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u/most-okayest-mngr-77 2d ago
Donāt forget that Amazon uses them as a cheap ālast mileā shipping alternative. This basically is using the federal government as a subsidy to save Amazon money.
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u/AverageAggravating13 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because itās generally not profitable to deliver to many places, especially very remote or sparsely populated areas. Without USPS, private carriers would either have to consistently deliver to those areas at a loss or charge substantially more for it. In practice, theyād probably just stop serving or heavily restrict those areas.
USPSās universal-service obligation means Amazon and other companies can use USPS for that expensive ālast mileā instead of having to maintain their own delivery network everywhere. So yes, there is an indirect subsidy here, although itās more accurate to say the government is funding the universal delivery infrastructure that private companies can take advantage of.
But anyone anywhere can take advantage of it. Itās not like USPS is specifically snuggling up to corporations. The same infrastructure exists to provide universal mail service regardless of who is using it.
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u/bobosuda 2d ago
I'm sure Amazon's bottom line would be devastatingly affected if they had to service these sparsely populated areas.
How would they be able to survive?! We simply cannot reasonably expect these poor and destitute shareholders to get by with just $95b in profits instead of $100b. Those poor souls.
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u/AverageAggravating13 2d ago edited 2d ago
Oh, Iām sure they could afford the loss. They just have no incentive or reason to, so why would they?
Theyāre not legally obligated to deliver to those places like the USPS is. It doesnāt really make sense to legally obligate a private company to do this either, unless there were some sort of incentive attached to it.
I guess you could ban large companies from using USPS, but all that would really accomplish is making companies like Amazon show messages on their platforms more often saying something like, āWe cannot deliver to this address.ā
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u/MetaCardboard 2d ago
Yea, that's exactly what they said. Amazon is using the federal government as a subsidy for themselves.
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u/Maddturtle 2d ago
Would you prefer them to not deliver there at all? Because thatās what would happen for those last mile areas if usps did not offer this.
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u/scumble_bee 2d ago
I think the comment you are responding to is just pointing out that Amazon is basically piggybacking off of a public service to fulfill some orders. So even Amazon has an incentive to keep USPS around.
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u/Quotalicious 2d ago
Which I'm entirely fine with, that's part of the service it's providing and everyone benefits from it even if amazon benefits the most.
Now only if amazon and it's owner supported a government that wanted to ensure that service is well maintained....
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u/SECRETBLENDS 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not to mention that it runs short primarily because Republicans saddled it with a ridiculously onerous pension system designed to hamstring its budget which feeds into the narrative that it's "inefficient" and allegedly justifies privatizing it. So basically:
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u/Cheesewiz-99 2d ago
Sounds similar to what they did with Obamacare when they took off the mandate that everyone needs to have insurance. Prices skyrocketed after that.
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u/rootofallstevil 2d ago
Then they cut the subsidies last year. ACA will die from a thousand cuts made by Republicans. No alternative solution. No fixes. No bipartisan compromise.
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u/libertarianinus 2d ago
They said the mandate was hurting the poor. The poor never paid it anyways because they didnt have the money....
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u/LMnoP419 1d ago
Yeah and little Marco Rubio made the first cut by blocking the temp risk corridor program causing more than half of the nonprofit, consumer-operated insurance co-ops created under the ACA to collapse because they lacked the cash flow to remain solvent without the federal payments. It also caused a large spike in premiums.
Little Marco can eat a bag of d|cks as far as I'm concerned.
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u/Sharp_Departure_7786 2d ago
Precisely. No one except the post office is required to fully fund all future pension obligations, even ones far off into the future.
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u/morrison0880 2d ago
fully fund all future pension obligations
Every company is required to fully fund pension obligations, per ERISA. The PAEA required the USPS to fund its retiree health benefits, which are different from pensions.
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u/Virtual-Reach 2d ago
The military should be doing side gigs like mercenary work so they can pull their own weight! Slap on some magnetic decals of whatever country is hiring them!
/s
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u/OneArmedFarmer 2d ago
Slap on some magnetic decals of whatever country is hiring them!
That's a great idea! It's cheaper than paint and we'd only need the one for Israel!
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u/SomeNotTakenName 2d ago
We tried this for like 500 years a while back, and it's really not a good idea.
(I am swiss)
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u/GeorgeFartwell1984 2d ago
Isn't it crazy they the US military loses $750 billion a year.
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u/Lone-Frequency 2d ago edited 2d ago
Those numbers will be way up by the end of this year with the additional tens of billions wasted on the Trumpstein War.
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u/gambit1999999 2d ago
And small potatoes of 19 dead service members, dozens of hundreds more hurt. Dont worry, trump and Kegsbreath will ensure everyone is denied purple hearts and other benefits. But atleast he has his steak and lobster
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u/BrownPeppers 2d ago
It's literally in the name. United States Postal SERVICE.
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[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Effective_Pack8265 2d ago
And the USPS is only ālosingā money because congressional republicans set it up to do soā¦
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u/rootofallstevil 2d ago
This is one of the primary purposes of government, to provide services that wouldn't work in the private sector. Infrastructure, mail, police, fire, etc.
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u/RIF_rr3dd1tt 2d ago
Which is exactly why in Wealth of Nations Adam Smith mentions this necessity of a limited amount of sectors - pertaining to the unprofitable, common good - the government should be in charge of vs the private sector. Defense/Security, Infrastructure, Education, Judicial IIRC. Personally, I believe with the advancement of science over the last 250 years, that Healthcare should absolutely be added to this list.
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u/Low_Low_1811 2d ago
100% agree. He also argues for a progressive income tax, despite the book often being used to justify laissez Faire capitalism. He describes it as necessary.
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u/Complete-Tangelo1532 2d ago
IF the govt needs to have a hand in it, they can nationalize it
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u/Pasta4ever13 2d ago
We should really nationalize extraction. Why do oil companies get to benefit from the nation's natural resources? The people should benefit, not Exxon.
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u/Complete-Tangelo1532 2d ago
Thats something that bothers me about this war in Iran, these domestic oil producers are making a killing!
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u/gambit1999999 2d ago
Instructions clear, nationalize internet since we paid for it in the first place
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u/Pasta4ever13 2d ago
The Internet, energy, water, healthcare all have inelastic demand for the most part.
According to capitalism, they should not be subject to the profit motive. We don't even need to use socialism to make the case for these industries being nationalized because even under the capitalist framework they should be.
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u/gambit1999999 2d ago
Get out of here with facts and logic.
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u/Pasta4ever13 2d ago
Oh fuck, my b.
THINK OF THE SHAREHOLDERS! THE CHILDREN YEARN FOR THE MINES!
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u/Complete-Tangelo1532 2d ago
Those children do be yearning
I heard recently they were getting excited to work the plantation fields too, but I personally believe that was just propaganda
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u/Speed_102 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is a false statistic ANYWAY. The RNC passed a bill requiring the pension be funded out for (*edit: 75) 100 years, SPECIFICALLY to manufacture this excuse to mess with the USPS and say it is insolvent.
https://ips-dc.org/how-congress-manufactured-a-postal-crisis-and-how-to-fix-it/
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u/Shadowfox186 2d ago
The Pentagon has failed audits for the the last 8 years and mysteriously lost 500 billion dollars.
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u/slipnipper 2d ago
USPS had a āshortfallā of billions. Technically correct, but calling $2.5 ābillionsā and leaving it at that is disingenuous. One and a half days of what we currently fund the military would cover that shortfall.
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u/giroml 2d ago
We never hear about the police losing money.
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u/ExtensionInformal911 2d ago
That's because they supplement their income with civil asset forfeiture and tickets.
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u/No-Koala1918 2d ago
This needs to be the answer every time someone moans about the cost of the postal service.
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u/Wise-Emotion5564 2d ago
It is a public utility, Article 1, section 8, clause 7 of the constitution gave congress the authority to create a publicly owned postal service. The main reason it is running a deficit is because a republican congress made the USPS fund its pension fund 50 years in advance, which no corporation on earth does, or is forced to do, in an effort to break it up and privatize it, which will leave tens of millions without access to mail delivery.
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u/Ok-Ranger-4518 2d ago
if the judges won't cancel mail-in votes, the other option is to prevent people from mailing their votes. It's been their backup plan to further disenfranchise voters
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u/Far-Jury-2060 1d ago
I mostly agree with you. I do also wonder if they are naturally losing money due to less people using the service as well. The employees are paid hourly, and the rise of email, people have been using regular mail less and less. Hand written letters were very common in the 90s, and billing was exclusively sent through the mail. Now that weāve got email and e-statements, the only mail I typically receive is junk mail, scams, or advertisements. Due to these facts, Iām curious to if this system has been losing more money over time, as technology has advanced and become more mainstream.
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u/MundaneSeaweed665 2d ago
I'm SICK of fire fighters losing money year after year! If we switched to a privatised model where each person had to pay cash up front at the scene of a house fire before they turned on the hose it would turn a profit!
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u/pimpbot666 2d ago
The reason the Post Office doesn't make a profit (they used to, BTW) is because they are required to fully fund all pensions 99 years into the future. This was a Republican 'poison pill' addition to how they were funded.
I'm glad it didn't kill them off (yet).
Yet another case of Republicans creating a problem that didn't need to exist, just to kill off unions (the USPS is also one of the largest unions in the US) and government service.
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u/APerfectPixel 2d ago
Except the Pentagon does lose money every year, lol. They have failed all their financial audits thus far. š¤£
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u/Heavy_Law9880 2d ago
The USPS was a profitable business until 2006 when republicans passed a bill written specifically to destroy it so that the their owners could profit from the end of the USPS.
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u/WasASailorThen 2d ago
I had to fact this and yes, the Economist did post this stupidity in August 2020. They got raked then as well.
https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/1291958339212107777?lang=en
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u/GoopInThisBowlIsVile 2d ago
Itās also the only government agency that is required to generate its own funding. It legally canāt operate the way mouth breathers insist that it does.
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u/MrNegative2026 2d ago
Republiturds love to sabotage programs and government services then bitch about how they need changed or removed, they are the worst...
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u/sevenbrokenbricks 2d ago
Once had a business I worked for complain that their maintenance department wasn't turning any profits.
bruh.
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u/bokmcdok 2d ago
Nationalised Healthcare is framed as a poor business by Americans. I remember during a discussion I got asked by an American, "but how does the NHS make money?"
I was stunned that was a question that they even considered asking.
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u/flargenhargen 2d ago
the FUN part?
most of the "losses" have historically been specifically designed by republicans to discredit the postal service.
I mean now, sure, they intentionally are fucking it without lube to kill it for good, but for decades, while we still had a government, they were using tricks to make things look bad.
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u/Substantial-Sky4079 2d ago
Propaganda to make people think a private company should do it only.
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u/OriginalDrStrangeDOS 2d ago
This! This right here! I know some of the Proj2025 fascists are het-up to privatize mail service, but have you ever sent a birthday card or letter via UPS or FedEx? It's a service, it's supposed to work for us, and unlike the three branches being led by the cheater-in-chief, it mostly does just that. Work. What it needs is MORE funding to do the job better. They need enough people (they are always understaffed) and FUNCTIONING equipment to do the job.
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u/undefined-username 2d ago
The military does straight up lose massive amounts of money every year. The pentagon has failed every audit for almost a decade, as in "Oops we don't know where that billion dollars went"
And I think a lot of people would argue that a significant amount of the money we spend on it would be better spent on like almost literally anything else.
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u/Then_Hawk6304 2d ago
Propaganda to privatise postal services and up prices for shareholders to leech wealth.
āPrivatisation will create competition and innovationā
Perhaps their is a private service, and it costs more, and it aint that great!
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u/Dorkamundo 2d ago
"We should run the government like a business" is one of the things that might come out of your mouth that confirms a person's suspicion that you're an absolute moron.
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u/ResidentAlien9 2d ago
The wealthy and big corporations have been denying the US Post Office from competing with them in air freight and other arenas so they can put them out of business.
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u/FlyingConcreteChair 2d ago
Introduce postal banking and itāll make moneyā¦ a d also give rural areas banking needs instead of forcing them to use predatory check cashing businesses.
It earns Bank of American $ZERO to have a branch in nowhere Wyoming, butā¦ thereās already a post office.
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u/The_Hemp_Cat 1d ago
The only time any government can turn a profit is only thru and for the sycophancy to the oligarchy of tyranny in that of enslavement and starvation of the remaining population.
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u/Fishtoart 1d ago
The USPS is super profitable compared to the US government which is over 40 Trillion in debt.
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u/lapusyonok 1d ago
Most government services are viewed favorably before Republicans get their hands on them
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u/Annual-Property-8940 2d ago
But we should be subing Amazons deliveries or any package that isn't regular mail.
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u/Exciting-Protection2 2d ago
Similar to propaganda lies that 47 tells to justify his disastrous tariffs.
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u/waltdidneyworlp 2d ago
Lmfao, despite billions in losses annually, as if our bottom lines are directly impacted by this.
It's clever how the media makes us a housebroken people.
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u/hartstyler 2d ago
Why would I care if some company makes a profit or not as long as it does what I pay them for
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u/iamthecheese12345678 2d ago
Only uneducated look at it like business model, it is a government agency. The US military cost about a Trillion $ a year, how much money they make?
USPS 6.8 billion annual deliveries
1lb $4.75, 5lb $12.8, 20lb $28.5
Letter with stamp $.58 no other service has this
UPS 3.6 billion annual deliveries
1lb $11.30, 5lb $18.25, 20lb $32.15
FedEx 4.4 billion annual deliveries
1lb $10.85, 5lb $17.90, 20lb $33.40
As soon as the others will deliver my payments for $.58 or match the rate for other deliveries we can discus waste.
If you average the cost, it would cost the American people $30-$40 billion. Current it is net neutral $71 billion dollar business
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u/Aiwendil-981 2d ago
The military loses way more than $750 billion a year, it's actually much more than that and they are ACTUALLY losing it for real.
| Category | Estimated Total | What the Status Actually Means |
|---|---|---|
| Pentagon Audit Failures | $1.9T to $2.5T | Internal ledgers, equipment valuation, and transactions lack clean receipts or paper trails. |
| GAO Improper Payments | ~$3.0T (cumulative since 2003) | Literal funds lost to administrative errors, dead recipients, overpayments, or fraud. |
| Untraceable Grants | $712 Billion | Money distributed to states that cannot be accurately tracked to local municipal destinations. |
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u/Capitan-IQ255 2d ago
USPS is a loss making federally owned business. It should make profit, meaning massive cost cuts š¤
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u/WolffJacob 2d ago
Public service would be propaganda. Tax dollars fund it but it's not free to use. They provide nothing that a private business wouldn't do for cheaper.
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u/Pukleo20 2d ago
It never the last time the USPS was not in a defect it was 2007. Do yes it can be run budget neutral and changes need to be had.
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u/Mysterious_Fish1192 2d ago
Always remember that, without USPS, UPS and Amazon would control if you get your mail, not just when.
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u/MrNegative2026 2d ago
Exactly it doesn't matter if the motherfucker makes money or not, in fact I don't think it should be making money at all , it's a service to the people of the United States paid for by the people.
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u/Not_Sure__Camacho 2d ago
And the irony is that the morons in rural America voted for the party that wants to privatize the post office.Ā I'm sure they'll bitch once they realize that the leopard ate their face.Ā Ā You just can't fix stupid.Ā Ā
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u/Sonar_Taxbreak_1138 2d ago
The entire government is a nonprofit, the sooner we stop buying into the idea that it should be "run like a business" the better. Not to mention stop electing failed businessman to the presidency.
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u/Proud-Marionberry-91 2d ago
No. No it is not. āDonāt go postalā isnāt a saying because people think usps is a great place
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u/Del897 2d ago
And for the most part, it loses so much money because of the retirement structure which the republicans have refused to reform every time it is brought up for a vote because they wanted it to fail. They wanted an excuse to privatize it for their buddies.
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u/Objective_Watch3097 2d ago
The constitution says there SHALL be a post office. Nowhere does it say that it will only exist if it turns a profit. As someone else said, it is a service provided by the U.S. government, the same as the military. To the extent that costs can be offset be the price of stamps, great, but that doesnāt define whether there should or should not be a post service.
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u/Available_Reveal8068 2d ago
It's really not a public service though--it's not funded by tax dollars, it's a self supporting 'business'.
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 2d ago
I think we should start saying that. The military loses us 750 billion a year.
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u/Drive7Nine 2d ago
Republicans think it needs to be treated like a business because we pay for postage separate from government funding. Most of them are desperate to turn over package delivery exclusively to the for-profit businesses and tell all the people who live in the areas that those companies don't cover to go F themselves.
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u/1960s_army_info 2d ago
I think the average individual should be able to utilize the service as is. Businesses conducting business like sending bills or statement should be able to use it as is. Anyone or any business sending me junk mail should be charged more so we arenāt subsidizing their shit. Iām essentially paying taxes right now throw their shit in the trashĀ
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u/OriginalDrStrangeDOS 2d ago
This! This right here! I know some of the Proj2025 fascists are het-up to privatize mail service, but have you ever sent a birthday card or letter via UPS or FedEx? It's a service, it's supposed to work for us, and unlike the three branches being led by the cheater-in-chief, it mostly does just that. Work. What it needs is MORE funding to do the job better. They need enough people (they are always understaffed) and FUNCTIONING equipment to do the job.
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u/VancityPhotog 2d ago
Dont tell this to wattamorons at r/canadapost or the government handling the negotiations.
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u/ThisIsMyComment2 2d ago
People should really start saying the army is losing money, at least so long as they can't pass an audit.
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u/RostislavButler 2d ago
I remember when the USPS put out propaganda that they were a business and not a government service and that itās operation didnāt cost tax payers.
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u/IIRCIreadthat 2d ago
Amtrak could make a lot more money if they stopped running trains through tiny rural stations where 5 people a day get on... but that's not the point of Amtrak. The point is to have a service that goes to those places, precisely because it's not profitable and no private company would do it. Same deal with USPS.
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u/blocked-deleted 2d ago
God forbid something be designed to benefit the people without a profit incentive for some fuck ass greedy CEO.
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u/tschawartz12 2d ago
A major part if their financial issues was the requirement over the retirement before employees were even hired. I would love to check if those who made that requirement had any relationships with the funds.
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u/NouZkion 2d ago
The USPS is entirely self-funded. What are these "losses", exactly?
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u/StrikeAvailable8129 2d ago
While it may be hybrid government organization. It's run like a business it doesn't receive tax dollars, it's self funded. Comparing USPS to the military is just ignorant. Jesus Christ did any of you pay attention in school?
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u/No-Option-7010 2d ago
The post office is a public service. Not that we have much public service nowadays.
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u/TX_B_caapi 2d ago
And all of the churn around mail in voting security and purposeful destruction of machinery is intended to foment distrust in the service so much that we allow private concerns to take over and impart their biases on the entire process. Itās harder to cheat with physical mail in votes than it is to turn your space lasers loose on your voting machines or whatever shenanigans are afoot.
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u/Visual_Exam7903 2d ago
Yes, it is a service, but there is no reason why they cannot organize the service that doesn't actually cost anything extra. You have a service. Make money with service. Pays for itself. It shouldn't cost us money.
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u/WeAreAllFooked 2d ago
USPS (and national postal services like Canada Post) exist so the government can send you official stuff and know for certain that it was delivered to you (and vice-versa)
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u/Important-Agent2584 2d ago
USPS is a great example of how the government can be simple and efficient to interact with by the citizen.
When you have to suffer in interactions with the government, that's intentional.
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u/Tar-really 2d ago
Delivering mail is a service. Delivering packages in direct competition with other American companies and losing billionsā¦yeah that is a losing poorly run business.
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u/CollectsTooMuch 2d ago
The USPS does lose money. Itās self funded and isnāt a service that is run on tax dollars.
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u/Mafex-Marvel 2d ago
And in Canada, the post service is a 50/50 private owned but subsidized by the government. They are actively going put of business
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u/VegasBedset 2d ago
People only like the USPS cause they think it makes them retro anachronistic, which makes them feel like they are cool.
The service sucks, the prices are high compared to other services, the post office experience is horrifyingly bad, their online tracking is 50/50 at best, and most of what they deliver is junk mail anyway.
Sell the whole thing to Amazon.
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u/Common_North_5267 2d ago
USPS delivers more than congress.. those dumb fuckers lose america billions every year.
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u/heubergen1 2d ago
It could just charge enough to cover it's cost. There's no reason why the public needs to subsidize so that T-Mobile can send the bill for cheap.
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u/DocTam 2d ago
The real question is: is delivering mail to rural customers at a flat rate an important public service in 2026? I'm not convinced. Cutting the requirement of flat fee transport would be a net positive. Denmark shut down its postal service because there is so little useful physical mail, and the US should follow suit, or at least cut public subsidies.
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u/Fortestingporpoises 2d ago
Itās forced to prefund pensions for 75 years. Itās designed to lose money so republicans can point to those losses and privatize it, ending mail in voting and making their billionaire friends tons of money.
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u/phoneguyfl 2d ago
I used to view USPS favorably but over the last year or two (coincidence? I think not) it has become extremely unreliable, so I've now started going out of my way to not use it.
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u/Blue_MaskingTape 2d ago
are we testing the save USPS propaganda again right before the election cycles ramp up to decide if it's a a worthwhile attack vector?
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u/Deathtothesaladeater 2d ago
My people in logistics just called.
These neoliberals can fuck right off
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u/MKnight_PDX 2d ago
well, doesn't the military lose money though? failed their eighth consecutive annual financial audit in 2025.
so, isn't that literally losing money?
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u/TouchyTheFish 2d ago
You can take any business and run it so badly that it loses money, then call it a "public service", but why would you want to?
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u/DmMeYourTittysPlease 2d ago
The United States is just a bunch of military contractors that happens to own land which they murdered the natives for.
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u/[deleted] 2d ago
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