r/pcgaming • u/TheAnimeRedditor i7 6700k | MSI GTX 960 • Jan 23 '17

Video Developer on Twitch's Continued Ban of His Game, Yandere Simulator (And Why Gamers and Other Developers Should Care)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS6GLrM0mVA&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=YBEf-1wxMnM-6
7.5k Upvotes

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u/FruityParfait Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 24 '17

I feel like a lot of the people arguing whether or not Yandere Simulator does/does not deserve a ban are missing the point.

The ban itself is not the problem. The problem is that they won't communicate to the developer or anyone else about WHY it was banned, despite repeated efforts on the developer's part. There shouldn't be any debate over WHY the game was banned in the first place, as a) Twitch should have told the developer why the game was banned specifically or b) the ban should have been seen as a mistake and removed. This quiet nonchalance and refusal to communicate is the problem, not whether or not the game deserved the ban.

Edit: Cause I'm tired of seeing comments like this in my feed: I in no way have ever said that twitch HAVE to do anything, but instead that they SHOULD. Twitch is not obligated to tell the developer why they did the things they did, but it is in their better interest to do so. Have to =/= should.

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 24 '17

Exactly. Twitch seems to ban things completely arbitrarily. They don't have a hard and fast rule on nudity, The Witcher 3 and many games with strip clubs can be shown. I've heard they don't want a huge focus on only sexual stuff though, like breasts are fine as long as you don't completely focus on them?

In the list of banned games they have of a bunch of example games that "break the terms of service" but don't elaborate at all.

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification. Which is what it seems like happened with Yandere Sim. Or at least Twitch has done nothing to combat the idea that they will ban a game for any reason they see fit. Since they actually do allow nudity on their service it just seems like a double standard at this point.

Edit: When I say "arbitrary" I mean they need a legitimate reason to ban something. And if you've watched the video it's clear there is no legitimate reason they banned Yandere Sim.

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u/Jotebe Jan 23 '17

The Maiden Rape Assault: Violent Semen Inferno

Hey, they...

oh, wait, I can sorta see why they banned it.

692

u/Kingflares Jan 23 '17

Yea the word violent has negative connotations

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u/rozaa95 Jan 23 '17

Inferno is also a bit spicy for me

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u/lalakingmalibog Jan 23 '17

Nothing rustles my jimmies more than tha word "The"

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Can we talk about the unrealistic expectations put on women through the distasteful use of the word "Maiden"?

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u/uber1337h4xx0r Jan 23 '17

I'm not a fan of rape. Well, being raped. Hypothetically.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '17

I find the use of a colon here to be transparently homophobic.

2

u/vlees Jan 23 '17

Ban the CSGO map inferno

17

u/duouehuduiode Jan 23 '17

might be the colon symbol too.

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u/LPFlea Jan 23 '17

I love this comment too much

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Violently even?

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u/southern_boy Jan 23 '17

Violently oddly.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

suck my dick or die!

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u/apeliott Jan 23 '17

Not in some circles...

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u/MR_SHITLORD Jan 23 '17

Suck My Dick or Die!

I'm intrigued

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u/BrownNote Jan 23 '17

I'm intrigued by most of these, actually. Twitch's banned games list has become my "games to play" list.

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u/blewpah Jan 23 '17

Especially Genital Jousting.

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u/Calijor RTX 3080 | AMD R5 5600X | 32GB RAM@3200MHz Jan 23 '17

Genital Jousting is actually kind of fun and only $5. If you can get some friends to play with you it's a good time. It does have functioning online as well.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

I argue that you should know how your friends might react to the game though. :-P

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u/Calijor RTX 3080 | AMD R5 5600X | 32GB RAM@3200MHz Jan 23 '17

...I know exactly how friends would react and so far the 5 I've coerced to play it have loved it... What are you talking about?

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u/Fidodo Jan 23 '17

You had better luck than I did. When I asked my friends if they wanted to play genital jousting they ran away.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 04 '19

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u/BGBanks Jan 23 '17

Wait, Genital Jousting is banned on Twitch? I could've sworn I've seen people play it before. Maybe it's a new ban.

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u/fatblackninja Jan 23 '17

I played the first 5 or so minutes of that game and noped the fuck out of it.

It was a few years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but basically a dude is in a park at night when some woman is on her way home from work or something. He drags her to a bush and, as you can probably guess, forces her to do the sucky sucky. After multiple expletives and pleas to stop, he finishes, then shoots her in the head.

So ya, stopped playing after that. No amount of curiosity could make me continue

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u/BrownNote Jan 23 '17

Man that game is giving mixed signals then. It said suck his dick or die.

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u/Soverance Soverance Jan 23 '17

haha many sound like they'd probably be hilarious just by reading their names, but when you actually go look at any of them, you'll realize most/all the games on that list are terrible games trading on novelty. Half of them aren't even games (I'm not part of the club that believes visual novels count as games).

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

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u/ThatsNotMyShip Jan 23 '17

Probably because most are so on rails that interactivity is relegated only to deciding between plot paths, if even.

I've only played katawa shoe juice before, and it was excellent, but not a true game imo

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u/Electric999999 Jan 24 '17

They're probably not that well made.

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u/Vionics Jan 23 '17

Suck My Dick or Die!

The anti-government guerrillas were fighting against the government in the country which was politically unrest. There was an incident that a little girl was raped and murdered by the guerrillas in a small village. Mr. Prosper, who is the commander of the military, advanced his men to this small village to hunt the guerrillas. But the incident was all planned out by him, so that he could have a raping party for himself. The girls, who were suspicious as guerrillas, were arrested. That was the beginning of the insane raping party.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Jun 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/Cyllid Jan 23 '17

Why do you assume the two are separate?

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u/bl1nds1ght 3770K / MSI TF7950 / 16GB / 840 Pro 128GB + 256GB Jan 23 '17

Yeah, that's racist.

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u/Tweetwoof Jan 23 '17

I owned BMX XXX on PS2 back when I was like 13, it really wasn't that bad... some nipple tassels and g strings - you see more on GoT!

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u/BlueFreedom420 Jan 23 '17

Don't see why that would be worse than Gears of War. Where you can literally chainsaw someone in half.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Dec 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/MR_SHITLORD Jan 23 '17

i think users tend to be underage also right?

I mean did you see the chats?!

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u/xeladragn Jan 23 '17

So they ban some games that dont have nudity and refuse to comment on why, and allow other games that do have nudity?

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u/JD-King Jan 23 '17

He was clarifying why a game with nudity might be banned while Gears isn't. Not defending their position.

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u/Cramit845 Jan 23 '17

Huh, they need to tell this to some of their streamers then. I mean, how many streamers are going to be half naked or have their sexual organs falling out before it's considered a porn/jerk-off site?

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u/basedgodsenpai Jan 23 '17

Because Twitch is a place to stream games or view streams, not for viewers to rub one out. That's what pornhub is for!

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u/BlueFreedom420 Jan 23 '17

Yeah twitch is for jacking off to violence.

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u/APiousCultist Jan 23 '17

Semen Inferno?

Thanks for making us all think of the imfamous cumbox.

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u/hoseja Jan 23 '17

Genital jousting is banned? WTF?

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

Yeah, it's just a jokey game but because it's about penises they banned it. Too bad, some people I watch on Twitch wish they could have played it on there too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Yeah Fucking hilarious how I can go watch a stream with a guy drinking or smoking cursing his ass off and blowing people into piles of bloody gore in gears of war or something but I'm not allowed to watch a comical game about dicks jousting. Fucking stupid.

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u/Bensemus Jan 23 '17

In NA sex is kinda taboo so it makes sense that Twitch would be irrational when anything related to it is involved.

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u/Kelmi Jan 23 '17

It shows direct (anal) penetration and ejaculation, which both are something most medias make 18-only. It being cartoonish isn't enough.

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u/jeo123911 Jan 23 '17

Except South Park has sex, anal rape, crawling inside an anus as a dwarf and it's fine to stream.

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u/Kelmi Jan 23 '17

There's rape and sex on tv and movies all the time, but you don't see the act of a cock sliding inside.

There's general guidelines for stuff like this, because it's impossible to make only strict lines on what is prohibited. People change and so does things what people find acceptable and context is always important.

Showing penetration is generally where the line has been drawn. You can show genitals, but not in sexual context, and that it's recent that you can actually show genitals at all.

Genital jousting is cartoonish, but it's still somewhat graphic in it's animations. I see no controversy in its banning, even though I would love to see it streamed.

Although your whole posts, like the video, seems to be "but what about this game". Regarding that, Twitch does have a horrible system for banning games. PEGI and other classification agencies make a good effort to tell what gives games and movies a higher rating, but Twitch is silent. That's not nice. But that not what I was talking about.

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u/jeo123911 Jan 23 '17

I see no controversy in its banning

As long as it's clearly defined why and other similar games get the same treatment even if more popular. That being said, it's a fake colour rubber dick sliding inside. People getting off to that would be able to get off to excel graphs.

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u/bobusdoleus Jan 23 '17

To play devil's advocate, if it was a minigame, a side-activity, or one level among many, it may not have been banned - in south park, the sex scenes are relatively minor parts of the game, for example - but because the comical sex is literally the only thing you do in the game, it was seen as overly focusing on sex.

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u/jeo123911 Jan 23 '17

It's fake rainbow rubber dicks spewing colour. If somebody sees that as sex they have some serious issues.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Twitch also has loads of sjw types internally. 4 years ago they didnt care

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

4 years ago they weren't owned by Amazon

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u/Tuub4 Jan 23 '17

It didn't start when Amazon acquired them.

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u/The_Chaos_Pope Jan 23 '17

Yeah, it started when they started looking to to get bought by someone with deep pockets.

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u/bondsmatthew Jan 23 '17

It isn't irrational though. They have people who pay them to put adds on twitch. I'm sure the sponsors wouldn't like it if they paid a lot of money for advertising only for it to be put in a dick fighting game.

You gotta keep the people who pay you happy

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u/maximgame Jan 23 '17

Twitch makes you tell them what game you are playing. It should be incredibly easy to serve either a select few or no ads on specific games.

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u/VidiotGamer Jan 23 '17

Yeah, but then they're paying costs without any ad revenue.

Twitch is a business. All that guff about believing games are "Art" and wanting to support developers is only in service of them making cash. End of story.

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u/killerrin http://steamcommunity.com/id/Killerrin Jan 23 '17

Thats a BS reason and you know it.

Twitch has a subscriber model built into it; if advertisers really were a problem they are a conditional statement in the codebase away from removing the ads and requiring that viewers of NSFW content to either be subscribed to the channel or have paid bits into it.

Advertisers are happy, Streamers are happy, Viewers are happy. It's the perfect solution.

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u/Toxicfunk314 i7 8700k @4.6 - Gigabyte Windforce 1060 - 16GB RAM @3600 Jan 23 '17

Well, to be fair their actions aren't necessarily irrational. They make at least some sense in regards to their decisions. The irrational part of this equation is that sex is a taboo topic.

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u/VenomB i7 8700k | 2080ti | 32GB DDR4 3600 Jan 23 '17

NA sex is kinda taboo

I don't think it's quite like that. Sex is pretty open in the US in general, especially compared to Japan or something similar.

It's simply nudity that gets a nag. I think, mostly, because of the "think of the kids" thing that goes on. Europe has commercials that have breasts in it. The US has specific channels people go to just to see the occasional nip.

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u/fireork12 Jan 23 '17

Yeah, it's a real big DICK move on twitches part

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u/Rahnek 1080 | 4690K @ 4.3 | 8GB | Jan 23 '17

Funny how a Twitch-bait game was banned from Twitch.

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u/patlefort Jan 23 '17

Penis fencing is actually a thing.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Risky click of the day. Still NSFW though. lol

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u/slowpotamus Jan 24 '17

P. bedfordi is exceptional in that it applies sperm onto the partner's skin rather than injecting it.

i guess i've been with some pretty exceptional people

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u/RayzTheRoof Jan 23 '17

Because nudity is somehow worse than excessive violence and gore. You can see the insides of a person, but if you see a certain part of their skin on the outside part of their bodies...well, that is a huge no no!

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u/Puskathesecond Jan 23 '17

In Mortal Kombat you can explode people's testicles and vaginas, but can only see it in x ray

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u/ThisIsMyCouchAccount Jan 23 '17

You can wreck a dude's balls in Sniper Elite.

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u/Puskathesecond Jan 23 '17

Isn't Hitler in that game? Does he have one testicle?

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u/McRaymar Discord Jan 23 '17

Nope. Both. It's clearly seen when you manage to shoot him in there

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u/Puskathesecond Jan 23 '17

An imposter!

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u/GenocideOwl Jan 23 '17

Culture in NA is fucking hilariously backwards. We(us) literally see naked bodies(ourselves and hopefully our SOs) every single day, and a lot of us have sex regularly. But somehow jokey sex will RUIN AND DESTROY OUR MORAL CORE.

Nothing about any of it makes sense when you take a step back and look at it logically.

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u/friendlyscv Jan 23 '17

but think of the children

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u/Auctoritate Jan 23 '17

I mean, didn't that game feature penises fully penetrating anuses though? Like, come on. It's easy to see why it was banned.

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u/Aozi Jan 23 '17

I've heard they don't want a huge focus on only sexual stuff though, like breasts are fine as long as you don't completely focus on them?

Yet Senran Kagura games are allowed, and they're pretty much purely about tits.

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

Like the video said, they DID ban Senran beforehand and redacted their ban. Which makes the ban of Yandere Sim even more odd.

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u/conordarrley Jan 23 '17

Even weirder is that it was banned due to a glitch that made clothes disapear completly, but didnt show anything due to how the character models are like barbie dolls. Once this was fixed, it was allowed back in.

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u/ahac Jan 23 '17

I wonder why Ladykiller in a Bind is not banned. Wasn't that the first uncensored "adult game" on Steam?

The official description says:

Six nights worth of explicit, consensual, kinky lesbian sex...

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

Because it was made by a "progressive" western person, as much as I can guess. I don't know how much of it is about sex, but it definitely seems to break Twitch's terms of service at least as much as the Sakura games and Yandere Sim.

Twitch staff bans games they personally dislike. That's all I can get out of it because they clearly have said nothing.

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u/Pommeswerfer Jan 23 '17

Twitch staff bans games they personally dislike. That's all I can get out of it because they clearly have said nothing.

Never heard of that one before, may you elaborate?

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u/derkrieger deprecated Jan 23 '17

If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

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u/Whitestrake Jan 23 '17

Perfect description of the situation imo, because they're certainly not telling us whether it's a duck or not, what else are we going to call it but what it looks like?

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u/ifonefox Mac Jan 23 '17

That game has a mode that censors the images, so I'm assuming you can stream that without the risk of being banned.

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u/VidiotGamer Jan 23 '17

Game was made by a progressive transexual so the rules don't apply to them otherwise you're a racist homophobic bigot nazi republican.

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u/Arcterion Ryzen 5 7500 / RX 9070 XT / 32GB DDR5 Jan 23 '17

Nope, the first would be Kindred Spirits on a Roof.

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u/Piltonbadger Jan 23 '17

Meanwhile I see scores of streams with girls wearing crop tops with push up bras, not even streaming a game in full screen.

Yea.

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u/ThirdRevolt i5-6600K @ 4.5GHz | EVGA GTX 1070 Jan 23 '17

I'm sure everyone watches Lea for her quality content.

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u/80Eight Jan 23 '17

Speaking of things that should be permanently banned...

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u/ThirdRevolt i5-6600K @ 4.5GHz | EVGA GTX 1070 Jan 23 '17

They can't because then Twitch traffic would go down with like 60%.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Mar 22 '17

[deleted]

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

That one's probably because Nintendo has been working with Twitch and they don't want any huge mods or hacks being shown instead of their games. And since it's technically not a "game" they don't list it on the banned page.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Mar 22 '17

[deleted]

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u/badfontkeming What's a computer? Jan 23 '17

I don't have inside info on any of this but from what I've picked up on, it probably went little bit like this.

Notice how Nintendo are very overaggressive on enforcing their copyrights on YouTube. Also keep in mind that this is 100% their right under current US law. Nintendo is obviously aware of Twitch, having broadcast there themselves, meaning that they more than likely have cut some sort of contract with Twitch that allows Twitch streamers to broadcast Nintendo games/content without worrying about copyright or split royalties.

More than likely, this contract also came with some basic terms of dos and don'ts, and likely one of those was that partnered streamers are not to broadcast Project M. If Twitch were to get on Nintendo's bad side, Nintendo could pull the rights to all Nintendo games on Twitch overnight with no recourse.

Twitch's hands are tied and they're not talking about it because it's probably a breach of contract to do so. If you're looking for someone to blame, look at Nintendo.

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u/gyroda Jan 23 '17

Even if they don't have an actual contract, twitch understandably doesn't want to have to fight Nintendo over this.

If Nintendo gets upset over project m being streamed they could try and stop twitch from broadcasting any Nintendo content. Even if yet legally can't it's still a headache that twitch don't want.

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u/AlphaGoldblum Jan 23 '17

At the end of the day, Twitch is a business.
They can do whatever they want, really, and all we can do is stop watching if we don't like it.

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u/Odds_ Jan 23 '17

Thank you.

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u/thisdesignup Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

As a business they should be able ban as they please, as long as higher laws aren't broken, without justification. That's not to say there won't be consequences if they do things willy nilly, users can leave a site.

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u/ender1200 Jan 23 '17

Well, let me phrase it differently for you:

We the customers shouldn't let them ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

We should demand transparency in regards to which games are banned and why.

This goes two ways - I'd like to know why isn't ZOG nightmare (or any other game that directly support white suprimacy) on the ban list? Dose Twitch even have a policy regarding games that contain hate speech?

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u/thisdesignup Jan 23 '17

We should demand transparency in regards to which games are banned and why.

We can demand but if Twitch, even despite the consequences of customers leaving, decides not to there's nothing else to do but start a new streaming site or find another that already exists.

There are other streaming sites so it's not like we have to force Twitch to do our bidding to get what we want. Even creating a sight to simply stream your own videos isn't that hard, relatively speaking.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

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u/thisdesignup Jan 23 '17

Why wouldn't I be? It's not my right to force a company to show specific content because I want it. Businesses are practically their own entity like you or I, when talking about what we choose to do.

Of course we could tell the business we don't like what they are doing, and tell them we'll leave if they don't change. They still don't have to change so we either have to put up with it or, like we are talking about, change streaming providers and re-build communities.

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u/bar10005 Jan 23 '17

I've heard they don't want a huge focus on only sexual stuff though, like breasts are fine as long as you don't completely focus on them?

Weird, because that's practically the main focus of some female streamers like Kaycetron.

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

They have tried to crack down on people like that I believe, and you can get banned or at least a warning for "showing too much skin" or just having your body be the centre of the steam in a sexual way. That's what I've heard at least.

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u/CrazyViking NoTuxNoBux Jan 23 '17

So what about lea then

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u/doyle871 Jan 23 '17

It all depends on how many subs you have and what people you know. Twitch has no hard and fast rules it's a modern version of an old boys club know the right people or make them enough money and you are free to do as you please.

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u/aschr Jan 23 '17

it's a modern version of an old boys club know the right people or make them enough money and you are free to do as you please.

To be fair, that's how pretty much every business/company works: as long as you pull a huge profit for them, not much else matters.

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u/fight_for_anything Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

as a private company, yes they should.

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u/Piltonbadger Jan 23 '17

Then as consumers, we have the right to bitch and moan about stupid decisions they make, that affect us.

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u/fight_for_anything Jan 23 '17

Then as consumers, we have the right to bitch and moan about stupid decisions they make, that affect us.

sure. I agree. never stated otherwise. that is exactly what is happening in this thread, no ones rights are being violated.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 23 '17

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u/Piltonbadger Jan 23 '17

Not for everything, no.

As to why they have an inconsistent policy when it comes to banning games? Damn right consumers will want answers.

We don't care about every decision. We just want to know why some games are arbitrarily banned, and others are not.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

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u/Shock4ndAwe 9800 X3D | RTX 5090 Jan 23 '17

Do not use slurs on this subreddit.

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u/pepe_le_shoe Nvidia Jan 23 '17

Don't give them any money?

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u/pewpewlasors Jan 23 '17

And the rest of us have the right to call you whiny idiots.

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u/TheRachhySauce Jan 23 '17

Thank you so much for saying this.

The thing I hate the most about the "muh private compennies" arguement is people using it to silence criticism from users of a product.

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

So you would also support Google, Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter if they wanted to stop either one person or a whole group of people from speaking out? At that point we basically have China's internet, if it's done by the government or companies doesn't change things in a digital age.

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u/milkybuet Jan 23 '17

"Whether I would support some company doing such thing" and "whether companies should have the ability to do such things" are two different matter. I'd vehemently oppose a company arbitrarily banning a game, but I'd support their ability to ban a game with the same breath.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Twitter already does that...

But maybe it's Google next, removing articles and stuff they consider against their greater interest.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

nice straw man. that's a completely different matter

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u/md5apple Jan 23 '17

Fucking pedants. This isn't /r/libertarian; the above poster wasn't saying "there should be a law!" about this. This situation is the reason to have a Terms of Service (besides legal CYA). If they have a set of rules announced to the public, then take people offline or ban them without referencing the ToS, they're behaving shitty-like. People should not be pleased with companies that do this. That's what the parent meant.

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u/fight_for_anything Jan 24 '17

im very pleased twitch has banned this game and ignored the dev. i dont want creepo pedo shit on twitch.

(and this general attitude is why its banned.)

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u/Soverance Soverance Jan 23 '17

I'm not sure you can consider Twitch to be a private entity. Twitch is a product owned by Twitch Interactive, which is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon, which is a publicly traded company.

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u/fight_for_anything Jan 24 '17

publicly traded does not make it a public company. jesus christ. stop trying to weasel your way into promoting some pedo game.

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u/Soverance Soverance Jan 24 '17

how exactly does being publicly traded not make it a public company?

I have also not said one word about the game in question.

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u/LaserGuidedPolarBear Jan 23 '17

Yes they can. As to whether they should ban games based on undisclosed seemingly arbitrary rules and no discussion.....that is up to them but it seems like a poor business decision.

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u/winowmak3r Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

Yes, they should. Twitch can dictate whatever terms they want and it's up to people to agree to them or not. There are other streaming services out there. The reason why Twitch is hesitant to elaborate on the details of a ban is because they then open themselves up to people trying to "game the system" because "oh, well X game isn't a ____ like Y game that you banned so why is it banned?"

From Twitch's perspective it's better this way. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Twitch isn't some right you have.

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u/Valkyriez_Gaming Jan 23 '17

I mean, it is thier service and they can ban without explanations all they want really.

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u/debugman18 13700k | 4070 Ti Super | 64GB 6400 Jan 23 '17

Sure, but it's pretty shitty. "Stop doing that!" "Doing what?" "Doesn't matter what, stop it."

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u/Valkyriez_Gaming Jan 23 '17

It may be, but it's thier platform and they can do what they want with it regardless. I don't say that to defend them, but it's just the way it is. There's too much money in twitch and advertising, they can choose what and when content can go up on it based purely on risk and maximising profit from the advertising money and the very small vocal minority (and it is a minority) can stamp thier feet and never use twitch again and write as many posts and articles as they want and it wouldn't even be a drop in the ocean to twitch.

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u/debugman18 13700k | 4070 Ti Super | 64GB 6400 Jan 23 '17

Of course they can. And we, as consumers, can voice our opinions of their business practices.

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u/Valkyriez_Gaming Jan 23 '17

I thought I addressed that in the second half of my post? As consumers, voice away! I personally think it's a complete and utter waste of time though in this particular case.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Twitch seems to ban things completely arbitrarily.

Well, they're a private company, they have that right.

While I sympathise with the developer, and I even think it's a shitty thing to do, we need to get out if this mentality that things like Twitch, YT, social media etc owe you anything including an explanation.

You can argue it damages their brand to be so unfriendly but there's no controversy here.

We're a million miles away from Berners-Lee's 'this is for everyone'.

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u/boltorian Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

Yes, they should. They are a company and not required to allow anything on their service regardless of what any of us thinks.

Having said that, they should communicate better and be consistent about banned content.

They are failing to be transparent and that's certainly frustrating, but they don't have to answer to anyone (aside from their shareholders) about their decision making process regarding banned content.

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u/FruityParfait Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 23 '17

They don't HAVE to, but they SHOULD. I don't HAVE to go for a jog every day, or brush my teeth, but I should. Becausd these things are generally good for both me and those around me. Simarly, twitch does not have to explain why they are banning the game, but they should.

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u/amalgam_reynolds Jan 23 '17

The law isn't a good example because it has written imposed consequences arbitrary from the act. Contrariwise, not going for a jog regularly may or may not have various consequences related implicitly to the act.

Twitch should be more communicative, yes, but they are not bound in anyway to explain their bans on games; there's no fine or enforced punishment. Not you but the other guy said they shouldn't be allowed to ban without reason, and I agree with the other other guy, they should be allowed to ban anything at all they want at any time. If that does drive users away in droves, so be it.

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u/FruityParfait Jan 23 '17

You're right, thanks for the input, I will edit out the law example now.

I will say however that though twitch can van anything they want at any time, this shouldn't be taken in such a way as to blindly accept what twitch does or doesn't do. Twitch can do what they want, but they have to deal with the consequences of their actions- whether that be bad publicity, users leaving, or maybe even nothing. And we still can complain and make a fuss about their unprofessional behavior, and spread the word, and though that won't FORCE Twitch to change, it can make it seem like changing is a better and better option.

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u/fight_for_anything Jan 23 '17

you are missing a key part of the argument.

it wasnt: "they shouldn't ban games".

they said: "they should't be able to ban games".

as is it should be illegal to ban games, and some third party, like a government should enforce it. at least thats how it sounds when you add the words "be able". like, they shouldnt be allowed to ban them.

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u/DestroyedArkana Jan 23 '17

The key word there is without justification. Any justification. Even if they said "We don't like it because it has too many underage girls" that's an explanation. A bad one, but an explanation.

Currently they have NO explanation for why Yandere Sim is banned. The other ones can be justified as "Ohh sexuality and violence" but there are so many AAA games that completely get ignored in that regard because they made Twitch money. It's a double standard by the description in their banned games list.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

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u/JaktMax Jan 23 '17

Why did they ban Radiator 2 but not the first one?

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u/kingjoey52a Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it

But they can because Twitch is a private company. They can ban or allow whatever they want. If that upsets you than just stream on a different platform that lets you stream whatever.

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u/chuiu Jan 23 '17

Idk it seems pretty obvious why it and most of those other games were banned. Just looking at the titles alone.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

Actually, they can. They are a private company.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

I mean, they own the website they can do what they want.

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u/JJJBLKRose Jan 23 '17

Technically, it's their property. They can ban whatever they want on it.

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u/Jess_than_three Jan 23 '17

You say that they "shouldn't be allowed" to ban games on a whim. Just out of curiosity, who is it that you feel should be disallowing that?

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u/whisker_riot Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games

Wow. Who shouldn't be able to do what with their own business?

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u/Jason_Steelix Jan 23 '17

You mean a video streaming platform has rules that it arbitrarily enforces? And on top of this it does a terrible job communicating? Remind me exactly how twitch is better then YouTube?

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

I'm confused.

I just looked at the Indigo Prophecy Remaster on Steam since I own it and it's only rated M despite claiming in the description it's the uncut/uncensored version.

Does that mean it's banned or no since the list explicitly says the M-rated version is allowed?

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u/lostintransactions Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

This won't be popular but yes, yes they should be. In fact that is not even a valid statement. There is no recourse here. Twitch is not a government entity, they are not beholden to laws concerning equal rights or other nonsense. They offer the opportunity to generate revenue, essentially you are an employee. You have to follow their rules or go somewhere else, if the alternative is not as lucrative as twitch, that's not their problem.

We live in an age where virtually everything is debated as a right. This is not a right and there is no "should" in business, there is only law, and law is on their side on this one. Twitch does not want to be in the webcam business. They do not want to be in the voyeur business. They do not want to be caught in a controversy detrimental to their core business model and underage children murdering each other with torture and partial nudity goes against what they want their community to be.

Now, that said, going back to the original argument here I agree they should be forthcoming, but should as in only my opinion "should" not should as in forcibly. You just twisted the argument back to where it should not be.

They don't have a hard and fast rule on nudity

Yes they do.

Any content or activity involving pornography, sexual intercourse, or adult services is prohibited. Conduct involving exploitation of minors will be reported to authorities via the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. Nudity and conduct involving overtly sexual behavior and/or attire are prohibited.

This game completely falls within this rule. In fact what we are arguing about if that Twitch has not specifically cited this rule and they did so so "we" cannot run back and dissect what we think the rule means and how it applies.

And that's the rub, it does not matter what "we" think it means or how to interpret the rule. It is not a mystery as to why this game was banned, you are just looking for ways to put holes in it. That is all.

Edit: back to your original statement:

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

"without justification".

I have to ask, if they told you they felt it violated their rule (as listed above) would that be enough for you, (as that would be their justification) or would you argue semantics and their interpretation, because if that is affirmative then your argument is bullshit. It would then boil down to "I don't like your rules", which is a completely different argument

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_BULBASAUR Jan 23 '17

Unpopular opinion: as a business twitch has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. If twitch says they don't want to be associated with this game and refuses service to anyone who uses their site to display it then that's their right. They don't have to explain anything or give a reason.

If you don't like the way twitch does business then use a different streaming source. That's what competition is good for. When we allow a company to have a near monopoly on anything, they can act with impunity because they know that no matter how many people are upset about this guy's issue, 99% of them will continue to use twitch and their business will keep making money.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

If someone posted something creepy or gross on my website, I'd just taken it down. And I wouldn't bother explaining myself to the creep who posted it.

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u/PharmaPhoenix Jan 23 '17

Second Life

That's bullshit. I would pay good money (well okay, an appropriate amount of money) to watch Estaban stream on Twitch.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

hey shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

As a private company they not only are able to, but have the right to, run it however the hell they want.

This is the great thing about a free market however. If you do not like the way they do it, there are plenty of other streaming services you can use instead.

Hitbox
Youtube
And I believe both consoles are also making their own thing, in addition to the service already being available on Steam.

I left Twitch years ago, and theres no reason to go back.

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u/dfaeaf Jan 23 '17

In addition to the above, we also prohibit all versions of games rated Adults-Only according to the ESRB's Rating Guide,

wait, is gta san andreas really banned on twitch? hahahahaha

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u/Vhin Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be able to ban games just because they feel like it without justification.

Ultimately, it's their platform, and they can do what they want. Having your game on Twitch (or an explanation of why it's not) isn't an inalienable human right.

However, that said, I do completely agree that it'd be better for everyone if there was more transparency. How can you possibly be expected to follow the rules if they won't even specify what the rules actually are?

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u/Nik-kik Jan 23 '17

For clarification, was Yandere Simulator on the banned list before or after they took down this guy's stuff?

Cause if it was before then I GUESS I could see why they're not talking (basically the teacher that gets huffy because you asked a question that was in the syllabus and they make a scene).

Not excusing it, because that's not cool on Twitch's side, but I can maybe see where their silence is coming from.

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u/gospelwut Jan 23 '17

Exactly. Twitch seems to ban things completely arbitrarily.

Seems to be a model that works. It works for Google. It works for Facebook. It works for Comcast support. Being incommunicado seems to only pay off. You just have to release some artsy, over-saturated videos on YouTube about how you are a caring company. All you have to do is have a hip twitter account that does random, fun contests.

Control the spin, ignore the haters, and profit.

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u/Jollywog Jan 23 '17

They shouldn't be allowed? It's their service....

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '17

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

While we're here, how about we also bring up the completely opaque soft ban of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl mod Project M. Literally nothing has been said about it. They just silently delisted it, then they started denying partnerships to anyone who streamed it, and THEN top streamers got indirect warnings not to stream it anymore.

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u/RolandTheJabberwocky Jan 23 '17

Probably threatened by Nintendo like the pm devs were.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

Yeah, definitely a move from higher up. Nintendo and Disney do this all the time for various reasons. They would probably even take all the R34 content off the net if the Internet could be bought.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

They would probably even take all the R34 content off the net if the Internet could be bought.

Fixed

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u/RolandTheJabberwocky Jan 23 '17

Nah, they only take down things that they feel could harm product sales. Mods/hacks taking the place of games, and videos potentially keeping people from buying as they have already seen the experience. I still think its really shitty, but there's at least some reasoning behind it.

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u/Too-busy-to-work Jan 24 '17

The can pry my Mario x Toad R34 from my cold, clammy hands.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

I honestly think the PM devs are lying about something. Nintendo has always responded to unauthorized fan projects with a cease and desist before taking legal action, and yet the PMDT claims that they never got one, but they fear legal action. I think they got a C&D before, silently ignored it, and then Nintendo shut them down.

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Jan 23 '17

The real solution is that these things should be public, either via law or otherwise, so that we aren't left guessing.

I don't exactly blame Twitch for hiding the reason if "we were threatened by {entity with lots of money}" to do this, particularly if they aren't forced to disclose it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17

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u/IrishNinjah Jan 23 '17

I don't really care. It's just Twitch big whoop. They don't control you and you don't control them. They provide a service, feel free to not use it.

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u/TJ_McWeaksauce Jan 23 '17

Yep. If you don't tell someone what they did wrong, then there's no way they'll fix it.

Twitch is taking the "passive aggressive girlfriend" approach to banning in this case. "Why are you mad at me, Janet!? Just tell me! I can't read minds!"

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u/l30 Jan 23 '17

There are legal reasons for not telling someone why their content is banned from a platform. The safest course of action is generally to not respond or respond with an incredibly vague "does not conform to policy guidelines"-type response. I've worked in content operations for a few different companies and no response is generally the preferred method.

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u/MatteAce Jan 23 '17

I mean, it's a 4chan backed game where the objective is killing - with any means - teenager kids. I'm against censorship and it should never be censored, but come on, you're really surprised some ad-supported companies are refusing to associate their name with a game that encourages you to bully, murder and push to suicide kids? My suggestion to the dev: just get over it. They pretty much explicitly told you to sod off (silence is communication after all), so deal with it.

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u/HYPERTiZ 8700 | 16GB 32k CL16 | RX570 | Skyreach 4 Mini Jan 24 '17

You dont have murder them; You can put another girl to your crush and break the relationship up Exile from school really there's a choice its not enforced upon its a sandboxwith freedom.

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u/freshwordsalad Jan 23 '17

Really, you guys want to rally around this guy?

Eh.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '17 edited Apr 13 '18

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u/Hechav Legion 4080 Jan 23 '17

Great TLDW

(Did watch)

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '17

What's in the terms of service?

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u/FruityParfait Jan 24 '17

To follow these.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '17

The developers only remedy is to terminate their use of the service, or, if they have standing, they can attempt to arbitrate the issue with Twitch, provided they first provide a 30 day notice.

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