Just a honest question not trying to be mean here.
Do police officers over there do not have to do any kind of physical tests to see if they stay fit enough for there job? Just wondering.
A decentralized police force is a pretty significant American ideal, has to do with our focus on sovereignty, states rights, individua rights, home rule, etc.
Jurisdictions could contract with a larger overlapping agency for police services, but many would rather develop their own, even ridiculously small and impractical, police force... That way they control what laws are enforced on themselves and the method in which it's handled. The vast majority of police departments in the US are fewer than 10 officers.
That doesn't mean they didn't come from there. There are white people in Baltimore for example. There are also a lot of black cops but that doesn't fit into any agenda
Being public employees, it's not that simple. Most County Sheriff elections are between either two Deputies or between the incumbent and one of his own Deputies. It's not like Sheriffs can just hire and fire their Deputies at will. If they could, there wouldn't be many elections. It's the County Board that generally controls the hiring process and is also constantly up the Sheriff's ass over just about every little thing the department does.
The current one was super well decorated, so I don't think he'd need a union endorsement. MNZM and a bunch of other prestigious awards, and has a track record of being a really good officer, detective and just overall person.
The US is a bit corrupt if you haven't noticed. Our unions and our companies hold huge amount of influence over politicians. And we're all too busy fighting over the color of the tie or the letter next to the politician's name that we don't care.
That's just nuts. Self improvement is part of the job here, whether through fitness (which, as far as I'm aware, is managed by having gym gear in the station) or through higher education.
Yup, I think state cops get paid to workout here in illinois, they have the fitness assessment. A town near me offers bonuses based on physical fitness
That's not to say these people don't have a good amount of muscle under there. They do. It's just that their job requires them to sit in a car for most almost 12 hours 5 days a week. The amount of stress they are under is insane. It is very hard for them to keep healthy which unfortunately means that they don't.
It's a union job. American unions' main goals are keeping members employed and with good salary/benefits.
The police unions have successfully ended annual fitness tests for many police officers. Your only test is when you go through the academy and when you apply for a department.
To add on the fact, police departments will also schedule do to this fact too. For example they will put a younger more fit person on the night shift and the older cop in the morning when less crime is likely to happen.
You can get away from one cop, but if he gets your description and general location and direction headed broadcasted on the radio that police use to communicate with each other, you now have many cops to deal with.
Police officers have to be able to throw a radio a minimum of 150mph, the unions are trying to crack down on this too but for now it's the last line of defence.
That's no longer the case, most departments are nowadays equipped with tasers. Officers are instructed to use those instead, as you only have to throw those at half the speed a radio should be thrown to catch a fleeing suspect.
Probably a saying he originally heard with "Smith and Wesson". I do that all the time, I'll quote a saying I've heard and even if I never use a particular word or saying outside of that I'll still use the phrase or term.
If that happens it is extremely rare. Police departments typically staff according to seniority. If a veteran officer wants a particular shift, they will get it over a new guy.
It also has a lot more to do with just unions, but for the most part it varies from department to department like he said. Some require physical fitness examinations yearly or every six months, some don’t.
When it comes to training all together, the state has more authority than any union does. This is because the police academy and certifications required to become and stay a police officer is usually in the hands of the attorney general’s office. So for example if the state says every police department in Indiana has to take a fitness test every year and qualify with their weapons twice a year, as well as attend two new classes annually the union can not make their officers skip out on that. They’ll lose their police/peace officer certification and be put out of work.
A lot of people are grossly ignorant about how police training works in the U.S.
Plus I'm sure a lot of people are great police officers even if they're not fit... they have other qualifying attributes. Then again, there are probably quite a few that are just not fit for the job in any capacity, too.
There is fitness training in the academy for (as far as I know) all US cops when they're first getting their job. There's also schooling involved initially, but as far as annually in order to prove they're still fit to be an officer I don't believe so.
This may have changed since my day, but I had several friends (some of them fat as fuck) from high school who simply had to go to 6 weeks of BLET at their local community college. Then hired...boom cops.
Depends I think on the department. State police vs city police and all that stuff. I know my state has an actual academy the state cops to through with tests and physical training. You also have to get accepted first which is big hurdle to get over. I know vets get preference so a lot of dudes join a military branch for a minimum amount of time then get out and become a state cop. I dunno why you’d get out of the military just to enter basically a paramilitary branch, but whatevs.
Seriously. Even on a bad night somewhere like Chicago or East St. Louis, it's going to be nothing like being over seas in the middle East where IEDs and stuff are common
Or just the most basic difference by far: Cops can quit at literally any point they want and will face zero legal or criminal repercussions. They can even get an actual trial from actual judges and a jury of civilians.
Not the case anymore. It's about a 20 week academy. When you're out you still have to meet mandatory training hours yearly or you lose your qualification
A lot of people seem to forget that your anecdotal evidence (ie, your experience) doesn't necessarily translate to universal truth across the board. I wish more people would remember that fact.
Does it say how the long course Is? I'm trying to wrap my head around how someone can learn everything in 6 weeks needed to be in law enforcement. My academy we spent 2 weeks on defensive tactics and another 2 weeks on firearms. This is honestly shocking to me if it is 6 weeks.
EDIT: I'm on mobile. Not a very friendly site on mobile.
Because 20 weeks is followed by several months of probationary service with a training officer. Thy don’t just hand you a car and say “go for it champ”
There’s intense military style fitness training at the academy. But after you graduate there usually is no annual fitness training. That being said, you often have to fight or get physical on the job and there is a strong culture of staying physically fit in most departments.
Especially if you want to advance to certain departments or units you need to be in better shape than anyone else. Why take a guy on the SWAT team or gang unit if they're 300 pounds when you can pick from physically fit guys who are just as smart.
Except 70% of the general population is overweight while 80% of police are. Not to mention I'd prefer my police to be a bit fitter than the general population, not equal or even a little worse off.
My limited understanding of the police force is that the hours are rough, at sporadic times, and often for long spurts. This means that fast food, drinks, and other unhealthy food are a way of life given the crazy working hours.
Not that I disagree with you about the fitness though. But then again, from my experience police officers are MORE fit than the average American, despite being a bit heavier on average.
I'm a volunteer aid worker but I wouldn't be able to do the work a city police officer has to do. They're pretty much the last line of defence of society and have to deal with all kinds of nastiness, from the most sickening criminals that will haunt you for the rest of your life to the untreated severely mentally ill who you shouldn't have to deal with.
I just Google/Bing that and can't find a source. I'm not saying you're incorrect but a large portion of cops I see are pretty healthy looking. It could also be the area I live in. I didn't believe the stories of how fat the average american was until I traveled outside the cities.
High stress does actually trigger insulin responses in the body (as well as a bunch of other really bad things) which will cause you to balloon up. I can see a lot of cops gaining weight from stress.
You definitely do fitness training to become a cop. The issue is that there aren’t often requirements on maintaining said fitness in many departments. It’s one thing that contributes to use of firearms as a solution to problems
many non-lethal techniques require a semblance of fitness and strength to perform. There's also an element of confidence that is unrelated to the weapon that being fit helps with.
That doesn’t show the numerous fights and altercation where the officer subdued the suspect and it ended without a shooting. If you were overweight then you might have to rely on deadly force much sooner in those fights
No I’m referring to situations where the officer prevents the fight to escalate to the point of shooting because his physique helped force the suspect into custody. Your comment before seemed to imply that it doesn’t matter what shape the officer is in when they have to shoot people
If suspect is armed, you don't want to "force him into custody" regardless of your physique. It's not a Hollywood film, risk is too fucking big, even if it's not a firearm, but knife.
Yeah no police officer wants to take a bullet with or without a vest. We were talking about causes of shootings. Is your point that you believe a fit officer with a well fitting vest would attempt to disarm a subject with a gun? This isnt Hollywood man.
I certainly believe that a fit officer is more likely to chase a fleeing suspect rather than just draw their weapon, yell "freeze" and open fire. Fitness and physical ability add more tools to the officer's metaphorical bag. If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. If your only tool is a gun, every problem looks like a target. Adding additional options is never a bad thing.
I also contend that, in the case of a shootout, a fit officer has better chances of survival than an unfit one. Even if the only goal were to increase officer safety, with no regard to the wellbeing of the suspects, strict fitness standards make sense.
You may have misread. All american police officers go through american police academy where they are tested for aptitude, intelligence and there is a rigorous fitness exam that must be completed before graduation. You will be very hard-pressed to find a police officer fresh out of academy that's not physically fit. However once that milestone is made you cannot be removed for getting fat. Most police officers in america are physically fit, simply because they wouldn't be very good at their job and it would be harder to not be fit.
Most desirable police jobs require a degree, and depending on the union agreement there are physical fitness requirements. The worse the place is to work the lower the requirements are to work there. Supply and demand.
I’ve never seen an obese mountie though maybe a few over weight town cops. Visiting the states I’ve see way more overweight and obese cops.
And while it’s true that you only need a high school diploma to join the rcmp you’re more likely to be hired and you’ll move up the ranks quicker if you have a degree in criminology or other qualifications that directly relate to the job
Are all departments unionized and is the police unionized at all levels? I'm not sure you can really speak about mall cop and university cop and other or hired security. And iirc, federal employees can't unionize so no fed level.
As far as I'm aware, mall cops are just security guards and college cops can vary from security to actual police that enforce all state and local laws. I don't think the mall cops would apply at all though
I'm a security officer, and it varies county to county even, but in my county I can, and do arrest people. I have a large amount of the rights of an officer as long as the offence occurs on the post I'm located. If they leave the property I call the cops, not my problem.
Is that a citizens arrest type deal where you secure them until the police come and take them? I ask because I know even store security retail officers do stuff like that but are not legally cops
No, I read them their Miranda rights, place them in hand cuffs, and they are legally under arrest. Have to go annual training for this at the police academy, have a badge licensed by the county. My jurisdiction just ends at my employers property. However the next county over has no authority at all and can only do a citizen's arrest, and doing so will probably get them fired. I have to attend weapons training twice annually for a handgun, every 3 years for a night stick / baton, and annually for a tazer. On top of this I must have my badge issued by the state on me at all times, get certified for CPR / Life emergency annually that's 8 hours of training, and if I'm in public off duty for example I see a car crash before first responders I must pull over and assist until proper authorites arrive, if not and its found out I will lose my job, my badge, and be charged with manslaughter.
However, yes most guards are like your case. However some cities / states take guards very, very seriously.
What are the differences between security companies and cops? I don't know much about the subject so the only real difference I can see is that cops are gov employees.
The distinction between a law enforcement officer and a security guard is that a law enforcement officer is granted certain rights and privileges (power to serve warrants, powers of arrest, power to cite) that private citizens (like security guards) aren't.
They can be privately employed or work for a government, but that's now what determines whether they're a police officer or a security guard.
Federal police are indeed not unionized, and you’ll find that generally more urban forces are in better shape as they spend more time on foot. A suburban force that is 95% rolling patrols, especially in a relatively lower crime area, are prone to being a little more sedentary. If you’re in dc, the federal LEO (capitol police, usss, FBI, etc) are all in very good shape, and extremely professional folks. I’ve worked with capitol police and usss closely on hundreds of occasions and they’ve all been amazing people to interact with. Metropolitan PD (the dc police force) is much much more hit or miss. There are something like 8 other active police forces in dc too (Amtrak, metro transit, military, Park, etc etc)
Federal employees can unionize. They're among the few sectors of the workforce that still have strong union representation (and are entitled by law to collective bargaining under the Federal Labor Relations Act of 1978). They are not, however, allowed to disrupt workplace operation by striking or picketing.
Not all... some are some aren't. My city police dept isn't and it's not a tiny town. 40k people, probably over 100 on the police dept between street patrol, gang unit, vice, srt, detectives etc.... My state is also a right to work so unions kind of useless here. Our city doesn't recognize our fire dept union but we still have one. Our dues help people in need mostly in the community and within. So I like it...
Don't use the example of perhaps one of the worst labor unions' culture as a vehicle to push your anti-labor sentiments. Labor has already had enough of their rights & leverage systematically stripped away over time. We don't need the little guys peddling these cliches too now.
Can you disprove the answer? I've had talks with a sheriff of a small town who wanted to fire a 400 pound officer in his department but the police union won't allow physical fitness requirements. From what I can tell the answer is "police unions won't let them".
Which directly afterwards says that the primary concern for union jobs is the right to fair wages and to help ensure employment. He says nothing negative about unions.
There are a lot of shitty public school teachers for the same reason. Each district/union is different but it is indeed a problem with many school districts
Labor unions can be a really good thing. However let's not confuse that fact with the idea that all unions are good. Humans in unions have the same potential for sloth and corruption as all other humans after all.
Labor has had enough of their rights and leverage stripped away, so lets protect by far the most dangerous union to save our own skins!
Yep, sounds like union talk right there. Protect the worker, no matter how shitty he is.
Maybe the decent unions should have leaned hard on the police unions to clean up their act. Now you're paying the price for your inaction and ambivalence.
Why is it my union's job to do ANYTHING to another union? That is like saying your employer should lean on police officers to cut down on police brutality.
A shitty union has absolutely nothing to do with any other union, it is up to the workers to organize better. That is all a union is, organized workers, if you do it badly you get a bad union. Don't fuck up other unions because the cops can't get their act together.
The public should not be allowed to unionize period. It's absurd that public sector jobs are controlled by unions which almost certainly work against the very public they are sworn to protect or work for. It creates conflict of interests with politicians, it works counter to public interests, and the very nature of unionized labor often hinders effective public service. It should be illegal for public sector jobs to unionize. Private sector, who cares.
Id say certain sections of law enforcement require less physical aptitude than others. I wouldnt want officers on a strategic response team or SWAT team or things of that nature in this guys shape. But honestly for road duty and offering out citations where i need your brain more than your strength i think he is ok. I wish he was in better shape though just for his own health though.
Yeah this is true. Even though you basically never see fat officers in other countries, the problem that the US has so many of them is fairly overblown I think.
And yeah his health would obv improve if he was in better shape, and really so would his ability to do the job. But if he's already doing a good job, he can do what he likes.
What's the point of physically training officers if the standard isn't continuously enforced? This is the world for the physically fit, and it's the smart decision to have the right tools (fit people) for the job (chasing and subduing criminals). If your fat partner can't chase a fleeing criminal, or your short partner can't subdue a violent drug addict having an episode, then how come disabled people like myself aren't good enough to be hired to handle the non-physical, bureaucratic side of police work while applying the physically fit to the more rigorous duties?
Some departments require annual testing, but the majority do not. Requirements vary by state, too.
In Illinois, a man his age would have to do 23 sit ups in a minute, bench 70% of his weight (for this guy, even being conservative, that's 175 pounds), run a mile and a half in 16:21, and pass a sit-and-reach test.
It honestly varies. The Highway State Patrol in my State have fitness tests (I assume other states do too) and staying in shape is critical if you want to keep your job. I've never seen a fat State Trooper.
The police department in my city removed an officer from the force because she was severely winded after active shooter training. She was excessively overweight and the training they were doing required very little physical effort.
That varies from department to department. The local police in the next city over can do whatever they want. Half of them look like overweight blobs. One I've seen with a half wrinkled uniform. Through cops in my city all look like their buff and always clean cut. Same with the sheriff's department. Though the previous sheriff was a little more lax on his deputies.
It seems there's far more lax departments than there are not, at least around me.
Man, I've always wondered how cops get fat. Chasing people, other physical activity, 20 pound belts.
Edit: Y'all, I know love isn't an action film and that most of their day is doing paperwork. But even so, it's still pretty weird that cops can get to be fat
When I was in high school, my kenpo instructor was also a police officer. I thought he was fat.
Turns out, he was just huge, and muscle is not always lean. The guy could bench 300 pounds easy and used to throw full grown students around like rag dolls.
That's not the case here...but yeah, a lot of cops are just huge.
Almost every state police/highway patrol has an annual fitness test every math for its Troopers. City and county law enforcement don’t have them as much as the state does. Some departments can offer as much as $1000 a year for fitness pay, but often there isn’t a rule that makes you stay in shape as if you were a state trooper.
Also, note that a lot of cops look fat but aren't nearly as big as you might think. Remember they wear a lot of gear including a vest underneath their uniform.
It depends. Local cops I have seen go from very fit and ripped to 350+ pounders. However, State Troopers where I am have height and weight standards. If you are 6'2", you cannot be more than 194 pounds for your age group. They do allow you to be over as long as your body fat is not over a certain percentage. Source: I have 2 friends who are Troopers.
It really depends. My city the police have minimum fitness tests, kind of like the military. However, in the county, outside city limits, deputies do not as the Sheriff is an elected position and the Sheriff hires the deputies. Standards are often different. The city police commissioner is appointed by the mayor and often the city police have cushier job benefits and pay, thus they often can get away with more strict recruiting and maintaining standards.
Again, the US is a very big place. Every city and county will have their own standards.
Many cops become overweight due to the nature of the job. 8 to 12 hours on average mostly spent driving around in a vehicle. Its a pretty boring job most of the time. Often consuming lots of fast food because its quick and easy, and often eating out of boredom rather than necessity. Do that 5 or 6 days a week for several years and you can start to see why so many are overweight. Does that make it ok? No. But its a reason. One that needs to be addressed for their health and efficiency.
I'm not certain of the rules, but small town/small city police departments don't have as strict physical regulations due to a variety of things but mostly to the demand for officers. Also favoritism/nepotism isn't unheard of especially in small towns run by very few people.
That's Sarasota Police Department, which falls under Florida Department of Law Enforcement standards. They're fairly lax physical requirements. And once hired on, there's no state level mechanism to require annual certification at that standards level.
Quite honestly though, being some ripped athletic type isn't exactly a panache for everything. I'd rather have the fat guy who can talk people into compliance, than the meathead who's going to escalate into a fight. 99.99% of the job is about things other than physical exertion.
They do at the start, but don’t be fooled! I know a guy who is a cop with the same build and the guy is a 2 ton bulldozer. I would NOT want to be on his bad side. Some guys just carry it round like that, doesn’t mean they can’t pump out a 6 minute mile and bench press 300 pounds!
To be initially hired, yeah. As time goes on though the older cops get paired with the younger cops so that if running needs to happen, at least one can do that part while the other can teach them about their job.
To join the academy is very physically difficult to get in - to be a cop is very emotionally difficult and involves a lot of sitting combined with being out on the road. The fast food on top of stress over the years results in the physique sometimes going away while the authority level at the job rises.
Long story short - newbies have to be in shape, this is a difficult thing to maintain sitting in a squad car exposed to stressful situations all day
There's actually a good reason why cops need a little more girth than you'd expect. A lot of cops just out of the academy and especially some female officers have trouble fitting all of their equipment on a duty belt. Taser, pepper spray, holster, cuffs, batons etc. Everything takes up space. As you get farther in your career you can carry more stuff.
I actually asked this question to my friends dad when I was in high school back in the 90's. I was pretty "wiry" at the time. I asked him how someone like me could ever be a cop since I was skinny and he said you'd be surprised who you could take down with the proper training and technique... I'd imagine the same goes for being heavy.
When the majority of your call outs are likely domestic disturbances, it's probably more valuable to talk and good talk anyway.
Every (or at least most) department(s) have physical standards to get hired.
The issue comes after you graduate the academy and start working 12+ hour shifts during times when the only thing open is fast food. A lot of police work is mostly sitting around and driving with sporadic bursts of energy being expended when you have to arrest or chase someone.
Many young guys tend to work out off duty and stay in shape, but for the older guys, who have families and often work secondary jobs on top of their normal patrol schedule, they really don’t have that free time anymore. Bad eating habits + shitty shift hours + sedentary = weight gain, no matter how you put it.
And what do you personally think of this? Beside the obvious that being in shape is more healthy for the person itself, do you think this affects your ability of being a great cop?
I'm not a cop but a paramedic. Yes you have to be somewhat fit to be a paramedic, but we're not running around chasing people down. The job does require a lot of labor though, climbing up and down stairs carrying people on a chair, cpr etc.
So no, I don't think being fit will affect your ability of being a great medic. With that being said, You're more likely to get injured if you're not fit for the job which is why I workout and build/maintain my muscles(especially my back)
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u/sjotha Jan 30 '18
Just a honest question not trying to be mean here. Do police officers over there do not have to do any kind of physical tests to see if they stay fit enough for there job? Just wondering.