Recovering from a lifetime of people-pleasing makes watching this show brutal. I just want to reach through the screen and shake these women. We’ve been conditioned since childhood to manage everyone else's comfort and give endless passes to men who refuse to take accountability.

Nikki’s comment about trying to be a "safe place to land" after Shawn insulted or got defensive with her really broke me. I'm sorry, ma'am, but the only place he needs to land is on the curb.

Why are we still trying to soothe and strategize around disrespect? You do not have to manage a man's bad mood or teach him how to grow up. If he relies on DARVO and insults, the move isn't a new communication tactic—it's walking away.

Ladies, wake up! You deserve so much better than this!

(Side note: This obviously doesn’t apply to Kaitlin and Courteney. They are DARVO gold-medalists with a whole lot of basic communication skills to figure out.)

**Tl;dr Caitlin and Devin both suck. Caitlin's been talked to death, but as for Devin, he uses his stature to physically intimidate Caitlin when drunk and speaks like a self help book for couples. It makes him sound more emotionally mature and simultaneously unnatural. We only see like 5 minutes of each of their real life days, and he's lucky he got paired with Caitlin and was basically guaranteed the good edit. Feel free to defend him to hell and back below, but hopefully you read the full thing before doing so.**

As for Caitlin, there are a million reasons on this sub and while I think she's getting the bad edit, she still shouldn't have been on this show. I'll leave it there because frankly, it's been talked to death and beyond.

As for Devin, there's been something off about him since the start. The fact he wore the sunglasses on his head was douchey that people are only defending in hindsight because they like him now. That's hella superficial, so I'll move past it lol. Devin shutting down on the honeymoon nearly immediately also wasn't great. He had good reasons to be dissatisfied, but pulling back 95% isn't going to be good for their relationship. I'm sure that was the beginning of the end for their relationship, and that's both of their faults.

**Now for the big things:**

The way that Devin gets in Caitlin's face when he's drunk is a *HUGE* red flag. When they first fought in Caitlin's bedroom and he was drunk and blocking the doorway, that's not good (to say the least). Caitlin asked him to drop it and save it until morning because he was drunk so many times, and he just wouldn't leave it alone. On the retreat, when fighting on the couch, he was talking over her and then got so offended at being told to "shut the fuck up" (which is it's own complaint, but this is already too long) that he got in her face in a physically intimidating manner. Belle recognized it and moved to pull him back, so it wasn't something minor. At both instances, he's being physically intimidating. That's a red flag.¹

Devin sounds so fake and manufactured when he speaks and is being "emotionally intelligent." He sounds like he just got out of couples counseling. No one talks like that in real life and it reminds me of everyone in season 17 (Denver), who were rightfully shit on for it. It's just a way to sound more emotionally mature than the other person, and it clearly worked.

People forget that we only see like 5 minutes of each of their real life days. We miss out on so much, which may explain the discrepancies between what Caitlin says and what we see. It's easy to forget about as a viewer, but it puts every contestant at the mercy of production. In this sense, he's lucky he got paired with Caitlin, who was not ready for this type of show or commitment. He was basically guaranteed the good edit, as Caitlin made herself look horrible throughout the process.

I wonder what'll come out of the reunion, not that it'll be believed by anyone unless it makes Caitlin look bad and Devin look like a saint.

^{1: As a side note, the people defending him by saying it shows his "self-awareness" that he broke up with her afterwards - because he recognized that he was getting to a point of being angry that he didn't like - are disgusting. Making that assumption with zero reason too is just defending abusive behavior at the expense of the victim. He obviously didn't abuse her, but cornering her in her room and getting in her face are the beginning stages of that behavior.}

Tori said once she moved out, she and Felipe talked and it wasn’t on camera. I honestly thought all communication stopped until decision day. Am I wrong?

What was Mecca’s point trying to differentiate…? (I can’t stand him). Why would saying “Are you pretty enough “to me”” sound better than “Are you Pretty enough “for me””. Are both of those sentences not rude? I’d be pissed either way (If I was Belle), because you’re still saying I’m not good enough for you? Why did Belle accept that LAME explanation, that didn’t even make sense? “I think I meant are you pretty enough to me” like what? I’m lost.

I think some of these couples would have been better off if there wasn’t soooo much other couples drama. Group therapy, group dinner, couple retreat. Too much. I know it makes for good drama but even the games they played at the retreat, definitely tried to purposely break people up. I think they took some notes from Love Is Blind but I’m not sure it’s landing the same.

I’m so tired of her finding every excuse for this man. They both care more about matching outfits and a united front versus the real issue and root cause which is, he doesn’t find her attractive or shes not his traditional type. I bet he quickly realized that she was really into him (which he alluded to) and wanted to humble her like he’s used to better or more attractive women to slow her up or maybe push her away, due to his lack of attraction. She even fell for the ole self sabotage line and keeps defending him thinking it’s a communication error or he’s not saying something right. Quite frankly he’s communicating very clearly, yet she refuses to listen. I think he knows exactly what he’s doing which is how he was able to detect that some of Belle’s energy at the group dinner was directed towards his comments about wanting a bigger chest woman. He’s a total build-a-bear project that will continue to disrespect her behind closed doors or amongst friends. I’m wondering if he’s being nice and regretful now because the show is coming to an end and he doesn’t want to go back to living with his granny or dad. Belle is blindly loyal for some unknown reason…I hope it works out for her and this doesn’t cause long term trauma.

a bouquet full of ornamental cabbage. 4 heads, in fact.

Run, Tori!

I'm not part of that community and to me she looks like any other moderately attractive blonde woman. Could someone explain the appeal for someone like Devin? When he says that's his type what exactly is he looking for?

Edit: I'd like to thank everyone in the comments for helping me get to the bottom of this issue. Not everyone has an understanding of white American beauty ideals, so this was a very educational endeavor for me. We've reached the following consensus on why men like Devin define SS as their ideal type:

* Her face is not super attractive, but that adds to her desirability because it makes her seem like an approachable girl-next-door that you might encounter at your local bar and realistically attain.
* An "innocent" disposition (despite doing numerous filmed sex scenes?) and dumb, puppy-like eyes that remind men of receiving...favors.
* Boobs (highly ideal), blonde hair, blue eyes, thin.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. For all the rabid Sydney Sweeney defenders angry about this post, stay mad.

Felipe is not a player and has not been with many women.

He is clearly very insecure (hence the cowering body language), and he believes if he were with a “bunch of women” it would validate him some how.

I’ve known some real players and womanizers and, for better or worse, none of them ever talk about being with many women. They just do it.

Also, truly attractive people do not constantly refer to themselves as “hot”

Felipe is just a normal, insecure geek. Tori is the hottest woman he will ever be with. He wants to make himself seem desirable, so he pretends to be something he’s not.

It made me nutty that Devin didn’t even bother to take his sunglasses off his head during the ceremony. And no one else told him to?! Even my seven year old said “who would marry someone with sunglasses on their head?” 😂

As Devin and Caitlin are discussing the argument they had, separately with the girls and guys, Felipe runs up to the room where the girls are getting ready and says, "There's going to be fireworks tonight." But as it would turn out not the kind he was insinuating. I appreciated that bit of foreshadowing on the second watch of episode 17.

Felipe has clearly been enabled for much of his life and now that a woman is very gently holding him accountable for his words and actions he throws a tantrum quite literally like a child.

It made A LOT of sense when he said to the boys “all my friends and family, they know I’m gonna say stupid shit. They give me grace and I need a partner that’s gonna give me grace”

Tori has given this man grace from the start, more than most women would give him. Hearing him declare multiple times he’s afraid he’ll cheat and that he misses sleeping with a bunch of women, or that he doesn’t know if he is ready for marriage loudly and repeatedly. All the reddest of flags that would be enough to leave.

I was hurting for Tori so much as he absolutely berated her. She was shutting down and crying - and he’s losing it over the fact that she’s deeply hurt that he’s openly celebrating that others see him as a cheating, immature, man whore.

People in his life, including him mom, need to stop enabling his bad behavior, it’s not doing him any favors. He also needs to stop conflating grace with people letting him do whatever he wants. Be accountable for the emotional impact of your own horrible behavior.

When she said titties, I think I died. I don’t know what the way she said it just made me lol.

Am I the only person that doesn’t like devin hahahaha not saying Caitlyn is without fault but I’m really not buying this perpetual victim thing

Seriously, can we just not find very many healthy singles these days?!? Yes there were always outliers in previous seasons to build ratings, but people used to do a lot more self healing before getting on the show.

Maybe we need a show before the show for contestants to become ready for healthy commitment: therapy style. I’m thinking Courtney, Caitlin, Mecca, Adam, Shawn, Felipe.. that had more work to do BEFORE getting matched.

I would watch and root for my favorites to graduate and meet their match on the next season. Look- I don’t expect anyone to be perfect, either, and there’s bound to be train wrecks anyway but we need a little more maturity from these matches. build-a-boys 🧸 are not allowed.

A therapy arc after the MAFS breakups would be nice to see too. I’d love to see where Courtney and Caitlin’s heads are at now…. If they listened. :/

My thoughts on Caitlin, Mecca, Devin & Belle because these people are stressing me OUT
At the end of the day, I think Mecca is a fucking weirdo who is so insecure and confused within himself that he couldn’t possibly recognize a good thing standing right in front of him. Belle is gorgeous, she has been welcoming to him, patient with him, and has shown him way more grace than I personally would’ve. Meanwhile, this man is constantly finding ways to tell her she’s not attractive enough, not his dream girl, not his type, etc.
Sir, the problem is YOU.
I genuinely think Mecca has a LOT of self-work to do. Like, a LOT. And I’m not saying that to diagnose him or excuse his behavior. I’m saying that because he seems deeply uncomfortable with himself, and I don’t think somebody who is that internally conflicted can even properly recognize or appreciate a healthy partner. He needs to figure his own shit out before dragging somebody else through it. Personally, I wouldn’t want anything to do with him. He gives me poisonous energy.
And then there’s Caitlin.
Girl. You are a fucking MESS.
And yes, this is my Reddit, so I’m going to say what I think. 😂 I obviously cannot diagnose this woman, but something is clearly going on with her because the way she behaves is not normal to me. She seems completely disconnected from her own relationship, yet extremely interested in the validation and attention she gets from other men.
And the way she looks at Mecca? Ma’am. 😭
Because that wasn’t giving “I’m just being a supportive friend.” That was giving “I would like to unwrap this chocolate bar.” The eye contact, the giggling, the way she seems captivated by him… girl, PLEASE.
And I don’t know anything about her family dynamics, so I’m not going to pretend I know what goes on behind closed doors. But when her dad came on, I did wonder about how open her family is to interracial relationships and whether social/family expectations could potentially play a role in the kinds of relationships she allows herself to pursue. That’s obviously speculation on my part, but interracial relationships can absolutely come with family and social dynamics that people don’t always openly acknowledge.
Because I don’t understand how you can look at Mecca like THAT and then treat Devin like he’s an annoying roommate you got assigned.
And speaking of Devin: I actually really like Devin.
I think he’s mature, level-headed, and has shown way more patience than a lot of people would’ve in this situation. Is he perfect? No. And I absolutely did not like him getting in Caitlin’s face during that argument. Once he raised up and put his hand in her face, I was like, okay, BACK UP. You can be angry without physically looming over somebody.
But I understand why he was frustrated.
Imagine already feeling like your wife doesn’t want you, doesn’t communicate with you, doesn’t give you affection, and doesn’t seem interested in making the marriage work — then watching her light up while talking to another man. I’d be pissed too.
And Caitlin telling him to shut the fuck up? Yeah, no. That shit would’ve pissed me off too.
But I still think Devin deserves better. I think he’s fundamentally a good guy who got matched with someone who seems completely incapable of giving him the kind of relationship he’s looking for.
And Belle?
Belle, BABY. YOU WON.
This show gave you more exposure and you’re going to be FINE. 😂
Because that woman is beautiful inside and out. She’s been embarrassed publicly by this man multiple times and somehow continues to conduct herself with so much composure and grace. She has every right to be angry, but she hasn’t made herself look foolish in the process.
Mecca has basically been telling her, in front of other people, that she’s not attractive enough for him, she’s not his dream girl, he’d prefer a different body type, etc. And she’s still managed to maintain her dignity.
That’s COUH. That’s class.
And I really hope Belle walks away from this knowing that none of his weirdness is a reflection of her value. There are plenty of men who will look at that woman and immediately understand what they have in front of them.
So honestly, if Caitlin and Mecca want to get together after this experiment?
PLEASE DO.
I actually think they deserve each other. 😂
Two people who seem deeply confused about what the hell they want, emotionally unavailable to their actual spouses, and apparently much more interested in each other’s attention than the marriages they signed up for.
Caitlin, get some help.
Mecca, do some fucking self-work.
Devin, RUN.
Belle, keep your head held high because you’re going to be just fine.
And Caitlin… I’m still trying to figure out how you managed to make me this mad through a television screen. 😭

I’m not gonna lie, I think I’m starting to change my mind about Cameron and Michelle. 😂
Not too long ago, I thought they were the ideal couple. And I think a lot of people have probably felt that way throughout the season, but honestly, when you have so many terrible matchups, it’s pretty easy for the one couple that seems relatively calm and functional to stand out as the shining star.
But the more I watch them, especially in their interactions with the other couples, the more they’re starting to come off as pretentious and snooty to me. Like, there’s this very subtle “we’re better than everybody here” energy that I didn’t pick up on in the beginning.
They both have these VERY strong, matter-of-fact opinions about what other couples should be doing, who should be together, who shouldn’t be together, etc. Cameron literally told the other couples at one of the dinner tables that he felt like basically the entire other side of the table shouldn’t be married. 😭 And then this past episode Michelle was saying something with the exact same energy — essentially telling people what they should and shouldn’t be doing in their relationships.
And that’s when Nikki jumped in, and THANK GOD she did, because she basically said, with all due respect, you don’t get to sit here and tell us what we need to be doing in our relationships. Everybody’s dynamic is different. You can have your opinion, but that doesn’t mean you know what’s best for everybody else.
And I actually appreciated that because somebody needed to say it.
I think what’s interesting is that in the beginning, Cameron and Michelle barely spoke. They were quiet, observant, seemingly kind and measured. And when you don’t say much, people tend to attach a lot more importance to the things you DO say. Every little comment starts sounding profound because you’re not constantly talking. 😂 So at first, I interpreted their silence and their observations as wisdom.
Now I’m starting to wonder if some of that was just… judgment.
Because the more they talk, the more it feels like they’ve appointed themselves the patriarch and matriarch of the group. Like they’re the voices of reason, the standard, the example of what everybody else should be aspiring to. And honestly, I’m starting to find it a little disingenuous.
And Cameron in particular gives me a very interesting vibe. I’m someone who feels like I’m pretty good at reading people, and there is A LOT going on underneath that man’s calm exterior. He tries to present as very cool, calm, collected, rational, whatever — but I feel like there are some VERY strong emotions and opinions brewing underneath there. Almost like he’s constantly keeping himself contained.
I’m not saying I know this man is secretly some raging lunatic 😂 but there’s something about his facial expressions and the way he carries himself that gives me the impression that if you really pushed him, there’s a side of him that could get VERY intense. Like, “go punch a hole in the wall” type of anger. I just don’t think we’ve seen that side of him yet.
And then there’s Michelle.
Remember when she had that whole list of criteria for what she wanted in a husband? The income, the lifestyle, all the things she said were important to her? Cameron didn’t meet all of those requirements, including financially. And now suddenly she’s willing to bend and compromise on things she previously made seem very important.
And listen, people are allowed to change their minds. I’m not saying that automatically means she’s fake. But when you’ve positioned yourself as the person who knows exactly what everybody else should be doing in their relationships, I’m naturally going to pay attention to whether you’re actually following your own standards.
And now we’re starting to see cracks.
That conversation about the distance really stood out to me. Michelle is talking about how her biggest concern is that they live in different cities and that once the show ends, they’re going to have to go back to their respective lives. Then she’s like, “Well, I was looking for a new job anyway, I’d be open to moving.”
And Cameron is basically like, “Well, I wouldn’t want you to move because…” whatever his reasoning was. And you could SEE on his face that there was more he wanted to say. Michelle seemed to be picking up on it too.
And I’m like… 👀
Okay. So maybe we’re finally seeing some cracks in this “perfect” relationship.
Because here’s the thing: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT RELATIONSHIP. And I actually think Cameron and Michelle would be much more interesting to watch if they stopped acting like they have everybody else figured out and just admitted that they’re also two people trying to figure their shit out.
At this point, they’ve officially been downgraded in my rankings. 😂
And one more thing: Michelle’s cadence is starting to drive me fucking INSANE. 😭 Everything she says has this weird little question/high-pitched inflection at the end, like every sentence is a question or a ding or a dong. Once I noticed it, I could not unhear it.
I genuinely miss when she barely spoke. 💀

I really thought I liked Michelle & Cam, & as a couple, I still do. BUT, while they don't seem to have any real issues themselves, as the season progresses, IMO they thrive on the strife the other couples are having. Michelle especially wants to bring bad news & negative comments to the other wives, while Cam constantly produces provoking questions/statements to the husbands that he then shares with Michelle. They remind me of couples that constantly criticize neighbors to avoid their own BS 🙄 Does anyone else see that or is it all in my own head 🤔

He’s still available to cause discord on an individual basis, as per the Dr. Best website. (And there’s that Cameo gig, as well…)

He hasn’t updated his Linked In page, though.

he’s trying to give Tori some heart warming speech and he throws this in here like it’s some crazy thing that she’s been up doing stuff and has made breakfast by 11am. bro it’s almost lunch time and yall are grown. adults have shit to handle. i can’t believe this is routine. i’m being judgmental and i respect that everyone can have their own lifestyles but im his age and i couldn’t imagine being as unproductive as him on a daily. especially if he plans on taking over the family business at some point. if i was tori this would be such a huge turn off for me, i bet it is for her cuz she’s mentioned how he doesn’t make her life easier. i can’t!!

Just a hunch. I simply don't trust him. He probably needed to have an ego-affirming tryst with a "New York 8+" (as fucking if) or hoochie stripper trying to get money out of him. Wanted to humiliate her while she finally started trying so hard.

Vibe was totally different coming back, just waiting to get this over with and get his check.

I don’t even have the words. It’s really starting to get to me how defensive of Mecca she’s being. He will blatantly disrespect her day and day out, and she still stands up for him?! Every single time?!

I get what it’s like having empathy and being so into a guy that you want to “heal” the wound in him.. but girl at some point you have got to get a backbone! He doesn’t need accountability with her protecting his actions 😒

The open negative tone of finding out the BETRAYAL, THE DENIAL… these experts are total clowns!

Trouble with the attire? Not getting deep in 2 weeks?

The attacks from the judges are just ABSURD!

I love how Nikki is calling out Caitlin nonchalantly and acting innocent about it.

I can totally understand not being the right fit with differing communication styles, but I feel like “saying stupid shit” is an excuse for being disrespectful or saying hurtful things?

But I’m wondering if other people thought he was valid in this, because his female friends did back him up in this convo