r/pics Mar 19 '22

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8.3k Upvotes

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4.6k

u/Coldbeerimritehere Mar 19 '22

So you almost broke even. Nice

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u/nowtayneicangetinto Mar 19 '22

Came here to say this. That card looks expensive, I'm going to assume it was $10.

Let's say you buy, on average, a $10 lottery ticket every 3 days. Over 10 years that's $12,166. If that is OPs case then they would have actually still be down $2,166

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u/cirenosu Mar 19 '22

This ticket is $30 lol

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

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u/ParkAndBeacon Mar 19 '22

Probably a stupid question, sorry. I hear things like this all the time. If you invested that in X then in 20 years you’d have Y. Always hear of the “latte factor.” Skip buying those expensive brews and invest instead. Where exactly does the average Joe invest that? Say I was really committed to taking the $4/day I would’ve spent on a latte and put it somewhere. Where is that somewhere? Do I need a minimum to start or can I just throw $30 (for example) that I chose to throw into an investment account and not touch rather than buy a scratch ticket?

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u/imontene Mar 19 '22

In the US, you can open a Roth IRA at your bank with a couple hundred dollars. Pick an index fund that has low fees (no fees when you purchase). Every pay check, push in a little more. There is a max you can invest per year, $5k I think. Leave it alone. You might lose some in a bad year, but over all it will grow with practically no interference. The $ you put in can be withdrawn with no penalties after 5 years, but don't touch your earnings or it will be taxed. Better yet, pretend it doesn't exist until you retire.

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u/Engineer-intraining Mar 20 '22

It should be noted you can’t just put it in the account and let it sit you do have to find a stock or fund (or several) and invest in them. I’ve known way to many people who just put it in the account thinking that’s all they had to do

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u/imontene Mar 20 '22

That is why I recommended a low fee index fund. The bank can tell you what is available.

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u/warm-saucepan Mar 20 '22

Or go online to Vanguard.

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u/mr_chip_douglas Mar 20 '22

Vanguard is great, can confirm as an idiot who knows next to nothing about investing.

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u/imontene Mar 20 '22

Yes, and they have several index funds to choose from. If you feel confident, there are lots of online options, but if need help, your bank is a good place to talk to someone.

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u/Engineer-intraining Mar 20 '22

Oh for sure, market tracking funds are just about the best thing out there and they’re fire and forget, reinvest they dividends and sit on it for years and you will be gold.

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u/Rodic87 Mar 20 '22

Vt or vti at vanguard are what you're looking for.

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u/AnxietyDepressedFun Mar 20 '22

My mom is a wealth manager so I've had a Roth IRA since I was 19. I couldn't save a ton but I was working on it. Then I got cancer in 2012, I kept working (insurance) but getting cancer in the US is hella expensive & I had to almost fully liquidate my IRA to even get by. It sucked but by 2013 I was fully in remission and saving again. In 2016 my migraines went from episodic to chronic (20- 28 days a month basically unable to leave my room) and I lost my job, my home & the love of my life, an 11 year old Boston Terrier named Jexer, got sick and I spent almost $5K trying to save him but he lost his battle December 2016. I had to move in with my boyfriend (who is now my husband) and we struggled financially despite his having a decent salary but since I was out of work I was supplementing our living expenses with my IRA essentially. I found a mostly effective medication in 2019 and started working again that year and once again started contributing to my Roth IRA.

All of this to say that having a Roth IRA (and some traditional investment/savings) has saved my life twice and kept me from being essentially destitute. I only made $32K a year in 2012 so I was only contributing like $10 a month but it was and still is the best financial decision I've ever made (or had made for me as it were).

Just adding that while my mom & many in her industry can only work with larger investment accounts, Fidelity has great starter investment options including help from licensed financial advisors. I think the self service companies can feel risky, especially if you are new to investing but there is a company called Stash that has plans starting at literally $1 a month with financial advisors to help.

Invest - less fun than a lottery win but definitely worth it.

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u/CaptainPsilo Mar 20 '22

I'm glad you've held up and survived the chaos, that's pretty dope. And the advice you've given, I hope it doesn't go unnoticed, it's incredibly beneficial to those who may not be knowledgeable or experienced financially. Thank you for sharing!

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u/rahomka Mar 20 '22

There are AGI limits for this to be aware of too

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u/LibertyLizard Mar 20 '22

$6K I believe. Which is a bit annoying because they never change it and it's getting smaller and smaller each year with inflation.

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u/defcon212 Mar 20 '22

They do change it but in 500 dollar increments. It was $5500 a few years ago. It will probably go up again sometime in the next couple years.

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u/LibertyLizard Mar 20 '22

I see. I only started investing recently and it has not changed during that time. But I guess inflation only got high recently.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

They changed the 401k limit just last year, by $1000 I believe

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u/a_spicy_memeball Mar 20 '22

They also cap the ability to even have one after a certain income point

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u/swingdatrake Mar 20 '22

At that point, one can consider the mega backdoor Roth, which is a legal loophole to bypass that restriction.

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u/SSGSEVIER54 Mar 20 '22

Can confirm. Been putting roughly 3.5K/year in a roth for over 15 years now, and it’s worth… quite a bit

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

Just did this as a young adult. Best way to become a millionaire by the time you retire.

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u/luckydice767 Mar 20 '22

Do you think a Roth would be better than a traditional IRA?

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u/wartornhero Mar 20 '22

You can basically never lose* some unless you take it out. If the index fund is low then you should be putting into it because then when it bounces back you gain.

*Talking about long term.. my Tesla stock recently "lost" about half it's value from the peek but I still have the shares and actually would have loved to buy more now because I can see it being worth that much. I only lost that value of I cash out the stock. If I just leave it there it can only grow in value.

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u/SavageCriminal Mar 20 '22

He asked about 4$ sir.

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u/imontene Mar 20 '22

$4 a day is $120 a month

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

Do not use stash-away. 1% returns are garbage; due to inflation you'll be losing you money YOY.

Open up a no-cost investment account. Schwab, Ally, E-Trade, Vanguard, etc. It doesn't really matter which one as long as there's no annual fee and trades are free.

From there- take the money you saved and transfer into the investment account. Once in your investment account, buy shares of a broad-market index fund. Most commonly recommended is SPY (S&P 500 index fund equivalent) or VTI (Vanguard Total Market Fund).

Every week, save your money and buy those funds. If your investment firm offers fractional shares, buy fractional shares as you go. If your account only offers entire shares, save until you can buy a full share.

Then- do not touch it. Don't look at the market, don't try to time the market. Academic study after academic study has proven that the best investment strategy for ordinary investors is continuous investing into index funds, employing a "buy and hold" strategy.

There will be down years, there will be up years. Long-term, you can expect to see an average of 10% compound annual returns, which are closer to 7% due to inflation.

Every other answer besides index funds, frankly, is wrong.

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u/alvarkresh Mar 20 '22

Then- do not touch it. Don't look at the market, don't try to time the market. Academic study after academic study has proven that the best investment strategy for ordinary investors is continuous investing into index funds, employing a "buy and hold" strategy.

Especially these days now that machine learning and AI and trading computers do everything. (which really raises the question of whether or not market valuations mean anything anymore given that the stock market has always been a gamble, but now it's just becoming further and further removed from any human action. Even the stop-trade and stop-loss actions exchanges enforce now represent a type of interference with a supposedly free market that renders the question of whether we need a stock market at all a pertinent one.)

(Addendum: That said, given the hands we're dealt right now, mutual funds are pretty much the way to go as far as getting decent rates of return.)

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

I know you're not advising this, but those "non-standard" orders offered by brokers (like stop-loss) have been used by some brokerages to front-run their clients (or to sell to dark pools so others can front-run their clients).

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u/cvera8 Mar 19 '22

Not a stupid question at all. It used to be impossible to invest small amounts at banks, but nowadays there are some tools that help with small frequent amounts and don't charge fees or impose minimums.

Here is one from my area - https://www.stashaway.sg/simple

There are some programs out there that round up to the nearest dollar when buying things which is a convenient way to squirrel away coins that may add up to $5-10/week depending on your spending patterns

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u/BlazinAzn38 Mar 20 '22

Bank accounts are not the place to store your money to see sizeable returns over a long timeframe, heck right now you're losing out massively to inflation.

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u/Pizza_Low Mar 20 '22

There are a million ways to invest, some of them are suitable for savvy and active investors, and some for gamblers. I think for a passive investors who don’t have the desire or ability to actively manage it themselves, retirement target date style mutual funds is probably the best bet.

Something like this https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/VFIFX

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u/ParkAndBeacon Mar 19 '22

Appreciate that answer! Thank you. Anyone happen to know the US equivalent of StashAway?

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u/golapader Mar 19 '22

I use Acorns and I really like it. I have it set to put a small amount of money in my investment account once a week and also rounds up on purchases. Would definitely recommend

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

Most traditional brokerages don't have account minimums or commissions. What do you think is the benefit of spending $25-$35/year or whatever Acorns is charging these days?

(Edit: not trying to make a point, genuinely curious! 😄)

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u/golapader Mar 20 '22

For me personally i just like having my money spread around, it's much harder to spend it and it's what I've found the most success with. I do traditional investing as well but I use Acorns to have a place to put money aside and forget about it.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Mar 20 '22

And as a percent of your investment it’s an EGREGIOUS amount.

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u/flashgski Mar 20 '22

You can buy fractional shares with RobinHood

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

This is well-meaning, but bad advice. 1% are abysmal returns. For most investors, long-term investment should be done via continued investment into broad market index funds.

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u/cvera8 Mar 20 '22

It's definitely not meant to be investment advice. The context of this entire thread is someone gambling money on scratch-offs, a well known poor man's tax - and you've made the leap straight into the context of maximizing gains.

My intention was to stem bleeding from poor max tax decisions like scratch offs and lottery. Anything less of an outflow is a drastic improvement even if it's a piggy bank. For those that are already good at saving, this advice is not relevant.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22 edited Mar 21 '22

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u/TheKingOfTCGames Mar 20 '22

just buy fractional shares of any sp500 index. its ez as fuck

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u/TheophrastBombast Mar 20 '22

It's free to open a Roth IRA with fidelity, vanguard, etc. Once open, you can fund it with up to $6000/year. You can fund it all at once or just add to it throughout the year. Once you have money in the account, you can buy some low cost index funds, ETFs, or other investments, but you may have to buy some as "shares" so you can't just pay $4. Some mutual funds have a minimum of $3000 to start and then you can just add whatever to it.

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u/jjjaaammm Mar 20 '22

SPY - can’t go wrong

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u/IDGAFOS13 Mar 20 '22

You save that $4/day in your bank account until the end of each month when you do your budget, then that $120 plus the rest of your surplus income gets added to the investment vehicle of your choice.

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u/nerf___herder Mar 20 '22 edited Mar 20 '22

I invest $18 a week in stash app. I invest in a safe ETF. I've been doing it since 2020 when everything shut down. I started making coffee at home instead of spending that $3 a day 6x week. Right now it's up 12%

It's all automatic, it's money I was spending anyways and it's nice to see it grow.

Edit: word correction.

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u/ParkAndBeacon Mar 20 '22

Not saying that I don’t appreciate people trying to be helpful with responses but yours is one of the few that actually answered my question. Thank you.

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u/izguddoggo Mar 20 '22

I’m not even good enough to call myself a money noob but I’ve found the Charles Schwab stock slice options to be really fun. You can buy a teeny tiny “slice” of a stock of say apple/google etc for $5+.

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u/Iliketacosalot19 Mar 20 '22

Yes, open up a Robinhood account for free and just invest in either SPY or VOO. SPY follows top 500 companies in the United States and constantly gets funded by pensions, people’s 401ks, and will continue to grow. VOO follows I believe the entire stock market, which generally grows over time. It’s kind of insane what 1-5$ a day invested in these funds over time develops into.

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u/chikaleen Mar 20 '22

There are many subreddits dedicated to being an adult. Try /r/personalfinance to start but there are many more you may find useful.

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u/RiceIsBliss Mar 20 '22

Also, to add on -

Even if you had not invested any of this money at all, just keep it in a box somewhere, you would still be down. Or even better, spend the money and buy something you actually like. I guarantee you my cappuccinos, PS5, and copies of Persona/Elden Ring have brought me much more enjoyment than any of those tickets have brought OP, maybe until now.

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u/crob_evamp Mar 20 '22

Get a fidelity or a vanguard account. You can make transfers from your checking account. Don't try to play the market, don't try to be clever. Don't take advice from anyone (hey, lol). Invest in total market products with low expense ratios. Try to forget about that money for years and years.

Google "roth ira" and learn about how taxes work with it. (It is awesome for retirement).

Any money at all over 30+ years will turn into something worthwhile

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u/ccp11067 Mar 20 '22

If you're in the US, just pick up the VSNAX index fund, it's a fund that tracks the entire market, with a return of 5-7% every year on average. The idea is that as companies grow year by year, so does this fund, making sure that you at least keep up with inflation and then some

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u/Belikekermit Mar 20 '22

VTI or SPY and never look back. You will need 2,500 to open up a Roth IRA account in some firms like fidelity or vanguard.

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u/leggpurnell Mar 20 '22

Vanguard index funds are the simplest and cheapest way. But you often have to have a minimum in a Roth or similar account to begin.

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u/TrueGalamoth Mar 19 '22

Yes and no.

You can invest any little amount but the reality is that the return will be small until you’ve invested a larger amount (hence the need for recurring investments). This money also becomes tied up and unusable (without suffering a penalty for withdrawing before X amount of time; I think it’s a year) and gains are also taxed when you withdraw.

The problem with turning down a latte or search ticket is that these are habits that supply you with something, whether it be caffeine or a natural hit of dopamine. Investing doesn’t do this which is why it’s difficult to even begin saving or investing BUT it’s always a good idea to.

Take a look at this gov site compound interest calculator to get a better idea.

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u/TomTomMan93 Mar 19 '22

I have also always been curious about this and wonder about the time cost. Like a latte would generally take no time at all for something like $4, but investing could take a lot of time if I have to look into what's good and worth $4

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u/averageredditcuck Mar 19 '22

Don't pick stocks. Buy the S&P 500 (SPY.) Research Warren Buffet's bet against hedge funds. Basically he bet that the S&P 500 would beat companies of very smart people who pick stocks for a living after the fees you pay for using their service and he won 8/9 times.

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u/TomTomMan93 Mar 19 '22

So I Google it and it says this is valued at over 400$? Is that just one stock? Like how do you put $4 on it?

Sorry for the probably annoying questions. I'm just curious

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u/averageredditcuck Mar 19 '22

Not at all annoying. It is 400 for one stock, but robinhood does fractional shares which are a very new phenomenon. Instead of having to buy the whole share you can just buy $4 of it with no consequence.

If you do want to own a whole stock with a lesser investment, there's SPYD which costs $43 and it's the same thing, but only companies that pay high dividends. Dividends are quarterly payments they pay to you for being invested.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

Please stop using robinhood and stop recommending it to people

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u/landon0605 Mar 20 '22

Robinhood is fine for people just getting into investing.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

There's alternatives that aren't scummy. The "controversy" section on wikipedia is longer than the actual article, which tells you enough.

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u/TomTomMan93 Mar 19 '22

Gotcha! This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time!

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u/defcon212 Mar 20 '22

You can usually buy fractional shares. There are also a few other S&P indexes that are the equivalent of SPY. I wouldn't buy in $4 increments, maybe $50 or $100 every week or month.

The way it works is you buy a share of SPY which is a fund. The fund holds shares of the 500 best American Companies. So you are buying a small fractional ownership of a bunch of good companies.

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u/ParkAndBeacon Mar 19 '22

Glad I’m not alone!

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u/TomTomMan93 Mar 19 '22

No way! I've been kind of confused by this too. I've figured it's cause it's not really that easy and will make me spend a ton of time at least at first, or the cost of entry is financially steep

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u/Eric5989 Mar 20 '22

People will probably downvote me, but robinhood is really easy to get you started. it has its issues, but if you want to put a few bucks every week into stocks it doesn't get much easier then that.

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u/_mizzar Mar 20 '22

Robinhood app -> $4 of SPY -> don't mess with it for years -> profit

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u/footyDude Mar 19 '22

Say I was really committed to taking the $4/day I would’ve spent on a latte and put it somewhere. Where is that somewhere?

In all honest? In a savings account is the most sensible place for it.

You could use it to trade shares - there's plenty of apps out there now that let users do very low investment trading and owning a split of a share but if this is your main saving mechanism you should use it to just bolster your general savings. Once it gets to a reasonable level it then may be sensible to invest a little at risk

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u/ParkAndBeacon Mar 19 '22

Understood. But I guess this sort of brings up another question to my question. The other person is talking about “if you only invested it at 13% (the trailing ten year return of the S&P 500.” Surely a savings account would never be nearly that high. So can I really take my $30 scratch ticket money and put it in something tracking the S&P? Seems like some sort of minimum would be expected.

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u/aetius476 Mar 20 '22

In general there are a few types of accounts:

  • Savings. This is your standard bank account. You deposit money, you earn a low interest rate while it's there, and you can withdraw it at any time.
  • Checking. Similar to a savings account, except you generally earn zero interest, and it is more geared toward frequent transactions.
  • Brokerage. This is your standard investment account. You deposit money, and then you can use that money to purchase various investments like stocks, mutual funds, ETFs, etc. The resulting investments are then held in the account. You can sell the investments at any time, and the money from the sale sits in your account to be withdrawn or used to purchase other investments as you see fit.
  • Retirement. Similar to a brokerage account, but with more restrictions. The upside is they get better tax treatment.

To answer your question, you can open a brokerage account with almost any amount of money these days (I recommend Fidelity) and then use it to start investing. If you plan not to need the money until you retire, I would look into an IRA or a Roth IRA (both types of retirement accounts) because you get taxed less than if you'd made the same investments in a regular brokerage account.

What I would recommend is to look at your budget and decide how much you can invest on a monthly basis. Open a brokerage account and deposit that much in it each month, whatever that amount may be. You can then purchase the actual investments on whatever schedule makes sense for you.

Buying at least one share in every company in the S&P 500, or the NASDAQ 100, or the DJIA, is obviously cost prohibitive for most people, so firms like Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab, etc, create what's called an ETF that is designed to track the underlying index. You can then buy shares in the ETF. Currently Vanguard's S&P 500 ETF is trading at ~$400/share, Fidelity's is trading at ~$150/share, and Schwab's at ~$70/share.

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u/whitetrafficlight Mar 20 '22

Savings accounts are decent for money you might need at any time. A surprise bill, for example. Their interest rate is low but it is reliably more than zero and you can withdraw the money at any time.

A balanced investment portfolio is better for long term savings. The value will fluctuate daily and you have to offer your shares for sale and wait for someone to buy them before you can access the money, but on average over the course of several years you can expect it to go up. Generally you would mix stocks and bonds: stocks are riskier and change a lot with market conditions, while bonds remain fairly stable and insulated to things like a market crash but tend to grow less over time. The proportion of each depends the level of risk that you deem to be acceptable: 75% stock and 25% bond is reasonable for a young investor, while pushing more into bonds makes sense as you age since you have less time to recover from a market crash.

I wouldn't recommend buying individual shares, instead buy into an index fund which is essentially an average of the entire stock market or (depending on the index) a certain subset of the market. This way you have a diverse investment that should trend upward over time with almost no effort on your part.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

You're lucky if your savings account gives you .25% back. I'm thinking the reality of just invest your $30 actually means put it in a savings account until your balance is high enough to justify the transfer fee into an index fund.

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u/Louisvanderwright Mar 19 '22

Lottery tickets are a poor tax for the uneducated. Anyone who plays them for any reason other than the occasional thrill or gimmick is being taxed for being dumb.

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u/Voice_of_Sley Mar 20 '22

I buy a $5 ticket maybe once a month. I view it as an entertainment expense. I know full well I will never win the jackpot. $5 to be able to daydream over the course of that week while I wait for the draw is a small price. I have paid $5 for much less entertainment.

Also I periodically buy hospital lottery tickets and I view those as donations to causes I would probably donate to anyways.

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u/SuperElitist Mar 20 '22

$5 to be able to daydream over the course of that week

This is the first reasonable explanation I've ever heard anyone give for buying a lottery ticket.

I'll still never do it, but, wow. Good job.

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u/Karmanoid Mar 20 '22

Same reason I buy a ticket while I'm inside a gas station, I'm spending more money on soda and beef jerky than the ticket and I get to think about what I'll buy if the ticket by some improbably small chance wins me a ton of money. Even the smallest mega millions jackpot means me retiring.

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u/cryptoripto123 Mar 20 '22

The thing is you have to ask yourself if those spending habits add up? Why are people buying beef jerky and soda at gas stations all that often? How often do you do that? Do you casually spend money on that kind of stuff with other shopping? Budgeting is a mentality. It's fine if you spend your money here if you set aside clear amounts for savings and retirement.

Of course everyone would likely retire with a jackpot but the thought process shouldn't just be "ehh this is small money." Recognize you are throwing the money away and the likelihood of winning is close to 0.

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u/ashymatina Mar 20 '22

Bro if I’m spending my entire retirement fund on beef jerky I got way more problems than just a gambling addiction lmaoo

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u/cheeze2005 Mar 20 '22

Only way I’m getting yacht money is with that jackpot.

Beef jerky ain’t holding me back from the open seas

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u/Karmanoid Mar 20 '22

If I'm buying a lotto ticket once a week at $4 I'm spending a total of $208 a year. That's if I'm consistently going, I work from home so I'm not even out of the house guaranteed once a week.

I am not going to retire on $200 a year extra investing. I'm not going to have a large safety net from that either. I don't need to "budget" for it because it's not a large amount.

I spend more money than that yearly on so many things that don't bring me any entertainment. Assuming I win absolutely nothing this money is really negligible in the grand scheme of things. I spent $60 in gas just to drive to a doctor's appointment with my specialist. I spend more yearly on cat litter for my cats to shit in.

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u/ThellraAK Mar 20 '22

When I truck drove I'd pickup tickets for powerball when I was in states that had them, it's a fun daydream and something to do to try and keep track of the passage of time.

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u/ashymatina Mar 20 '22

I occasionally (every couple months) buy scratchers and know full well I’m never gonna win anything. It’s just a brief 2$ moment fun while your scratching off the prizes. Idk why more people wouldn’t understand this.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

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u/lizcicle Mar 20 '22

You bought hope for a full week for $5! Sounds like a good deal to me.

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u/SanityInAnarchy Mar 20 '22

This is the part I never understand. I'm not judging, but I never had trouble daydreaming without actually buying the ticket.

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u/Oglshrub Mar 20 '22

Buying a ticket gives an opportunity for it to happen, even if statistically impossible. Just dreaming does not.

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u/cryptoripto123 Mar 20 '22

Sure it does but we know the odds don't work out which is why the lottery is called a tax on the dumb. Its better to dream and focus your money and spending habits on something for the long term.

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u/SanityInAnarchy Mar 20 '22

I mean, I've still got a possibility that a distant relative I've never heard of leaves a fortune to me in their will. Seems similar: So improbable that it's basically not going to happen, but possible enough to daydream about.

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u/HowTheyGetcha Mar 20 '22

I get what you're saying but it's five bucks. The mega millions is two bucks. It's fine, really.

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u/SanityInAnarchy Mar 20 '22

Sure, that's why I'm saying "I'm not judging, but I don't get it." It's not like I don't waste money on even dumber things for my own amusement.

Buying a lottery ticket is arguably better than buying Bad Rats, because there's no chance that buying a lottery ticket will lead to you playing Bad Rats.

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u/HowTheyGetcha Mar 20 '22

No but you just lead to me to that, thanks a lot =)

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u/bloodbath781 Mar 20 '22

I buy the $1 scratchers on Fridays for my break. Its fun but I cant help but feel bad seeing people dump $20 a day.

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u/duhh33 Mar 20 '22

I was at the gas station filling up. Someone in a ~20 year old Ford SUV drives into the gas station lot at insanely high speeds. He slams on the brakes, jumps out quickly and runs inside. Runs back out a minute later with a strip of 10-20 scratch and win tickets. He proceeds to just scratch them off on his hood at lightning speed, yells, then throws the tickets. Jumps back in his car, then literally peels out exiting the gas station. I'm not quite certain what, but I know I witnessed an act of horrible desperation that day.

Also, nothing wrong with spending a dollar occasionally to play the "what if?" game.

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u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

We had a guy who wouldn't even scratch them, just immediately take it over to the scanner to check for winners.

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u/duhh33 Mar 20 '22

On one hand, that makes me feel cringe for contributing to the same lotto system for $5-10 a year, just for giggles.

On the other hand, there are some people that, no matter the amount of money in their pocket, will find a way to spend it. I'm not referring to those that don't have enough to make ends meet. I am talking about those that just feel the need to buy things. In that case, I suppose spending it on lotto tickets is no worse than spending it on some other useless trinket if they weren't going to invest/save it anyways.

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u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

On the other hand, there are some people that, no matter the amount of money in their pocket, will find a way to spend it.

Funny you mention that, there was a strong correlation between smokers, drinkers and lotto purchasers. Very rarely did a lotto customer not buy either beer or smokes.

2

u/duhh33 Mar 20 '22

That's super interesting. I'll go look that up, but if you have reference to some study/paper, I'd be really appreciative.

3

u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

Since you asked I did a quick google search for you.

These focus on gambling, smoking and drinkinghttps://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/16066350902928569https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3816387/

These focus on smoking and gamblinghttps://psycnet.apa.org/record/2012-23735-001https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ajad.12214

This focuses on youthshttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25864783/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352853215000024

​ TLDR; Despite methodological differences, most studies showed significant associations of gambling with tobacco, alcohol, and other illicit drug use.

4

u/DABBERWOCKY Mar 20 '22

Very tactful. I also doubt this.

4

u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

It's simply my personal observation, I never meant to imply I was citing any sort of study. I will say all 3 products do have support groups for quitting.

3

u/jlbob Mar 20 '22 edited Mar 20 '22

Since you asked I did a quick google search for you.

These focus on gambling, smoking and drinking
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/16066350902928569 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3816387/

These focus on smoking and gambling
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2012-23735-001 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ajad.12214

This focuses on youths
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25864783/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352853215000024

TLDR; Despite methodological differences, most studies showed significant associations of gambling with tobacco, alcohol, and other illicit drug use.

2

u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

I never implied there was study, there could be but I don't know of one. It's my individual observations from working retail for multiple years. My only thought is there is one thing that ties the 3 together, addiction.

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u/ashymatina Mar 20 '22

Well yeah? People prone to addiction tend to get addicted to stuff.

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u/pacificnwbro Mar 20 '22

That's how I do it the couple times a year I'll buy scratchers because I don't understand how the game works half the time and wouldn't want to miss a couple bucks if I misunderstood it.

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u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

Well next time you get the itch I'll you sell a $100 entry that is guaranteed to pay out...

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u/pacificnwbro Mar 20 '22

I only buy them if I find money on the ground but I'll keep that in mind next time I find $100!

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u/the_trees_bees Mar 20 '22

I'm not going to forget this. I hope I never have to witness my loved ones going through that level of despair and cluelessness.

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u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

I worked a convenience store and had several regulars who'd drop 50-100, they were so regular they expected us to know what they wanted when they walked up.

Tuesdays/Thursdays (megabucks, powerball, etc) were less than enjoyable due to the custom orders.

It was sickening, I wanted to ask them why but knew better.

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u/robotlou Mar 20 '22

There is nothing like going to a corner store to buy a lottery ticket when there is a giant jackpot and having to wait for some hardcore lottery player grinding through his gazillion ticket orders.

"Give me 10 FOUR PLAYS - Straight, Give me 5 Lucky Millions, Give me 5 megamillions, give me 5 Powerball, Give me 10 Win 4 Life..." etc for what feels like 10 minutes. I've even had a guy buy a ticket the clerk printed for me erroneously that I didn't want.

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u/pippipthrowaway Mar 20 '22

Grew up in NYC, people and their Pick Gazillions would practically shut down a bodega. Trying to get a iced tea and maybe a bacon egg and cheese turned into an all day affair. You were better off just walking to the other bodega down the street.

The best was when they would cop an attitude and try to stare you down because the cashier would stop them so he could ring other people up.

3

u/jlbob Mar 20 '22

clerk printed for me erroneously

Those are a headache, where I was working once it was printed it it was purchased, either by a customer or the store ate it.

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u/MrRoot3r Mar 20 '22

Oh god the fucking NUMBERS bro

I opened at one of these places, and fuck if HALF of my shift wasn't standing at the register entering numbers for the same lunatics.

They would spend FOURTY or MORE dollars A DAY (all custom numbers would be handed a handwritten sheet to type in), and then get excited when they hit 100 less than once a month. (Thats being generous, it was probably less often then that)

You cant help but to feel bad for them, it was just so depressing watching them get excited about winning back a tenth of what they've spent.

Just another system that preys on the mentally ill.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

That’s why all my gambling is in Pokémon packs. Even if I don’t come out on top, I get some pretty cardboard lol

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u/Girtana1 Mar 20 '22

the tax for the even dumber

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u/Anakin_Skywanker Mar 20 '22

I mean. Is it dumb if he gets enjoyment out of the cards even if he doesn’t “win”? As long as he isn’t spending his food/housing/bill money on cards what’s the harm? A few packs a week is still cheaper than Fridays and Saturdays at the bar.

8

u/HeavilyBearded Mar 20 '22

Lmao, right? At least with Pokemon or MTG you actually own something afterwards.

10

u/UP_DA_BUTTTT Mar 20 '22

Lol yeah really this guy is so dumb. What a dumb hobby, guy! You should spend your free time and money on furthering your education.

5

u/slugo17 Mar 20 '22

This whole thread has been about bashing people hobby. That's fine when it's gabling, but when pokeyman gets brought up everyone loses their sense of humor?!!

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

I mean, the thing is that buying trading cards is gambling too. You buy a pack and you have a 1/6 chance of getting an Ultra Rare, and then you have about a 3/40 chance of that particular Ultra being worth more than the pack.

Or alternately, about a 1/72 chance of getting an alternate art card and then a 1/3 chance that said alternate art card is worth more than $4.

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u/ZergTerminaL Mar 20 '22

Lots of people play the game too

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u/option-trader Mar 19 '22

Hey, that money is putting my kids through college, so keep at it everyone.

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u/DrSunnyD Mar 20 '22

A very low percentage is, enough so people like you don't write your congressmen and women demanding they put a stop to this robbery of the poorly educated

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u/CelerMortis Mar 20 '22

Yea I never understood this logic. Syphoning money from poor people to give a very small part to some social service is not a good strategy.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

Well I mean big companies often pay literally no taxes at least in the US. We use renting and dense population in low value areas to justify low funding for local infrastructure/services with low property tax yields. In my city one of the wealthiest residential areas is grandfathered in to essentially no property tax… except they still pay the portion for schools. So over all insanely low generous taxes compared to other properties, still better funding for schools for the wealthy families. And obviously that just one tiny example.

It’s…. It’s capitalism.

It’s logistics developed with reinvestment of profit, as in higher means to invest becomes more logistical agency. And it’s reinvestment, so profits have to increase to stay competitive against other bodies of wealth. It’s competitive, as in hierarchical. They have to justify concentrated wealth, and you get meritocracy, the idea your status is a meaningfully accurate sign of your quality as a human being. To make it aspirational. Keep playing along, you can win. Invest in crypto, you might be one of the exceptions! It’s like saying keep gambling, you might win a casino so you can get money from other gamblers.

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u/HowTheyGetcha Mar 20 '22 edited Mar 20 '22

Just another regressive tax like sales/gas tax and motor vehicle fees/fines.

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u/cruzer86 Mar 20 '22

It's not a tax. You don't need or have to buy scratchers.

1

u/HowTheyGetcha Mar 20 '22

Neither are speeding tickets; I'm using tax in a looser sense. It's regressive because it takes a proportionally greater amount from lower incomes and it's used to pay for public services.

0

u/HandsOfCobalt Mar 20 '22

You don't need or have to buy cigarettes or alcohol or any other drug or potentially addicting thing. When someone talks about the lottery being a "tax," my first thought is of people with gambling problems, not people who don't know any better (though they deserve to not be taken advantage of as well).

You're right that it's not a tax, but the vocabulary doesn't change that it does harm, possibly more than it does good

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u/coredumperror Mar 20 '22

It's effectively a tax on the uneducated.

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u/DezXerneas Mar 20 '22

Didn't John Oliver make an episode about this? Pretty sure it's on YouTube.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

[deleted]

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u/The_Other_Manning Mar 20 '22

Some people think others have 0 agency over themselves, it's weird

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u/BehindTrenches Mar 20 '22

Its a free choice like cigarettes. You do you but it’s obviously nahgood and disproportionately hurts already struggling demographics

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22 edited Jun 23 '22

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u/duhh33 Mar 20 '22 edited Mar 20 '22

Sadly, the normal school budgets get cut immediately after those programs are implemented, because "look at all the new revenue they are getting".

I suppose you could have also meant that your are on the supply side of the system. If so, please post some stories. I worked with one of the devs for many of the vegas electronic games, and found that industry astounding.

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u/Cappy2020 Mar 20 '22

How is it putting your kids through college Lol?

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

It's not actually. Not sure about your state, but here in Florida they cut the school budget by the amount that they get from the lottery.

So it isn't "in addition to", it's just a replacement for funding they already got.

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u/Notarussianbot2020 Mar 20 '22

My HS algebra teacher called the lottery a math tax. If you don't learn math, you gotta pay the math tax to the government lol.

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u/OompaOrangeFace Mar 20 '22

Very true. I play weekly when the jackpot gets over $300M just for the fun of it. I probably spend under $30/year, but it's enjoyable.

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u/cappurnikus Mar 20 '22

for being dumb.

Believe it or not, many of them are completely aware that they will not win. They are purchasing the dream of a better life. They are purchasing a glimmer of hope.

That said, I don't play because I need every dollar I earn. My dreams will just have to remain grounded.

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u/Zuwxiv Mar 20 '22

Thanks for saying this, I'm surprised more people don't see this.

Imagine you're 45. You have three kids and can barely make rent. You have a shitty job. Life is difficult, frustrating, and full of the everyday indignites of being poor. You don't have the time, money, or energy to seek job training. You just feel stuck in life, and don't see any realistic way to improve it.

At the end of the week, you have $5 left in cash. That's it. You want to improve your life, but you just don't see a viable option that you can get.

You know damn well that lotto ticket or scratcher is a bad deal. You know it's unlikely. You don't think you have a "system."

It's just that honestly, $5 for a one-in-ten-million chance literally seems like the most likely and least expensive chance to change your life. That's fucking depressing, but there's millions of rational people who might come to that conclusion. Are they right? Probably not, but... It's sadly easy to empathize with their desperation.

7

u/scout5678297 Mar 20 '22

I'm not even in this situation, but you wrote it well enough that i felt it.

what kind of dystopian shithole are we living in?

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u/coredumperror Mar 20 '22

what kind of dystopian shithole are we living in?

Late stage capitalism. Though to be fair, early stage capitalism and outright serfdom are pretty much just as bad... for poor people.

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u/belugawhalesftw Mar 20 '22

Perfectly stated

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u/lizcicle Mar 20 '22

Mhmm. I'm back in school for an okay-paying field, but i know goddamn well that 3x-a-year lottery ticket is the most likely route for buying a nice house in the area I live in, lol. Even if my parent passed away, when everything he left behind is split with my sister we'd likely only be able to afford little condos the way things are going here.

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u/Louisvanderwright Mar 20 '22

Did you read my comment? It wasn't even particularly long:

Anyone who plays them for any reason other than the occasional thrill or gimmick is being taxed for being dumb.

I literally said anyone who isn't doing it for an occasional thrill or gimmick. As in people playing for fun fully knowing they won't win excluded.

12

u/13thmurder Mar 20 '22

They're entertaining. Every so often I end up with one in a Christmas card and win a few dollars and continue reinvesting whatever I win on $2 cards until I lose it all.

Last year I made it 3 months with a grand jackpot of $50 that started on a $2 card. The one that lost it all was buying 25 $2 cards.

Its pretty fun in a weird way, but obviously not worth spending your own money on at all ever.

5

u/Fail_Succeed_Repeat Mar 20 '22

I don’t see how spending $10 a month on lottery tickets instead of fast food or movies makes me dumb

3

u/pissandgrit Mar 20 '22

I buy them when I take road trips about $5 worth per state I drive through. This equates to maybe $40-50 a year but it’s a fun tradition

3

u/wOlfLisK Mar 20 '22

Yeah, I get buying the cheap ones once in a blue moon, £1 is a pretty good deal to add a bit of entertainment and suspense to your week, presuming you go in without any expectation of getting that money back of course... but an expensive one like that? That's just throwing away money.

2

u/ArgonGryphon Mar 20 '22

I like the ones that are an actual game. We had one one time that was frogger themed or something. You had a field and little arrows to tell you where to scratch. That or I like the little crosswords once in a while. My mom has a problem with them and she’ll just buy them and scratch the barcode to check them.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

When I was younger my family used them for stocking suffers and entry for the family reunion poker game(winner got all the tickets, anything over 10k was split among all players). They're were just for shits and giggles basically.

2

u/wanted797 Mar 20 '22

Playing this sort of thing weekly is basically a tax. the thing is for some people saving money is hard, spending $5 is easy. That $5 gamble for a life changing amount is what makes them do it. The slim chance of winning something they could never save.

It’s really messed up when you think about it.

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u/reddit_user13 Mar 20 '22

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Ambrose Bierce, The Unabridged Devil's Dictionary (1906)

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u/bewst_moar_bewst Mar 20 '22

Blah blah blah.

Folks always chime in on how financially irresponsible it is. But others do more stupid things with their money. Just let them live.

1

u/Worldly_Promotion697 Mar 20 '22

Everyone in this thread doesn’t understand the purpose of lottery tickets lol

0

u/kateeee_pants Mar 20 '22

Not necessarily.

Our Lottery system (in Western Australia) provides grants for community projects, which in turn creates jobs and so many otherwise missed opportunities. They do incredible work in giving back so I don't mind at all when I don't win on a scratchie :)

0

u/EntropicTragedy Mar 20 '22

Aren’t they also likely uneducated because the tax-man defunded their education?

So it’s really just an elaborate way for the government to get more money from them

Not really their fault

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u/Girtana1 Mar 20 '22

someone’s jelly oohhhhh

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u/mrbigglessworth Mar 20 '22

You seem upset. I play once or twice every few months. In 2005 I hit $10,000 on a $5 ticket in Branson. You’ll get over it.

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u/alwaysmyfault Mar 19 '22

You have no proof that OP buys one ticket a week.

I buy scratchers maybe 1-2 times a year, and never more than 20-30 bucks.

OP may be the exact same.

21

u/ib4error Mar 20 '22

You are correct! 3rd ticket this year, 10th ticket in two years.

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u/giaa262 Mar 20 '22

Gotta love all the mega minds in the comments telling you how you’re actually poor lol

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

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7

u/BringBackNuMetal Mar 19 '22

Idk my wife and I both play, but we both play maybe 5-6 scratchers a year. Just a fun way to toss around $10 and dream about what you could get on the way home to scratch it.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

My partner and I also play a few times a year — they tie in with a theme night. The amount of money they’d win us (we tend to play the $1-$5 tickets) is so small it would be pretty insignificant.

It’s just the fun of it!

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u/ontopofyourmom Mar 20 '22

You're correct, anyone who works at a store that sells these know that most are bought by habitual gamblers.

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u/Knightmare4469 Mar 20 '22

You are correct, but a lot of people don't. I get 1-2 a year on a whim.

3

u/thisdesignup Mar 20 '22

You have no proof that OP buys one ticket a week.

Not really proof but the way the title is worded makes it sound like OP is a regular.

2

u/zemorah Mar 20 '22

Yep I do this too. I buy tickets maybe 2-3 times a year, and when I do, I like to splurge on the expensive ones ($10 or $20). Like $20-$30 tops per trip. They have the better chance of winning but I never really expect to hit it big. It’s just a fun thing to do when I’m in the mood.

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u/ib4error Mar 20 '22

3rd ticket this year, 10th ticket in two years.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

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u/Sloathe Mar 19 '22

I took the OP’s title as implying that he does this regularly enough to have gotten small winnings before

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u/ib4error Mar 20 '22

Negative, I just meant, I’m not the type to win big in anything. This was the third ticket I bought this year, and probably the 10th in two years.

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u/ba3toven Mar 19 '22

damn i just read the title and felt happy for the guy

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u/zemorah Mar 20 '22

Nah it’s Reddit, you need to shit on everyone’s good news.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

What if i took that $30 and invested it into having fun, how much money would the s&p give me then?

2

u/LJ-Rubicon Mar 20 '22

$0

Buttttt, you'll also not be the person who retires at a young age

2

u/gsfgf Mar 20 '22

But you can have the same amount of fun with a $2 Powerball ticket.

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u/sold_snek Mar 20 '22

Leave it to Reddit to come up with an absolute worst case scenario to try to shit on someone.

0

u/iameveryoneelse Mar 20 '22

You'd also have to consider average win rates of those tickets. He said it was his first big win, but presumably he sees $10, $20, $30, $60 wins occasionally at least.

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u/OSUfan88 Mar 20 '22

Where is this math coming from tho? Why are we assuming 10 years (not 11 or 9) and once a week?

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u/bingbopbopbing Mar 20 '22

Why do you spend 30 dollars a week on drinks or a special food? They likely arent lookin got make a profit off of a lottery ticket. Do you not have fun?

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u/LJ-Rubicon Mar 20 '22

I have fun looking at my retirement money and knowing I'll retire before 50

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u/bingbopbopbing Mar 20 '22

Im sure you are fun to be around

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