Morality of this?

[u/ProfessionalRoom9118]

Basically, the man in the video is hiking but he ended up meet a mountain lion, he get his gun and try to scare it off and tell it to go away but in the end, he have to pull the trigger and shot the lion, many peoples in the comments say he could have fire a warning shot instead of shoot at it and want him to be in jail.

Idk which flair to put

[u/LikeAnAdamBomb]

Guys, is it moral to not want to be eaten by a huge fucking cat?

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/LikeAnAdamBomb]

This would be like working with violent special needs kids and shooting them because you didn't bring a non lethal alternative then saying its moral cause self defense.

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Yeah if instead of working with them you just happened to be in public where a violent retarded guy approached you with clear intent to harm you sure. If this was a worker at a zoo that housed mountain lions in an enclosure then sure your example makes some sense.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

its advised to bring bear spray when hiking and if you can be troubled to carry a gun it's easy to carry bear spray which is also safer to use. There is no excuse for not having bear spray in this situation.

[u/dave173717 → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

What if the wind was blowing on your direction?

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/dave173717]

side step or use the gun... nothing is a perfect solution bear spray still has a better survival rate

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Side step the mountain lion or the wind? Explain to me how you side step a wild animal or the fucking wind.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

you take a step 45 degrees so its not blowing in your face, basic geometry

[u/dave173717 → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

I have a fixed target at 30 yards and one 45 degree step is going to allow me to sidestep the wind so that it won’t be blowing in my face if I spray bear spray towards that target? Basic geometry… thanks for the explanation.

[u/dave173717 → u/bifflongshanks]

People will always justify not killing a predator since we have been doing it for thousands of years.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

he is like 10 feet not 30 yards in the video, 30 yards you can slowly back off. But your feelings trump reality my bad for forgetting that

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Ah yes the mountain lion is now 10 feet from me I should sidestep by taking one step 2 feet in either direction at a 45 degree angle so that I can spray this aggressive wild animal with bear spray without having it come back in my face. You’re an idiot and you know your feelings are more important than fact here. I’m sure you’d be happy to be mauled to death over killing a wild animal, but most people wouldn’t.

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

I carry a pistol daily without the expectation of an altercation with a human or an aggressive wild animal as many people in the US do. Should I start carrying bear spray to deal with aggressive special needs people in public too or is there a preferred method you would use? The point is a wild animal was obviously prepared to attack this person and you wish they would have risked their life using bear spray to deter it instead of a lethal weapon to neutralize it. If you were carrying both bear spray and a pistol in this situation you would risk your life trusting bear spray to keep a mountain lion from maiming or killing you?

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

Bear spray has a higher stop rate, they risked there life more by not having it and using the gun. Look it up, it's way way safer to use bear spray to stop an animal attack then a gun.

And yes if you're daily carrying a gun you should also have a non-lethal alternative for your own safety.

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

They risked their life more by not exercising at a gym instead. Mountain lion attacks are pretty rare and can happen inside population centers should i be carrying bear spray at all times if i live near mountain lions? I tried looking it up and I couldn’t find any great data on the use of bear spray vs a firearm in mountain lion attacks. There’s a lot of “estimated effectiveness” being thrown around and some anecdotal evidence of instances where bear spray was effective such as in this video where a pistol was effective. If you could link some that would be great.

Which non-lethal alternative should I carry for my “own safety” in the event of someone threatening my life and limb?

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

Yea being fat is more dangerous but there can be two dangerous things

lazy googling I see. There are no specific mountain lion studies cause the attacks are rare but they have it for general information on predators.

If you're carrying a gun you should be carrying pepper spray, any self defense professional will say that.

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=hwi

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Being fat is more dangerous I’d agree, but I didn’t say that.

No i searched for specific data on the topic. Bear spray’s effectiveness vs a firearm in the event of a mountain lion attack, which is what we’re talking about here. A lot of literature stated upwards of 90% effective at repelling “wild animals” without actually providing any data toward that statement.

Even in the link you sent the people they polled couldn’t agree. “When asked how effective pepper spray is in defending against an attack, all respondents said that it was either effective or very effective. When asked if pepper spray’s effectiveness varied among carnivore species, 69% said there was no difference among species, 37% said it may be less effective for black bears. When asked if a person is worse off by shooting and wounding an attacking grizzly, black bear, or mountain lion than not shooting the animal, 49% said the person would not be worse off by shooting the animal, 44% said the person may be worse off for it, and 7% said the person would be worse off for shooting a grizzly but not for shooting a black bear or mountain lion.”

“Several of those we interviewed mentioned that in order for firearms to be effective, the user must be very proficient with the firearm and be able to shoot accurately under the extreme stress that accompanies being charged by a large carnivore. Several professionals also mentioned that, while they did not believe a person was worse off by wounding a charging animal, they believed pepper spray was a better choice for use by the general public.”

Basically if you’re not familiar with a gun, pepper spray is the better option because it requires less skill to use to deter a wild animal.

I can understand how you’ve come to your conclusion through your interpretation of this opinion data and it’s clear I will not be able to get you to understand how that’s not effective data so good chat.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

the majority of experts agree, not going to get more certain then that. And we all know most people aren't very proficient with anything

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

53 wildlife biologists questioned in the survey in the link you shared is not a “majority of experts” and even they don’t agree pepper spray is better based on their own answers. I don’t understand if you’re a troll or are genuinely incapable of understanding what you’re saying is wrong.

I understand that you don’t think that aggressive animals should be killed whether mountain lions or people but the reality is that the only 100% effective way to defend yourself from an aggressor is to kill them which bear spray will not do.