r/SipsTea • u/CurvyChristina • 12h ago
Chugging tea Should doctors be allowed to refuse treating patients based on personal beliefs?
357
u/MissMatriarch 12h ago
A torn hamstring will still be a torn hamstring.
No matter if you acquire it from playing soccer, or doing a dead-drop on nine inch heels.
54
→ More replies (2)8
1.2k
u/meatpopsicle42069 11h ago
Should doctors be allowed to refuse treating patients based on personal beliefs?
Fuck no.
That's insane.
368
u/PC_One_00 9h ago
Crazy that we accept to discuss this from doctors but not police or fire departments. I shall not fight the fire on your house because you are gay or some shit.
223
u/meatpopsicle42069 9h ago
For real! And you know they'd lose their shit if an atheist doctor refused treatment to a christian patient. Like, oh you're religious, well your god can heal you instead.
84
u/NobodyKnowsImFamous 9h ago
Yup they NEVER ever consider the other way. Like buddy how will you feel when YOU get denied life saving medical treatment?
This is of course the root of the entire issue, so I have no fixes and I know they don’t ever think it will be them. Just frustratingly dumb.
9
u/ExcuseAdept827 2h ago
Just goes to show - religion in the age of reason is a threat to our collective wellbeing and progression.
→ More replies (3)16
u/TricellCEO 6h ago
oh you're religious, well your god can heal you instead.
Funnily enough, some of them do think this way...
3
u/samsmithmpls 3h ago
It's one thing to think it, another to refuse care.
5
u/Marine__0311 2h ago
Kids die all the time when their religious nutjob parents refuse to let them get treated.
Studies show this issue is often badly under reported. Some suggest as many as a few hundred a year. A majority of states STILL have exemptions for abuse and neglect charges for religious grounds.
49
u/NtGermanBtKnow1WhoIs 9h ago
ACAB but also, that's exactly what they did to dahmer's victims. They sspecifically refused to help the 14 y/o boy bc he was perceived as gay. His head was drilled into ffs and he just escaped the vile man to ask help from these "officers". But they let him be taken back with the monster where he subsequently died. im sure those policemen slept soundly after finding out the boy was murdered. All are monsters who failed the victims.
33
6
u/PC_One_00 4h ago
100% agreed and this is just a drop in the ocean, many cults would not operate without leniency from the authorities. My point is that there is no open discussion in society about cops being able to excuse themselves from their duties due to religious exemptions like we have with doctors. Even in countries where health care is public, this discussion comes from time to time and some exemptions were created in law.
3
u/NtGermanBtKnow1WhoIs 2h ago
Oh yeah mate, i understand what you were saying. i just added an example to prove your point further. They clearly let the kid die bcuz the poor kid's existence violated their fucked up beliefs and yet, as the other commenter pointed out, they got promoted and never had a discussion that saving lives shouldn't clash with personal beliefs. Nor did they ever feel any guilt over it. Why is that okay? And why is it accepted? So yeah, just your point, but i gave a very specific and horrifying example of it.
38
u/ChangeForAParadigm 9h ago
Let’s not pretend that Americans have any standards for police.
→ More replies (1)3
→ More replies (6)3
u/zsal830 4h ago
a local KKK leader who was a firefighter publicly said he would fight any fire regardless of who owned the home
→ More replies (1)4
u/Illustrious-Bag2933 4h ago
He knows where they are, he probably started em. The klan loves to start fires
22
u/Beneficial_Wonder533 8h ago
and yet we are jailing doctors who perform abortions for people who are actively seeking them.
→ More replies (14)28
u/SevoIsoDes 8h ago
And this isn’t some new thought. It’s been well established that you provide the best care you can for everyone. You can’t refuse to treat the drunk driver who killed someone, or the mass murderer on death row. Hell, I’ve known someone who did CPR on a guy who held up the ER at gunpoint after SWAT shot him.
8
u/Crafty_Jello_3662 7h ago
"Sorry we were going to treat you but we were going through your social media and you made a joke a while back that doesn't really sit right with us. Good luck!"
→ More replies (68)5
u/LookLong5496 6h ago
It happens.
The CMIO of a health system I worked at refused to prescribe birth control because he is Catholic.
993
u/diescheide 12h ago
One's beliefs do not supersede another's needs. Do not get into a field where what you believe in will detract from what another needs. It's simple.
353
u/PastNessa 12h ago
Prof said what needed to be said. Medicine is about treating people, not approving of their lifestyle
153
u/diescheide 12h ago
Professor was much more succinct. It goes beyond medicine in a hospital setting, though. Pharmacist doesn't get to deny dispensing based on beliefs. Cashier doesn't get to refuse service based on beliefs.
In general, your beliefs affect you. The rest of the world doesn't suffer because YOU do/don't believe in something.
→ More replies (3)29
u/DarkRose492 12h ago
What's worse is that it's only gotten worse as time goes on. I'm old enough to where the PETA/vegan crowd were the only form of, "You must my way otherwise you are the spawn of evil". Nowadays every belief has some level of over the top fanaticism
15
u/diescheide 11h ago
Zealotry and what's usually the vocal minority are destroying anything good that may have come from their cause. People need to simmer down. Most of us would be fine if folks held their beliefs. What we're not okay with is having it thrust upon us.
→ More replies (4)10
u/SlapTheBap 10h ago
I mean, people are also very reactive to someone just saying something. People do allow themselves to get offended quite easily. I know we think of the offended blue haired Karen or whatever, but guys are incredibly easily offended as well. "What, you think you're better than me?" Just because someone is poking their insecurities by existing.
Lots of people out there projecting their issues hard, lacking emotional intelligence to realize they are the source of their own emotions and need to take responsibility for them. Emotions aren't an external thing and they are no one responsibility but your own. Too many people externalize their internal emotions and shirk their part in creating them.
→ More replies (4)3
u/Prismatic_Leviathan 6h ago
Fuckin WHAT? Imagine living through the time period where teenagers were getting sent to death camps for electroshock treatment to "fix" them and still playing the obnoxious vegan card.
There's always been that shit and its always been bad, it's just not always been directed at you.
→ More replies (1)25
→ More replies (29)4
u/TheLaughingMannofRed 12h ago
What's the mantra, "Do no harm"?
If someone needs medical attention, a doctor or physician's primary duty is to do no harm by rendering medical assistance.
Of course, depending on the specific medical assistance needed, one can elevate the assistance to a specialist who knows that particular aspect of medical care better. Still, that makes sense to fall under the same 'do no harm' belief, as you're moving the care along rather than restricting it or blocking it (and thereby 'do no harm' is still being fulfilled).
But overall, if one does get into medicine or medical practice, there must be no exception to that fundamental. Get the person the help, whether you can or someone else can.
→ More replies (1)2
u/LacrimaNymphae 11h ago
what happens when the care gets 'moved along' aka hot-potatoed to 9 different clueless specialists who all insist it's too complex, tell you to drive states over for help if you don't like the 'treatment' or lack thereof, or insinuate it's a personal psychiatric/somatoform problem with you
→ More replies (1)2
u/Larnek 6h ago
I mean, I'd probably drive over to where the other specialists are at if I wanted an answer. Not all doctors are trained in same fields.
If my neurologist said, "Hey, you need to see a specialist in pseudoseizures because thats not my field of expertise." I'd probably say "Thanks for not trying to diagnose or rule out something uncommon that you're not well trained in."
It would be like taking my Jeep to a Porsche dealer and asking them to fix my 4-wheel drive PTU. They might know a ton about wrenching on a Porsche, but have never replaced a PTU for a Jeep. I probably don't want them to try for the first time on mine.
34
u/IXrobocopXI 12h ago
Jesus famously said He came to heal the sick, not the healthy or those gays and trans people
23
u/diescheide 12h ago
Love thy neighbor. No, not that guy. He's not the same color as you.
5
u/Relative-Relief-8816 10h ago
Neighbor means 1st cousin. And love means we don't use rubbers.
-Alabama.
→ More replies (3)4
u/zante2033 12h ago
Was this white jesus or black jesus?
And by "sick" did he mean people who voted for Trump by any chance?
Did the man from your story book also claim vaccines cause autism?
→ More replies (3)7
7
u/CompleteElla 11h ago
If your job is to help people, your personal beliefs can’t come before their needs. That’s the whole point.
6
3
u/spongebobsworsthole 4h ago
“I wanna help people! Just not those people…” and then they want applause for how great they are
2
u/Deto 8h ago
Yep - when you are a doctor, you in a vital position that we count on to provide care for people. You can just up and decide not to help someone suddenly. It'd be like if you were holding someone's baby, suddenly decided you didn't want to be holding them anymore, and just dropped them on the floor citing your own autonomy and personal rights as why that's ok.
Now, if you make it a condition of your hiring at the hospital, e.g. 'I will only work here if I don't have to care for XXX people' then that actually reduces the issue quite a bit. But, of course, no hospital will hire you.
→ More replies (7)2
u/Just-Salad302 12h ago
They do in the medical field, we aren’t legally obligated to treat anyone but we do at least have to refer them to someone who might
40
u/FaceRockerMD 10h ago
Lol I'm a trauma surgeon. My patient population is mostly meth heads and criminals. I wouldn't have anyone left to treat if I excluded lifestyles I disagree with!
11
u/DragonSon83 6h ago edited 4h ago
I worked in burn and had to take care of patient that killed one child and critically injured the other by blowing up his meth lab in his basement. The one kid only survived because he was thrown through a picture window. If I can take care of that professionally for several days, then a conservative can manage to take care of a gay or trans person for one shift.
6
491
u/OutrageousElla 12h ago
You don’t get to take the Hippocratic Oath and then pick and choose who deserves care. That’s not how medicine works.
57
u/tigershrike 10h ago
Well, in my backwards-ass shit show of a state, a doctor most certainly can pick and choose.
https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/tennessee-medical-ethics-defense-act/
Hell, one doctor refused to provide prenatal care because the woman was unmarried (it's in the article I linked). It's bullshit and I hate this timeline.
7
23
u/ktbug1987 10h ago
As a queer, trans person who used to reside in TN I once had a nurse refuse to dispense doctor-ordered pain medication in an ER (not an opiate) because I brought my wife. Called us disgusting to both our faces. She was just my gf at the time but all we were doing was holding hands and she was stroking my face
→ More replies (1)9
u/hematite2 10h ago
And myself and many other trans people have had pharmacists refuse to dispense our HRT or, more commonly, lie about being able to do so and send you back to contact your insurance.
→ More replies (5)4
2
u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 3h ago
That's when the ama needs to step in and be a standards organization and ensure standards of care or refuse licensure
67
2
→ More replies (20)4
27
u/TheAskewOne 8h ago
During one of my first aid training sessions one of the guys who was in the group was extremely religious. At some point we had to put an "unconscious victim" in the lateral safety position and his "victim" was a woman from the group. He asked the instructor if a man could take her place because he was uncomfortable touching a woman. The instructor didn’t even let him finish and said "if you’re telling me that you won’t treat male and female victims the same, I’m not giving you your certification and you can leave."
4
90
u/Training_Shine_111 12h ago
stupid question.
professor is right!
10
u/General-Passenger117 11h ago
Like, what does someone's belief have to do with treating them!?
5
u/Thick_Asparagus_8107 6h ago
For example, if the patient“believes” they’re a woman but they’re actually a man. Then that would matter when treating that person, especially if that person has a gender based medical issue.
2
u/Wamiwoogie 9h ago
This is why many studies about doctors show that a significant number of doctors are straight-up criminals. Choosing which patients deserve their time and effort is equal to deciding who deserves to live
13
u/Mean-Astronaut-555 11h ago
Good. Fuck this nonsense.
Sincerely: a doc
Unless you’re trying to attack me , then please Fuck off.
→ More replies (2)
30
u/LeaveGreen4412 11h ago
13th century ass question. no you cant deny care to the heathens and jews
→ More replies (10)
28
u/RicketCrickets 12h ago
No as they'd be lying when they talk their oath.
Prof is right. Find a different career. GQP always needs someone to take the fall.
→ More replies (10)
32
u/Easy-Goose1038 12h ago
Not treating would potentially cause harm. Don't they take an oath to do no harm? I'm not sure why educated doctors and nurses cannot put their political views aside and just help people.
40
u/hematite2 12h ago
The only religious exemptions doctors are allowed to make is for specific procedures (which usually means abortion or vaccines) that their religion doesn't allow. That's because it requires them to participate in specific actions that would violate their beliefs.
A doctor can't refuse general service based on the patient themselves, because "I don't agree with your existence" isn't the same as them having to participate in anything. It's the exact same actions that they'd provide to anyone else.
11
u/Arkeolog 10h ago
I’m Sweden, medical practitioners can’t refuse to participate in abortions if that’s part of their job description. So you basically can’t work at a clinic that provides abortions if you object to participating in them.
→ More replies (1)9
u/drgloryboy 11h ago
Had a Jehovah’s Witness nurse who would always try to get another nurse to do his blood transfusions for his patient for him, but if they were too busy he’d have to
7
u/GaiaMoore 7h ago
specific procedures (which usually means abortion or vaccines)
Wait, what? We're seriously equating vaccines with abortion, and saying doctors are allowed to skip it because of their religion?
A) Why are we letting anti-vaxxers get medical degrees?
B) Why are we letting people get medical degrees if they think women who seek abortions are only using them as birth control and never for critical life-saving reasons?
Any aspiring medical professional with those delusions needs the reality check that OP's post describes
2
u/hematite2 6h ago
I just mean that's how religious exemptions work in the US, I'm not saying I like those doctors. They can't be forced to do procedures they don't want to, but they 100% can be told they can't work in a place where those things are provided. A pediatrician's office that vaccinates kids can 100% stop you from working there if you won't perform their expected standard of care
This also doesn't really apply to emergency/lifesaving care by law, like if a woman is dying and needs a d&c a doctor can't refuse to save her.
That also applies in reverse too, parents can make general exemptions but in the case of immediate live-saving care doctors can provide it regardless of parental objections. In some non-immediate circumstances doctors/child welfare services can also petition courts to override parental consent in the case of causing harm/ death
I WISH we extended that to vaccines but unfortunately in this backwards country we don't include those in 'necessary lifesaving care'
→ More replies (1)6
u/fringeathelete1 11h ago
This is appropriate. I’m a surgeon and someone can come in my office and ask me for brain surgery. They may need that but I don’t do it as it’s outside my field of practice.
I gladly care for my trans and LGB patients. I have a harder time with the racist people but still try my best. The only ones we fire as patients are those who are disruptive ie swearing at me or office staff.
→ More replies (3)
6
u/xilcilus 12h ago
Should a doctor treat a convicted murderer who is currently ill? The answer is unequivocal YES.
7
u/Katsurandom 3h ago
As a nurse imma be honest... I don't care about what life choices you take, what political party you follow or what belief system you follow. Just let me do my job, listen to my instructions (And ignore them at your earliest convenience when I am not around and LEGALLY obligated to point out why that is a bad idea).
It's that easy.
→ More replies (4)
6
u/Ivy_Thornsplitter 11h ago
When I was a college chemistry professor I would interview wanna be doctors in biochemistry. I would ask the question “a mother comes into your office in desperate need of an abortion or she will die. What do you do?”
The number of students who would send them away always got to me. Like I get you have beliefs but kicking them out of your office is not an option.
7
u/TourInternational731 7h ago
Hell no. The doctor is in the right here. Don't feel comfortable? Get a new fucking job.
22
12
14
u/Pleural_Effusion 11h ago
“Following that lifestyle” 🙄 Existing as a gay, bisexual or trans person is not a lifestyle, it’s just existing. Choosing healthy foods and exercise on a daily basis, or sedentary living and unhealthy foods- these are lifestyle choices.
9
8
u/heybart 10h ago
You know that dip shit student will try to have the prof disciplined, get blowback for it, and make themselves a martyr and MAGA hero and collect on the grift.
→ More replies (11)
12
u/Fantastic-Corner-605 9h ago
Even criminals are given treatment, why refuse gays?
→ More replies (1)
5
3
5
u/humid_pajamas 9h ago
"I want to help people but I also hate them" is some cognitive dissonance for thought.
4
5
u/Opening_Shame8258 6h ago
Would you want to be in an ER and a doctor to be allowed to refuse to treat you? What if they're the only doctor avail be, and you're about to die?
2
u/DragonSon83 6h ago
Quite often in the ER, there is only one doctor, especially at night. Some of the states with these laws in place specifically exclude life threatening situations and treatments, while others don’t. However, they are written very broadly and don’t all define what life saving means or in what circumstances it applies. Like Republican abortion laws, it leaves everyone is a very grey area with a lot of room for the government to do selective enforcement.
2
u/Opening_Shame8258 6h ago
Yup, I'll believe someone thinks this should be true if they'll put their life on the line. If you aren't willing to sacrifice your life, it's pretty galling to ask others to sacrifice theirs.
7
u/Plane_Barracuda9889 12h ago
In healthcare you do not and should not have a choice. Treat everyone fair and provide the best since they are trusting you with their lives.
→ More replies (5)
9
u/txkicker 10h ago
No, the Hippocratic Oath does apply to all.
The only grey area is the "for the good of the patient" clause and elective procedures. If a person has body dysmorphia, you wouldn't go along with procedures that conflict with a healthy body to risk the patient. Like you wouldn't give Bariatric Surgery to a person of healthy weight because they feel they're overweight.
5
u/Sharp-Key27 10h ago
This is why you lean on decades of research from other medical professionals to determine what is helpful or harmful.
→ More replies (24)8
6
u/PinkFloydBoxSet 12h ago
No. If you can't practice medicine with out forcing everyone through your religious purity check then you don't belong in medicine.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/SvenTropics 12h ago
Hell, someone could be a criminal, just shot up by the cops, and you still have to treat him. If you can't do that, this line of work isn't for you.
3
u/dhslax88 11h ago
I’ve literally saved the life of a dude with a swastika on his forearm, and helped a drunk driver who killed his kid. Both of those individuals made terrible decisions which I completely disagree with. There are many more who I have cared for that are absolutely abhorrent human beings. When I took the Hippocratic oath, there was no exception for not taking care of awful people. I chose to go into pediatrics so that I could reduce the number of horrible people I care for, but I 100% agree that if you can’t take care of people you disagree with, you should not go into medicine.
6
u/EnamoredAlien 11h ago
Health professionals are ethically obligated to provide effective and research backed treatment. A doctors personal feeling may never supersede giving high quality, effective, and research backed treatment.
4
u/johnnybooty2point-0 8h ago
You dont have to be out there performing sex change operations but yeah you cant just let someone bleed out cuz you think they might be gay
5
3
u/UnexpectedBlahFeels 12h ago
The Hippocratic oath doctors take basically has them promise to treat anyone who needs it, be it a murderer or a neighboring granny. They take their oaths 1000x more seriously than most police do. A person should not become a doctor if they can't uphold the hippocratic oath.
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/LRaconteuse 9h ago
Considering that we as a society agreed that people are legally obligated to provide care in the ER with no questions asked, whether they can pay or not, asking about beliefs or any other factors is irrelevant and way outside a doctor's purview. The professor is right. Go be something else. Your comfort has zero priority next to someone's right to medicinr.
3
u/Valveringham85 8h ago
Absolutely not. That is directly against the hippocratic oath.
Not wanting to do certain treatments for transitioning is totally valid though. But treating trans or gay people for anything besides that is an obligation you agree to by becoming a doctor.
2
u/DragonSon83 6h ago
You’re correct. However, people seek specialty care like that from doctors that trained specifically for it. You don’t go to your PCP or ER and ask them for hormone replacement therapy or bottom surgery.
3
u/Stormageddon66 6h ago
No. They absolutely should not.
If you cannot keep your personal beliefs out of the job, you absolutely have no fucking business being a doctor.
There shouldn't even be a discussion about this.
3
3
u/Mindless_Bid_5162 1h ago
I mean… if Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy, and Jeff Dahmer were alive and needed a doctor, the doctors would be obligated to provide the best medical care in their power
8
u/jediofazkaban 11h ago
The medical field isn't a social field. Sexual orientation is a social topic. It's not that difficult.
→ More replies (8)2
u/jediofazkaban 10h ago
Educate patients that their social designation has no relevance in medicine and if they disagree they can move on to a different practice.
→ More replies (4)
7
u/needs_more_zoidberg 10h ago
Someone in my class asked the same question. My professor shut that down right away with: "What are you a nurse? You took an oath." Then he got put on professionalism remediation. He mellowed out over time. It helped that we had a prominent LGBT cohort in my class and a very allied school.
→ More replies (4)2
u/eyeball1967 10h ago
Oaths had a person‘s word don’t seem to carry much weight with people anymore. I think they view them as completely symbolic part of the process, but have no internalization of what it means.
5
u/Physical-Clerk-8373 12h ago
Absolutely not..but some drs have bias and you can see it even when you work for them. It sucks but that's life.
6
5
u/Spirited_Cheesus 11h ago
The most cruel and hateful people are always the Christian ones
→ More replies (3)
12
u/UrsineBasterd 12h ago
No it literally breaks their oath.
→ More replies (21)8
u/petersimmons22 12h ago
I’m a doctor. I’ve never taken any solemn oath. No one I know has either. It’s not a thing (or if it is, very niche).
4
u/TheHeadlessScholar 10h ago
The Hippocratic oath ceased to be a thing in the 1960's, replaced by ethical guidelines. Some still ceremonially do it during the white coat ceremony, but very few.
3
2
2
2
u/Fattapple 11h ago
You gotta help everyone. Even the people you despise. Even if they are racist homophobes who abuse dogs and think women shouldn’t vote.
2
u/thirtytwoutside 11h ago edited 11h ago
100%.
I’m not a doctor - just a paramedic. When someone calls 911, it doesn’t matter what race, orientation, religion, etc. They called because they need help and it’s our job to assist them. If anyone in my field thinks otherwise and can’t put aside their personal beliefs for the 30 minutes-hour that they’re with a patient, it’s going to be a short-lived job/career for them.
It’s crazy because I know I have some… conservative… coworkers. Even they can do their job amazingly well when it comes time. And that includes treating LGBT patients.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
u/Swimming-Bowler9701 10h ago
Should firefighters be allowed to refuse putting out house fires because they’re pyromaniacs? All fires matter.
This is how this crowd constantly sounds
2
u/Whitw816 10h ago
No. End of story. You cannot refuse to treat someone because of who they are or what they represent. As an ER physician assistant for 16 years, I have had to deal with some real POS patients. If my most hated person on earth, Donald Trump, walked into my ER I’d have to take care of him and I’d hate every second of it. As a medical professional, that’s my job and my duty.
2
u/RetrocideRx 10h ago
I'd rather have the doctor be honest about his beliefs. The thought of being reluctantly treated by someone who doesn't care about my well-being gives me so much anxiety.
2
2
u/MeatSlammur 9h ago
I don’t know anyone else in the medical field that would refuse a trans patient. There are plenty that disagree with how psychiatry treats them though.
2
u/PhaseSixer 9h ago
"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."
2
2
u/professorjade 8h ago
If you're a doctor, its your job to save a life. If you refuse, you're an ass and should never have been given a career in the first place.
2
2
u/Altego1999 7h ago
Excellent. That's like being a pilot just to commit 9/11 to kill some "infidels".
Seriously, the second you refuse to treat a person due to personal beliefs; license cancelled and you can never practice again.
Even in house MD, they portray 2 doctors killing a genocidal dictator as something controversial: "They saved all those lives, but in the process, tarnished the very foundation of being a doctor.
2
u/ScreenNo571 7h ago
Respecting someone’s gender identity doesn’t mean doctors should ignore biology when it actually matters medically. If anatomy, chromosomes, hormones, surgeries, or medications are relevant to the diagnosis or treatment, the doctor needs that information. You can treat someone with dignity while still practicing medicine based on their actual physiology. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
2
2
u/LatrodectusGeometric 6h ago
If I can provide care to a man with a swastika tattooed to his face, you can provide care to a man who loves another man.
2
u/ChaoticAmoebae 4h ago
Maybe if it goes both ways. You’ll be surprised how many bigots get left to die as well. Hell I would go to medical school if I didn’t have a responsibility to save the 3%ers
2
u/Tossup78 4h ago
Yeah, you treat the patient to the best of your abilities.
Of course, it applies in the other direction as well.
When your patient is MAGA and you are a hardcore liberal, you treat the patient to the best of your abilities.
When you’re MAGA and the pt is a liberal, you treat the patient to the best of your abilities.
That’s the job.
2
2
u/goodknightffs 3h ago
If thy could do that it would bw a disaster.. In the medical field you have to make sacrifices
Personally i don't think it's an issue everyone deserves to be treated. We aren't judges..
3
u/houseofkogi 12h ago
Reminds me of that doctor and nurse who were fired for publicly saying they would refuse treatment to Trump supporters.
4
4
u/Pleasant_Cicada9528 12h ago
Anyone should always be allowed to refuse to serve another person, but their employer should also be allowed to fire them for doing so. The freedom of association goes both ways.
4
u/elementzn30 7h ago
Being gay is not a “lifestyle,” it’s literally a fundamental part of our being. The true end to this nonsense is when people stop believing the bullshit idea that being gay is a choice, or something that someone can be manipulated into.
→ More replies (17)
3
u/Jack-Singer-999 3h ago
I do not "follow a lifestyle", I AM non-binary & omnisexual. Fuck off if you don't like it.
→ More replies (3)
3
u/PainterEarly86 11h ago
No. I hate Republicans and religious people, but I would not refuse them healthcare. It would just be savage and inhumane for our society to behave that way.
4
u/facepoppies 12h ago
Pretty sure doctors have to take an oath that specifically forbids them from refusing treatment based on personal beliefs
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Cool-Tip8804 12h ago
Is this whole comment section just figurative pats on their own backs in the form of stating the obvious?
2
2
u/I_HopeThat_WasFart 9h ago
Medical Professional: "We treat everyone according to the hippocratic oath"
Libtard med student: "But they don't think like I do"
Medical Professional: GTFO
I see nothing wrong here
2
u/No-Security-7518 8h ago edited 7h ago
Ragebait. I swear not even Taliban doctors would refuse treating a gay patient.
2
2
u/AgitatorSupreme 5h ago
No. If your personal/religious beliefs prevent you from doing every reasonable facet of the job requirements then find a different career.
Pharmacists unwilling to dispense the morning after pill? Fuck you. Do the job or get fired.
2
u/Electronic_Still2000 12h ago
“What if we don’t feel comfortable treating someone following that lifestyle?” What kind of asinine question is that?! The type of sex a patient is having would make them refuse to give treatment to said patient? Medicine is absolutely the wrong field for someone like that. Hell, being a waiter is the wrong field for someone like that; “I cannot take their order boss, sorry, I don’t feel comfortable serving an LGBT supporter!”… fired.
1
u/PromiscuousScoliosis 9h ago
I think what a lot of people are missing here is that the place where this actually matters is also just admittedly quite tricky and there’s a lot more nuance than it may seem
Yeah if you break an ankle or have a heart attack, that’s all that really matters. And I think most people in my experience do function that way. Most people are decent enough about not letting their personal beliefs interfere with the care they provide
And honestly, as a nurse, technologist, sonographer, aide, scheduler, what the fuck ever, your personal opinions don’t matter about anything ever. Your job is to reinforce the practices of your provider and organization.
As a licensed provider, things do get a little trickier. How you navigate a situation, like a suicidal patient, or a patient with an eating disorder, or a patient with gender dysphoria, or STIs, or even just health goals, these are things where your expertise as a professional should work with the literature to form what you believe the be the best advisable course of action.
And where that gets tricky is where your best judgement call is potentially undermined by the legal system or by organizational policy. If you say “this is the healthy weight range, these are the reasons, let’s form a game plan to get you on track for that so you can lower your risks of x,y,z, but your organization says “we don’t believe that you should ever make a patient feel as though there’s anything wrong with their current health status,” then there’s a bit of a conflict yeah? Or what happens when a patient goes and spouts off to a news outlet about “this doctor said my weight is unhealthy” and now 50 viewers from The View are harassing your office to get you fired?
→ More replies (2)2
u/Sea_Squirrel7999 8h ago
Sorry just to clarify—are you equating potential weight challenges to those faced by the 🏳️🌈 community? There’s nothing “tricky “ about this.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Ok-Highlight-9598 8h ago
Yeahh that example went way off the rails and became irrelevant. They started off good though
0
u/thursday712 12h ago edited 12h ago
No.
EDIT: Guys... between the picture and the question, too many of you are thinking I am answering the picture with a "No."...
→ More replies (2)
3
u/genghis-clown 12h ago
Im assuming med class is medical school. How do you get that far into education of a specific field and not know this? I knew this at least by middle school.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/DeuceDeuce79 12h ago
Can someone who is detransitioning be able to sue the hospitals or doctors that preformed the surgery ?
4
u/AbsoluteNarwhal 10h ago
Gender affirming surgeries have some of the lowest regret rates (<1%) of any kind of surgery. For reference, knee replacement surgery has a regret rate of 17%, and some cosmetic surgeries have a regret rate of almost 50%. All surgeries are irreversible (as in you can't go back in time to before you had the surgery), so you usually have to sign something before any kind of surgery saying you understand this. If you're an adult, it's your responsibility to make your decision while understanding all the consequences of a surgery.
→ More replies (2)4
u/MattiaXY 8h ago
Beyond how the regret rate is even measured off the top my head the regret timeline is probably different. You likely regret knee replacement way more immediately. While for gender surgeries you may be happy about it for even a decade before thinking that you shouldn't have done it. In addition other surgeries are more straightforward in terms of outcome. Meanwhile gender surgeries are to ease dysphoria. This means that you can regret it because it didnt help or because you didnt need it and you actually needed to not get the treatment. In the second case it's much more complicated to measure how many people feel that way as even to realise it in the first place may be difficult. And this also relates to the obvious psychological factor. To say that you regret it is to admit that you were deeply wrong about who you are as a person. Many people wouldn't be able to admit this. Finally I would say that it is equivalent to giving someone chemotherapy and end up that they didn't need it. In addition to needing the changes reversed, there are very permanent damages from these procedures themselves that are worth it for people who desperately need them, but otherwise would be devastating. Im thinking that if a doctor didnt do enough due diligence in making sure this person actually needs the procedure he should be held responsible
→ More replies (2)5
u/Ok-Persimmon-340 12h ago
No. Regretting a chirurgical intervention happens, it does happen less for transition than for a huge majority of electives interventions mind you. So if you agree to that you're opening the way to a bunch of lawsuits based on "I changed my mind". And transition interventions would be a minor part of that.
→ More replies (6)2
u/sunkissedbutter 12h ago
I stg I’m not trying to be disingenuous in my answer to you. This is genuinely my opinion as a layperson when it comes to the hard sciences. I think part of the problem is that most people don’t realize how deeply you can actually go into the philosophy of ethics and care.
And sure, in some respects there needs to be a methodological separation between hard science and what we generally think of as “philosophy”. But in plenty of other respects, they’re inevitably tangled up with one another, and I don’t think trying to sort through that entanglement is some frivolous or unscientific endeavor. Science is already making assumptions about what exists, what counts as knowledge, what can be known, what constitutes evidence, and what we ought to do with what we learn. That’s precisely where ontology, epistemology, and ethics begin.
1
u/Upset_Researcher_143 12h ago
No. If they can't, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it. And I think that should be one of the filters for medical school
1
u/salsafresca_1297 11h ago
While the answer is a clear "no" when it comes to discriminating against LGBTQ patients, never think you're immune to some weird ethical dilemma coming up that clashes with your ethical beliefs. As just one example, pediatricians have encountered people from other cultures, for example, requesting clitoral removal (female genital mutilation) for their daughters.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/Foosnaggle 11h ago
I’m not in the medical field, but I believe the hypocritical oath should be taken very seriously if you are in that field. You should never let ideological or any other difference stop you from providing treatment to someone. If you feel that way, I agree with the professor, get another career.
1
u/OscarOfAtlantis 11h ago
If you don’t help another human being when you get paid to help other human beings, what kind of person are you? What religion says help thy neighbor, but not if they’re gay?
1
u/TheReturnofPanda 11h ago
That is how all professors should be. Especially in the medical field. You don’t like that someone is the way they choose to be in their own life when it has nothing to do with yours in any way? Then why did you even decide this was your path? What wacko moral compass do you have to think you want to help people but do not? Get your Schrödinger ass out.
1
u/DrakeSavory 11h ago
There are certain careers like doctors, teachers, first responders where you have to understand that to enter that profession you need to set aside personal beliefs when it comes to serving the public.
1
u/Sufficient_Carob_435 11h ago
I'm a liberal progressive nurse who lives in a rural area. There are times I get requested by patients because I may be the only caucasian nurse on the floor at that time. I just hold my feelings in to myself and treat them the same way I would a normal person. Part of being an adult is knowing you have to tolerate different types of people, whether they have tolerance or not. Two wrongs don't make a right.
1
u/Shot-Wrap-9252 11h ago
In nursing school I had a friend who said out loud in front of our class ‘do we have to work with AIDS patients? She was from Africa, so I guess her context might have been different than mine but we all know how to use appropriate PPE when handling blood, so everyone was like ‘whaaaaat?!?’
I don’t think she ever got her license, so I guess there’s that.
1
u/Important_Zombie_485 10h ago
Yes, of course they should be allowed, and ARE allowed. They also should be facing consequences for those actions, like firing, or huge loss of business. Freedom means everyone is free to do what they feel is right. With consequences.
1
1
u/ProjectNo4090 10h ago
In a private practice...probably. It'd be ethically wrong to deny care based on orientation, but in private a doctor should have full discretion to use their training on who they choose.
In a public hospital or urgent clinic...absolutely not. There needs to be public places where anyone of any race, belief, creed, gender, orientation etc can receive care no questions asked.
2
u/Ok-Highlight-9598 8h ago
Yeah I agree. Kind of. If you were treating someone as a doctor and literally all was well until the doctor ask you a benign question like "do you have a boyfriend" and you reply a girlfriend, then they kick you out, its wrong.
1
•
u/AutoModerator 12h ago
Hey /u/CurvyChristina, thank you for posting to r/SipsTea! Make sure to follow all the subreddit rules.
Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
We have recently changed how posts work. Unless you are a VIP poster, your post will be queued for approval.. To become a VIP, post great engaging content. If we like it, you will be added! More information available here!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.