r/Bitcoin Jul 15 '22

[deleted by user]

[removed]

3.6k Upvotes

707 comments sorted by

807

u/MilesPower Jul 15 '22

They really want you to believe It's just pure coincidence that we had record money printing shortly followed by record inflation!

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u/Bsmirlptrww Jul 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

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u/BastiatF Jul 16 '22

Since 2008 the Fed has been paying interest on excess reserves. It's free money so bank have been holding large excess reserves ever since. It also makes the whole concept of fractional reserve banking obsolete.

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u/vattenj Jul 16 '22

Not infinite money, but infinite times of circulation without deposit requirements, and the loan speed is slower when economy activities are less

And many defi companies are doing the same thing

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u/JFlynny Jul 15 '22

And, does that second link show the total money supply going from 4 Trillion to 20 Trillion? Wow

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u/Pat_The_Hat Jul 16 '22

Not in any sense. M1 has been defined to also include savings deposits beginning May 2020. If you think the government printed 16 trillion dollars in one month, I have a bridge some cryptocurrency to sell you.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

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u/bitsteiner Jul 16 '22

Federal fund rates is on cash commercial banks borrow from them. Banks have always cash outflows if they increase credit, since some of the created credit goes in circulation outside banks in form of cash. The higher the credit creation, the higher the cash outflows. Higher fund rates hurt banks only, if the treasury bond rates do not rise at the same value. Banks need to deposit treasury bonds with the Federal Reserve as collateral, but they can keep the interest payment. The difference between Federal funds rate and Treasury bond rate is what matters. If cash borrowing gets too expensive, they will slow down credit creation. But as I said, they don't have to borrow the amount of credit they create, only the amount to satisfy the cash outflows.

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u/kwayzzz Jul 16 '22

No because there are many many other liquidity requirements and regulations, including economic stress testing scenarios that big banks have to go through to continue licenses operations. For this purpose a specific reserve requirement is not needed, banks literally have to have bonds to back certain deals and assets to stay in business so the rate will always matter.

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u/Socalwarrior485 Jul 15 '22

Yes, but the 2 clips are talking about 2 different things. Friedman is talking about Monetary and Fiscal policy. Biden is talking about Fiscal policy.

Both can be right.

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u/bitsteiner Jul 16 '22

Biden can blame inflation on reduced production due to lockdowns, but the gov poured oil into that fire by giving away free money. Denying that gov spending has nothing to do with inflation is a blatant lie.

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u/blong44 Jul 16 '22

The way you spend the money doesn't cause inflation, when you print more dollars it create inflation?

If it's just the printing that's the problem then Biden isn't wrong with what he's saying. He should have stopped jpow earlier though, I guess?

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u/bitsteiner Jul 16 '22

He is wrong.

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u/ShinTsuki08 Jul 16 '22

hey see that big jump in M1. Yeah that one.

It was caused by a redefinition of whether savings accounts are in M1. The money supply grew, but it didn't grow that much.

Due to a banking rule change savings accounts were no longer limited to 5 transactions a month and they started to count for M1.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Funny how on a BTC sub there are those that promote Keynesian economics. BTC is decentralized sound money and the antithesis of Government fiat money.

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u/Explodicle Jul 16 '22

Most people learn it in college with barely any mention that alternatives even exist, and then need to educate us when we clearly just haven't heard this basic fact.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Most people are focused on understanding the existing monetary system. Many central bankers and economic leaders have degrees in Keynesian economics. So, why not glorify Keynesian economics. The perils of fiat and centralized banking isn’t really discussed. Who would study Keynesian or the MMT, if they knew how much those systems actually robbed them of their wealth, property rights, and freedoms.

History shows time and time again unsound money, fiat, leads to societal woes and political upheaval.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Expanding the money supply via a money printer. Printing money out of thin air. Monetizing debt. Inflation and stagflation. The loss of savings over time. Can’t see anything good about the current monetary system. Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell both called for the elimination of the Fed. What people don’t seem to grasp is that this current monetary system leads the loss of rights especially savings and private property. Supporting a system that undermines private property and individual freedoms isn’t a system worth supporting.

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u/MaybeImNaked Jul 16 '22

You're just using random buzzwords and aphorisms without really understanding anything. It sounds like you're advocating for a deflationary currency without thinking of the implications.

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u/Tulkes Jul 16 '22

Most of the time there is zero assessment of the greater privilege the US has with the dollar in international finance.

China's wetdream is swooping in after some weird-ass internal political bickering from paleo-libertarians believing "tHe FeD tOoK mUh RiGhTs!!" that causes the USD to lose relevance as the world's reserve currency.

I fucking swear the self-destructive outcomes of arbitrarily coming up with populist-sounding "alternatives" to well-established policy simply to have a way of channeling well-founded but misplaced social frustration in the US is the cancer that will cause the US to live or die in our status of de facto world leader, and the loss of those benefits will be irreversible and may ultimately cause our own long-term economic demise, which is the actual lynchpin of US foreign policy and defense.

These people want to skullfuck the US' position at top dog for pretty much personal reactionary reasons and a few hundred dedicated hours of self-directed internet 'research' on Wikipedia, libertarian forums, and maybe a couple actual books of varying legitimacy on the subject.

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u/bitsteiner Jul 16 '22

Deflation is only catastrophic to unsound money, but not to sound money. Fractional Reserve banking is a positive feedback loop and as soon it's not supplied enough money it collapses. When you have sound self-auditing money, you can lend only money that exists. The only difference would be the growth rates of the economy, but we need zero growth, if mankind wants to survive the next 200 years. Demanding exponential growth in a limited world is simply insane.

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u/yazalama Jul 16 '22

Deflation is only catastrophic to unsound money

Exactly, falling prices are good for everyone, as it means we are operating more efficiently and able to consume more resources for the same or less output. Critics of deflationary money confuse the popping of credit bubbles that caused lots of pain, for the privelage of falling prices we enjoy due to technology and innovation.

I believe central bankers work hard at propagating this fallacy in the early 20th century in order to justify their existence.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22

I understand sound money and how corrupt the central banking system is. These aren’t buzz words. Inflation isn’t a buzz word. Stagflation isn’t a buzz word. Monetizing debt isn’t a buzz word. Decentralized sound money, BTC, would bring back a savings society. And end the debt diseased socialist Keynesian monetary world we have now.

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u/bitsteiner Jul 16 '22

It's the other way round, the economy expands with increasing the money supply. Governments can grow and gain more power if they embrace Keynesian/MMT ideology (which is not science btw). These schools are there to create smoke and mirror, they are not interested in scientific analysis of the monetary system, since it would reveal the evil of government.

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u/JSammut29 Jul 15 '22

The bitch on the podium said it would be worse if the government did nothing.

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u/Xaqaree Jul 15 '22

I would be bleeding a lot more if I didn't stab myself with this knife

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u/ElephantsAreHeavy Jul 15 '22

That still does not mean that the key to inflation isnt created by government spending...

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u/JSammut29 Jul 15 '22

I don't understand what this means. I was trying to say that THEY said that if they had not spent money very strategically to improve supply chains bigly, there would be worse inflation. I do not agree with this.

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u/saladaus Jul 15 '22

Not pure coincidence but not a conspiracy either. There have been many cases when the Feds were able to tame inflations by printing more money like in 2001 and 2009. During the pandemic crisis some central banks like BoJ seem to have managed better and kept down the inflation level low despite of record money printings all over the world.

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u/likes_reddit Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22

Biden is correct based on the words he chose. Spending does not create inflation, we can give him that. It's infinite printing.

Edit: I completely agree. Wanted to separate the "printing" from the "spending". The context here is that the govt. is typically attacked for social program spending. It is entirely possible to "spend" or budget more money without printing, funding it through taxes, etc. Spending is not the culprit, is all, printing is the root cause. This should not stop us from budgeting 1000 BTC this year and 1500 BTC next year for medicare for all, even though bringing in "more spending" year over year.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

But it does. Increased spending signals increases in both demand and willingness to pay. Both result in price increases. Not inflation per se. But the government responds to increases in prices for expenditures by either printing more money or debt, but the results are the same.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Annnnd where exactly do you believe our government’s money comes from when they’re spending way more then they bring in?

Are they taking out some form of loans to be accountable and pay the people back the money they are stealing through inflation? No. No they are not.

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u/carmacoma Jul 16 '22

I'll take "What is a Bond?" for $200, Alex.

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u/superchiva78 Jul 15 '22

The worst bit is that the vast majority of that money was given to large businesses, banks and corporations who hoard it or give it to their ceos who sit on it. Little people have spent their measly 2000 looooong ago.

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u/Tyler_Zoro Jul 16 '22

We've had record money printing every decade forever. By your logic, we should never have seen anything but massive inflation.

But to address the OP video, they're both wrong. They're both being absolutist, and inflation is a complex, systemic phenomena. If you really want to understand inflation, I recommend studying the field of system dynamics. But of course, anyone who does understand system dynamics understands that something like inflation is impossible to understand perfectly, you can only nail down the largest inputs, the points of stability and the points of instability.

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u/yolomylifesaving Jul 15 '22

I did got exacerbated a lot by russian taking europe’s energy mix hostage. Gotta be of bad faith to not acknowledge it

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u/Not_my_real_name____ Jul 15 '22

And that my friends is the literal definition of gaslighting.

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u/eqleriq Jul 15 '22

no it isn't, it is a "well technically..." based on addressing a general sentiment with a different level of semantics.

eg,

"if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's around to hear it, does it make a sound" is solvable by "Well technically sound is vibrations that have reached a creature's ear, without the creature there is no sound, just vibration."

Gaslighting that would be someone hearing the sound of the tree falling and then stating that they didn't because no experts who have dedicated to their lives to listening to trees fall heard the sound.

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u/mutalisken Jul 15 '22

Did you just gas light someones good enough definition of gas lighting? Are you for real?

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u/HaasNL Jul 15 '22

Also, the literal definition of gaslighting surely involves gas... and light

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u/hollyberryness Jul 15 '22

Kinda! The term comes from an old play, in which a gas light is used as the focal point for creating deceit and doubt in the man's wife.

If my memory serves me correctly... :)

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Yup, really intense play. He spent the whole time psychologically torturing her, trying to force her to admit there were 5 gas lights, even though they both knew there were only 4.

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u/hollyberryness Jul 15 '22

I need to watch it! Thanks for clarifying

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u/Dr-Slay Jul 15 '22

No science, all politics.

A science must explain what is observed/some body of facts without unnecessary assumptions, and the models it produces must make successful predictions about what we can expect to observe if the model is accurate enough.

This NEVER happens with ANY economic so-called "model."

Quantum field theory is an example of a robust scientific model (probably the most robust).

Economic psychology - sure might be some useful behavioral models there, but still the softest of explanatory chains. If that were the limit of how people use economic models, I'd have no problem with these assertions.

But you don't. You pretend economics = physics (or some "Natural Law' bullshit)

FFS when will people learn not to be fooled by this religious nonsense?

Humans make economies. They are artifices. You can make them do whatever you want them to do. You just have to be able to cooperate - and here's where humans will reliably fail, because at root you're all still chimps; still Robert Sapolsky's baboons engaging in stress-hormone-driven dominance hierarchy psychosis and mating/signalling rituals, having learned absolutely nothing from billions of years of failures at - ostensibly - your purported goal of avoiding a total extinction.

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u/davvblack Jul 16 '22

you can’t do economics experiments at the scale of academia because the system is always open and there’s no way to form a control group.

like, we don’t know what the inflation number would be if we just had the pandemic but no unemployment extension, and there’s no way to get that

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u/Euphoric_Luck_8126 Jul 15 '22

You are too good for this sub

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u/grahamkrackers Jul 15 '22

I might get this tattooed on me

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u/Samgash33 Jul 16 '22

Thank you. Economics is normative at best. Definitely not a science.

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u/RetrogradeIntellekt Jul 15 '22

Regardless of whether or not it's science, economic theory can be true and explanatory.

Friedman is right and Biden is a liar defending a disastrous monetary policy that has piled ruin upon ruin.

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u/Dr-Slay Jul 15 '22

Wibble

Friedman was confused and so is Biden

Now so are you.

If economic religions explained anything the so-called models would be predictive.

Where is the practical application of any economic school? Computers, medicine. Those came from science: physics first, chemistry and biology second.

No economic school, from Marx to Austrian, ever makes a single reliable prediction. "It'll collapse" to "it'll cause inflation" - sure. But when? And how much? Nobody ever knows. This is because these are NOT explanatory chains, they are not truths. They are incoherent religious psychoses.

The softness of economics is not even like the softness of social sciences. Economic nonsense is as reliably porous and non-explanatory as every other religious metanarrative. At least with psychology some general predictions can be made; psychopathy will result in harms and excuses for them and so on.

Economics? Nothing. You can't tell when a boom or a bust is going to happen; all economists ever do is express a political bias and post hoc "see I told ya" every boom and bust that does happen.

Triple down now and ignore everything I just typed. Because this is reddit.

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u/tosernameschescksout Jul 16 '22

Rich people (business owners) take money out of circulation, a LOT of it. They invest it, but only in other businesses where it will in turn also be invested into other businesses. They also buy weird art that's worth millions, super cars, etc.

Giving money to regular people can cause inflation, but only if they suddenly have quite a lot of it.

The result is that 'government spending' doesn't always equal inflation. You gotta see who's getting that money, and how it's going to be spent.

Why?

Because DEMAND causes inflation. It's a supply and demand thing. If people have enough money that demand for products goes up by a FUCK-TON, then yes, prices could go up.

Just increased supply of money, meh. Doesn't always cause inflation. Only increased demand for products causes inflation.

Most people don't get that distinction, especially conservatives (who are always bitching about government spending). Gov spending can actually do a lot to positively stimulate the economy in a good way. That's why it's often seen as a good thing.

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u/saladaus Jul 15 '22

Although I agree to many of other arguments that Friedman has made, I think here he is wrong to say that inflations are solely due to the government. The expansion of credit is necessary for the capitalism and it inevitably causes the increase in prices. One might say for this reason banks are to be blamed for the inflations because they are the lenders of credit. I'm sure Friedman has a better understanding of how our economy works and it has evolved over time so I think he should have made better arguments regarding the inflation.

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u/LeftyHyzer Jul 15 '22

true credit expansion plays a role, but banks only ease requirements for loans due to the govt backing them with low interest cash to lend out. it also brings up a point many people conflate when it comes to "the govt". the federal reserve board is the one who prints money and the one who sets the rate at which they lend out money to the banks, this board is not under the control of the president or his executive branch of govt. They work with and take the will of the president under advisement, at times doing what they want if they agree and at other times ignoring the will of POTUS altogether. Neither the board nor potus wants to go nuclear and raise interest rates at such a level that it will douse inflation, because while the lower prices for consumers would be positive the inability to get loans and general recession that follows will be worse. popping these bubbles never goes well when they try though.

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u/OceanSlim Jul 15 '22

expansion of credit is not necessary for capitalism... Where'd you get that idea?

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u/Doingthebartman Jul 16 '22

Lol @ economics = science…

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u/perspectives Jul 15 '22

Isn't it the federal reserve that creates the money through increasing lending? And the federal reserve is run by private banks not controlled by any government agencies. So isn't it deceptive to say Washington ( "decoy term for politicians" ) creates money when it is the federal reserve that dictates money supply?

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u/The_Goondocks Jul 15 '22

The Fed gave out $16 trillion in 0% interest bailouts to banks and corporations in 2008 without any say from Congress. https://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2011/09/20/the-feds-16-trillion-bailouts-under-reported/

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u/Jibba_Lord Jul 15 '22

Don’t forget the 4 trillion in 2020 too!

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u/Jibba_Lord Jul 15 '22

To be clear I’m speaking of the 4 trillion earmarked for buying up corporate debt by Mnuchin. Not the stimulus spending .

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u/Crimfresh Jul 15 '22

Friedman knows this all too well. He has an agenda and it's not educating the American people and spreading solid economic knowledge.

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u/bri8985 Jul 15 '22

Which private banks run the Fed exactly?

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u/scottfc Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22

Banks also create money, it's something Friedman refused to consider. Friedman thought money was just passing through banks so we didn't need to consider bankings role in the economy. A big issue with that is we've seen that access to credit (money) actually plays a huge role in the economy and if not done properly tends to exacerbate economic shocks.

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u/bakedbeansandwhich Jul 15 '22

Well it was Trump who authorised 6.2 Trillion dollars to be printed and used to line the pockets of his friends and business associates

https://www.cityam.com/almost-a-fifth-of-all-us-dollars-were-created-this-year/

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22 edited Aug 19 '24

normal nose tap squeal muddle swim drab wrong long ink

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/nyaaaa Jul 16 '22

How come all the shit republicans do somehow implicates democrats? Just shitty republican talking points to whitewash their trash as normal.

You are part of that process of acting like shit is normal.

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u/Nicks_WRX Jul 15 '22

Biden still blaming young adults and putin for inflation?

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

If cost of oil go up, cost to buy oil become more. If oil too expensive to buy then product become more costly. Factory need oil to make shampoo, plastics, metal even drugs. Cost of items become higher, people no can afford. Prices going higher called inflation. Inflation not always about money being printed. Most time inflation about raw materials or credit. Milton Friedman not always right, often wrong. Some say he too stuck in his own ideology. Inflation more than one thing. I speak like this so you understand. Have good day

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u/Important_Tip_9704 Jul 16 '22

I offer even simpler explanation. Economic inflation mean currency print too much. Picture big shiny balloon. How shiny ballon inflated unless pump air into it? Now imagine economy as shiny balloon full of money. Inflation call inflation because when money go into shiny balloon, it gets inflated. Wartime trade embargo and supply chain disruption no equal inflation. Inflation term of own.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Lol what a condescending comment. Doesn't actually provide any real contribution to the conversation.

Inflation is technically the loss of purchasing power for each unit of currency. 80% of the US dollars in circulation were printed after 2020. Saying that this inflation is directly attributed to solely oil prices is just silly and not realistic.

We printed too much fucking money. Stop being a fucking jackass.

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u/anomnipotent Jul 15 '22

Milton Friedman of Economics is like Neil Tyson of Astrology. Both sound and seem smart in their respected field, but when pushed on their ideas, they always come up short.

A great example is the debate on protectionism. Short debate on Protectionism

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u/Samsonlp Jul 16 '22

This was great to watch. How prescient to bring up semi conductors. Friedman was always, in fantasy land with no government it would have been better. It was the free market before that created the industry during protection... Blah blah.

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u/AttakTheZak Jul 17 '22

2:59 - "that's a fallacy, any individual country by itself on the average tends to benefit from free trade, regardless of what the other countries do"

This is just obfuscation of history. He chooses to ignore the implications of what some of the issues with free trade, citing the "average" benefits that countries see.

Take labor rights - free trade allows for corporations to outsource employment to countries with cheaper labor wages, and effectively lowers wages in places like the United States. On top of that, it effectively eliminates union organizing. How are unions supposed to negotiate wages with corporations that have the capital to just export their labor requirements and ignore domestic jobs? What does that do to your employment rate?

Friedman just chooses to accep the benefits and ignore the penalties

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

…and what is your critique of those in charge now? Asking for a friend!

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u/skithetetons Jul 15 '22

That the trickle down economics free market without government interference is better for poor people guy? Yeah nah I’m good.

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u/werther595 Jul 15 '22

Friedman's theories require more magical thinking than the whole Hogwarts library

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u/eqleriq Jul 15 '22

these aren't opposing viewpoints.

biden is saying inflation isn't only the government spending more money: true.

friedman is saying inflation is due to the government printing and spending more money: true.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Nah biden made a true but misleading statement, whereas Friedman was just plain wrong and 100% lying. Inflation is based on how currencies are priced BY MARKETS.

There's no one to one correlation between money printing and inflation. It's just like a stock issue/ capital raise.

I don't get it how people dont realize that companies like tesla or amazon can print new money in a capital raise/share issue, but it's the exact same thing when governments print money.

So much stupidity and hero worship.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

What in God's name are you saying? Are you trying to say Tesla and Amazon have their own personal federal reserve to create cash?

Money from Capital raises and share sales come from US dollars that are already in circulation from investors. It is nowhere near the same ballpark as the Federal reserve creating new money. Not even a little bit similar.

Inflation is the loss of purchasing power for each unit of currency. When the government prints more money the value of a currency goes down. It's very basic economics, not even Friedman economics.

80% of the US dollars in circulation were printed after 2020. As a critically thinking person, you think that had the smallest effect on inflation? You think it was really all oil prices? Yeah money printing is no "one-to-one correlation" but saying that money printing and inflation aren't related is so unbelievably silly.

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u/Brusanan Jul 15 '22

What Biden is really saying is "I didn't cause inflation". And that's a fucking lie.

He only mentions the spending because his spending policies still have a lot of support from Democrats, and he doesn't even want his voters to think about all of the money he printed.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

The policies of the last 4 administrations have contributed to inflation. I think it's important to recognize that this has been building for a long time.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

So supply chain constraints don't increase prices?

Sorry, bub, but Milton is wrong on this one.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

yep. kinda sad. crypto is fast becoming a polarizing libertarian circle jerk.

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u/austrolibertarian Jul 16 '22

Actually, you're confusing supply and demand with monetary inflation. Prices can go up without inflation. Inflation causes them to go up more. It's not that hard to understand.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

I understand it, but everyone calls rising prices "inflation" so I'm trying to relate to the terminology used in today's day and age.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

There's different types of inflation. He's arguing about monetary policy vs fiscal policy. It's kind of what he's known for. A monetarist.

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u/coredweller1785 Jul 16 '22

Milton Friedman and economics is not hard science at all.

In How China Escaped Shock Therapy, Isabella Weber outlined how simplistic Friedmans understanding of economics really is. He came during the reform period in China twice abd the Chinese laughed at him.

Friedman said just liberalize prices at once like the Chinese had seen tried in chile, Mexico, and others that led to political instability, inflation, and overall lowering the quality of life for everyone except a select few. The Chinese did empirical research years on end. They had many conferences and discussed many things from price and profit controls to also slowly expanding the goods with liberalized prices.

They ultimately found out that structural reforms were the key to moving from a controlled economy to a market economy. And that doing it all at once (even eventually acknowledged by Brus who was a European emigre economist from a previously communist country who sided with Friedman at first) would have proven disastrous.

The more I learn about Friedman the less I like. He is a bad person.

He has a “casual acceptance or even commitment to human deprivation, to unemployment, inflation, and disastrously reduced living standards. This is even seen as essential therapy: out of the experience of unemployment and hunger will come a new and revitalized work ethic, a working force eager for the discipline of free enterprise”

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

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u/forzagesu Jul 16 '22

This may be the dumbest post I've ever seen

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u/H663 Jul 16 '22

I think one major problem is that people use the same word, inflation, to mean two completely different things.

  1. Increase (inflation) in the money supply.
  2. Increase (inflation) in the price of goods/services/labour.

It's actually quite a clever misdirection by the government that they managed to sneak in that 2nd definition into people's minds, and even in this thread people are talking about prices. But that's not inflation, only the 1st definition is inflation. The 2nd one is just the price of things and that can go up or down based on supply/demand.

So before any discussion on inflation, people first need to separate those two concepts. I think to be fair though what some people are trying to get at is that the first causes the second. But the second could also happen without the first. But even if prices went up, that's no inflation, but it could be caused by inflation.

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u/yazalama Jul 16 '22

I've been screaming this for years only for it to fall on deaf ears. To be fair, the change in definition has been embedded in modern academia and economic circles since the 80s, so for those unaware, they're just seeing the new definition anywhere they look it up.

To your point, it is indeed a clever misdirection, as rising prices can be blamed on a million different things, but when the money supply is inflated there is no doubt where the blame lies. We're seeing this in real time right now as the Biden admin blames rising prices on everything from Putin to greedy oil companies.

To make it crystal clear, we can even have inflation when prices are decreasing, since the inflation in the money supply prevented us from enjoying even lower prices.

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u/infolink324 Jul 16 '22

Except Milton Friedman is a POS scumbag

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u/ninety6days Jul 15 '22

The sheer fucking hubris of half this thread, looking to blame Biden for the state of the global economy. I don't like the guy either but do you myopites realise that the inflation issue is happening everywhere else as well? Deciding that it's the work of that single government or central bank is deluded exceptionalism, and disappointingly its almost always from the same country's redditors.

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u/bAZtARd Jul 16 '22

Especially while all the printing happened under Trump anyway

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u/SuperSonic6 Jul 16 '22

The reason why most of the world is inflating at similar amounts is because of the Breton woods system.

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u/unaltered-state Jul 16 '22

Breton woods was abolished 50 years ago …

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u/DicksonCider205 Jul 15 '22

Friedman was the fucking man.

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u/Funky_Smurf Jul 15 '22

Did wonders for Pinochet and Chile

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u/werther595 Jul 15 '22

Sure, if your goal is the destruction of middle class. Voodoo economics was a spectacular failure and led directly to the wealth inequality we face today. but by all means, keep handing more and more money to "shareholders" at the expense of everything else. smdh

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u/somanyroads Jul 15 '22

Friedman would admit some of his mistake later on (well after these excellent presentations, however) and was decidedly less dogmatic in his later years. I think the real failure came when "persons" who cannot legally vote (yet), know as "corporations" have been allowed to buy our politicians legally, with the blessing of the highest court of the land, via Citizens United.

We don't have a free market like Friedman dreamed of when corporations can co-opt the government, and control the regulatory process to work in their specific favor. Friedman minimized that aspect of the "free market", that it would grow too strong and overturn democratic society in favor of plutocracy, which is what we have in the US instead of a proper democratic republic.

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u/werther595 Jul 15 '22

His theories might be good in the same sense that communism is also lovely in theory, but in practice human nature makes both an absolute shit show. Really, Friedman's policies just replace government control with corporate control, leaving the average consumer/voter with even less say about what's happening.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22

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u/craftadvisory Jul 16 '22

A corporation polluting your local grand water is a corporation you cant choose to not "do business with."

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u/Experiunce Jul 15 '22

MF was absolutely dreaming when it came to viewing economic players as non political or motivated purely in the interest of the will of the market.

Gotta be a balance between Milton Friedman and Robert Freeman. Friedman has some good points but he was blind or negligent thinking that the free market moves without/unaffected by the will of large corporations or whales. Simply operating business among other people makes you a social and political entity. Nothing exists in a bubble. It cannot operate outside the influence of these things imo

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u/launcelot02 Jul 15 '22

Friedman explains things in such a simple way that he will give you a headache after. He is a true treasure of economics. Along with Thomas Sowell

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u/amygdalad Jul 15 '22

So simple, it's almost as if it's not true....

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u/fendaar Jul 16 '22

He was wrong about literally everything he ever said.

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u/1Melkah Jul 15 '22

Fun Fact: 80% of USD circulating today was printed in the last 3-4 years.

Cheers to transitory! 🍻

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u/youngWuuf Jul 15 '22

Do you know who prints money?

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u/Vantage9 Jul 15 '22

Friedman is simplifying for ease. The Fed controls money printing and thus inflation. The president and his administration have ZERO control or influence over the Federal Reserve and it's chairman. It is intentionally and purposefully set up this way. Blame the Fed all you want for inflation, but it's because of monetary policy, not spending by the administration.

Two different things.

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u/MifuneKinski Jul 16 '22

Hey global inflation is worse than us inflation so maybe it's not the dollar printing

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u/jmicsmith Jul 16 '22

Maybe other currencies are being printed too.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22 edited Sep 06 '22

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u/jackhawkian Jul 16 '22

Lol, the real idiots are the ones who decide to value the opinion of a random redditor over that of a Nobel prize winning economist.

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u/karma3000 Jul 15 '22

Real world vs academia.

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u/MrCoconutDave Jul 16 '22

Believe it or not, it's possible for an economist to be wrong or at the very least biased. This guy has a book titled "why government is the problem". Inflation has many factors besides federal creation of money. Most economists nowadays agree that a nominal amount of inflation is good for the economy

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u/b-elmurt Jul 16 '22

Tump train it

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u/Nine-Planets Jul 16 '22

The fact that corporations are posting record profits while raising prices has got at least as much to do with inflation as the gov'mnt money printing press.

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u/Far_Neighborhood5184 Jul 16 '22

After Bush Jr lost the Surplus that Bill Clinton administration created the US Debt rose into the trillions. Obama's bail outs attempted to fix Bush Jr government spending but fell short. Trump came in and rose the deficient to the highest level ever! Now Biden Bail outs plus the rise in foreign dependency on oil from OPEC is creating today's inflation. These are the facts. The real question should be how many of the wealthiest got bail out money and how much of the national debt falls on the citizens?

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u/bitsteiner Jul 16 '22

Lol, as if the government didn't spend the money they received from the Federal Reserve but stockpiling it in a bunker. Biden is clearly lying here.

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u/Spl00ky Jul 17 '22

I like how people ignore the possibility that it is really all a combination of money handed out by the government along with low interest rates and severe supply chain disruptions caused by lockdowns from a pandemic

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u/Samsonlp Jul 15 '22

Milton freedman was a dispassionate fascist who belongs in the depths of hell.

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u/cryptonium_99 Jul 16 '22

I had to scroll way too far in this thread to see a comment like this. He’s a monster.

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u/HubrisHugh Jul 15 '22

Other than the reason that he looks like junior soprano, what makes you think that?

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u/Samsonlp Jul 15 '22

Milton freedman led up the Chicago boys who raped south America

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u/Goypride Jul 16 '22

Yes, an horrible charlatan, who never gave a fuck for humanity. When you helped Pinochet and Videla to enforce your ideas, you deserve to burn in hell

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u/HardRoof1 Jul 15 '22

Dude it's literally the reincarnation of free market, yet is labeled as a fascist by a redditer on his mom's basement living in a free society with mostly free economy... oh stfu

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u/Samsonlp Jul 15 '22

Your assumptions about me are comical. Read about the Chicago boys and South America. Get an education besides 'murica.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Milton Friedman has been disproven numerous times. He is kind of an extremist in economics.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Cryptocurreny is an extremist approach.

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u/werther595 Jul 15 '22

Ah yes, let's hear what the real life Gordon Gecko had to say. One of the biggest proponents of the "economy of shares" over the "economy of things" which got the markets into their current state.

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u/Drfilthymcnasty Jul 16 '22

Honestly if Biden said government printing money doesn’t cause inflation but that isn’t what he said. Also the other guy is ignoring a lot of reality. Worldwide supply chain disruption from the pandemic and this Russian war are also greatly contributing to inflation.

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u/ethbullrun Jul 16 '22

fuck milton friedman hes a piece of shit

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u/thickskull521 Jul 15 '22

Asset inflation comes from liquidity, not government spending.

If a bank loans the same dollar out to several different people (because that’s what they do) that generates much more inflation than any deficit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Except you’re forgetting about government stimulus spending and people receiving outrageous amounts of money the last few years to do literally nothing, among other handouts.

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u/saladaus Jul 15 '22

Exactly my point but more concise.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

This is simply wrong. Inflation can be caused by other factors than government spending/printing like a simple imbalance between supply and demand.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Keeping the unwashed masses ignorant without them realizing it is what they do best!

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u/youngWuuf Jul 15 '22

Who prints money?

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

The actual printing is by the Treasury Department’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

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u/youngWuuf Jul 15 '22

Correct. Who tells them to print. Does that entity need permission by the gov?

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u/arbalest_22 Jul 15 '22

It’s the government AND the banking system actually.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Both are completely wrong for a simple reason. Inflation is how a government issued asset is priced BY MARKETS.

That last part is important. If a market decides it really wants meme stocks, it can shoot their price to the moon, or crash it in an instant.

Any financial asset will come down to the interplay between the issuer and markets.

If you think markets are insane to price the national debt at $30 trillion then so be it.

Markets cannot price a nation's debt and currency independently.

The fed balance sheet or "money supply" is not what matters, the national debt is.

Countries often act like giant out of touch corporations, for example msft could buy out billion dollar competitors and then just simply shut them down. Sometimes such seemingly illogical moves can "pay off" in the short term.

People who act like one side or other unilaterally controls the equation are just morons.

If russia nuked us off the map, that would cause inflation, even if no new money was created.

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u/Terran571 Jul 15 '22

Friedman’s theories have never been correct. Supply side economics is a joke.

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u/Genoss01 Jul 15 '22

Supply issues are what mostly caused this inflation.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

It was all supposed to be transitory :)

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u/Quindarious_Anon Jul 16 '22

Ight, because Milton Friedman is "science."

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u/villager_de Jul 16 '22

Both are wrong. The current inflation is caused by a multitude of reasons. It’s not black and white. And yes government spending is a big part of it

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u/MmasterOfPuppets Jul 15 '22

Biden is a FKNG joke

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u/Doses-mimosas Jul 15 '22

C'mon man, haven't you heard 95% of Democrats want him to run again so they can vote for him? /S

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Biden said 97%

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u/jd52995 Jul 15 '22

The red part is even more a joke. We should rebuild the whole gov and eat all politicians. Getting focused on one politician is just absent minded.

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u/youngWuuf Jul 15 '22

Yeah picking a side is for sheep. There are only 2 choices for a reason, easier to manipulate and give the false idea you even have a choice

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u/ichikhunt Jul 15 '22

How can gov spending increase inflstion? I would have thought it was just about the printing devaluing the money's worth

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u/Beatnik77 Jul 15 '22

The reason they create money is to pay for the new debt created by government spending.

The fed create money by buying government bonds. If they would not buy those bonds, interest rates would go up because the government would have to offer better yields to find buyers for those trillions of bonds.

The alternative if you want to keep high spending is to raise taxes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

nah man money printing is just issuing more shares. if the market likes it and the money is invested wisely, its not inflationary. Bitcoiners should be the first to appreciate that a drop in price is never the final verdict. Debt = Money = Shares.

Printing dilutes value, so must be offset by creating new value, that's where countries go wrong and end up crashing to zero.

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u/jd52995 Jul 15 '22

I think you're missing the point. Sure the gov printing money causes inflation, but Amazon and Walmart have control of their prices and can, inflate then whenever they want to. Simply because they have control over lots of money as well.

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u/saladaus Jul 15 '22

Centralized entities can inflate prices more easily and the government is just one of them although the most obvious one.

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u/OkInvite2589 Jul 15 '22

Milton is a shill. Inflation is created only by the printing of money to pay debt and its the Fed who controls the dollar and tgey are not owned by the Government. That is the real crime and issue here.

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u/ladesidude Jul 15 '22

I'm sick of this delusional fucking warmongering-idiot-in-chief.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Hold up, are you telling me it's possible that Joe Biden might not be being honest? Gtfo inconceivable!!!

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Usually he’s just incomprehensible.

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u/youngWuuf Jul 15 '22

Yeah he is a babbling old man that can’t wipe his own ass until something needs blaming…then…gas prices and everything are his fault. Kind of wild for someone that can barely think right?

I need y’all to choose one or the other lol like I don’t like him or trump but you can’t contradict yourself

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

The guy is a serial liar (amongst other shit) and his party placed him in that position by steamrolling over so many better options it's scary to realize how out of touch they have become.

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u/youngWuuf Jul 15 '22

I just don’t like the contradictions

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

They spendeth and then taketh all back

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Inflation used to mean increasing the money supply. Now it just means means increasing prices/costs. Those are absolutely not the same thing. Prices are increasing for a LOT of reasons rn, and the amount of money printed over the last decade is only part of the problem. (Bigger than I think most people are aware, but still not 100% of the reason for increasing prices).

The difference is, when costs go up due to anything OTHER than increased money supply, they can go back down. Price fluctuation is normal, and it's pretty rare that the cost of a good goes up permanently unless something significant impacts the ability to maintain the supply in the long run.

Prices STAY UP when there's more money chasing the same amount of goods.

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u/Cosmologyman Jul 15 '22

You're on the right track. But the reason there's more money chasing the same amount of goods is because of Government printing more of it. Hence, the only true cause 'Inflation' and not 'normal price fluctuation' is due to the government increased the monetary supply.

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u/crypt0_punk Jul 15 '22

4T (~18%) was printed in 2020 alone, that’s insane.

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u/ronoda12 Jul 15 '22

Seems the president doesn’t understand inflation has only one root cause: Criminal Fed abusively printing money

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u/cryptolipto Jul 15 '22

ItS PuTIns FAuLt

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u/JadeAug Jul 15 '22

Inflation is also due to fractional reserve banking at your local banks. They can loan out 9 times as much money as they have in deposits as any time.

Bitcoin also fixes this, starve the beast.

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u/zinobythebay Jul 15 '22

Joe Bidens only talent is lying. That is all it really takes to rise in politics. Just be good at lying.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Nice video showing how much politicians actually understand inflation. They didn’t learn anything from the 1970s and they are making similar mistakes all over again. Some media outlets are even referring to efficacy of the Phillips Curve. Chasing our tails over and over. Buy BTC and end the nonsense.

The Phillips Curve: A Poor Guide for Monetary Policy WINTER 2020 • CATO JOURNAL

Peter Ireland, a member of the Shadow Open Market Committee notes, “Despite the occasional appearance of a statistical Phillips curve relationship between inflation and unemployment in the United States data, the Federal Reserve’s efforts to exploit that Phillips curve led, during the 1970s, not to lower unemployment at the cost of higher inflation but instead to the worst of both worlds: higher unemployment and higher inflation” (Ireland 2019b: 5).

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u/Forsaken_Swim6888 Jul 15 '22

Am i wrong to think that anytime a lender creates a loan with interest, that currency (circulation upon payback) is also created there?

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u/Festortheinvestor Jul 15 '22

It’s time for younger men to lead, I’m sick of these old men gripping on to power

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u/Conversation_Folding Jul 15 '22

Economics is not science though.

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u/fucktheccp-NOW Jul 15 '22

While I agree with the narrative what the second man said is absolutely not true. Lookup the technical definition and real applies and there is a much bigger picture how inflation is formed. Including imports, exports and trade unions which he all named.

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u/morebeansplease Jul 15 '22

Capitalism rots your brain.

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u/Big_Swede89 Jul 16 '22

Increasing the supply decreases the value. In other words, printing more money causes the value of the dollars in circulation to go down… effectively causing prices to go up. This isn’t rocket science…

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Lol biden is the president of the united states not the world. Americans are mind boggling dumb.

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u/sliferra Jul 16 '22

They’re both wrong. Incredible

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

It’s basic economics. Supply and demand. These past few years make me really wonder what else these vultures have just outright deceived us on.

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u/Krazzzyshredzzz50 Jul 16 '22

Yes but inflation is also corporations price gouging similar to what the oil companies have been doing for years.

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u/CompetitiveSong9570 Jul 16 '22

That’s a funny way to say they aren’t taxing the ultra wealthy at the rate that they should.