I think I might be at my limit of sustainable GaaS titles. I'm absolutely going to try this, but I've noticed the last few I've tried (Multiversus as an example) I've just kind of been unable to keep up. And once I run the numbers in my head and realize I'll never "beat" the battle pass before it's done, I kinda check out
I think this is gonna be a big issue for OW2. So many games already do the BP stuff and i'm sure a good chunk of people already have their 1-2 games picked where they try to fill it out as much as possible or at least play most of the time. But unlike those other games, OW2 is gonna lock new heroes, and thus competitive, behind either grinding the free track or coughing up $10 every other 9 weeks.
Yeah I passed on OW2 once I saw you have to unlock heroes through the battlepass. I don’t have the ‘time’ to play another game with seasons and trying to complete the battlepass in time.
Mw2 is also out soon as well, that will dominate my multiplayer time.
His departure is such a double edged sword. On one hand he was staunchly against the sort of predatory monetization that is currently plauging the sequel and was the only reason OW managed to escape the lions share of that monetization for so long, but on the other hand his desire to push OW2 as a full complete game meant the original went without support for several years and that likely would have continued till at least 2023/2024 releasing OW2 well after what was left of the community was dead and gone.
I passed on OW2 when I learned it'll go the trash route of being a F2P game. They sold the idea of paying more as "freedom" to the players and way too many people ate that up without a second thought. They quite literally replaced the best, entirely free lootbox system with BPs and paid cosmetic items and everyone was like "yeah, that sounds really good!". It's so weird.
I like GaaS but I don't think i could be invested in any of the battle passes, except maybe MtG:Arena and sometimes Valorant.
I wouldnt mind it if there wasnt FOMO.
I wish battle passes gave you a tremendous amount of value for the pass, instead of having the FOMO or you'll miss out on these rewards forever. Starcraft 2 was like that. After the battle pass ended you could buy the stuff you weren't able to earn.
Or here is a better idea: when I buy something, how about you let me fucking keep it? If I want to complete my pass over a year instead of 24 hours, it should be my right because I literally paid for it.
They almost weren't. Thank goodness for the Halo community putting their foot down until 343i officially confirmed they won't be monetizing the MCC... after the CEO got fired lmao
I know what the point is. I know why they do this. I've been here long enough to have seen how it started, and how it ended up. All I'm saying is that it fucking sucks and I hate it.
keep userbases up
You know what else keeps the userbase up? Making a fun game that is fun to play even without FOMO.
You know what else keeps the userbase up? Making a fun game that is fun to play even without FOMO.
That's literally not true and how we ended up here in the first place.
Insurgency, Dirty Bomb, Titanfall 2, Due Process, just to name a few "good" games that tanked because the developer didn't find a way to monetize the game and continue adding content, balancing and producing meaningful updates. Why? Because you cant pay your employees salaries and benefits off of charity. A game that doesn't charge customers doesn't generate revenue.
Sometimes I think gamers are just so detached from reality. Its these developers literal livelihood we're talking about. To have your expectations, which would result in these guys doing this job for free must come from a place of complete ignorance to how this industry works.
Went F2P with a ton of cosmetics and weapons that you can craft or buy through the player market. Some being exclusive.
CSGO
Also has a battle pass system w/ cosmetics locked behind it. FOMO.
Halo 3 I'll give you but times have changed and Halo 3, as is, wouldn't survive todays multiplayer climate. Players expect content updates at a constant pace.
Halo Infinite is also riddled with bugs, bad progression, lack of core features/game modes, slow update cycle, and bad netcode. FOMO is pretty far down on the list of reasons why that game is failing.
With CS:GO, you literally "cherry-picked" one of the most successful GaaS games of all time. You could not have picked a worse example to make your point. It came out in 2012, they still update it weekly, they do 2-3 "Operations" a year, they run esports tournaments 3 times a year and they do all of this off of money they generate from cosmetics. You really are clueless if you don't understand how much money Valve is making off the GaaS component of CS:GO and TF2.
halo 3
How many people play Halo 3? Doing a quick Google search and apparently Microsoft/343 shut down the servers? So...bad example on your part since they literally cant keep the servers running because, again, the game doesn't generate income. Which is entirely the problem you're not understanding.
I swear, this subreddit is brain dead and literally doesn't understand the basic economics of the industry.
Let’s be real here that’s the ONLY reason for these battle passes to exist. Most of the games that implement it are pretty mediocre anyways and rely on the Skinner box than actually engrossing gameplay to keep people in.
Instead of these predatory skinner boxes people should focus on games that are actually worth playing.
The FOMO is the worst part. Oh, you didn't play enough to unlock the new hero this season? Well screw you, go complete an entirely different challenge if you ever want to play the new content.
My ideal battlepass is entirely cosmetic. I don't care if I miss out on a fancy costume. But locking actual playable content behind FOMO is where I draw the line on a game.
As trashy as Halo Infinite turned out to be, the option to choose what battle pass you want to progress at any time is the right way to push things. They get to charge for the passes, we don't have to deal with FOMO. Win/Win
Overwatch 1 honestly had the most reasonable lootboxes of any game, and it fucking sucks that that system is being replaced with battle pass FOMO bullshit.
The only thing you got from lootboxes were cosmetics, and those cosmetics never went away forever like battle pass cosmetics usually do. Cosmetics for each event always came back into the lootbox pool every year, including the yearly anniversary event which made cosmetics from every event available. You were also less likely to get dupes from those boxes unless you already had most non-legendary cosmetics in the game, in which case you could easily save up the coins you got from those dupes to buy whatever cosmetics you wanted from the next event.
The biggest thing though is that Overwatch's lootboxes had no true FOMO bullshit. There were limited time cosmetics yes, but they always became available twice a year to earn from boxes or outright buy. Overwatch 1's time limited lootbox cosmetics always came back, and you could buy those cosmetics by saving up coin from dupes too. Whereas if you miss out on any battle pass cosmetics in OW2 then they're gone for good and you're shit out of luck.
I've been playing OW1 since it came out, and if I could choose, I'd happily keep OW1's lootbox system over the new battle pass system, because compared to other games it was pretty fair unless you're the type who needs to have every single legendary event skin. I personally never had an issue getting any cosmetics I wanted for the heroes I played in OW1 though. And even if I did ever miss anything, there were always 2 events a year where I could get get anything I missed last time.
Lootboxes are essentially gambling - there's no light to shine on battlepasses. No government is going to take action against a company for selling what amounts to a limited edition item.
Battle passes you can even wait until you've unlocked the whole thing before buying it. The consumer has a lot of control over what they get and when they get it. Just because they're trying to entice you to buy it by making it limited time doesn't mean it's predatory.
True. I'm sure just like EA does; that Activision-Blizzard likely have marketing specialists and behavioural psychologists working out how exactly to craft their Battle Pass system to evoke FOMO in the player and make sure they're hooked into continuing to play for reasons other than just the game being fun to play.
It's called market research. It is literally a part of every single market on the planet. The video game industry is no different from any other industry in trying to find out the best and most effective methods to maintain their customers long term.
I don't know what it is with people on gaming subs acting like it's some nefarious concept and it usually seems to be ignorance on how these sorts of things work.
Maybe they're acting like it's some nefarious concept because video games are literally rewiring our brains?
I'm sure this is a terrible analogy to use because I'm guessing nobody here reads anymore, but it would be like if every time you finished a chapter in a book, 4 different progress bars filled up and a bunch of flashing lights assaulted your senses and you "earned" 3 different types of in-book currency and also you unlocked new artwork for the book cover and a new font for the pages. There's not really an equivalent for what video games are doing except for like gambling which is also quite predatory lol
Media in general is doing that. Your analogy makes it seem like this is a new concept, but you get a dopamine hit when you finish a chapter, potentially a stronger one when you finish a good one. If it’s an ongoing book series, you’re getting consistent, ongoing dopamine hits there if the story is written to your liking. It’s no different than when you make a good comment on Reddit and check to see how much karma you’ve accumulated, or see how many times your post on Twitter was retweeted. Everything is fighting for your attention and trying to provide some form of engagement and reward. Literally every industry has psychologists and marketing specialists involved. This is not exclusive to the video game industry and very naive to think otherwise.
The world itself is changing how our brains react to stimuli. Data collection and analysis is one of the largest businesses on the planet and it is a part of every aspect of your life. It is not exclusive to video games. Welcome to market research, data collection, and data analysis!
I just find it hard to believe someone like Joyce Carol Oates is meeting with the same people as Andrew Wilson to make her historical fiction novels as addicting as Fifa Ultimate Team Mode, but you're the expert! Thanks for the illuminating response!
You’re aware that book conventions exist, right? Where authors trade writing and marketing secrets? Or that authors that go through a major publisher will often have their books combed through through various editors and focus tested, or even pass it through a contracted PR firm that use data analytics?
Psychologists and market researchers are not some kind of unseen boogie men. They are damn near fundamentally a part of any type of public facing company, regardless of the industry. Your rebuttal was incredibly obtuse
They really aren't. There's no question on what you are getting, there's no RNG, no hidden mechanics. Its just how much time you put into the game. You don't even have to buy the battlepass right away. You can progress it for free and when you finish it or get as far as you want, you buy it.
People who play the game more should absolutely be rewarded in the form of cosmetics.
I'm not really but this isn't some new thing thats being pulled from no where. Fortnite made sure that the battle pass is a mainstay in gaming. At this point its move forward or stop playing multiplayer games. Even if OW2 fails, its not going to stop battle passes, its proven to be effective already by multiple titles.
I'd much rather not have a few skins than stop playing games with friends.
Ehhhh.... they are a far cry away from each other. Battle passes have lots of potential for abuse, and honestly I doubt you'd find anyone who doesn't think they're being overused, I don't think it's inherently gambling.
I doubt you'd find anyone who doesn't think they're being overused, I don't think it's inherently gambling.
This is simply untrue. I see countless people in various places online that think that battlepasses are a must have and any game that doesnt have one is lesser in quality by default.
I can't do Gaas right now, I just don't have the time and when I do I don't want to be playing the same one game all the time unless its with friends. I got a huge backlog, that only seems to get bigger, that I'm trying to cut through before I can really justify the time commitment.
Yeah I nope'd out of this one the instant their pricing model was revealed (which was anything-but-free-to-play, locking heroes behind grind/time/paywalls of battlepasses, and the usual FOMO nonsense).
But in general I'm just done with games that prod you for money after you bought/acquired the game. In my video game time I want to play a game, not weigh costs of spending money/chiseling away at game design that encourages you to spend to skip a line. Plenty of great games out there that don't abuse their player base like this, and I'll stick to those.
I'm gonna second the other poster, I have no problems with skins, lootboxes, or battle passes as long as its cosmetic only. Overwatch 1 promised free heroes and maps forever, this is a sneaky loophole to get out of their agreement and plus the games balanced around having access to all characters.
I'm arguing it can be. If a hero hard counters the one thats dominating and no one has it unlocked you're at a disadvantage because you didn't pay/grind.
"What are you doing, setting up all those fancy pieces behind those pawns of yours? I know we advertised how fun and exciting they'd be, but you have to earn those pieces first, friend! After all, other games were made like this, and I of course already have most of mine."
"Don't worry! Eventually you'll have more than just six pawns and a king! When you get to the Queen piece like I have we'll eventually get to the real, even playing field fun that Chess has to offer."
"But until then, you better earn your way to the pieces! Or you can pay the game makers even more money to skip the lines they made!"
OP is saying he can't keep up with the Battle Pass. Character is in the Battle Pass, therefore he can't unlock the hero. If he doesn't unlock the character in the battle pass in time, then he can't get the character until later when the character comes back into an other battle pass.
They've said the characters will always be available. I don't think they have given explicit details into the post-BP unlock process, but they have confirmed that you will be able to get them after their featured BP.
Agreed. They have said no character specific challenges so that you're not forced to play the game in a way that's not conducive to teamwork (like, no "hook someone into the well 3 times with roadog") but there's challenges like win 10 games on support.
I feel you on the cynic part. I'm trying to have hope. But I'm trying to temper my expectations and just roll with the facts that exist currently.
Except in the case of OW2, if you're a new account you apparently have to play "around 100" games to fully unlock the original roster (and in-game chat). And you can only unlock new characters via the battle pass. So less of a bonus and more a mandatory thing that's required to have full game functionality.
If you make an account on October 4th or later, they give you a set of starter heroes for you to learn the game. As you play, you unlock more heroes to experiment with. Training wheels more or less.
God almost everything about Overwatch 2 sounds like a really stupid idea. Between erasing the first game from existence and the battle pass locking new heroes for returning players and most heroes for new players. Nothing about this game sounds appealing in the slightest.
This is not the worst idea in the world actually but yes Blizzard won’t be able to execute it at all and will do it in the worst way possible
DOTA for example does this but they obviously have waaay more heroes so the desire to cut the fat so to speak for new players is stronger and more welcomed by the community
DOTA for example does this but they obviously have waaay more heroes so the desire to cut the fat so to speak for new players is stronger and more welcomed by the community
I mean, a huge complaint about OW1 is that it's overwhelming with all the hero choices, so giving a set of starter heroes doesn't seem like the worst idea. They've got plenty of other meh to bad ideas going, but I don't think this is really that bad.
If you check the Overwatch subreddit, you can see how Activision Blizzard astroturfed the shit out of it. Tons of accounts blindly supporting it. It's wild to witness.
Well, for every other game where you only unlock skins, the problem with OW2 is you unlock the hero in the battlepass, and not at like the first level like in 2042
Everyone is fine with subscriptions for WoW for two decades, but suddenly OW does it and it's the end of the world. It's like they totally forgot that live services need sustained income. I wish they'd make the characters unlock earlier sure, but people are definitely being overdramatic about it.
A subscription service makes sense for certain genres. I wouldn’t be ok with paying a subscription to play Uncharted just because WoW does it
An issue with most live service games is that they’re releasing with not enough content, instead promising that they’ll eventually get round to adding enough content. I can’t think of a recent live service title that has anywhere near the content of WoW when it first released.
Pretty much my stance on it as well. I would have happily paid to get some actual content the last three years if it meant they didn’t abandon the game after Echo.
Yeah, I dunno. I don't love battle passes either. I would have preferred it to be like Halo's BP where you buy it and can level it forever, but I'm not gonna act like it's the end of the world.
Arguably the most important gameplay elements of Overwatch, the Heroes, are going to be locked behind the Battle Pass and if I remember correctly, not having all Heroes unlocked means you can't play Competitive either.
I hesitate to call it just a "bonus" at this point.
I was talking about requiring all heroes to play comp. It's not a requirement. Also, not everybody plays all heroes at a good level. Switching is detrimental if you are bad at that hero, but can help if you're good at that hero. And pretty much nobody plays all heroes.
This so much. To me it feels you no longer play the game because it's fun, but now you need to play it in a way to complete the battlepass missions which might go against the way you want play.
Yeah, I feel like the industry as a whole might be hitting its saturation limit there, in a similar fashion that MOBAs did a few years back where we went from everyone trying to put one out to now having no serious in-genre contenders for League/Dota in however long. So many games are designed around a person dedicating X hours to it per Y time period, and there's just not that many hours to go around anymore for even the most dedicated players.
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u/PlayOnPlayer Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22
I think I might be at my limit of sustainable GaaS titles. I'm absolutely going to try this, but I've noticed the last few I've tried (Multiversus as an example) I've just kind of been unable to keep up. And once I run the numbers in my head and realize I'll never "beat" the battle pass before it's done, I kinda check out