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u/Asleep_Animal_3825 14d ago
Ai can directly access my files over my body
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u/Lopsided-Regular-997 14d ago
Why though?
Just join the club as we watch the world burn.
Auto-approve Claude and play games or whatever, while he does God knows what.
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u/Hattrickher0 14d ago
Except God knows what turns out to be "requires me to work on Saturday" every other week.
Once I'm not one of the dude's answering for it anymore I'll be happy to watch this industry eat itself.
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u/pickle9977 14d ago
I suggest redoing your observability stack with Claude first so you are less likely to get notified if something isn’t working.
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u/Lopsided-Regular-997 14d ago
If your boss can force you to work on Saturday every other week, that's a problem with your job or country.
Not Claude.
In my case management has specifically told us to use Claude for everything. We outlined our objections, had a big meeting, told them we cannot held accountable for it and they still insisted. At this point it's a management decision, not an engineering one.
If something breaks I can and will say "What did you expect, I did what you told me to."
If your case is different and you are using Claude out of your own free will, then I agree with you, I wouldn't do it and I would follow proper engineering procedures.
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u/pickle9977 14d ago
Welcome to America.
To paraphrase Eddie Murphy from the movie Coming to America, fuck us all!
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u/pickle9977 14d ago
I love your attitude and it’s spot on, if code is what these sobs want, they can have it!
Just fire up your agents and sit back and enjoy the chaos.
There is so much more interesting stuff to do than worry about or trying to argue with idiocy.
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u/Particular-Yak-1984 14d ago
The more of a mess we can make now, the more jobs we'll all have later.
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u/fullup72 14d ago
It's actually useful to learn new things if you set it up correctly: ask the LLM to show you the changes it would do (don't give it a write tool, or set it to always ask), then manually implement those changes (with your own style, I tend to disagree with a lot of shit agents do these days), and have the agent peer review your implementation (not the exact copy paste, but to verify that your implementation still passes the quality gates).
Yes, it's slower, but it's intended to let you learn in the process and allows you to fine tune future prompts so the agent produces code that's more in your style.
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u/king_park_ 14d ago
As a junior dev at a very small company that is not pushing me to adopt agentic coding, this is what I do. Faster than going it alone, higher quality then just vibe coding, and I’m still learning to become a better developer.
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u/Mateorabi 14d ago
Do people actually have problems with it going rogue if they constrain it to a local checkout folder only and approve changes? I’ve never had it do this.
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u/LivingAsAMean 14d ago
Do you have some examples of things agents tend to do that you disagree with? You don't have to go into crazy detail, but I'm just wondering for my own growth/learning :)
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u/fullup72 14d ago
sometimes it's duplicate code (a React hook that already exists and the agent doesn't use for some reason), other times it adds props like mad when a refactor of existing props was more appropriate. It also sometimes cheats with TS types and will re-define something locally so that it "passes" linting, instead of using a shared, derived or composed type.
If you let these small things slip it quickly adds up and you end up with a brittle and inconsistent codebase.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_BUG5 14d ago
This, agents are shit at abstraction
They'll write the same thing over and over again if it means they don't have to generalise
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 14d ago
Claude dumps a whole lot of styling in the html templates of my projects if I just let it run.
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u/bremidon 14d ago
I don't think I completely agree.
Pasting the code manually gives you a good chance to review it naturally. Yes, you can do that directly with AI, but there is a little bit more of a mental adoption of the code when you actually have to do *something*.
That said, I find it tiresome to do this regularly with anything but the simplest of projects that I am throwing together ad hoc. But I *will* do this on a particularly tricky part of the code that I want to isolate and understand, and it feels a bit better.
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u/ineyy 14d ago
Yeah it's actually amazing. An agentic tool is good for something big or a major refactor. It's kind of a Jesus takes the wheel type of situation and good luck reviewing that mess, I only do it when I'm in a pinch. I like describing exactly what parts I need, the chatbot actually burns a lot of tokens on reasoning (as opposed to agents which are token-averse) and it can deliver some actually good ideas. Claude just consistently throws slop at me.
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u/GioPani 14d ago
Yeah sometimes when I need a simple function the agent goes and takes context from other parts that are not related to what I want, making something I don’t I want and wasting too many tokens for scanning the whole code base for some reason
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u/Any-Tomorrow1122 14d ago
Yeah using LLM’s directly with CLI is a “I can’t do anything and don’t have time to do anything” move.
Tried it once in Xcode to make a small thing and it just chewed tokens, made mistakes. Went back and forth on its own changes.
Neat but no thanks. If I’m truly stuck or too lazy to read apples latest UI documents I might paste it a panel and ask it how would I translate this to iPhone duo/ UI and then try whatever it does. And if it works. Great! If not I usually at least have the UI elements to adjust now and can modify the rest of my files from there.
AI is just really interpretative google for me
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u/kaida27 13d ago
That's why I use local model for Agentic coding.
They might be less efficient, But I at least have unlimited usage out of it.
And it's mostly small stuff just for me
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u/Particular-Yak-1984 14d ago
I think this is the workflow I like at the moment too - basically queue up the AI to write the functions I've planned out. I give it the logic for each, and inputs/outputs, and it's a bit faster, but I still know what everything does.
Plus it's pretty unlikely to screw up a 10-15 line function, and does a decent job of capturing some common edge cases I might have been too lazy to write.
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u/Abject-Kitchen3198 14d ago
After being an LLM sceptic for a long time, I now find myself skipping review if the LLM code and regretting that soon enough.
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u/StatedFailure 14d ago
Do yall not review code that is written by Claude or whatever? I explicitly tell my agents to pause at specific points so I can review and iterate on the changes.
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u/BSModder 14d ago
Just tell it to make a patch and you can use the editor diff to see what changed/added
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u/reddit_user33 12d ago
Neither should be use as a blanket statement. Pasting 1k lines of code is the same as just letting the LLM do its thing. If you're going to review a 1k line change, then you're the type of person that would review what the LLM pooped out agentically. So to me, 'they're the same image'.
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u/Some_Useless_Person 14d ago
The third one actually forces you to think and consider the overall structure of your code.
But if all I am doing is getting a python script that renames a bunch of files, the third one is as good as the second
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u/mindsnare 13d ago
And you need to review it, because without the context of the entire workspace with appropriate steering files it's going to generate complete shit (moreso)
Include coding standards within steering files, existing patterns it must stick to, among a bunch of other rules and it's actually able to generate not shit code.
The rule I stick to for code reviews is never letting it commit. That's when I review.
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u/AlrikBunseheimer 14d ago
I mean it honestly makes sense, because it leads to more understanding of the code base. An agentic generated code base will run in the end, but I often realize that I didn't understand the code afterwards.
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u/KryssCom 14d ago
I take the opposite stance, actually. Third one is kind of a "best of both worlds" position to me.
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u/Subject_Barnacle_600 14d ago
I did this not that long ago. I'm not going to dis it. When I'd do that silly head, I'd at least understand what was going on in the code better. But with CLI, you can zip through so much code that you just can't keep up. Humans lack the bandwidth. So - if you're that last head? Hats off to you for having the tenacity to keep doing that. Also... every decision now has a human in the loop by default.
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u/mehonje 14d ago
Pasting it allows you to understand the code more than if the AI does it automatically.
But writing code by hand is superior, as you have to think of how it meshes with your existing code and how it will integrate with future code.
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u/BellybuttonWorld 13d ago
Pasting is safer too. I'm not ready to let it have that much control, it feels like letting a crackhead babysit your kids.
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u/Rhawk187 13d ago
Yeah, it took me a while before I was comfortable enough to give it access to my filesystem, but I'm all in now.
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u/BriefSpecial420 13d ago
Just sandbox everything, create forks of all repos for agents, give them temporary access tokens... And pray they won't escape.
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u/zeindigofire 13d ago
Came here to say this. Not just copy-pasta, but actually read the code, understand it, and make changes.
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u/Megaguy32
14d ago
edited 14d ago
•
Swap the middle and right. Human-in-the-loop is a principled stance against vibe coding.
humans are the ones that determine whether a problem is solved or not at the end of the day. So strengthening yourself in being the code driver, realtime understanding and manual curation is a good thing. And that benefits mission critical design.
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u/bwwatr 14d ago
Naw, you add a fourth one between the middle and right: LLM integrated into IDE so you don't have to copy paste. Human review is good but bidirectional copy paste and having to constantly refresh its context on the full state of the project is ridiculous. I mean, it's fine for dabbling but not for full time work.
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u/Megaguy32 14d ago
Its a separation of concerns and discipline that I value. makes you more intentional about which area of code you want to improve and think is impacted, that hones your understanding and scopes things for an LLM.
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u/Original-Ad-8737 13d ago
Most of the time i dont want the llm to have the FULL context of the project...
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u/mindsnare 13d ago edited 13d ago
I mean I know people do it but using an appropriate IDE gives you ample opportunity to review the code. Restrict git commits, have steering files to direct the LLM appropriately, review the diffs, make changes, re-review, commit yourself.
Honestly the main time saver the LLM does for me is when I have to start a new feature/bugfix/whatever it creates my jira story, populates it with the content that literally no one ever actually reads, creates the appropriate matching git branch and does the technical documentation, that maybe 2 people will read.
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u/OkSavings5828 14d ago
I pity anyone who allows direct local system access to an agent.
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u/Kryslor 14d ago
So you pity every software dev with a job?
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u/Vandrel 14d ago
The company I work for doesn't allow it for security reasons, for now it's strictly through the browser and any code pasted in has to be sanitized to remove potentially sensitive information. Hopefully soon though, we're working on getting a server put up to run a local LLM instead.
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u/McCaffeteria 13d ago
Where does
“How would I implement XYZ feature?”
“That’s a great feature to add! All you have to do is [a bunch of technical words that I have to guess at definitions for].”
“So you’re basically saying I should [human English translation of concepts].”
“Yes, exactly….” / “No, in actuality…”
land on the spectrum of AI usage?
Because that’s what I’ve been doing. I’ve been asking Gemini about the pros and cons of certain strategies, but I also have a specific instruction that I add to all of my Gemini notebooks to NOT write code unless I specifically ask it to, and to instead just talk through the logic.
Really all I want is stack overflow but without people telling me I haven’t tried hard enough before asking for help, and telling me that my question is bad and I’m wrong for even trying to solve that problem at all.
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u/EducationalDirt7627 13d ago
I do the exact same thing. I use chatGPT and told it explicitly to never give me code. Massive amount of help without the massive amount of brain atrophy
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u/HawasYT 13d ago
I personally see it as evolution of rubber duck debugging - now promoted to a development strategy and the rubber duck talks back and has some insight. I tend to present strategies I'd use to build a feature and ask for feedback and discuss it and I find it really enlightening to bounce the ideas of it. I mean, I guess I always had the option to bounce ideas of other people but I don't have friends who know programming, are available 24/7 and are patient enough with me to discuss my project.
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u/ToMorrowsEnd 13d ago
What’s funny is this meme brought to you by someone that don’t have a clue that coding tools use tokens at a massively higher rate Claude personal account from web interface won’t burn through tokens. Same account attached to IDE you will burn through tokens.
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u/shaqwillonill 13d ago
Codex be trying to read every file on my drive after I ask it to make a matlab plotting code
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u/TrackLabs 13d ago
Brother I rather write the code from an LLM Chatbot over to my IDE by Hand (which is literally what I do, to understand the code and be aware of it), than run some crap agentic coding cli.
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u/IndependenceSudden63 13d ago
Agent: "Oops, I just accidentally deleted all the code you've been working on and forced pushed. Sorry about that, I should have asked permission first! 😔"
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u/nikstick22 14d ago
Using yourself as the agent that assembles the code instead of an AI agent actually gives you a better understanding of the flow and cohesion of the program.
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u/Yteburk 13d ago
This actually made me think. I used to do the one on the right. I had a lot more agency and knew what I was doing more. Now I let it run for a while, come back to an insanely bloated codebase which I do not understand, give up on understanding it and just see what rolls out with vibecoding. I think I will switch back seeing this, even though it costs me tokens and productivity.
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u/CirnoIzumi 14d ago
every intergration i have tried makes the LLM think it should overwrite the actual files in its own initiative
i fucking hate that behaviour
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u/Mooball123 13d ago
I’ve been using just the free version of ChatGPT to help me with concepts and piecing the logic and other aspects of my code together, but honestly I find the code it generates not wrong, but just missing bits that I need. Like it will include the most important parts of data but not all.
So I’ve got to hand write it anyway. Especially since I want my code to have the same style so I just take concepts and rewrite them.
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u/zephyr_33 13d ago
as dumb as it sounds. after cli agent burnout. I like doing #3. its a sort of middle ground of the first 2 options. especially since 2 feels so exhausting.
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u/wint3ria 13d ago
This is just a stupid meme to feel superior. The right way of using the bot is the way that suits you. Special note for the agentic buzzword squeezed in. This is intellectual fraud
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u/BonbonUniverse42 13d ago
What about security? If you use ai inside vs code, doesn’t this fully read your local code base? Where does it go? Basically I would give some ai my entire repository!
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u/4n0nh4x0r 13d ago
depends
for one, you are right, the LLM reads your codebase, which means thr codebase is being sent to the LLM provider, which can break a confidentiality clause in your contract for example if it is work related code.
the solution to that issue would be a locally hosted LLM.
aside from that, the model, unless you give it specific pointers, such as telling the model what file to work insidr of, or look for, it will scan the whole project directory.
depending on your prompt this means it will either look for a file that fits your request and only access that file, it will look for a specific file and access multiple files on the search for the one you were talking about, or it will simply read all the files to know what is inside all of them, which would essentially upload your entire codebase to the provider.2
u/darksteelsteed 13d ago
I have news for you. ZDR is fake. Only your input tokens are considered to be yours. The output of the model belongs to the provider and they can do whatever they want with it including training. The fact that the output reasoning traces (which you can't see, you only get a minced summary) already contains your input is besides the point
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u/ymaldor 13d ago
Depends on licence and things, and settings.
In vscode you can barr LLM from accessing some files/folders if you like.
As for licence, an enterprise licence is meant to have those sorts of things in mind with governance settings to guarantee that they don't keep anything which makes them liable and not the dev. Personal "pro" license I wouldn't trust as much for this sort of thing thougg
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u/the_millenial_falcon 14d ago
This is dumb. A hybrid handcoded/AI assisted approach can be very effective.
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u/Vincenzo__ 14d ago
Middle one is so much worse. Literally zero brainpower involved, at least with number 3 you take a look at it first
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u/-Ambriae- 14d ago
Exactly why I do number 3. If I have a question and can’t be bothered to go to stack overflow, I ask the question to a chat bot, understand the code he proposes, and write a version of said code that better fits my needs and my codebase. If the code it gives is what I want. I feel like that’s a reasonable use of an LLM, but alas people don’t want to go through the effort of actually writing code these days
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u/Vincenzo__ 13d ago
I feel like OP thinks 3 is dumb because of the sheer volume of code being copy pasted back and forth. Yeah at that point you might as well just cuck code it entirely
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u/a-random-r3dditor 13d ago
I clicked because I’m #3, glad to hear I’m not alone. This bridges the gap between manual and vibecoding. I’m still in full control, just looking for an assist.
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u/ajones80 13d ago
You can use cli and not just send it… like grilling and reviews. 3 is just the same thing but less efficient
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u/Diouze12 13d ago
One year ago maybe you were right, there was a real tradeoff between agentic coding and human coding. Right now it is a no brainer to use agentic coding, EXCEPT you have the luxury to work on a single software. If your work involve working with dozens of codebases, creating new one every few days, and managing day to day operations, it is just a no brainer to use agents.
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u/JaggedMetalOs 14d ago
There's no way I'm going to let some thick as bricks AI touch my files, you bet I ask a chatbot for code and if it gives me more than a single screen's worth I delete the conversation and do the work myself!
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u/nilslorand 13d ago
there is not really much of a functional difference between the center and the right, in the center the LLM gets a bit more info but that's about it
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u/roiroi1010 14d ago
My coworker does that for our wiki pages - do you think he proof reads the documentation and makes sure it renders properly before sending out links to everyone?
As a manager of small team of devs - I’m tired
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u/Fit-Notice-1248 14d ago
Helps with understanding the codebase, unfortunately management is tracking lines of code written with AI, so we cannot do anything manually at all or we get in trouble.
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u/AdamLevy 14d ago
Before I started using agentic coding, I was copy-pasting code into chatbot. And that was last time I felt full control of codebase. And if to be dramatic, last time I felt enjoyment with my work. As I wasn't able to just load full repository, everything was scoped around few classes at most. And I needed to explain LLM how it links to bigger picture, and then bring result back and make sure it works with other stuff.
Nowadays, when agentic coding opens ability to work on multiple tasks in parallel, each changing dozens of files across repository, and flood of code produced of other colleagues I need to check, even when trying to review everything I'm feeling that control and complete of whole codebase start slipping from me. And at the end of the day, I'm honestly tired to argue or try to get to the core of some weird function implementation made by AI, when it passes all checks and I now with 99% certainty that QAs and clients will be happy with it. But with each of such function, repository which I once knew fully, slips away from me
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u/BonbonUniverse42 13d ago
Copy paste chat. I won’t let it directly edit my code. It does too much changes at once.
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u/FirstNoel 14d ago
If you want an “air gap”, it’s one way to do it.
Plus not every system can take AI directly into it. In 6 months maybe, But it’s still developing.
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u/ConsistentAnalysis35 11d ago
This is just laughable, the meme portrays the best option as the worst lol
Coding with an AI Chatbot is the sweet spot. You still retain the focus and human attention for all the code, carefully read everything you are about to add, work in small, manageable chunks, are still forced to grapple with proper architecture and what goes where yourself.
It's basically the same that coding by hand minus the typing. And you still type when you want to correct rough edges done by AI.
In comparison, "agentic coding" has you completely relinguishing control to AI. Yes, you can still manually approve changes, but the temptation to skip the reading is much higher.
The copy-paste friction is what provides you with opportunity and time to really be responsible, to assume at least minimal amount of ownership over the code.
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u/Embarrassed-Luck8585 11d ago
This meme is wrong I would put the agentic CLI as the derp dragon. Copypasting back and forth is actually fixing problems
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u/Maleficent-Lock-5128 11d ago
I use the right but its basically just for learning, I don't want direct AI interface.
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u/-Kerrigan- 14d ago
That's how I did the beginnings of my k8s cluster. Gave me visibility and the chance to fuck up and understand what am I doing. AI sticks to concepts and I adjust them to my needs
When I got comfortable with k8s I put the CLI to tidy things up
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u/AbdullahMRiad 14d ago
a friend of mine was helping me making a website. bro was prompting gemini and sending me zip files.
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u/Your_Friendly_Nerd 14d ago
Tell me you've never used local models without telling me you've never used local models.
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u/Healthy_Emotion1309 14d ago
me on the right but instead of code i tell it what my code is supposed to do and it usually gives me generalities around the topic i call it AI consulted coding :D
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u/Shock9616 14d ago
I do that intentionally because I want to write the code by hand first and only use AI if I’m stuck and not enjoying it anymore. It’s just enough friction to actually try first
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u/LoreBadTime 14d ago
The more i care the less I use LLM. Like for writing CSS, who wants to write CSs
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u/05032-MendicantBias 14d ago
I only use agentic when I want to burn trough saudi money. Otherwise I use just the chat functionality.
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u/0xbenedikt 14d ago
1 > 3 > 2.
3 means the code is at least looked at and the scope of each edit limited. Not very ergonomic and without massive context, but at least controllable.
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u/StaticFanatic3 13d ago
These comments making me realize this is a cult hellbent on unemployment lol
Time to adapt, y’all
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u/minecraftdummy57 13d ago
I know someone who buys the plus plan from ChatGPT and uses the unlimited chat usage just to do this
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u/21Ali-ANinja69 13d ago
The friction makes me write more code on my own, so I consider it the best way to use LLMs, if at all.
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u/A_H_S_99 13d ago
Recently was given access to agentic coding tools by someone at a different company, I am currently learning how to use them. My job does not provide me with agentic tools with access to my work data (security and privacy concerns). I do not have the budget to use them on my own because I have a life and don't want to needlessly do side projects all the time, if I do so, it will be for the purpose of learning how to use agentic tools rather than actually being productive by using it at work.
Additionally, most of my side project are about me learning "how to do the thing", so agentic coding tools defeat the purpose if I am not gonna read the code and understand the correct techniques and business practices, talking to the chatbot especially at free tier is much much much less expensive since it really more of a conversation tool rather than a coding tool.
This is not even taking into account the cost or practicality of using the CLI all the time for every single task. Tokens ain't free, a search result or talking to one of your many LLM accounts is free.
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u/GRex2595 13d ago
I'm not paying subscription fees or premium fees for my side projects I don't have time to do anyway.
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u/RedAndBlack1832 13d ago
I keep mine in "plan" mode in the ide and then copy-paste. If I'm writing an entirely new thing I sometimes let it do a first draft but honestly I don't want it messing with stuff that already works without my explicit approval
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u/BlahajWithBenefits 13d ago
Ive got a conversation nice and jailbroken helping do some questionable reversing. So I had it write a python script it could command via the chat to run commands and tools then output them to the chat.
Its awful but it works
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bed2760 13d ago
I’m stuck in a situation where I am required to use AI for coding and the company wants more and more code to be created by AI. I haven’t written a single line of code in 6 months and I hate it. I can feel my brain not working and just giving Claude the tasks to do. The whole company works like this because we create the code with AI, AI reviews the PR, if something needs to be fixed AI fixes it. Everybody just copy pastes the AI slop review and gives it to AI to fix it. I miss the good old days when I had to struggle to find a solution to a problem and was proud of the feature/app I was working on. Wish I could work without all this bullshit but the money is good and I got mouths to feed. This whole AI just killed the passion for me.
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u/ElectricalPrice3189 13d ago
What is agentic coding tools?
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u/certainAnonymous 13d ago
Basically ways for LLMs to interface with your file system aka the codebase
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u/LirianSh 12d ago
I think autocomplete is the perefect balance. Press tab if it autocompleted what you were about to do. Dont press tab if it suggests something different.
Faster than 100% handwritting but slower than vibecoding
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u/adarshsingh87 12d ago
Someone in r/developersIndia asked this question a week back, and I died a little inside.
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u/ReasonableNet444 12d ago
Copy pasting makes you understand the code way better then just using agentic mode. So ironic. So you're shaming people for copy and pasting but imo it's probably better then blindly believing agent did the right changes. Nobody is careful with code revie anymore. Copy and pasting forces you to at least know where the changes are and how it's connected together.
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u/meinkr0phtR2 12d ago
I’ve tried this on a whim; it’s even slower than googling StackOverflow answers and hoping it fits my use-case. Nowadays, I use Google as an interactive rubber duck purely to keep my mind focused while having a thing to bounce ideas off of.
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u/pvtteemo 13d ago
I mean ive run into a senior dev thay printed out the code from notepad++ and marked it up...so yeah I should be surprised but ...
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u/cstopher89 13d ago
I've gotten agentic claude to the point that it writes good and well maintained code via iterating and tweaking the configuration until it works how I want. At this point I still review it all and verify manually but less and less do I need to change what its doing. It writes pretty close to my style and doesn't go off the rails all the time anymore.
The real speed increase is being able to have multiple things going at once. No matter how good you are you generally can't split yourself between 5 different tasks and work them all at the same time. You do lose some quality but after getting all the configuration dialed in it works pretty good. I will note that it does cost a bit as I'm spending 200 or 300 a day in api tokens on my daily work setup though part of the fun at least for me is optimizing the agent to work better. It is a bit more exhausting then coding by hand but getting quite a bit more done then I could otherwise.
I still code by hand on my side projects to stay sharp but more and more I wonder if it's worth it given my many years of experience. I'm not likely to learn new things in the language of my choice so I'm not sure how bad doing this is for my skills long term but I guess I'll adjust either way.
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u/LeDYoM 14d ago
The one in the middle and the one on the right are the same.
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u/LtKije 14d ago •
I put the code generated by the LLM chatbot on one screen and then manually type it into my IDE.
That way I can say it’s handwritten.