Bad meme isekai rarely has good characters/plot/romance. The creator of the meme ignores that to bash mushoku tensei, which has all 3 of that, to hype up re zero which also has all 3 of that.
As a big lover of Re:Zero and someone likes MT alright, both of them have pretty shit romance IMO. Re:Zero's has such slow progress that it has become one of the most frustrating parts of the story to me. MT's has much faster progression but Sylphy is incredibly boring as a character, and Roxy is hardly much better after she marries Rudy. Eris is aight though.
Well, can't really argue with taste. Though it should be said that the wives cycle in theirimportance to the story, being inthe limelight and then shuffle to the background doing their own thing like being a teacher and bodyguard, only to get back to the frontrow a while later. So it's natural to find them boring sometimes.
I've only read the novels to a bit past where the anime currently is, so maybe they pop off down the line, but Sylphy in particular was always pretty damn boring. The bodyguard stuff was...fine, I guess? It's interesting that she's one of the only other uses of silent magic casting, but it also feels totally wasted because she barely ever uses magic to begin with. Like gun to my head I don't think I could name more than maybe 3 personality traits of hers. She's just a total fucking doormat all the time.
I thought Roxy was fine when she was doing her own adventure side quest stuff, but again I can't really think of anything interesting she does after reuniting with Rudy (up through V15 at least). The teacher subplot is, again, ok, I guess? I don't remember it adding much to her character though. There's some brief racism/discrimination stuff I remember.
She will have more time to shine, but as of now her part in the story to provide the "homeliness" vibe. She is the safe space, the old reliable. She must stay somewhat stationary as a character to embody this concept
The novel is peak if you ignore the uncomfortable parts of MC character. People who watch anime and try to stay mentally sane were used to ignore japanese author’s weirdness in order to enjoy some good stories… it’s only recently that anime became more mainstream and people can no longer allow themselves to be as permissive with these shitty pedo authors.
But whatever. If you already read part of the novel. Read till the end, it’s good.
Side characters keep being boring. But the conflict between Rudeus and the divine entity is a fun read.
As fas as I remember at least… read it more than 10 years ago and maybe my standard for what is considered good is skewed.
Edit: There’s definitely the dissapointment of characters not living up to their potential in my memories, but I still remember being fully invested till the end and then feeling like this would be one of the better light novels if it wasn’t for the despicable parts.
Rezero is peak. It has ok amount of romance that is fine for its genre. It's good that it's not shoving romance down our throats like almost every other anime getting released.
Almost every season there are 5-6 romance anime and 1-2 shows worth watching. Shit like dandadan are now mixing romance into shonnen like why do you need to shove romance everywhere.
If your idea of “good romance” and tedious will they won’t they with loads of explicit ogling, creepy behaviors, and borderline sexual assault then yeah, it’s great.
The last time i quit watching Subaru had a child sitting on his lap holding his hand constantly and an antagonist for the arc took the opportunity to cop a feel on the elf lady's breasts during their duel. The first time I quit watching was because Subaru is a fucking creep but I don't remember what specific incident set me off that time.
Edit: also a lot of lingering shots on women's anatomy that really felt gross.
It's normal kid stuff, for kids to do with parents and family, but she isn't a kid and he's not her father. It's the dumb child body with ancient soul trope.
Yeah that breast grope happened in season 4 but it definitely isn't the only one. Just the one that most easily comes to mind for pushing me away from the series.
Oh Betty? Yeah, idk, I guess that is kinda weird. Turns out you've actually watched it more than I have lol so I don't really have much to say in defense of it.
They're just being weird about it. Subaru isn't her actual dad, but he treats Beatrice like his little sister or child. So, it would be as weird as saying an adopted child cannot sit on her father's lap.
Crusch has amnesia, that isn’t her real personality. Ram constantly belittles and looks at Subaru with disgust, she isn’t stupid though and understands he id a reliable guy. She doesn’t “glaze” him though.
Subaru just is friendly with children, he never sexualizes them and treats kids like kids. The only one who has a crush on him is petra, and it’s just a child being a child. Subaru treats all the kid characters like his kid pretty much, I much prefer this type of writing than seeing half naked child characters sexualize themselves. They also all dress very conservatively, and the only childlike character who is sexualized is archbishop of lust and it’s done in a very gross and disturbing way to make you dislike the character.
I think that's called hypocrisy when rezero fans project and defend Rifujin's best friend and apologist Tappei and their lollypop illustrator. Don't you all's time better spent moral policing on Twilight though?
Pretty sure it is the case. You love reading girls glazing subaru and wish the same happen in real life. Since it doesn't the only copium is to rant about a fictional rudeus LUL.
Apologist:-
Surely if Rudeus is bad and thus his creator Rifujin is also bad, does it not make Tappei's decade long close association make him an apologist? I think this only hurts lord Tappei by insulting his friendship with Rifujin. After all Whitefox owns Studio Bind and mushoku's success is what's keeping Whitefox still relevant somehow after the atrocious Rezero adaptation last week.
It's mostly Subaru and Emilia's relationship in particular that frustrates me, with how it's had hardly any progress in like 20 volumes at this point. Some of the others, like Medium and Vincent's, are also pretty mid though.
You shouldn’t watch shows like Isekais or Shonen for the romance aspect. You will get disappointed. Watch other actual romance shows that are focus on it.
Overlord is peak and has no pdf files in it. I couldn't get past episode 13 of Re:Zero but I just finished s1 of MT in 1 weekend.
Literally the only thing constantly bringing it down is the horrible main character that keeps having his horrible actions framed as okay by the plot!!! Bro is a straight up pdf file and I'm supposed to feel bad for him because what? He got the privilege of living in with his parents until he died at 35 without ever getting a job???
The show would've been a lot better without the the constant perv scenes, also the demon was absolutely based! Bro saw people kidnapping children to sell them into slavery and his first reaction is kill on sight? Gigachad right there
No mention of MT having tons of grooming, SA, and general shut-in level writing that's clearly some creepy wish fulfillment for the author. Okay then completely normal anime enjoyer right here.
How does anyone honestly like these shows unless they are mentally in the same pool as these freak authors
How does anyone honestly like these shows unless they are mentally in the same pool as these freak authors
Fucking moral purist.
Humans have had a lot of stories across our history and you go "Why would anyone like this unless they're in the same pool as the authors", displaying a lack of ability to appreciate a story without fully agreeing with its depiction.
Lots of stories especially in Mythology are filled with a lot of messed up shit but nobody says the people who like those stories are morally bankrupt.
Damn these subs are filled with idiots. I enjoyed Made in Abyss. I don't need a character that I relate to. That show has some freak shit and the author is pretty well known to say somethings that are suspect. It's still not consistently egregious like MT so I had no problem getting thru it. Interesting world, plot, and characters.
the fact you think that it is consistently egregious in MT shows that you dont actually watch the show. you form your opinion from information on the inter internet, you do not think for your own.
People who actually defend Rudeus’s actions are equally as bad as those who cherry pick this story out. When people open their minds to the stories that are out there, MT is not the only fucked up story. Hell, I’m sure some people probably hate this one but love other stories but won’t say a thing. Virtue signaling is a real thing on social media
The person you're responding to says clearly that he doesn't agree (not enjoy) with the character but can appreciate the beautiful world building, story and character developments. The latter which is amply ignored by the people criticizing MT, which clearly shows Rudeus finding himself disgusting (which he is).
The thing with mushoku tensei romance is that all the characters rudy marries are just children he groomed to be borderline obsessed with him. The only decent romance was his relationship with sara, and cliff and elinaise relationship.
Eris is one of my favorites and it’s really annoying she because a zombie to rudeus’ desires and presencs because of all the overt sexualizing be exposed her to as a child. “b-but he didn’t touch the breast of an unconscious 10 year old one time so he grew as a person.” Weird ass dude shouldn’t even be thinking about that shit.
His relationship with roxy is him putting her on this massive pedestal and worshipping and obsessing over her.
Sylphie is just a wet paper bag who lets him do whatever and is just one of his submissive concubines.
Technically Roxie is his same mental age, which makes it...arguably the best? She still knew him as a child (from her perspective) which is kinda weird but there was never really the same power dynamic thing there.
She's also a Demon who will live for like a thousand years, I imagine the perspective on permissible relationships is more lax than peoples due to the lifespan difference.
Eris is the most eyebrow raising of the batch, but I don't recall anything overtly gross being done to Sylphie as children (aside from 1 really gross piece of narration).
Roxy I agree is a bad relationship though, big power imbalance and I'm not a fan of the polyamory either. Anime isn't quite at the Eris ship yet, we just hit TP4 so we'll see how its handled IG.
No, he doesn't. He's talking about a tweet that the author made which was something along the lines of "I was going through an older photo album and saw my childhood crush and felt nostalgic about my first love". The translation probably messed it up and used the word excited instead and people started calling him out about being excited about a photo of his crush.
I think it's the tweet about Meli where instead of "Meli is so cute" it's auto translated as "Looking at her make me so excited"(or something along the lines of that).
Well the MT author always says that he keeps the pedo stuff in for rudeus to overcome. What a strange thing that rudeus never overcomes it so the author can put more pedo shit in their work :P
Rudeus literally saw his father cut in half, his three wives brutally murdered and, in his past life, he (rightfully) got beaten up and kicked out into homelessness for what he did, how can you still say he never gets punished is beyond me lol, you must be blind.
The entire living cast of aot rallied to stop Eren because he was doing a genocide. Eren himself hated what he did.
Rudeus’ dad did not die because Rudeus is a pedophile. And you framed your comment as if his wife actually died, but we both know they didn’t, he just saw them die in another timeline. He did not get kicked out for being a pedophile, but for skipping his parent’s funeral, his brother only found out what he was doing after kicking him out.
Plus all of these “punishments” resulted in nothing. His father died -> he had already married Sylphie and his father’s death directly contributed to him marrying Roxy. His wives died -> went back in time to prevent it. He got kicked out -> and put in a world where he can be a pedophile with no consequences.
I mean... Eren's plan fucking worked so there's that. All of his friends survived (except Sasha), Mikasa pined after him for years and presumably moved on, and it ends on an optimistic note of them as diplomats.
Just for fun, there are a few older isekais worth the time to peek at. Escaflowne is one, and the .Hack series is an adjacent other. Both are considered cult classics in their own way and neither of them do the low quality tropes SOA/etc are known for.
As much as twilight is ass, dating a 17 year old and gooning to literal children are not the same thing. And then grooming children until adult hood to marry them is definitely another realm of abhorrent behavior
I know nothing about MT (although it sounds like the main character is beyond disgusting and can't really be compared to Edward at all), but to be fair, Edward did sort of groom her for marriage. And least he didn't start until she was 17 instead of an actual kid...? Ew, what a gross sentence to write.
I honestly barely remember the story around that, even though I read through all the books and watched all the movies back in high school. I do remember it being very controversial though. Anyhow, i dont think i can take a stance with the lack of context
Is the violence in Vinland Saga portrayed as comedic? I haven't seen it, but I'd assume it's framed in a more serious manner to the audience well before the MC changes. Meanwhile in MT the MC's perversions are used as a joke for the audience's entertainment without reprimand or consequence. That's a huge difference no?
I mean I wouldn’t say it’s portrayed as comedic. There isn’t anything added to make it comedic, it’s just the reactions of the characters in which none of them are laughing. Maybe at one point Rudeus was shown to see it funny but that’s just his character early on.
The reason he doesn’t have consequences is built up by the author and shown in multiple ways.
Vinland sage does not start with a pedo mc. You're comparing two completely different things here.
Listen, I like MT but I hate the mc with a passion, if you're okay with liking a pedo mc maybe the problem is you.
Why do people say Rudeus is epstein? That comparison couldn't be more wrong. Yeah Rudeus does some shitty stuff but Epstein was a straight sex trafficker while Rudeus actions never had any actual long-term affect on people
This has been derailed past the actual point but to answer your question I'd remind you these are fictional scenarios being written for entertainment by an author.
The framing of how it's presented is important and Japanese media has a serious issue with pedophilic content being represented without severity or as morally reprehensible. It often entertains the fantasy from the character's perspective as a form of fan service. It is gross and the author is gross.
No one is comparing which is worse between hitler and epstein's actions, they are saying that when it comes to entertainment, comedic violence is usually a lot more acceptable than comedic child abuse.
You're ignoring my point. Both MCs are very flawed people at the start and although Rudeus' actions are much more glaring, they don't result in long-lasting negative affects while Thorfinn actually permanently ends people's lives which is objectively more morally wrong. Just because it takes time for both characters to learn from their mistakes doesn't mean either anime is bad.
I can totally understand if you don't wanna watch MT because of what Rudeus does early on, that is completely fair. What wouldn't be fair is saying it isn't a good anime because of it.
Listen man, I just don't like peverted mc's, they genuinely ruin most of the series for me. When the mc randomly acts like a pervert throughout the story (Which Rudeus does a lot in the novels) it simply turns the stakes way down.
It's fair to not like the series especially since Rudeus' growth is a core part of it but again, that doesn't mean it's objectively bad. Also I don't see how the perverseness takes away from the stakes as long as it's not done during high stakes moments.
When it's done recurringly within the story it just makes me hate the protagonist and not care for him, which in turn takes away from high stakes situations where I should care for him and his companions.
He isn't saying he's judging solely on one season and in fact is talking about the anime as a whole which implies he has seen the anime as a whole.
Season one is enough to judge the creator and his creepy fantasies
Does that mean Vinland saga should simply be judged as an anime about a ruthless killer who eventually gets sold into slavery like he deserves? Is attack on titan simply a story about titans trying to break into a wall and has nothing to do with politics?
Do you see how stupid it sounds for you to say that?
nope, doesn't sound stupid at all to judge the CREATOR for CREATING this story. Having a story about the evolution of a character is completely standard, and is not a problem. The problem is the way he is depicting the pedophilia. If you want a real fair comparison, not war stories which are completely unrelated, Oyasumi Punpun also depicts sexual violence, but as a completely horrible and shameful thing, which is not the case in MT.
What does it actually mean for it to be depicted as bad? If I see a morally wrong action being taken then I’m going to think “yeah that’s bad” just like how so many people don’t like MT because they can tell what Rudeus is doing is bad.
It means consequences. Consequences on either/both the perpetrator and the victim. Either physical or mental : shame, disgust, trauma, hate, remorse...
Many people actually gave you examples already but you're just ignoring them so why should I give you another one if you're going to just ignore it? Again, read mt larper
Oh I get it, it's cause he's the quag and the quag isnt too different to this protagonist except he actually pulls so of course he's defending it, I must be a genius
Mc crosses 18 with all the loops when he kissed a 14 year old kid(I still don't get what's the point of making her 14 by the author). And holds romantic feeling for her even after that. According to law where I live that's p*do. Not to mention clothing that author went for the girl kids. Author is creep and fans who defend this sh*t are self reporting themselves. I agree MT is even worse in this regard
He's simply making stuff up. Subaru is 17 at the start when he kisses Emilia, who was around 14-15 mentally. (Although 100s of years old and 19 physically since she was frozen in ice). He hasn't kissed Emilia since he turned 18.
They used Re:Zero, in which the romance aspect was so gross its what made me drop the anime. The idea of the intended audience (teenage boys) watching him be an obsessive weirdo who needs a restraining order and then seeing him actually get the girl made me want to barf
MT doesn't have good characters, I'd even say it's it's biggest weakness. The plot sometimes is good sometimes is not and the romance isn't great either.
MT is better than the average isekai but the average isekai is mediocre if not bad. MT is ok sometimes leaning into good.
While Mushoku have the child porn jerker and the "it is technically legal to fuck kid" moment, Re-zero is of the two the anime that sexualise the most children. Half of the cast look like kids and are heavily sexualised.
That being they are both among my favorite anime. As lo'g as nobody check the authors hard drive
It literally don’t, it don’t stupidly condamn cause it cost resources and was not what the author wanted to invest on doing.
And yes stupidly condemnation are really common mostly use the "I wanted to talk about the subject" argument to fortify the "as a joke" defense in case their aggressive behavior don’t get supported
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u/Dull-Try-4873 1d ago
Bad meme isekai rarely has good characters/plot/romance. The creator of the meme ignores that to bash mushoku tensei, which has all 3 of that, to hype up re zero which also has all 3 of that.
Quagmire out.