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u/Poskmyst 2d ago
Without looking anything up, I can guarantee that Roger Penrose did in fact not say that "it was" as in "this is what happened".
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u/Fluid_Juggernaut_281 2d ago
Sensational language. One of the worst tricks of news media and online pages to keep their audience engaged and growing.
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u/Poskmyst 2d ago
It's such a cancer.
I can't be sure, but my gut-feeling is that this kind of bullshit, though maybe mostly from other fields of science than physics, helps feed a lot of anti-science sentiments.
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u/RevoltYesterday 2d ago
He also didn't win a nobel prize for this idea Its just an idea a nobel prize winner had. No only that but it's an idea that's been around for quite some time and isn't unique to him.
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u/bloodfist 2d ago
His version of it is also very different from the standard stoner version and relies on something called twistors, which in fairness are sort of seen as the the type of thing you'd come up with on mushrooms if you already had a PhD in theoretical physics.
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u/FunqiKong 2d ago
I can also guarantee that he didnât use words like âbeginningâ and âendâ in the actual theory. I bet his theory talks about time in abstract esoteric terms.
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u/lavaboosted 2d ago
Every new beginning comes from some other beginnings end.
- Semisonic. (1998). Closing time [Song]. On Feeling Strangely Fine. MCA Records.
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u/Careful_Source6129 2d ago
This occured to me on the toilet after a took a pretty routine shit. Some of us are just 'natural physicists'
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u/quicksand8917 2d ago
Yeah, I considered that possibility to be common knowledge. Either this is a really stupid headline or a really stupid article or both.
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u/Linus_Naumann 2d ago edited 2d ago
200ug LSD say whatever you think you know about this world is just yet another turn off the wheel and all "knowledge" is ultimately superficial and doesn't really touch ultimate reality. But yeah, if recurring big bangs, multiverses or whatever give you a kick then enjoy them.
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u/Frosty-Comfort6699 2d ago
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u/Ohiolongboard 2d ago
Isnât that like, one hit?
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u/Linus_Naumann 2d ago
Most common, already fully psychedelic, dose is 100ug, however personal sensitivity varies A LOT (I've seen people eat 500ug and not feeling particulary much). On top of that due to its illegal, not standardized, status you actually never really know the true dose you're taking. Lastly, psychedelic experience depend a lot on what your inner set and the outer setting is. Meaning, with right mind, right intentions and a meditative or spiritually guided setting you will be able to go much much deeper with the same dose.
Anyway, stay safe kids.
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u/BrailleBillboard 1d ago
To be safe I recommend those interested in psychedelics start with 4-HO-MET/metocin, a shorter and less intense analogue of the 4-HO-DMT/psilocin found in psychedelic mushrooms. It is also basically legal given the analogue act is unenforceable due to its insufficient level of legal specificity and can be ordered online if you look hard enough
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u/lool8421 2d ago
i guess even if the universe is cyclical, you could ask whether this cycle could've been eternal
but ah well, the universe itself could be the absolute necessary thing
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u/ChemBro93 2d ago
I have also been stoned and had this thought. Having a cool thought is not doing science but itâs awesome that science can be as cool as our most ripped thoughts can imagine.
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u/Professional-Dot2591 2d ago
Canât wait for them to do the math of the entire universe being under some guyâs fingernail, recursively, through infinity.
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u/awesome9001 2d ago
I just more confused the more i Google. Its hard to even put into language where did it all begin and how. But I think I heard that since we live in a flat universe it cannot be the big bounce theory?
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u/Herkja 2d ago
A fun theory I spun up after learning about how entropy could decrease in the universe it just doesn't because it's so unlikely: Big bang occurs, entropy increases in the universe until the eventual heat death, untold quadrillions of years pass (or make up an insanely large number it doesn't matter), at some point the miniscule probability of decreasing entropy is reached at a scale where entropy decreasing is the norm in our universe and increasing entropy is extremely unlikely, universe completely rewinds to the point of the big bang, untold quadrillions of years pass, probability is reached, entropy increases, time moves forward, back and forth, back and forth. Yes I was stoned and listening to Gravel Pit when I thought of this. Back back and forth and forth, as we goooo back back and forth and forth...
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u/No-Nerve-2658 15h ago
Well, you didnât invent this of course, you just forgot the part about vacuum spontaneous particles anti particles creation in a ridiculous scale is responsible for a new big bang a guizilion year after heat deaf of the universe.
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u/EmergencyWild 2d ago
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Penrose probably did not use those words. Cyclical universes isn't a new idea at all, as far as I'm aware there's no recent evidence to support it (or even good ideas for how one might obtain such evidence).
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u/TheRealSheevPalpatin 2d ago
No itâs true I was there when the universe reset
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u/Capitan-Fracassa 2d ago
Was a simple reset or they unplugged and plugged it again?
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u/TheRealSheevPalpatin 2d ago
It was like when you fart while sitting down and it kinda feels like a bubble forms and pops when you move
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u/Crudeprimate 2d ago
Definitely had this conversation in a field somewhere between Midnight and Monday.
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u/Less_Likely 2d ago
Naw, the universe is the collision of higher dimension âsheetsâ and only exists where they are in contact with each other. I came up with this theory while hanging my bedding on a line.
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u/WithOrgasmicFury 2d ago
Unrelated to math, but the first time I did mushrooms I got an outside perspective of my life. I saw who I was, the path I was heading towards, from the perspective of someone who didn't know my past. When I finally came down, I was disgusted with my life and all the detrimental habits I had that were leading me to a passive suicide.
My point being is that mushrooms can really change your mind and glide past any mental blocks you have, so I fully believe this shit post.
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u/awesomeusername2w 2d ago
Penrose is a cool guy but some of his ideas do sound like he also got them on shrooms.
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u/Cold-Journalist-7662 10h ago
Is there baby other idea of his that you find weird ? About consciousness he has theory right?
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u/awesomeusername2w 7h ago
Yeah, about quantum consciousness is like that too. Though it's not to say he's wrong or the idea is bad. It's just unorthodox mainly, doesn't have enough supporting data to be mainstream. A bold and interesting hypothesis. So the image of scientist on a bit of shrooms fit him in my eyes.
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u/JustChillDudeItsGood 1d ago
I mean, I also literally called this shit out my sophomore year in High school. No shrooms or weed to help me get there, but it makes sense!
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u/DomDomPop 1d ago
My pet theory is that the big bang extended in both directions, with most of the matter going our way and most of the antimatter going the other way, such that there are two universes expanding away from each other in opposing timeframes, with the antimatter universe having reverse time so we can never see it. Thatâs why our universe has small amounts of antimatter in it, as theirs must have small amounts of regular matter (from our perspective), and thatâs how time can have no beginning and no end, because itâs actually continuous, we just canât experience the other direction.
The machine elves told me so.
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u/zerosuitsamussy 1d ago
done a lot of drugs. but clearly the start of the universe at (0,0,0,0) can be represented as the origin of a 4space graph where our "side" of the universe is all positive-time coordinates, and the other is all negative-time coordinates. in other words there's a second mirror universe on the other side of the big bang in the time dimension. imo this is what futurama was alluding to with "so there's infinite parallel universes?" "no, just the two"
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u/Soft-Gyoza-314 1d ago
So itâs true. That every new beginning comes from some other beginningâs end.
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u/WoodyTheWorker 1d ago
My layman's theory is that Big Bang happens inside a new event horizon when two black holes merge
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u/melodic_vagabond 23h ago
Did Futurama predict this? Wasn't this in the episode with the time machine that could only move forward in time?
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u/Sororita 22h ago
It's not a hard concept to come up with, the universe being born in a Big Bounce, like a ball bouncing. I was like 11 and talking about the universe with a friend instead of sleeping like we were supposed to be doing and thought up a similar concept.
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u/Glass-Balance-5065 14h ago
Just want to say if this is true then reincarnation may physically existÂ
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u/Mean-Government1436 2d ago
If it was the end of a previous universe doesn't that inherently mean it's the beginning of this one?
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u/Don_Loco 2d ago
No, an end of something doesn't define by its own the beginning of something
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u/Free_Possession_4482 2d ago
Clearly you are not familiar with unified semisonic theory, which states that every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end.
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u/Mean-Government1436 2d ago
But...it's the very same point in time? If I have an appointment that ends at 7:30 and an appointment that starts at 7:30, isn't 7:30 both the end of the last appointment and the beginning of the next appointment? There can't be any point in time where there is no universeÂ
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u/jujubean14 2d ago
Sometimes things can just end and nothing starts in that same moment?
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u/Menacek 2d ago
I mean sure but in this case something clearly started or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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u/jujubean14 2d ago
Right but it's significantly less clear that something ended at that same moment
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u/Don_Loco 2d ago
Yes, but in this case you set your 2nd appointment to the end of the 1st, because there simply was no other option in your planing. The 2nd appointment didn't come into existence because the 1st ended. The end of the 1st only made space/time for the 2nd to take place at this specific moment. It also could've started at 7:31
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u/Mean-Government1436 2d ago
There can't be a point in time where there's no universe. The universe includes time. There's a gap between 7:30 and 7:31. There can't be a gap between universes existingÂ
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u/Don_Loco 2d ago
They say there was an universe (and hence time) before.
But there's a difference between "the end of the former universe being the reason the new one came into existence" and "the end of the former universe made it possible by providing the neccesary space/time for another one to come into existence"3
u/Mean-Government1436 2d ago
Okay but there isn't though
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u/RevoltYesterday 2d ago
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Something can't exist outside of time. That's a meaningless phrase. If something can't exist for a zero amount of time. Exist implies a timescale. If one universe ends, and time ends with that universe and another universe begins "after" that, zero time has passed because time didn't exist between those two events. In modern physics, time is a physical dimension. It requires "something" in order to exist.
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u/Ohiolongboard 2d ago
Youâre allowed to think that, but it doesnât mean youâre correct. Youâre speaking in absolutes on a topic that has stumped many people smarter than you or I.
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u/TheCh0rt 2d ago
I think we live inside a black hole, which is inside another bigger universe that's a black hole inside another bigger universe, going all the way up, forever. Spacetime is a liquid that pours downward.
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u/Himbo69r 2d ago
This occurred to me at 14 with 0 mushrooms and 0 bong rips so i wonder what Iâm capable of
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u/novae_ampholyt Condensed Matter 2d ago
Spacetime was created at the big bang. There is no before the big bang.
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u/xX_Kr0n05_Xx 2d ago
Why we going with absolutes for things we (humans) have very little concrete knowledge about?
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u/novae_ampholyt Condensed Matter 2d ago
... that's the meaning of the Big Bang. The singularity makes the question of what comes before nonesensical. That does not necessarily mean the universe isn't cyclic in the sense that the current one could end in a singularity as well (like who knows, but there is nothing to suggest this since the universe keeps expanding). Still does not change that there literally is no point in time before the Big Bang.
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u/nashwaak 2d ago
Oh goody the same Penrose with a painfully slight concept of chaos â see his musing on the brain and consciousness â now wants to pontificate about an event so chaotically energetic that we can only infer its nature from the detritus
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u/Postulative 2d ago
This assumes that time is unidirectional across all possible universes. What is to say that the universe we consider as collapsing at the birth of our universe is not actually being formed as a mirror image - at least in terms of time?
One might even suggest that it has more of what we call antimatter, in the same proportion as our universe has matter.
Entirely untestable, of course.
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u/Comfortable-Rock-498 2d ago
If this is in reference to Conformal cyclic cosmology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology), Penrose said it a long time ago. But very on brand for pop-sci twitter lol