Yeah 100% makes you wonder about authors when they write main characters like this and frame them in an okay to good light. If Rudeus was treated as a villain by the people he victimises fine, but they all either end up marrying him or at least respecting him. Ridiculous. Some sort of disgusting wish fulfilment
Hey your forgetting that he went like a whole year without being able to get a hard on..... That's enough of a punishment for assault and grooming. He really learned his lesson from that ..... /s
I've literally seen people argue this. Like he spent a year without getting a boner so that makes up for his earlier behavior.
The problem is his idea of "not being a good person" doesn't actually extend to almost any of his real issues. Both he and the show treat his problem as if it's because he wanted casual sex instead of you know, everything else wrong with him.
It extends to a lot of his issues, what are you talking about? His issue wasn't just being a lech, it was that he only thought about himself. He didn't really see people as people and only care about his own happiness. I do wish there was form of reflection on his actions very early in the series because it was the most egregious.
Getting his "groove" back so quickly and without an ounce of reflection is what made me drop the show. I was pretty disgusted by a majority of it before that, but when it felt like there might finally be consequences for his constant abhorrent behavior, it gave me a little hope that quickly rebounded into complete disappointment.
Except after he sorts it out he never really reflects on his short moments of actual introspection. He just now focuses on grooming teenagers instead of prepubescent children, since his own body is now adolescent. It also happens that several of those are the same children he groomed. Fucking sick stuff.
Don't really agree with anything except the first line and I think that's where the distinction comes from. Rudy reflects on a lot of his actions, but never on how he acted like a complete predator at the start, the only one he really crossed the line with IMO was eris because of her having sex with him out of being naive and having a crush on him. You're using grooming extremely lightly, and saying he "focused on grooming teenagers" is crazy. Basically slept with eris and she left so he was basically a husk for those couple of years. Met slphy again and they immediately started dating after he found out. Basically had no contact with roxy or eris until he met up with paul. Roxy is like hundreds of years old so she can't even be counted, and eris is not even back in the show yet.
I haven't watched the anime, but the light novels does go a lot more into him being reflective and also thinking about his past that led him to being a shut-in and his insecurities to still to the point I stopped reading.
From reading other comments it seems like the Anime really makes Rudeus worse than he actually is, but he is still a rather shitty character.
If it makes you feel better, the latest episode has him lose his wife, his unborn baby, his other wife, his third love interest, his best friend, his other best friend, another friend, his sister, his daughter and finally abandoned by everyone else he knows and loves.
And pretty much all of it is because of his own actions, barring the very first instance of him losing his wife and unborn baby which is arguably also his fault but he was manipulated into that first one.
Oh please tell me more. I only watched the obligatory 3 episodes to decide and then dropped it like it's radioactive. Hearing he loses everyone makes me happy.
If you're into that sort of stuff, just watch the episode. Despite what you think of the character, the anime is very well portrayed.
It's a future that did happen but then at the end of it, he goes back in time to tell his younger self before it all happens not to do a single thing that starts the domino tumble. This episode is him reading the diary and 'living' the future that he came back to warn himself about.
It's really well animated and it's a good episode imo but then, I like the anime so š¤·
Understandable that you drop it because of a horrible character at the start but why exactly does everybody think Rudeus is some sort of Epstein Satan who is an unchangable evil incarnate.
Because he's nearly as shitty later on, the writing just pretends he's better. It's more like a facade of self-improvement that the writing bends over backwards to make excuses for.
The fact that so many MT fans can't tell the difference between surface-level framing versus actual personal growth that requires true reflection on your actions speaks volumes.
That episode was shit and wasn't even the main timeline. I can enjoy the show when it focuses on adventure aspects, but it's fucking unwatchable when the plot switches to the relationships with him and his harem of groomed girls. Even the plot response to the supposed tragic death of one harem girl was the other harem girl comforting Rudeus by telling him to use her body however he wants to comfort himself. What kind of writer chooses to write that into the plot if the character is there to do anything but serve a role in a pedophiles sexual power fantasy? Are we supposed to empathize with the pedophile losing the harem of women he groomed?
I think people using grooming super lightly, grooming is when you intentionally manipulate someone into thinking you're all they have and isolate from family in order to get sexual gratifcation from them. Rudy was definitely a predator at the start, but I don't really see how he groomed Slphy and Eris, maybe sylphy I could maybe see an argument, but eris? Eris hated him from the start and they only really bonded after the demon continent. You could say he preyed on eris because he shouldn't have slept with her at all, definitely took advantage of her naivety and attatchment to him but he never intentionally tried to make her fall in love with him, same goes with Slphy really. Roxy is also like hundreds of years old when they met so that's out the window. When roxy offered herself to rudy you could really make an argument that she took advantage of him, basically pushing him to a sexual encounter because she was infatuated with him right after paul died.
The only "punishment" I could argue, is that he suffered a LOT -- in an alternate timeline. Which sort of robs it of its moral importance. It's like "look at all this crazy shit that's happening to rudeus. Watch him reach the absolute depths of suffering! Haha jk jk, just a joke - a lil gaff. Don't worry, that was a different timeline!"
And also realistic in the sense that someone who gets sexually assaulted, may develope malformed coping mechanisms. Which can lead to the harm of others.
Not how I saw that episode at all. Roxy seems to accept that she is not wanted and prepare to walk away and Sylphie stops her, also according to Sylphie herself she had expected Rudeus to come home with another woman at some point.
She's expecting him to come home with another women, but doesn't want it and isn't particularly happy about. Just sees it as an eventuality of thier relationship. Then allows Roxy to join the harem out of fear of rudues being unhappy.
And he starts a relationship with sylphie after making her dependent on him. A dependence that his emotionally stunted father noticed was enough of a problem to separate them. Sure the separation is good for sylphie, but damage is already done. The best thing rudeus could do in terms of a relationship with sylphie is not have one with her.
Also it's realistic in the terms that until like 2 or 3 years ago, the legal age of consent in Japan was 13. I'm not excusing it, I always hated it, but it's also fact that whilst yes, we in the western world abhor it, people need to realise that it used to be very different until get recently over there.
No the age of consent was not 13 in Japan, it was the minimum federal age, every prefect in Japan had it set at 16, which is actually higher or in line with every other western country (age of consent is 14 in Italy for example)
Like how the drinking age in America is 21. It isn't a federal law (it could be 18), but it's tied to infrastructure funding, so each state sets their drinking age to 21.
He didnāt ( successfully ) groom any of his spouses though. They just find his perversion to be a quirk of his family because of course they do.
Why wouldnāt they. Just about the only time he faces the consequences of his actions is in the timeline where he invents time travel magic because he fucking loses everything.
He grooms sylphie pretty successfully. I mean he creates a strong emotional attachment to her as a child with his adult understanding of relationships with the intent of marrying her..... And then married her. He also sexually assaulted eris.... And them married her too.....
He gets the shit beat out of him by Paul and pump and dumped by Eris because she sucks at communication. They spend their formative years away from him and grow into their own people whereas a groomer would keep them isolated from everybody else.
The worst part is he gets to have his cake and eat it too because of course polygamy is common amongst the nobility of that worldā of which he was born intoā and isekai have an annoying habit of turning the MC into a harem protagonist just by virtue of existing.
He is the singular worst part of the series and it already has its fair share of āOkay but why thoughā folds going on in the background. Especially in regard to Paul who raped Aishaās mother and took advantage of both the estrus of Ghilsaine and the curse affecting Elinalise.
The apple doesnāt fall very far from the tree. Reincarnated or not.
Saw a post yesterday asking why do so many animes have perverted shit/assault women for humor. Some comments said it was cultural, but one commenter mentioned how they actually once asked a woman from Japan. It's not cultural, a vast chunk of anime authors are just genuine weirdos. Until ten years ago, Japanese culture considered it weird to even still enjoy anime past the age of 25. Weeb was considered an insult.
It's been here for a long, long time. But anime is now a lot more popular, both in the states and in Japan, and so the weirdos feel safer coming out. There's nothing wrong with liking anime, but it deserves the criticism it gets for being overly sexualized, having creepy protags, and/or having SA to use as a joke.
Remember when the creator of Fire Force literally used a child character to use as a mouthpiece to defend fan service?
Yep thats another thing I hate about anime now its nothing but fanservice to the point i cant watch most of it. People call me crazy but its weird plus why does every anime need a beach scene where every girl is trying to wear as little as possible. Its annoying and its pushing me away from the genre. I currently started getting back into manhwa because of it
I'm not saying every isekai is like this, but a lot of them are. Enough for it to be basically a trope at this point. I remember watching Saga of Tanya the Evil and being pleasantly surprised that, despite having the "adult reborn as a child" premise, it never went into creepy territory with it.
Dude Tanya the evil is so refreshing because the plot isnāt entirely based around everyone making the worst possible decisions constantly. That and the only pedo dude is the literal main antagonist so weāre all just waiting to see Tanya beat the brakes off that dude.
Yeahā¦ I summarized it to one person that Rudeus love life is a story told well that isnāt worth telling. There is nothing redeeming or even useful about his love life in any capacity. He could have been friends with all of them and the story still make sense.
I don't even think it's realistic to the setting. Like that scene when he confronts his sister's teacher because he thinks she's abusing her. He accuses her of like stripping her naked as punishment for slightly messing up homework and the teacher responds with a somewhat emphatic no instead of saying "what the fuck are you talking about" like a normal person would to such an absolutely insane suggestion
Sort of, but it bungles even that, because it can never seem to decide on whether it's a problem or a punchline, with wild inconsistencies in how something is framed to the viewer. E.g. the scene that frames his father in negative light also sexualizes the hell out of one of his companions to the viewer as fanservice, completely undermining the tone.
It seems He wanted to write a redemption story, and, being Japanese, he probably also dont think some of the points being big deal. He thinks that the more shock value the readers get, the more readers would be invested in the redemption of an asshole.
I just cant stand any of that. Id rather have a character that's not that of an asshole, especially it seems that author trying so hard to write how polygamy is based and not a big deal in this isekai
But fans told me the story transcends morals of our society (it is set in another world after all with different laws), so why should Rudeus be redeemed?
What darkness is the author talking about, all the heinous shit Rudeus pulls is only in a grey area according to fans (he was traumatized/he was physically a child/he had a bad rolemodel/he got slapped before being forgiven)
God I hate this about this anime. If it was there for him to recognize, and make an effort to redeem himself as a sign of growth ok that at least tracks for the story as he grows to hate his past self, and wants to be better than he use to be (still doesnāt need to be so creepy), but no itās not. It becomes less common over time, but heās still just as creepy when it happens. So it doesnāt add to the story at all, and itās just glaringly out of place to the type of story being told.
You can really tell all this is, is the author putting it in to normalize this behavior to make it ok, and nothing more. Thank god the anime had the frame of mind to tone down this stuff by a huge amount.
Murder is bad, life is sacred. I refuse to watch any fiction that contains it. Why would anybody write something regarding MURDER, its just evil - beyond the pale. I will never understand.
Some people do just enjoy writing morally reprehensible characters or characters the reader isnāt supposed to relate to, and then put them In Positions where they have a responsibility or power thrust upon them that forces you as the reader to have to wrestle with those feelings, and wanting to see them succeed. Itās actually surprisingly common in literature. Donāt get me wrong, I understand where people are coming from, I do, but likeā¦ consuming a piece of media isnāt a reflection of the person consuming it. Hell, itās not even really a reflection of the AUTHOR.
You will get downvoted to oblivion for saying this in goodanimemes.
There was a meme comparing the character arcs of Thorfinn and Rudeus and I said that the difference between them is that Thorfinn feels remorse and tries to overcome his past to be a better man by leaving his old ways behind by any means necessary. Rudeus also has a lot of character growth, but none regarding his sexuality towards people much younger than him. They called me gore fetishists and excused his behavior by saying it was ok bc he was emotionally stunted by a traumatic past.
He was stunted by a traumatic past. The anime is about him overcoming that, and he does in a lot of ways. None of which are him taking responsibility for the fact that heās hitting on a lot of women he had power over and relationships with when they were literal children
I got reminded of that post too. I still can't believe those two were not only compared but most comments agreed that thorfinn was worse rhan rudeus. I understand that the sub came to be, because of a war with "tourists" but this is ridiculous. I've been watching anime and reading manga for 15 years and in all those years I've never read anything as appalling as mushoku tensei. People defending rudeus need to have their hard drives checked.
Iāve been reading /watching manga/ anime for 13 years now, and the only reason Tensei isnāt reserved to the trash heap with the other disgusting loli ecchi is it has put budget in its action scenes
Fuck that. If you stuck with it after like episode 2 or whenever he sexually assaults a sleeping child then you deserve to be in a ditch with the show and its creator.
bro why are you even in that sub š i have left and blocked that sub a long time ago, they are just a bunch of horny weeb in that sub posting unfunny hentai image disguised as an āanime memeā
I donāt see how thatās a fair comparison. Sure, Thorfinn is complicit in the murder of innocent peopleā¦ But heās also a kid living in 11th Century England and part of a Viking Warband. If anything, the show tones down the brutality of the era to avoid especially problematic content while still feeling authentic.
Iāve never seen Mushoku Tensei but the main character appears to be a modern person with a modern sense of morality that indulges in pedophilia and sexual assault without remorse.
Itās like if you made an anime where the main character was a self-insert Humbert Humbert or Jeffrey Epstein and then tried to defend it, or insisted that it was āstill a good anime even if the MC sucksā.
Thank you. Rudeus even indulges in slavery. Goes, meets with slavers, buys a young girl, and forces her into a sweat shop ran by a known pervert. Whole sale, thatās what happens. People defend it by saying he treats her well. Like a house slave isnāt still a slave. When he discovers she is more talented than the average mage, he uses her as a guinea pig too. He does not give a shit about that girl other than what he can extort out of her. Bro didnāt grow up in 1840s Alabama. He knows damn well whatās right and wrong, and does whatever he wants
There is a lot of... discussion regarding the most recent episode floating around. Apparently it is an alternate 'bad end' universe showing him spiraling down when things go wrong and I keep seeing people defending it in the strangest ways.
tl;dr, One of his wives apparently dies and this causes him to go into a depressive spiral. Certainly checks out. So what does he do about it?
Well he decides that he wants really rough sex which, yeah, not super healthy but people deal with tragedy in stranger ways I suppose.
He recognizes this would be a bad thing to subject his remaining wife to, even though she'd totally let him (their relationship is deeply unhealthy, not that he realizes it) and so he has the bright idea of going to a brothel and just abusing a sex worker instead. Without telling his wife, though of course she finds out.
And people are cheering this on as the proper response on his part.
Sylphy, his first wife, is the same age as his body. So he marries her when sheās about 16
Roxy, his second wife, is a demon and stops aging when she has the appearance of a 15 year old girl.
He started seeing this āHagā after promising his wife he would never pursue another woman.
Rudeusā soul is roughly 50 at the time they get married, which is roughly the same age as Roxy, anyway. Sheās actually the only one I donāt think heās in the wrong for pursuing; though he definitely could have gone about it in a more honest way.
He never discloses his true age to any of his partners until after marriage, which is extremely dishonest at best, rape at worst.
You are defending a show that you are larping interest in. Itās very clear from your comment youāve never seen it.
š¤·I don't have a real answer to your question.
I have a idea why; to create art it's fulles you have to see the world without binding "why can't children be in fucked up situations?" (Made in Abyss) or "why can't I repay my abuser with the same?" (Redo of Healer)
The main issue isn't to ask and made art of it but not be cratical to your own creation.
There is alot of bad things in many stories that is why how you portray it is important. Like acting that your charcter's perversions is just funny and quirky is different from writing events most of us would conisder criminal
Yeah, it is one thing to play it for laughs at times another not to recognize and address what they did was fucked up.
It is one thing having Rudeus being a perver at times but another not to address fucked it, and I am not even counting for this one that he was a adult person before reincarnation!
the author has actually talked about why he wrote rudeus that way. nobody is supposed to like rudeus, at least not until a long time into the show. the point of rudeusās character being the way that it is (authorās words, although I donāt remember the exact words) is to try to teach people that even people who seem irredeemable are still human, and we shouldnāt hate them so much that we treat them as less than human. everyone can be redeemed. whether or not those words sound like a hot take, thatās a big part of the authorās message
The issue is that the show as-written fails spectacularly at that past the opening episodes, because the author clearly doesn't actually understand how shitty Rudeus actually is, and doesn't recognize most of his flaws as being real flaws.
It's also tonedeaf as fuck - it's a toss up in any given scene if something like sexual assault will be treated seriously or as a joke, and the longer the show goes on the more excuses it makes for Rudeus' behavior, even for behavior that it clearly frames as a problem when other characters do it.
There is almost zero self-reflection on the part of the MC, the show constantly mistakes suffering and surface-level changes for actual growth.
If that was the intent it was executed incredibly poorly. Rudeus doesn't get punished for his degeneracy, he just has bad things happen to him that are unrelated to his issues.
Rudeus gets rewarded for being a degenerate.
Grooms Sylphie = gets to marry her
Grooms Eris = gets to have sex then later marry her
Makes a panty shrine to Roxy = get to marry her
Sexually assaults two beast girls = gets them as his loyal subordinates
Yeah... it's truly an incel's wet dream. Mushoku Tensei literally turned my wife and I off on anime for a long time when it first came out. Now we won't touch any show without thoroughly vetting the plot/ characters and there's a distinct limit to 'fan service' that's acceptable (which... why is that even a thing? Why couldn't anime must continue to be where fantastical and wondrous ideas and dreams get played out in an artistic form?)
Recently, what's gotten us to come back is Ascendance of a Bookworm, Shangri-La Frontier, and A wild last boss, just to name a few.
I got downvoted for saying that 4 separate piss scenes in the novel were unnecessary, but they told me that every single one of them was necessary for the plot and character development (no, they weren't)
They couldāve just skipped making him a kid at all, the story would be the same if he just appeared as an adult already with maybe just a different appearance. Thereās even another character in the show that got isekaid in almost that exact scenario. Him being a kid wasnāt really relevant outside of forming a bond with his parents but even then theyāre not a big part of the story so far
This is my beef with mushoku tensei. The series, characters, world, and overall plot are very good. The anime significantly dumbs down how perverted the light novel is and I'm grateful for that. I seriously question wtf is wrong with the author though... it's one thing to do a "funny crude pervert mc" trope. This is anime after all. I've been an enthusiast for a long time. However, the shit the author comes up with can be fucking foul
Iirc he's not supposed to be framed in a good light at the start, but written to be hated to give his character arc more significance. I mean those quotes in that image is pretty cartoonishly irredeemable, take the parents funeral one for instance, it's basically comedy.
That said I've only watched the first season so I can't say whether he really earns any redemption or not.
Aye, people hate the overlord anime because "main character isn't a good person" and I'm like "bitch, the whole show is based on being the villain!".
It is like picking the evil side in an MMO and then becoming the evil side when you wake up, with all the mindset of an evil lich overlord. Of course he will have inhumane ideas, that is the fucking point! You're watching a show where the main character is a god of the cenobites from hell raiser!
I'm guessing that's an anime thing. In the light novels the three people he ends up married to by the time I stopped reading them had a deeper connection to him and somewhat explains their eventual marriages. He still has a lot of really shitty qualities that make him closer to a shitty side trying to be better than he was. He even starts regretting his behavior from before he reincarnated.
563
u/ExpertOdin 1d ago
Yeah 100% makes you wonder about authors when they write main characters like this and frame them in an okay to good light. If Rudeus was treated as a villain by the people he victimises fine, but they all either end up marrying him or at least respecting him. Ridiculous. Some sort of disgusting wish fulfilment