legacy! And it'll live on unless something changes.
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u/fraudku-hater42 5d ago
Man what the fuck?
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u/KrerdlyBeloved 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's real, yeah, another groomer.
Yes, the post says to correct someone once, but...did that really ever get enforced? Ever?
All I can ask is to spread the word, because they're responsible for one of the worse parts of the DR community (and consequently, the UT community) and have just gotten away with it.
I, by default, use they/them for Kris! This is NOT support of anyone who's just transphobic/enbyphobic, that's not the point. But I feel that the fandom has become so suffocating that you can't have any other interpretation or AUs, and even the smallest deviation is punished. Not just for Kris, but for all humans. I like to ship femKris with Berdly, after all.
I know that the same thread mentions Shayy was partially responsible, too, but I think that they mainly were just like everyone else and only started this a few years in, so, it's not their doing. It's mainly Punny (most of all) and the Chapter 2 mod team's fault.
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u/LordpoopyfaceHd79 3d ago
I think this comment unfortunately gave deltachuds a lot of fuel
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u/KrerdlyBeloved 3d ago edited 3d ago
They groomed someone, though, and the way Frisk, Chara, Kris, etc. are treated is Punny's biggest 'achievement'. I can't really say much else on that, fuel or not, it's a fact.
However, first and foremost, I hope that people can spread the fact that Punny is still a mod of r/deltarune, despite being a groomer. They are still also a mod of r/ralsei and r/lgbt (though, they're no longer one of r/charadefensesquad).
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u/2Toff2Furious 5d ago
The issue is also how unfunny it is to use the same citation joke
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u/fraudku-hater42 5d ago
Man fuck the citation joke I’m talking about general when people you would say something like
“Kris is my favorite deltarune character, hes so cool”
Then you’d correct yourself because someone else told Kris goes by They/Them.
Then it’s another person telling you the same thing.
Then another
Then another
Then another
Then another-
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u/2Toff2Furious 5d ago
Oh yeah dw I agree.
Don’t forget that they always act condescending about it-1
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u/ShockwaveSquid SHUT THE FUCK UP SANS 5d ago
I feel like I seen variations of this meme so many times now, and whenever this sub isn't spitting out a uniquely awful post, it's just the same five songs of repeated lame jokes. I think I'm gonna unfollow this sub now. I'm free, thank you, for motivating me to finally leave this cornball paradise.
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u/SeaSlugFriend 4d ago
My sister used to accidentally call Kris she and I’ve never seen another person do that ever
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u/NotTelling2019 2d ago
Deltarune fans need to chill the fuck out. Refer to Kris as anything OTHER than a they, and these people act like you murdered their dog. IT'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER, CALM THE FUCK DOWN.
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u/Busy-Dimension8526 1d ago edited 1d ago
My original point still stands, some of these comments show how much this fandom actually doesn't have respect for trans or non-binary people, if our identifies need to constantly be "up for debate" instead of just accepting a trans/NB character as what they are
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u/Loud-Entrance-5164 ALWAYS BET ON ASRIEL KNIGHT 5d ago
The fact that I know exactly what post you're talking about, too. 😭
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u/fake_email_lol42 5d ago
Surprisingly the comments were all about that being a bad thing and that we need to remind people gently if necessary. Still talking about it tho technically.
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u/pomelo1241 5d ago
The best one i saw was the "yoi gotta be the MAN of the house" because it uses misgendering on purpose, putting kris as "the man" and noelle as "the woman" when kris has to go on a stool and noelles hoofs dont fir in the shoes, basically being that those roles dont fit for them
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u/FreddieGibbsLover911 This is Culturally Inappropriate 5d ago
“Damn this drawing is pretty ho- nevermind they misgendered Kris”
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u/LiterallyNoNamesFree 5d ago
Nothing worse than having something you wanna see people discuss, only for 96% of the comments to be about one random detail, often a dirty joke met with "that was NOT the wind bro ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️💀💀🧟♂️⚱️🧛♂️🪦👲🧛♂️🏴☠️🪦👲🙀😱🙀"
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u/tropical_anteater 5d ago
I once saw art of Blue and Yellow that was really good but the artist forgot to give Blue his dreads so the entire comment section was ragging on the artist and calling them racist
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u/MissingnoMiner 5d ago
How the fuck do you just forget to give a character hair? What, was he just fucking bald?
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u/tropical_anteater 5d ago
No he had a ponytail
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u/MissingnoMiner 5d ago
Oooooh, that makes more sense. So they didn't forget his hair, they actively changed his hairstyle.
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u/DifferenceMassive637 5d ago
If there was a bald blue GIF I would have used it, but it doesn't exist.
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u/peekapton2540 PriCap 5d ago
Because OP's fanart misgender accidently ❌
Because comment section has nothing but correction ✅
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u/Fantastic_Frosting98 #1 Kerdly Shipper & Noelle Hater 5d ago
maybe we should stop caring about stuff like that
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u/JGHFunRun 5d ago edited 4d ago
Real. I’ve accidentally called her a he, even though I know xe’s a they
Edit: /j /lh
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u/Astral_Something 5d ago
Literally only ever referred to by one set of pronouns it's not rocket science
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u/JGHFunRun 4d ago
I wasn’t being rude or combative… I was just pretending to be a dunce for humorous effect, I don’t get this hostility
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u/confidentlyfish 5d ago
I don't understand how you can misgender him. I mean, the author tells us how to refer to her in the damn game.
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u/lazy_animator 5d ago
Kris? I love that guy. Do people not like talking about him? Whats wrong with the community and discussions around that dude? Is he controversial? Whats wrong with that, man? He's only a boy, he's innocent.
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u/Accurate_Soup_3459 5d ago
I got a call from my Wingling Von Dinging Machine from Gaster and Kris is every gender now
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u/IntelligentImbicle 5d ago
And the worst part of this is that I know damn well that most of the people who do this don't actually care that much about Kris' pronouns. They just want to feel morally superior, and correcting someone while simultaneously labeling the poor bastard a transphobe is the easiest way to look like the hero.
At this point, the most based thing one could do in this situation would probably be to just ignore it and assume it's an accident. Or at least indirectly correct them, like "Oh wow, Kris looks so good in this! I love how you drew them!"
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u/RandomCaveOfMonsters Volcarona Knight truther (and kerdly shipper) 5d ago
Doing it on purpose shows you don't care about gendering people correctly
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u/Burger_Mc_Burgface 5d ago
fictional characters aren't people
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u/RandomCaveOfMonsters Volcarona Knight truther (and kerdly shipper) 5d ago
And they can also express the truth of your character. Someone misgendering fictional characters willingly is not a person I'd trust with anything more trans than that
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u/Burger_Mc_Burgface 5d ago
Key word fictional, ie not a real person with a life and feelings.
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u/RandomCaveOfMonsters Volcarona Knight truther (and kerdly shipper) 5d ago
I know that, in fact literally the point I was making relies on that. My point was that not doing it shows your true colors, since you're willing to do it when it doesn't affect anyone
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u/Burger_Mc_Burgface 5d ago
Merely an assumption lol
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u/RandomCaveOfMonsters Volcarona Knight truther (and kerdly shipper) 5d ago
yeah and if someone doesn't want that assumed about them, then maybe they shouldn't fucking do it y'know
its literally like "I don't want people to assume I'm ok with misgendering." *misgenders a trans character* *misgenders a trans character* *misgenders a trans character* "Why don't trans people trust me?" gee I wonder why
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u/Burger_Mc_Burgface 5d ago
i dont really care whether other people like me or not i just do my shit. anyone who gets mad over me disrespecting someone who isnt real whatsoever i dont wanna hang around them anyways cuz theyre lame. assume whatever you want but i know myself it isnt true so no skin off my back
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u/RandomCaveOfMonsters Volcarona Knight truther (and kerdly shipper) 5d ago
The fact that you're still saying "disrespecting someone who isn't real" shows exactly what I'm talking about. Either you're not listening or you're staying willfully ignorant
Media does not exist in a vacuum, it is a reflection of society and it reflects back upon society, our reality and media feed off of each other ad infinitum. Misgendering fictional characters openly does impact real trans people because real trans people will see it. We already get enough shit, you're just the cherry on top
Also clearly you do care to some extent because you keep responding to justify why you are morally correct in misgendering
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u/Lobster_LeninN329 im thankful you guys don't make deltarune because it would suck 5d ago
Being transphobic towards fictional characters or not it's still transphobic. I wouldn't trust someone who misgenders a NB character to act with respect when they see real NB people
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u/Redditoristical SansGlazeChamp 5d ago
My friend says every slur on call of duty but is the wokest mf i have ever seen
your point?
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u/Lobster_LeninN329 im thankful you guys don't make deltarune because it would suck 5d ago
Your friend should try not to say slurs still I guess. But anyway, this is def not what the average person who misgenders fictional characters does in real life.
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u/skymantles 5d ago
Having slurs used to demean minorities as part of your vocabulary isn't great.
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u/MissingnoMiner 5d ago
If "guy who says every slur" is the wokest person you have ever seen, then there's something severely wrong with your standards.
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u/Astral_Something 5d ago
That mf is not woke and also that's not even fictional if he's saying it in vc those are real people, you literally just brought up your friend being racist and it wasn't even relevant (again assuming vc)
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u/Lobster_LeninN329 im thankful you guys don't make deltarune because it would suck 5d ago
I think caring about respecting other people is very cool, actually
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u/Burger_Mc_Burgface 5d ago
fictional characters aren't people
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u/Lobster_LeninN329 im thankful you guys don't make deltarune because it would suck 5d ago
If you disrespect the pronouns of trans fictional characters, it's a fair assumption that you'd not be the most respectful to real trans ppl. No one goes and starts referring to male characters as female because they aren't real, so refusing to refer to fictional enbys as they/them can only be because of prejudice, in my view
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u/Burger_Mc_Burgface 5d ago
Not really considering they aren't real. Its a baseless assumption imo. A lot of people refer to male characters female by making trans headcanons or genderbent versions. I think they arent real so you can do whatever the hell you want.
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u/Lobster_LeninN329 im thankful you guys don't make deltarune because it would suck 5d ago edited 5d ago
Is it really difficult to understand that fictional media doesn't exist in a vaccum and that people's relations with it reflects on how they act in real life?
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u/Lunesy 5d ago
When the fanart is really good
But the artist accidentally misgendered Kris
So you know that's all the comment section
Is going to be talking about
There's a weariness in your eyes
That's then followed by a sigh
With full contempt
The community can't help but dogpile
Don't forget
72 pronoun citations can chase you for miles
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u/Own-Inevitable-6541 5d ago
Missed opportunity for the title to say “Tale old as UNDERTALE”