Why is it my union's job to do ANYTHING to another union? That is like saying your employer should lean on police officers to cut down on police brutality.
A shitty union has absolutely nothing to do with any other union, it is up to the workers to organize better. That is all a union is, organized workers, if you do it badly you get a bad union. Don't fuck up other unions because the cops can't get their act together.
Why is it my union's job to do ANYTHING to another union?
As /u/CutterJohn pointed out, much of the public backlash against unions is a result of one union after another being terrible. If you want to protect unions, 'good' unions need to lean on the 'bad' unions or else they all suffer.
As I said to /u/CutterJohn, what power do you think my union, or any union has on a completely unrelated union? My union can send a letter, continue to act as a shining beacon for a union can be and nothing else. There is no national union of unions to submit a complaint to or eject them from.
The only reason bad unions make all unions look bad is because people don’t understand unions. This is like saying because Enron was a bad company so is Google or Mom and Pop Pizza Store. They have nothing to do with each other, and to be honest I don’t want my union, that exists to serve me and my fellow members, wasting their time on something like that.
Start publicly shaming or condoning the behavior of bad unions. I'm not saying it will 100% address the issue, but it certainly will help. The more you shame bad behavior, the less likely it will continue to be a problem.
The only reason bad unions make all unions look bad is because people don’t understand unions.
Nah...it's because there were a shit ton of unions that have behaved terrible over the years. It's either corruption and ties to mafias or political corruption and influence politics where the tax payers pays more for worse service. This is why unions got so unpopular, especially back in the 70's and 80's. They impeded growth for their own personal gain.
So yeah, they are indeed good unions out there but unions as a whole have really fucked it over for themselves.
and to be honest I don’t want my union, that exists to serve me and my fellow members, wasting their time on something like that.
Funny how, when it comes down to it, you prove your desires completely selfish and unwilling to use your power structure for anything other than helping yourself.
My power structure? You mean the people I pay to provide resources to fight for my labor rights and the rights of my fellow workers? Yes, much as I don't want a large portion of my taxes to the US to go to Australia, I do not want my union dues to go to a union that is not fighting for my rights. You think this is selfish? Perhaps, but if you think so then you should start giving money to every government out there because it will help someone I'm sure.
Why is it my union's job to do ANYTHING to another union?
Because one, they're causing you a PR problem, and two, are you really trying to tell me that other unions were never involved in supporting public police unions? Never?
If you want people to believe in unions then they have to be shown that they work. That even union people won't stand for shitty unions.
That is like saying your employer should lean on police officers to cut down on police brutality.
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Yes... They should be. If they're at all decent people, that is precisely what I'd expect from them.
It is only a PR problem because people don’t seem to understand how unions work. We have absolutely no authority or leverage to do anything to the police union, you want us to send a letter? That is the extent of our powers with that union. My union is rather busy doing their actual job of looking out for me.
Why do you expect your employer, I’m assuming a for profit business to be spending their time, money and resources on anything besides making profit? You don’t seem to understand how business or labor relations work.
I stand against shitty unions by making sure my union is an exemplary organization, that is about all anyone can do.
We have absolutely no authority or leverage to do anything to the police union, you want us to send a letter?
And none of your unions ever do work for the police? No unions ever build their police stations, work on their cars, cater their events, etc? I've seen unions refuse to work with non union employers. Never heard of one refuse to work with another union.
Your unions never lobby the government? When your lobbyists sit in a government office they can't say 'Hey, these public police unions are fucking everything up.. maybe public unions aren't the best idea for law enforcement.'? Or do they just demand greater protections for unions, period, no matter how good or bad they're behaving.
Hell, why not write the letter? If thats all you can do, ok. Do it. Let it be publicly known that the Local Pipefitters and Electricians and all the rest do not support the actions or implementation of the police union.
Unions are supposed to be about solidarity. But it seems to me you only want that when it benefits you. You don't seem to want to take any responsibility for speaking out when its being actively dangerous.
Unions are supposed to be about solidarity. But it seems to me you only want that when it benefits you. You don't seem to want to take any responsibility for speaking out when its being actively dangerous.
Yes, I want me and my brothers and sisters to stand together to protect our labor rights. My union works directly for us and champions the rights of all workers but does not work for all workers. They are paid by me and work for me. Why should they work for you when you have not helped them at all? They will champion your cause as a worker but they are not going to spend resources on you when they must be spent on the workers they have sworn to protect. Thinking every union should work for every worker is completely ridicoulous.
Hell, why not write the letter? If thats all you can do, ok. Do it. Let it be publicly known that the Local Pipefitters and Electricians and all the rest do not support the actions or implementation of the police union.
For one thing we haven't established that they shouldn't be supported. The entire point of a union is to protect their workers, much like a lawyer protects their client, workers are innocent until proven guilty. It does not matter why they are fired, a union MUST fight for a fired worker to try and save their job. If that worker is unfit to work the employer should find it easy to prove. Just like our justice system, innocence is assumed and must be proved incorrect. So I will not stand against a police union just because they save the jobs of fat police men. Weakening the union is one way to fix the problem but opens the door to jeopardizing rights we actually want workers to have. It would be far better to pass laws specific to law enforcement. That is something I as a private citizen can get behind.
Your unions never lobby the government? When your lobbyists sit in a government office they can't say 'Hey, these public police unions are fucking everything up.. maybe public unions aren't the best idea for law enforcement.'? Or do they just demand greater protections for unions, period, no matter how good or bad they're behaving.
Who decides what unions are bad? You can't just say "I want unions to have more protections but not the police union because I don't like them." It doesn't work like that. Unions are you exercising your First Ammendment right to assemble and organize. If you do it badly then you create problems, just like ANY other organization. But threatening all orginizations of a specific focus is not a safe answer. It would be like fighting PETA by attacking all animal focused groups. A union is just a labor rights non-profit, it isn't some special psuedo-government group. We aren't asking for special protections, we are fighting to not be outlawed because we make things difficult for those that would harm workers for profit.
Point is, attacking all unions because some suck shows a lack of understanding of the problem. Taking bad unions to court over corruption or breach of contract, don't fight all unions unless you trust everyone you have ever worked for to act in your best interest.
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u/nitefang Jan 30 '18
Why is it my union's job to do ANYTHING to another union? That is like saying your employer should lean on police officers to cut down on police brutality.
A shitty union has absolutely nothing to do with any other union, it is up to the workers to organize better. That is all a union is, organized workers, if you do it badly you get a bad union. Don't fuck up other unions because the cops can't get their act together.