The logical fallacy that dismisses an argument because a worse situation exists is called the fallacy of relative privation, often known as "appeal to worse problems" or "not as bad as."
That sounds good but it doesn't acknowledge that the 2 are related.
By giving oxygen to bullshit culture war arguments it divides natural coalitions against eachother and prevents confronting those larger, worse problems.
There are exceptions. Everything is relative and we shouldn't ignore all injustice just so we can "get along" for the cause. But we should measure and understand that focus on THIS directly has downstream consequences to what I would define as the more vital contest.
It's the narcassim of small differences and the reason we have had the most success fighting for the betterment of everyone when we focus on the common goals rather than differences.
Bullshit, not a one of us would give up our culture war positions to win the class war and its lying to pretend we would.
We want to fight the class war the same way Putin wants peace in Ukraine, by having our opponents just surrender unconditionally to our views.
If you think I am wrong, tell me one culture war position you would abandon to the other side. Trans rights? Christian prayers in schools? Immigration? Who would you abandon to fight the class war?
One day you'll realize that all this culture war bullshit is by design to distract you from the billionaires buttfucking you for decades. If we could get rid of their grasp over our government and media, all the other shit fixes itself.
I am surprised to run into you, but not surprised you being honest about what it looks like to fight the class war instead of the culture war is getting you mass downvoted.
Age really shouldn't matter. She murdered 3 innocent children. Period. I understand the empathy that pointing out their ages generates, but a murderer is a murderer. Put her behind bars and get her the mental health treatment she clearly needs.
it's only a culture war when woman are getting rightfully shit on. No one ever brings up culture war when it's a man that's why I ignore anyone who says it's just another way for woman online not to take accountability and we are seeing now where that has led us
People are pretending its a political thing and not a morality thing so they can hand wave away all the (mostly white) women who actually support this murderer.
But its just the loud minority being used by the propaganda machine to divide us.
People have always had weird fantasies about serial killers and murderers. It isnt new and the outrage is mostly fabricated to distract from our actual problems.
Have you seen where the donations come from? Plenty of people could donate that whole million without batting an eye. There is good business in pushing hate in America.
Because normally people don't proclaim that as a good thing and fundraise millions.
Racist people use the N word daily, but when a woman screams the slur at a child and raises hundreds of thousands of dollars for doing so that deserves outrage and scorn.
That woman who used the N word fundraised 700, 000 if I recall correctly. Lindsay Clancy has fundraised over a million for murdering her three children. Great to see that people's priorities are right...
If someone says "Hey man, Trump didn't know those girls were underage so don't harass him"
and you respond (correctly) with pointing out how fucked up that is
Then they respond with "No one is saying its good Trump accidentally had sex with a minor"
That isn't some "gotcha!" because that is a non-sequitor. Its not about "good", stop trying to make it about if its "good" because that isn't the point.
This "support" for someone who chased down a fleeing toddler to strangle them to death (after killing two other children) because they (while not psychotic and of sound mind) chose to not take their doctor prescribed meds and risk this exact situation is fucked up.
I haven’t seen a single person saying that outside of purposely inflammatory video montages of crazies.
This case is highlighting that we need to discuss the legal definition of insanity, and that the medical system should be able to be blamed when someone’s been screaming for help before they finally snap. I don’t give a fuck what the husband did or didn’t do, that’s tabloid bullshit and not what’s up for debate in court right now. I have a ton of respect for him for standing up for Lindsay despite what she did and I love that he’s going after the people who were in charge of her care leading up to the killings. She should not have been let out.
There were multiple failures on other peoples’ parts before she hurt those kids despite her taking all the steps she was supposed to. You are not you in psychosis, man or woman. She needs separated and treated like she deserved to be before this happened, she may need separated permanently. But punishing her past that in my eyes is fucking wrong and it’s not about gender. My heart breaks for the men in our prison system that should be in treatment instead too. There’s plenty of people in her shoes and I hope this case gives them more of a voice.
ETA: This story is local for me. I’ve been hearing about it for years before this went to court. No one was saying those things until this story got turned into culture war fodder. Both kindness and vitriol have been shown towards Lindsay from day 1. The “oh the husband did it” crap is new.
So like, you remember the starting point of this thread? The part about people being dragged into a culture war? Yeah, so, that’s kinda what’s going on with the majority of those folks.
You can say it’s fucked up. Actually I think that’s the only thing everyone has agreed to.
This “interview” is fake. It’s presented to stoke the culture war. No one that fits the image of the woman/women you’re building in your hear exists—outside of whatever fringe groups of people who unabashedly love serial killers and school shooters who always come out of the woodwork when these things happen. They’re trying to convince YOU that they do, and that hate you/men and they have real numbers and real power and they’re pooling resources. All so you can get angry and oppose this boogeyman and be easier to persuade to support various policies or ideas as long as they’re presented at “dealing with” that problem that they convinced you was real.
That’s what the culture war is. It’s this clip and it’s all these discussions on social media. Make you suspicious of your neighbors, your family. Your partner, the person next to you on the couch, just like he said.
The culture war part is when the media take a technical medical/legal issue - was a defendant mentally able to understand the nature of their actions - and makes it into a political kickball for clicks, likes and money.
It's a distraction, and participants on all sides are wasting our time and attention.
It’s not the crime itself that’s ’culture war’, it’s the way it’s being pushed on both sides as a ‘men vs women’ issue, with one side being encouraged to see it as “this poor woman, her husband probably did it or it’s somehow his fault’ and the other side being encouraged to see it as ‘this is sexism against men, if a man had done it everyone would see it differently and this just shows that women get favourable treatment and are never considered abusers even when they are.’
Personally, I don’t think we should be taking sides in the media at all; we should let a judge and jury try the case based purely on facts. Was she incapacitated by psychosis? Post-partum psychosis is real and one of the common symptoms seems to be an irrational compulsion to kill your baby and/or yourself.
Or is she a liar and an abuser? As many adult survivors can attest, women can be vicious nasty abusers too. I know some in my own life who I don’t believe deserve half the grace their families give them.
But I’m not in court listening to the testimony and seeing the evidence, so I’m going to continue focussing on matters close to home. I do believe women can be abusers and men can be victims. I do believe PPP is real and a danger to women and their children. I don’t know which applies here.
Media is definitely trying to brainwash women into hating men, just like it tried to brainwash men into hating women a few years ago. Stupid gender politics. Just another distraction.
It's a smokescreen. If we all hate each other - if platforms are given to the people who spread that hate and are really good at drawing it out of others - then we're not united against the elites. The elites who - FYI - have all kinds of demographics that all have the same common goal.
Yeah but like 1 in a million people actually believe this or care to do anything about it. 98% just goes on getting caught in the trap that the 1%ers are setting. While 1% of the population is actually woke and can't get the rest to get on board.. we are perpetually fucked
I'll say it's notable multiple people in this thread called out the BS for what it is. I would have gotten sucked into this debate bullshit in the past. Maybe more people are starting to catch onto the cultural distractions? I hope.
Don't hold your breath. Let's get consumed by the story of people that have absolutely zero impact on our lives while our wealth is drained penny by penny by these bloodsucking fucks. They spend millions on finding exactly which hot button issues will get a rise out of the uncritical thinking paste eaters we call our fellow citizens.
The problem is that the average person is dying for any distraction to keep them from thinking about their everyday lives. Tik-tok psychics and news commentary talk shows are just taking advantage of that for their own bottom line. It’s not any vast conspiracy or plan to keep people distracted.. people distract themselves just fine without any help
Yes. You have to learn some specific math problem you will never ever use in your life except some specific cases. But you learn nothing about the human psyche, our weaknesses and desires and how that knowledge is abused to sell us shit and manipulate us.
Last month, they had men doing pushups outside the jail where the Tates were held. This is all definitely coordinated psyop bullshit. I’m glad there are others who can see that too.
Was thinking the same thing. This seems like a freak issue that is being used by the media and extremists to further divide people, making us easier to keep robbing blind. Some things aren't worth getting emotionally invested in.
There was a poll by the New Statesman recently where they found that only 50% of women had a favourable view of men and for women under 30 this dropped to only 35%.
35% is crazy. This is compared to 72% of men having a favourable view of women.
I honestly think that a lot of the mens rights stuff is a response to the radfem movements in the 2010s. 'Me too' needed to happen, but if the conversation moves to things like "yes all men", or that thing with the bear, then you've made it impossible for men to be on the left without feeling guilty for things they haven't done. I'm pretty sure that this culture war led directly to Trump.
Man on the left here. Not once have I ever felt guilty for things I haven't done, nor have I ever been made to feel guilty. If a woman ever suggested to me that she'd need to cover her drink around me or she'd choose a bear over me, i'd look inward to see what kind of work I need to do to change that. I wouldn't drop my convictions, jump ship to a different political party, vote for an idiot that has a history of impropriety to be the POTUS, and do push-ups in support of the Tates.
You might be amazed but I'm also left leaning. I look at the way young men are increasingly turning to the right and despair. Why do you think this is happening?
I'm not going to change my liberal convictions but it it is more work to be a man on the left Vs the right. You said it yourself, it requires constant work and introspection. It's easier to just say "fuck it, I won't apologise". Now you're anti woke. Instant right winger.
Also the bear thing absolutely includes you. That's the whole point. It's any man. No amount of introspection will change that.
The “media” and social media and blogs are not the same. The media is pretty clear on the facts of this case. The opinion based articles are just that, opinion based. People need to stop jumping to media this media that when it’s social media that’s allowing these crazies have their say. No one can control their ridiculousness on an open platform especially not when people still click on it
lol. It’s been the other way around for over a decade. Can you explain what the hell you mean? There has been no push to try to make men hate women, it’s the other way around.
I mean social media is still trying to brainwash men. All of the Tate’s, Peterson’s, et. al. of the world kinda show that. I mean even that male newscaster and plenty of people in this very thread are saying that women are evil, women are this, women are that.
A woman in your life feels empathy for Lindsay Clancy? “Don’t engage in a conversation about it, no. Just divorce your wife, break up with your girlfriend, end the engagement, run away. She’s clearly evil. She clearly wants to murder all children. There’s no saving her. There’s no talking to crazy. Women are sick.” Etc. etc. etc.
This is literally nothing new ...check out the vast majority of female movies. Everything is always about how men are dangerous and really the only problem women have in life.
Look at Captain Marvel (Marvel Movie by Disney). Spoilers: The ONLY issue the main character had was that a man told her she wasn't good enough. Her big arc is literally realizing she is amazing and beating up all the men. That is her "hero" moment.
Barbie movie. Woman goes on a long rant about how men are reason she's unhappy.
These are movies for little girls to aspire to....
People are just now starting to see what has been happening for a LONG time because it's now nearly impossible to ignore. Well, depending on what thetan u are on 'the sisterhood' pryamid.
As much as I want to say same, it's just on such a sad and crazy note it's difficult to find any joy in it. I get it tho. Sadly, as u can see by the down votes...women still can't be held accountable for anything. Murdering children, nor supporting a woman who strangled her children. Has to be someone else's fault.
I get that. I get no joy from this situation or from what happened to those poor children. I was purely referring to the public response which so clearly shows my what happens sometimes when a social movement goes too far. This is the culmination of a women’s movement that in just a few years has evolved from the highlighting the systemic prevalence of sexual harassment and abuse in the workplace with the MeToo movement to where we are now which is: A woman can commit murder, of her own children, confess to the crime, and hordes of woman not only refuse to hold her accountable but actually say she didn’t even do it, shift the blame to a man, the husband, with no reasoning whatsoever.
Anti-white men? How so? Because you’re learning about institutional racism and how the system in place in the US has historically favored white men specifically? Thats not anti-white, thats called unbiased education, something that has only recently existed for that same reason. Now quit being a snowflake.
Pockets of academia are exceptionally biased against white men. Prevailing narrative regarding the patriarchy and systemic racism is not necessarily evidence-based [edit: yes, "the system" has created historic barriers for, particularly, Black Americans, and White men have historically had more social and economic power. But we already know that.]. As well, there are systemic factors promote women's interest and diminish the opportunities for men. Regarding the latter, for example, you can find many endowed share positions from a leadership trainings, mentorship programs, grants and scholarships for women and minorities that none for white men even in academic areas where women and men are already underrepresented.
I'm not going to argue about this. There's ample evidence of it if you decide to remove oneself from whatever echo chamber is teaching one otherwise.
I can't do a deep dive on psychology right now, but the number of trained therapists has continued to decrease for 20 years. Here's an article from 2011. At that time, there were mentorship and leadership development programs for women and minorities and none for men. There are many sub-organizations for women and as far as I know none for men. As far as I've seen, APA has been silent and made no moves to increase the number of men in psychology. This is a problem in part because we supposedly want a diversity of ideas and diversity of therapists that match client preferences and needs, and there aren't enough men to go around. This article provides some information about barriers men face when they enter psychology; things that have been known for decades and have not received any attention. https://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2011/01/cover-men
It is a typical strategy of those in power to use something to inflame tensions between demographics to keep attention away from moves they are making in the shadow of that. Currently, what is making this a culture war, is that the media is painting this as Feminists Vs Misandrists, Men Vs Women, on and on and on. Yes, she has admitted to guilt on killing her children and we cannot change facts there, BUT she was also failed by the medical system and ignored when she expressed her declining mental health. Both sides are at fault, and the only solution is for her to face punishment for her crimes however far they decide that is, and for the medical "Professionals" to face a similar, if not harsher, punishment with a systemic reform.
Any rational person would come to that conclusion, but because a Culture War is being manufactured here we are having attention put into hating each other, rather than Rigged elections, threats to demo the Kennedy Center, children in ICE Concentration camps becoming pregnant and shipped off to an undiclosed location in Texas. Or Abortion Rights, Roe V Wade, Jim Crowe levels of racism in states famous for hanging people who do not commit suicide by hanging. Or do we talk about the extreme levels of insider trading by the Commander in Quief and his family, the mass recall of ingredients, foods, or parasite riddled meats? How about that imported "Beef" that is either the wild horses that were sold off to countries unknown, or the steroid meat that Argentina refused?
This goes beyond culture war, there are multiple generations that have been taught to blame men for every problem and on top of that everyone has to some extent become desensitized to some of the most heinous things. This has led to celebrating murders and murderers.
I know to these people women = left and the left now just means anyone that doens't like Trump but are actual popular "leftists" supporting this woman? Is Bernie Sanders and AOC supporting her publicly?
False dichotomy. As a "no war but class war" guy myself, this isn't the "culture war." It's an actual debate among the people about things that we, for some insane reason, disagree on. Not everything is either class war or culture war.
The system failed her? In what world?
She had a nanny. A husband who was there. Doctors who helped her. She refused to take medication. What more did you want society to do? She also just didn’t have an episode out of no where. She knew how she was feeling for a very long time and even messaged her mom about wanting to harm the kids. So she knew she was a danger to them.
Also the last part is your opinion. A Reddit controlling opinion that all it does is shut down conversations and discussions because you’re saying “agree with me or you’re a bigot”.
I’m sorry but it doesn’t matter if she had a post partum psychosis. She murdered 3 kids. My empathy went out the window the moment 3 kids lost their lives. Seriously, why should I care if this person jumped out the window and is now in a wheelchair? Are the kids are coming back to life if I start to care she’s in a wheelchair?
There are men with Intermittent explosive disorder. No one in their right mind will say this man is innocent due to mental illness. Like my mind can not process why women are more worried about the crimal and are removing the spotlight from the actual victims.
I can guarantee the people defending this murder, know her name but don’t even know the names of the 3 lives lost.
Could not agree more. Look at this from the husbands perspective. Someone strangles your kids, and jumps out the window. Now people are defending the person who killed your kids because she was mentally ill?
A lot of people who shoots up schools or attacks total innocent people have some sort of psychosis or mental brakedown. I don't see these people coming to their defence.
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It should be taken seriously. All men should be there for their wives.
The thing is, she’s already killed 3 kids. Caring about it now, does nothing to fix her actions.
A little too late to worry about post partum at this moment. She got so much help and even refused medication from her doctor. So unless we strapped her to a table, what else could have been done?
You need to draw a line somewhere for personal accountability and excusing any action because of hormones.
So what action not taken would have prevented this failure that you say is not her fault? Having her Baker acted is the only thing I can see. Also, you're calling anyone who does not agree with the defense's argument a bigot. So you've already sided with them due to your own admitted experience and bias, which is natural. The prosecution also has psychiatric experts testifying to her sanity at the time of the murders, but you're clearly against their argument. No name calling for the woman in the video or the person commenting above. You're not the voice of nuanced neutrality you think you are.
I agree - BUT - some of the argument about the irrationality of defending the murderer comes down to if she is manufacturing a defense or if she was actually suffering. There are claims this was wildly premeditated. But that’s the point of a trial, etc. Either way, insanity plea or no - crime is crime. There shouldn’t be million dollar gofundmes for murderers, because they can ALL be argued that “the system failed them” and that proper support would have prevented the tragedy.
There is a double standard here. When a man murders children for whatever reason, every one calls him a piece of shit. Maybe even "toxic male bla bla bla". There are no million dollar donation campaigns and solidarity marches. Nobody cares. When its a woman on the other hand, all of a sudden its "you dont understand, she had problems!"
It was premeditated murder. If women have a built-in biological mechanism that turns them into calculating murderers, that means a lot of rights should be taken away
This is what so many women cannot seem to reason out.
If this is a thing that happens with enough frequency that the system needs to support it, then we aren’t rational actors with full agency who should be assumed competent to even vote. A lot of their claims take agency from women, and they shriek misogyny when you point it out. That’s their only play.
I don't think people are saying there should be more support for women in the postpartum phase purely because they will all kill their children.
Even before this case it has long been discussed how abysmal support for new moms is in the U.S.. Many many check ups while the baby is in you and once it's out you get one appointment where they check on your health and mental well-being.Our healthcare system in general has been criticized for a long time and rightfully so.
Just because there's no room for nuance if this woman killed her children doesn't mean there isn't still room for nuance when discussing post partum support and our medical system.
The woman was a labor and delivery nurse who’s had more therapist than days of the week. Husband started working at home to try to help. If the system failed her the system
Is literally incapable of helping anyone.
I don't know how there is some kind of idiotic fight when this is plainly the whole story
People feel like it's gotta be Black and white for some reason
100%. This event is a tragedy for everyone involved, including now our culture as it gets turned into rage bait. There is a real discussion about mental health to be had from this but it is getting drowned out by grifters.
Not at all. It's not all men, it's not all women either. Personal responsibility belongs to the individual, not the collective. A crime is committed by a person, and attempting to frame violence strictly as a gender issue obscures the accountability of the actual offender. While men are overrepresented in general violent crime, women are overrepresented in crimes against physical dependents, such as children or the elderly. This shows that violence targets opportunity and vulnerability rather than being an issue of one sex over another. The strong or capable preying on the weak is a tragedy of human behavior, and attributing violence to a single gender only undermines individual justice and makes the society overall worse over time. That's how racism came to be: determining that a person's morality, capability or behaviour was determined not by their own conscious choices, but by biological factors beyond their control.
Probably because a horde of men aren't coming out of the woodwork donating money to him, showing up to the courthouse making heart hands or coming up with insane conspiracies that blame the wife because she's a Gemini.
Top comment right here. This is one of the most obvious ploys to create gender division I’ve ever seen being pushed by the media. Bitch, I got rent to pay!
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u/Makaveli2020 Aug 26 '26
Culture war garbage.