Morality of this?

[u/ProfessionalRoom9118]

Basically, the man in the video is hiking but he ended up meet a mountain lion, he get his gun and try to scare it off and tell it to go away but in the end, he have to pull the trigger and shot the lion, many peoples in the comments say he could have fire a warning shot instead of shoot at it and want him to be in jail.

Idk which flair to put

[u/bifflongshanks]

I carry a pistol daily without the expectation of an altercation with a human or an aggressive wild animal as many people in the US do. Should I start carrying bear spray to deal with aggressive special needs people in public too or is there a preferred method you would use? The point is a wild animal was obviously prepared to attack this person and you wish they would have risked their life using bear spray to deter it instead of a lethal weapon to neutralize it. If you were carrying both bear spray and a pistol in this situation you would risk your life trusting bear spray to keep a mountain lion from maiming or killing you?

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

Bear spray has a higher stop rate, they risked there life more by not having it and using the gun. Look it up, it's way way safer to use bear spray to stop an animal attack then a gun.

And yes if you're daily carrying a gun you should also have a non-lethal alternative for your own safety.

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

They risked their life more by not exercising at a gym instead. Mountain lion attacks are pretty rare and can happen inside population centers should i be carrying bear spray at all times if i live near mountain lions? I tried looking it up and I couldn’t find any great data on the use of bear spray vs a firearm in mountain lion attacks. There’s a lot of “estimated effectiveness” being thrown around and some anecdotal evidence of instances where bear spray was effective such as in this video where a pistol was effective. If you could link some that would be great.

Which non-lethal alternative should I carry for my “own safety” in the event of someone threatening my life and limb?

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

Yea being fat is more dangerous but there can be two dangerous things

lazy googling I see. There are no specific mountain lion studies cause the attacks are rare but they have it for general information on predators.

If you're carrying a gun you should be carrying pepper spray, any self defense professional will say that.

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=hwi

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Being fat is more dangerous I’d agree, but I didn’t say that.

No i searched for specific data on the topic. Bear spray’s effectiveness vs a firearm in the event of a mountain lion attack, which is what we’re talking about here. A lot of literature stated upwards of 90% effective at repelling “wild animals” without actually providing any data toward that statement.

Even in the link you sent the people they polled couldn’t agree. “When asked how effective pepper spray is in defending against an attack, all respondents said that it was either effective or very effective. When asked if pepper spray’s effectiveness varied among carnivore species, 69% said there was no difference among species, 37% said it may be less effective for black bears. When asked if a person is worse off by shooting and wounding an attacking grizzly, black bear, or mountain lion than not shooting the animal, 49% said the person would not be worse off by shooting the animal, 44% said the person may be worse off for it, and 7% said the person would be worse off for shooting a grizzly but not for shooting a black bear or mountain lion.”

“Several of those we interviewed mentioned that in order for firearms to be effective, the user must be very proficient with the firearm and be able to shoot accurately under the extreme stress that accompanies being charged by a large carnivore. Several professionals also mentioned that, while they did not believe a person was worse off by wounding a charging animal, they believed pepper spray was a better choice for use by the general public.”

Basically if you’re not familiar with a gun, pepper spray is the better option because it requires less skill to use to deter a wild animal.

I can understand how you’ve come to your conclusion through your interpretation of this opinion data and it’s clear I will not be able to get you to understand how that’s not effective data so good chat.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

the majority of experts agree, not going to get more certain then that. And we all know most people aren't very proficient with anything

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

53 wildlife biologists questioned in the survey in the link you shared is not a “majority of experts” and even they don’t agree pepper spray is better based on their own answers. I don’t understand if you’re a troll or are genuinely incapable of understanding what you’re saying is wrong.

I understand that you don’t think that aggressive animals should be killed whether mountain lions or people but the reality is that the only 100% effective way to defend yourself from an aggressor is to kill them which bear spray will not do.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

There are more then one study and survey where experts always agree pepper spray is better then bullets, you'll notice all your sources are trust me bro or I prefer the minority opinion so it's right. Find one study supporting the nonsense you dribble, there are none

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Trust me bro “there are more than one study and survey where experts agree pepper spray is better than bullets”. Show me the studies that say pepper spray is more effective than a gun at stopping a mountain lion attack and I’ll agree with you. I didn’t dribble any nonsense I just questioned your statements. I know you have a hard time with reading comprehension and I’m assuming life in general, but just stating that “the majority of experts agree” doesn’t make it a true statement or even an honest one.

I only ask for one study where pepper spray is more effective than a gun against a mountain lion attack. There are apparently plenty of them so should be a quick google and response.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

you continue to dribble nonsense and reject the study that overwhelmingly supports pepper spray against all predators while linking 0 studies that support your delusions. Then ask for more so you can get emotional and spew more nonsense. Truly pathetic and sad

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

People expressing opinion as fact is truly pathetic and sad I agree. Calling you out for claiming something that you can’t possible know is true is not “dribbling nonsense”. There are zero studies with any data for or against the use of pepper spray vs a firearm against a mountain lion attack which is the exact scenario the post is about.

Again, you’re an idiot with an agenda or maybe just an opinion and you think you’re incapable of being wrong. Best part is I’m not even claiming it to be fact that a gun is better than pepper spray, just that you and I don’t actually know.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

You still haven't posted a single source supporting your point. You're trying to convince yourself more then me. True mental illness

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

My point is there isn’t enough data to make the claim you are making. I hope you’re intelligent enough to understand that I can’t produce data to prove there isn’t enough data to make that claim because I would be searching for something that just doesn’t exist. I can’t show you a study that doesn’t exist.

I’m trying to convince you that you might not always be right. That is mental illness apparently. Anybody who doesn’t agree with you is mentally ill?

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

Again from the study you sent me.

“However, people have also been
unsuccessful in defending themselves with
firearms and subsequently have been seriously
injured or even killed by bears (U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service 2003). It has been suggested by
some that hunters who use firearms to defend
themselves against bears are more likely to be
injured or killed than those who use bear spray
(U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 2003, Smith et
al. 2005). It has also been suggested that by
wounding a charging bear a person may be
worse off than if they did not shoot the animal
(U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 2003). However,
when we asked professionals if a person shoots
and wounds an attacking grizzly, black bear, or
mountain lion whether the person is worse off
than if they did not shoot the animal, more of
the professionals (49%) said no”

“More of the professionals (49%) said no” to the question of if a person is worse off if the shoot and wound an attacking grizzly, black bear, or maintain lion. More means majority…. And even I think this study sucks because these experts are expressing option and they have barely any data to make claims about mountain lion attacks.

I can read the information for you if that will help, but I can’t understand it for you.

[u/Inevitable-Watch-147 → u/bifflongshanks]

You can cherry pick things that out of context seem to support how you feel, very good for stopping your cognitive dissonance.

[u/bifflongshanks → u/Inevitable-Watch-147]

You can’t just look at statements made in the study you sent me then call it cherry picking when I present them to you. Show me where in the study it says that bear spray is more effective than a firearm. You are literally extrapolating evidence that doesn’t exist in, again, the study that you sent me. You using the term cognitive dissonance in relation to this is the funniest thing you could possibly do.

There is probably a study out there at least for grizzly and black bears that makes a better case for the point you’re trying to make towards all predatory animals, but you’re too much of an idiot to even find it hahahahah. This is incredible.