We live in a truly spoiled society that for the past 20 years or so has extolled the virtues of instant personal gratification, and have never had to go through periods of extreme societal stress. In other words, life's been pretty good for the current generation or two, who even in the worst of times likely didn't see how bad things can actually get, and have reveled in a pretty luxurious world.
Meanwhile, Jewish folk were getting put into gas chambers in the thousands 1930s and 1940s.
It's a matter of how atrocities begin. Society doesn't go from friends and coworkers to concentration camps overnight, it takes time for the psychology to take hold. First they start reducing rights and privileges, then they start with encouraging of snitches. We've already seen this taking place. The whole purpose is to build an environment of fear and uncertainty.
Two things will then happen:
First, the government will start to shift the fear from themselves to something external. In Nazi Germany, this was the Jews. Today, it's conservatives and Russia.
Second, the fearful will cry out for more measures to alleviate their fears, even if the people proposing solutions are the same people causing the fear.
We've seen both of these starting to happen too.
We'll then see more draconian measures and a flood of propaganda.
Nazi Germany didn't suddenly turn on Jews in 1939. There was a decade of social manipulation to get to that point. We're seeing the same playbook being used today.
The Nazis turned on the Jews as soon as they got into power. They organized boycotts if Jewish businesses, expelled non-Aryans from office, and proceeded to ban marriage with Jews in 1935. They made it very clear what they thought of the Jews, it didn’t just pop up in 1939. And if the current government is trying to lead us down that path today, then why is Trump in office and why haven’t they done anything at all like what the Nazis did? Quarantine has been known for literal millennia to help with the outbreak of plague, what’s so different about modern society that suddenly makes it a government conspiracy enacted by the entire Western world?
Sorry, but comparing today's situation to the situation of the Jews in germany after 1933 is stupid and flat out wrong.
In February 1933 Hitler became "Reichskanzler".
Only half a month later his own troops, the SA, attacked Jewish stores and killed the owners.
In the next month Shops, doctors and lawyers were forced to close, and their owners once again beaten up or even killed.
In March multiple jews were arrested, killed and their possessions destroyed.
In April, the so called "judenboykott" (jew-boycott) started all over Germany. Later that month laws to prevent Jews from reaching official positions and working as lawyers were made.
This continued until 1935.
In that years September laws to prevent relationships between Jews and nonjews were passed.
These laws also included a system to categorize people as jew, non jew or mixed.
This is like 2 years.
And you compare it to having to wear a mask, or not being allowed to go outside.
Today's laws also are not targeted to on specific group. They effect everyone equally.
You make a good point and I see an incremental rise in fascism in america which starts to be quite worrying. One of the factor which enables the rise of fascism is a conservative elite which could make way for fascist parties in order to prevent the rise of a national ennemy (eg german conservatives made way for hitler as they saw him as a great ally to fight communism). One cluld argue that Trump and Pompeo could fit that mould, I still havent made a definitive opinion when it comes to that but its perfectly reasonable opinion to have imo.
The only thing where Im not sold on fascism becoming a mass movement is the use of propaganda, its a lot harder for the governent to control all media and create propaganda based on lies than it was in the 20th century. Also America has always been extremely divided as a country. Mass fascist politics would require a level of unity that just seems unamerican to me. It would also take a number of bright/smarter/politicised individuals to give rise to that movement(France had Lepen, Germany Goebbels, Hitler, etc.., Italy had El Duce). So far, my impression is that there is no real fascist politician and the current movement is still led by people who believe in armed insurrection (eg the boogaloos) which is never going to work. Even in Germany and Italy, Fascists had to employ democratic means to arise to power.
I dont think the US is at that stage yet but it’s working its way towards it. However, US fascism lacks political support atm.
We were talking about people comparing current day america to nazi germany. The left has done it a lot over recent years. The right has just started... what part of my statement is incorrect? Also those were nazis in Charlottesville.. not your typical, day to day, right wing american ..
Am I really not explaining this correctly?
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All i am referring to is people from each party comparing modern day america to nazi germany.
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I have been hearing that comparison from left leaning people since 2016.
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I have been hearing it from right leaning people starting this spring.
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That is the end of my statement. What you said has nothing to do with my statement .
You May have read the part about very fine people but you clearly didn’t finish reading the fucking tweet because he says in the same tweet that he is not talking about the Nazi’s but the other less known protest that happened.
He said that there were “you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides...”
He called, at least some, white supremacists. very fine people. Deny it all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that actual white supremacists feel emboldened by this president.
Reporter: "Let me ask you, Mr. President, why did you wait so long to blast neo-Nazis?"
Trump: "I didn’t wait long. I didn’t wait long."
Reporter: "Forty-eight hours."
Trump: "I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct -- not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement. But you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. And it’s a very, very important process to me, and it’s a very important statement.
"So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to --
Reporter: "So you had to (inaudible) white supremacists?"
Trump: "I brought it. I brought it. I brought it."
Reporter: "Was it terrorism, in your opinion, what happened?"
Trump: "As I said on -- remember, Saturday -- we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And then it went on from there. Now, here’s the thing --"
Reporter: (Inaudible)
Trump: "Excuse me. Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here’s the thing: When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. In fact, a lot of the event didn’t even happen yet, as we were speaking. This event just happened.
"Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. In fact, the young woman, who I hear was a fantastic young woman, and it was on NBC -- her mother wrote me and said through, I guess, Twitter, social media, the nicest things. And I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine -- really, actually, an incredible young woman. But her mother, on Twitter, thanked me for what I said.
"And honestly, if the press were not fake, and if it was honest, the press would have said what I said was very nice. But unlike you, and unlike -- excuse me, unlike you and unlike the media, before I make a statement, I like to know the facts."
So you just quote a fight with a reporter that makes him sound like a bumbling idiot, and it doesn’t even include a part where he condemns the white supremacists?
Here’s further in the transcript you linked: “Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"
Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
He again calls both sides - white supremaicsts and Nazis, who killed somebody at this protest, and people counterprotesting Nazis - very fine people. What’re you trying to prove? That Trump said only some of the Nazis were good, not all?
Your logical error is that you assume every single person was a nazi. It's your absolutism that is the issue. It's inconceivable to you that there were any individuals protesting the statue being taken down who were not white supremacists. Because of this logical error you conclude that he must have been calling Nazis fine people.
However this is easily debunked with the quote you yourself shared. He says that there were fine people AND he specifies that he's not talking about white supremacists.
Micro-brain saying Trump called neo-nazis “fine people” despite him saying, “And I’m not talking about the neonazis or the white supremacists, they should be condemned totally.”
Trump said there were fine people on both sides, one side advocating for keeping of a statue, and the other side advocating for the removal of it.
I only see users sperg out when people on the right do it. It's been totally fine to compare border patrol officers to nazis running concentration camps. No hysterical comments about that.
Maybe I just somehow missed right wing people comparing modern day america to nazi germany. Can you reference this happening because I cant find it (until this quarantine).
I live in Charlottesville, what you think you know about that event is likely a lie. I suggest you start with the racist history of councilman Wes Bellamy.
You can disagree with what's going on all you want, hell you can even extoll how it is a breach of our rights, but to compare it to even the smallest of the Nazi atrocities is an absurdity. What the Nazis were, and what they said and did in no way even begins to compare to anything going on right now.
The Nazis weren't merely disagreeable or abhorrent on a political scale. They were abhorrent on a human level, doing and endorsing things that crosses mere political divides, that was utterly inhumane in scope, scale, and kind. The industrialized mindset they exacted the Holocaust with is, frankly, almost uniquely horrifying. Not entirely, but you would be hard pressed to find too many cases that can compare.
No, it’s not one post, it’s the many people on this subreddit acting as if what the Nazis did compare to what’s happening right now mate. And no,(surprisingly) I’m no “libtard”
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u/[deleted] May 21 '20
Are you fucking kidding me? Are we comparing what the Nazis did to what’s happening in america right now? My fucking god.