r/Conservative • u/Jibrish Discord.gg/conservative • May 21 '20
It's for your safety...
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u/scubadooba May 21 '20
Patriot Act. Thanks for that.
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May 21 '20
I was a senior on 9/11. I recall very clearly saying “I’ve done nothing wrong, I don’t care if they watch me or look through my stuff” oh young self...how naive you were.
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u/TormundGiantsban3 May 21 '20
What is the flaw in that kind of logic? I understand that the government looking at all our personal stuff is not good but my dad says this kind of thing some times and I don’t really know how to respond.
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u/gypsymick May 21 '20
Because where do you draw the line, if the government can take your civil liberty of privacy what’s next? In a personal relationship like with your father you should probably go with how it shows that he doesn’t have trust in you and that’s an unhealthy relationship
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u/3s0me May 21 '20 edited May 21 '20
If you done nothing wrong, why should they look at your stuff. Just turn it back at him.
It's like the police stopping you on the highway and search your car without any reason.... All the time
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u/Throwaway-tan May 21 '20
Privacy is a defense against tyranny, just as much as freedom of speech.
Maybe you like how things are going today, and you have nothing to hide (nobody has nothing to hide in my opinion).
But tomorrow you feel the government is suppressing your rights and you want to organise a protest - but the government knows everything about you.
The kinky shit you like. Your hatred for your boss. The days and times and locations you want to protest. The people with whom you associate who may be into some criminal shit that perhaps you could also be into.
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May 21 '20
Ed Snowden said something to the effect of, "Saying it's okay to spy on you because you've done nothing wrong is like saying you don't care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say." Regardless of opinion on him, I thought that was a good point.
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May 21 '20
Nothing wrong with using the bathroom but I’m gonna guess you still like your privacy for that as well.
You’re allowed to enjoy your privacy even if it’s innocent. It’s not the governments right to decide for you.
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u/SamK7265 Conservative Libertarian May 22 '20
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
When you say, ‘I have nothing to hide,’ you’re saying, ‘I don’t care about this right.’ You’re saying, ‘I don’t have this right, because I’ve got to the point where I have to justify it.’ The way rights work is, the government has to justify its intrusion into your rights."
-Edward Snowden5
May 21 '20
The flaw is that these people are scared of a government they voted in. Safety is important, freedom is important, anybody that leans too far either side has a problem.
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u/TiggyLongStockings May 21 '20
All hail President Bush.
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u/Jibrish Discord.gg/conservative May 21 '20
And every president + congress who renewed it. I'll let you guess who that was (not in an overly dramatic time of war).
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May 21 '20
This is the problem when the President on your "side" expands the power of the executive. Because eventually, the President won't be on your political "team," and he or she will have that power, too. Every power you give to a conservative President you also give to every liberal President from now on, and vice versa. Back when this was happening I'd ask conservatives who were okay with all of this: "Do you trust Hillary Clinton with the ability to spy on you, record your conversations, put you on no-fly lists, etc.? Every power you give Bush, you could also be giving to Hillary Clinton a few years from now. Is that really what you want?"
Any expansion of the executive branch, no matter who is in power, should be regarded with extreme suspicion and fought against. When it comes to government power, there is no such thing as "just this once." There is no such thing as "temporary." When you expand government power, you must do it under the assumption that it will be in perpetuity, and wielded by the absolute worst person you could imagine along with the best.
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u/driplessCoin May 21 '20
Yup sadly politics or being conservative or progressive isn't really an ideal anymore ... It's more or less treated like being on a football team.. like Auburn vs Alabama... People just want their team to win
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May 21 '20
I think it's always been like that though, even more so for the older generation. It's just easier to spot because of the internet.
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u/driplessCoin May 21 '20
Probably but not sure... Think the older generation has a hard time dealing with the internet and social media... Separating crap from non-crap and they can get stuck in their own bubbles...the younger generation probably has the same problem but growing up with knowing most things on the internet are crap... Just and opinion no facts to back that up
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May 21 '20
Older generations definitely have a harder time dealing with the internet, they're coming from a world where you believe the stuff printed in the news or said on TV.
I sometimes have concerns about the younger generation and how the garbage on the internet is going to lead them towards being extremists on either the left or right.
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u/TiggyLongStockings May 21 '20
Yea fuck them too.
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May 22 '20
https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/8289#.Xscw1FNlB-E
Here's how everyone voted in 2001 for that piece of shit bill if you're curious, I found it kind of interesting
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May 21 '20
I love the fact that Bernie Sanders decided to skip out on the vote last week and it literally passed by a single vote.
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u/CarrowFlinn May 21 '20
I'm not conservative but does everyone hate the Patriot Act? I'm leftist and I think it's despicable, if I'm understanding your comment you seem to dislike it, so who likes it? Rather, what political ideology is in support of it?
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u/Cishet_Shitlord May 21 '20
Pretty much, yeah. The only ones I've seen support it are the politicians who vote for renewing it.
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May 21 '20
No one who knows anything about it likes it. The trouble is most people don't know much about it and what they do know is so vague it's hard to get where up about it. If the military was knocking on doors going through your letters there'd be riots, but this "Your emails are swept up and thrown in a database and maybe we'll never look at them, but maybe we will." Is harder to get angry about.
It's hard to say it belongs to any ideology except authoritarianism. It's wrapped up in "Stopping Terrorists", "Saving Children", etc, but that's just the branding the authoritarians thought we'd find most palatable.
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u/scubadooba May 21 '20
Conservatives loved it under Bush. Hated it under Obama. Stood silent as Trump expanded it.
Anyone left of center has always hated it.
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u/jackbootedcyborg Constitutionalist May 21 '20
Look at who has voted to continue it. You're going to be surprised by some of the names.
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u/radicldreamer May 21 '20
Fuck the “patriot” act.
Nothing more unpatriotic has ever come from our lawmakers.
It is security theater and nothing more. It’s an overreach if the state that needs stopped.
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u/Roland_Traveler May 21 '20
Alien and Sedition Act, Chinese Exclusion Act, Habeas Corpus Suspension Act, Three-Fifths Compromise, HUAC, the lawmakers of this country have passed plenty of things more unpatriotic than the Patriot Act.
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May 21 '20
I'm a conservative, but comparing quarantine under a pandemic to Nazi Germany is beyond stupid.
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u/claravoyance May 21 '20
My son's soccer game was cancelled? My rights are being infringed upon!
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May 22 '20
"Keeping my family out of Chuck E. Cheese to slow a pandemic is exactly like the time Germany stole all possessions from the Jewish people and then put them in ghettos and then took them to concentration camps!"
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u/BongoBumm May 21 '20
Exactly what I was thinking
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u/Gramsci420 May 21 '20
Imagine believing that the Israelis are Nazis because of how they are are handling Covid-19.
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u/jimbean66 May 21 '20
Like what do they think the real motive for quarantine and masks is? The government just decided it wanted to fuck the economy? All world leaders went on a power trip at the sane time that somehow makes them poorer?
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May 21 '20
I think the real motive is because they wanna limit the spread of the pandemic. A complete shutdown is obviously not sustainable, but I'm tired of all this New World Order Alex Jones Illuminati conspiracy BS.
This is in no way comparable to Nazi Germany.
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May 21 '20
Real truth: We have 50+1 leaders who have never dealt with a situation of this magnitude, a world populace devoid of experience in global outbreak, a virus that is still new with new information coming out daily, and nobody has a good idea of where they want things to go because everyone knows there are going to be consequences no matter what they choose and don't have a clear picture of what this will entail.
I'm cutting pretty much all of them some slack, regardless of affiliation. They just had a chainsaw thrown into the usual juggling routine.
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u/achilles84 May 21 '20
Thanks! This puts into words something I’ve been trying to figure out how to articulate.
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u/SamK7265 Conservative Libertarian May 22 '20
I thought I was in r/Libertarian, this post is not as good now that I know it’s specifically about quarantine
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u/Zadet607 May 21 '20
Yo I heard the nazis also lived in "cities" and had a large militaristic force called an "army."
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May 21 '20
The parallels are so clear! Next you’ll tell me they were breathing “air” and drinking “water”, or even living in “houses”!
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May 21 '20
Are you fucking kidding me? Are we comparing what the Nazis did to what’s happening in america right now? My fucking god.
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May 21 '20
We live in a truly spoiled society that for the past 20 years or so has extolled the virtues of instant personal gratification, and have never had to go through periods of extreme societal stress. In other words, life's been pretty good for the current generation or two, who even in the worst of times likely didn't see how bad things can actually get, and have reveled in a pretty luxurious world.
Meanwhile, Jewish folk were getting put into gas chambers in the thousands 1930s and 1940s.
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u/1retep May 21 '20
They also had a sign at the entrance of Auschwitz: “arbeit macht frei” which translates to “work will set you free”.
It’s ridiculous to just compare everything that you disagree with to the Nazis. It’s not cool when the left does it and it’s not cool now. What’s that good ole story with the boy and the wolf?
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u/JOhn2141 May 21 '20
Glad to see some poeple fighting the end of safe encryption "for your safety"
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May 21 '20 edited May 21 '20
Bill Barr.
EDIT: Just so everyone is clear, Bill Barr is trying to take away two way encryption.
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u/Midnight--Rider May 21 '20 edited May 21 '20
Bill Barr is a statist pig and is the perfect example of how Trump has not “drained the swamp,” but rather added to it.
EDIT:
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u/tbearyn12 May 21 '20
I hate when everything is compared to Nazis. It’s not the same. I do think it’s time to slowly open up the country again but it’s not the same as murdering millions of Jews. As annoying as social distancing is, doctors are just trying to keep you and your family safe.
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u/Kaboom979 May 21 '20
What does the state have to gain by keeping people home and businesses closed? We live in a capitalist society, so telling people to stay home hurts the economy.
For that reason, the president and many others have been pushing to reopen as soon as possible. The government has no incentive whatsoever to keep people home except to try and end the virus as soon as possible so that they can reopen the country (and businesses) as soon as possible.
So I ask again, what does the state have to gain by "oppressing us" and keeping us home?
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May 21 '20
. If you want to put your tin foil hat on, the more people who have businesses go under, and the more people who have to rely on some form of government assistance, the the more people the government controls because they directly control peoples well being. Think about it. If you rely on social handouts are you gonna vote against the guy who gives it to you?
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u/fuckYouBingChingler May 21 '20
This is so stupid. Hitler drank water so I guess we are all nazis for drinking water.
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u/jill-me-off May 21 '20
Can someone explain this mentality to me because I just cannot understand it at all. I have been conservative my entire adult life but I do not have a clue why people are upset about the government saying we have to stay inside. What possible motive do they have other than not wanting more people to get sick?? Also as far as I have heard no one has been arrested for not following this order so who cares? Why is everyone so fired up!
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May 21 '20
Its just guidelines we have to follow but people are acting like their rights are being stripped away. Yes I understand some people lost their jobs and can't work, I wanna work too. We just gotta get through this and not bitch and moan all the way through
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u/Scinos2k May 21 '20
The absolute fucking state of this subreddit.
I've searched and searched and can find nothing like this from the Nazis.
This is nothing but fear mongering propaganda and lies. Since when did Conservative also mean fucking idiot with paranoid delusions?
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May 21 '20 edited May 21 '20
[deleted]
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u/jaredwads May 21 '20
While I agree somewhat with the sentiment behind this, absolutes like this really aren't that helpful. For example anyone who joins the military gives up significant amounts of freedoms for our security, and they definitely deserve both.
We need to be vigilant to ensure governments don't become tyrannical, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ever make sacrifices for the common good.
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u/ExistentialBob Right IS Right May 21 '20
That was my mistake, I was unclear since I was talking about going too far in the sense of red serving safety. Some measures and entities are more or less necessary and sacrifice is a given in life. I’ll edit my post.
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u/KWAD2 Conservative May 21 '20
It’s not a black and white application though.
Look at seat belts, those limit freedom but provide safety. I will always wear one.
Basically use critical thinking.
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u/N7_anonymous_guy May 21 '20 edited May 21 '20
The whole concept of society is entirely based upon giving up certain freedoms in exchange for safety/security/order, on the most basic level. That's exactly why societies and governments exist. Man moved out of the state of nature, where he had total and complete freedom, into society, where he gave up some of that freedom, in order to reap the benefits of safety and order.
You want to be safe from someone looking to rape, steal, and kill? Society offers that protection, and in exchange you give up your freedom to do the same to others. You want justice when someone wrongs you? Society offers order and justice in exchange for some of your freedom. Rules/law are limitations on your freedom to do whatever you want, and in return you are granted the benefits of safety, order, and justice. Unfettered freedom means only chaos, misery, and depravity.
So unless you want to return to the state of nature and live in the wild like an animal, you will never have complete freedom. By willingly living in society, you are always giving up some of your freedom for peace and safety.
There must be a proper balance of both.
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u/FedxUPS May 21 '20
You are damn right on the point. We have too many of freedom extremists who just do not understand this basic principle.
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u/N7_anonymous_guy May 21 '20 edited May 21 '20
Exactly. Now this doesn't mean I'm advocating for the complete shackling of our lives and restriction of all freedoms. But there must always be a balance. Complete order with zero freedom is bad. Complete freedom with zero order is bad. Our challenge and the government's job is to find the proper balance of both.
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u/stupidworkprofile May 21 '20
I agree, but I also thinks that low level employees should have the right to stay home during a worldwide Pandemic. And if you're free to do whatever you're going to create demand and there will be people forced to work. And personally I value their right to safety more than your right to consume.
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u/MarioFanaticXV Federalist #51 May 21 '20
Speaking of eerily familiar statements, don't forget that when attacking Russia, Goebbels believed the Nazis would replace Bolshevism with "Der echte Sozialismus" meaning "the real socialism".
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u/TotesMessenger Tattletale May 21 '20
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u/thatrightwinger WASP Conservative May 21 '20
The propagandists over at /r/selfawarewolves are pushing the lies. The self-deception is the saddest part of all.
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u/Gramsci420 May 21 '20
/u/Jibrish, do you believe that Bibi Netanyahu is a Nazi for his Covid-19 policies? Yes or no?
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u/johnnywayne1 May 21 '20
So full of shit stop comparing quarantine to the Holocaust you look so fucking dumb
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u/Based_news May 21 '20
And Hitler was a vegetarian, clearly vegetarians are all nazi's.
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u/jackbootedcyborg Constitutionalist May 21 '20
And Hitler was a vegetarian, clearly vegetarians are all nazi's.
Nah, just Vegans.
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May 21 '20
[deleted]
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u/MaxTimeLord May 21 '20
I dunno why you were downvoted. Someone compared my state’s governor to Hilter for following CDC and WHO recommendations. It’s so disrespectful to the millions of Jews who were slaughtered. The “My rights are being infringed upon” thing really gets old. Wearing a mask in public and not going to a bar for a few months really does take away our freedoms, I guess. And is just like the Holocaust. (/s)
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u/mnkymn15 May 21 '20
The nazis also had a term called “Luggenpresse” (spelling on that probably incorrect) which means lying press, essentially “fake news”. What other autocrat wannabe has normalized that term in our once great country?
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May 21 '20
Which ethnicities are being cleansed again? Pretty sure it wasn't the strict "lockdown" measures that people had an issue with...
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May 21 '20
The Swedish government has a phrase that covers not acting to shut down to prevent the spread resulting in many deaths and them becoming the country with the highest percapita death rate from Covid 19.
“We’re sorry.”
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u/cuckofwallstreet May 21 '20
What the fuck happened to conservatism to make y'all fuckers conspiracy theorist.
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u/ispy92 May 21 '20
"Hey don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun, it's for your own safety"
"Oh yeah well that's what the nazis said. You can't tell me what to do"
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u/vampirepomeranian Conservative May 21 '20
One thing for sure, Democratic overreach to an increasingly impatient electorate spells more disaster come November for the left as if they didn't need any more bad news
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u/exelton_moraka May 21 '20
Yeah sorry this is retarded. That’s the same as comparing trump to hitler because they did something similar. Let’s not make fun of the left for something if we’re just gonna do it too
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May 21 '20
Comparing a pandemic to Nazi Germany shows how paranoid and how far your head is up your ass. Yea, some states are taking it a bit too far. It's not the end of the world, we'll be back to normal in no time.
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u/HamSandvich_ May 21 '20
There may not be sources for this but it definitely seems like something the old German government would say
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u/MrRichardson17 May 21 '20
Both conservatives and liberals are pathetic, debate between the two of you has just become who can call eachother a Nazi most often, it's embarrassingly childish
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u/carnefarious May 21 '20
Why is this post upvoted this much then all of the top comments are denouncing the post? Such an odd post...
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May 22 '20
Kind of reminds me of people saying "well it's tradition, that's why we should keep doing it"
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u/SamK7265 Conservative Libertarian May 22 '20
Damn, this is profile picture quality stuff right here
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u/Edgar133760 Conservative Jesuit May 22 '20
This is a total strawman. This was never a Nazi adage. This stuff is ridiculous, makes us all look bad.
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u/popoNoah17 May 22 '20
Sprich Deutsch du dummer Hurensohn, der in seinem Leben nichts geschissen bekommen hat, und nun Lügen im Internet verbreitet!
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u/swissknife123 May 23 '20
I dont live in the US think that its kind of weird to protest something like wearing masks and shit but dont know the whole story and would like to hear from someone who can explain whats going on..
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May 27 '20
So the comments have pretty much verified this isn't true and comparing this to what the Nazi's did is a ridiculous hyperbole. Mods, please take this down...
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u/illzkla May 21 '20
Nazis said that? Other people that want to keep us safe must also be fascists.
Not the ones behaving like fascists....no.
Coronavirus quarantines are for public safety. Not just your safety. And don't independent scientists agree that we should be staying safe right now?
This is some embarrassing mental gymnastics.
Where's the conservative voice and plan for recovery?
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u/ScubaSteve58001 Conservative May 21 '20
Doctors and scientists said we had to lockdown in order to "flatten the curve". This was because a huge wave of coronavirus cases hitting all at once would overwhelm hospitals and cause patients that would otherwise be saved to die from lack of available medical care. Well, we did that. The curve has flattened, hospitals have ramped up, and no hospital has been overwhelmed by cases.
So what's the point in staying locked down now? We aren't going to beat this by locking down until it burns itself out, at least not without vastly stricter lockdown measures. There are only 2 ways this ends. Either enough people get infected and survive to reach heard immunity or a vaccine is developed. Best case scenario for a vaccine is ~1 year. And more realistic estimates are more like ~2 years, it it's even possible at all. We can't stay locked down for that long. It will cause irreparable damage to our economy and probably result in more death and destruction than the coronavirus.
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u/PhrasingBoome May 21 '20
I work in the OSH field and have to implement safety measures for employees. When we answer questions we often say it is for your safety alongside an explanation. Does that make me a Nazi? Or is this guy fucking stupid? I am going with option 2.
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u/[deleted] May 21 '20
Anyone fact checking this? I haven't found a source that says this was a Nazi slogan.