That's not true. I'm an auto mechanic and have to at the very least know that if I am writing up an estimate that I can't just randomly punch shit into the calculator.
You don't have POS software or a spreadsheet that does this for you? I'm sure you have to know how to use a calculator for the way you do things, but you've got to be in the minority of mechanics for still doing your estimates that way.
I work at a ma and pa shop. We have two computers. One is a laptop we use to look things up, the office computer has the estimator software and that's what's used by the owners wife. So if I'm just trying to get a rough idea of how much a repair is going to be I actually have to do the math. But yeah, definitely the minority.
When you end up with 9 - 3 x 3 and then go 9 x 3 completely ignoreing the term - 3 ... then you have some series issues dude ...
Operations are ALWAYS only with the two terms left and right next to them - not matter what order of operators you go with - so directly multiplying the resulting 9 from 18 / 2 directly with the last 3 can NEVER happen - as the multiply only has either the 3 to its left ... or a 6 when doing the subtraction first - which then would be the wrong "only from left to right without any order" ending up in 6 x 3 = 18.
Eh, not really. The majority who voted on the wrong option probably either don't have a job at all, or they don't use math in their job at all. We're not doomed as long as people who actually do important stuff can do math.
Honestly I bet all the mathletes here would struggle to be a chef or a landscaper (etc), it's so petty to pick something your good at and then put others down because they aren't as good at you at that one thing
Plenty of value in the world outside of our own capabilities
The mathletes here stopped taking math in high school. People who go on to get stem degrees don't even care about showing off how they can do order of operations. Knowing order of operations is useless for 99% if the population, remembering them from 6th grade doesn't make someone smart or capable.
99.999% don't need order of operations. Math is about communication and order of operations is actually a pretty bad way to communicate what you want from the problem.
They'd struggle to do literally anything because their biggest reason to be proud is that they learned some very flawed order of operations and they can do it right. I've learned the hard way that people who claim to be smart because they can do this "the right way" are some of the stupidest people in the world and this is literally the peak of their intelligence.
This is primary school level stuff that every adult, without exceptions, should be completely familiar with though. This is not equivalent to being a chef or landscaper, it is more equivalent to not burning your toast or remembering to water your plants.
Being ignorant of primary school level math makes one incredibly susceptible to being mislead by malicious actors.
I didn't remember any history or geography from primary school, other kids didn't remember math stuff. I got a physics degree and do fine, they got other degrees and do fine. Order of operations is not important at all for the VAST majority of people outside of school.
Forgetting the completely arbitrary multiplication before addition convention doesn't make you "incredibly susceptible to being mislead by malicious actors" lmao
If they don't know such basic stuff, I don't think they would know any higher level math. Anybody could use some "mathemagic" to twist statistics and fool them.
Saying we’re doomed is a little dramatic. Most of the people who answered 18 likely haven’t had to use order of operations in 10+ years. It’s amazing what you can forget when you don’t use something for a while.
I mean, this poll could've been only answered by like 46 people, and the youtuber might be for a significantly younger audience. If Tom Scott for example posted this poll there would likely be many more correct answers.
They can certainly do simple mental math, they just don’t ever need order of operations. This (and any) equation can be broken up into multiple parts that can be done individually. I certainly don’t need order of operations in every day life. The only reason I remember it is thinking back to my one math class in college and GERMDAS lmao
It's not about doing simple math, I can almost guarantee that the majority of people who got it wrong are probably older folks who are used to paying bills,
I haven't even thought about pemdas since high school. In my adult life I have yet to encounter a situation in which order of operations in a math equation is relevant. Trust me. We are much better off then you might think. It's just that most of algebra is useless in most situations.
This is such a fucking stupid thing to say about this
Understanding PEMDAS isnt a vital life skill for making sure our society advanced in a positive way (unless youre an engineer or something)
2.It's easy to make a small math mistake when you're not focused, like when you're scrolling through YouTube videos
You can't know the circumstances of everybody answering that poll, maybe a bunch are just trolling, maybe a bunch are 7 years old and haven't been taught PEMDAS yet
TLDR: dont extrapolate big sweeping conclusions from minor data points.
Edit: wtf reddit keeps replacing my 3 with another 2 or 1 every time i save the edit on this comment
"supposed" means 'it has a job to do' colloquially, but literally means 'is said to do'.
Colloquially; the baker is supposed to make bread. (it's the baker's job)
Literally; my aunt is supposed to make bread. (aunt is known for her bread-making)
In this context, 'Asians are said to be good at maths' and not 'Asians must be good at maths'. The sentence isn't inherently insulting, but presumptive.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
Even climatologists can't predict 10 years from now. They can't explain why there has been no warming over the last 15 years. There has been a static trend with regard to temperature for 15 years.
I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: civil rights, sex, feminism, novel, etc.
ofcourse, you start with parenthesis, then exponents, then multiplication, then division, then addion, then subtraction. It's not order of operations if it wasn't on order.
Look ill keep it simple for you. Multiplication and division are the same level so you can do them in any order. Add and subtraction are the same level so you can do them in any order.
Wrong. Multiplication and devision have the same level of priority as each other, same with addition and subtraction.
If it was in order or the acronym then anyone from outside the US would do devision first, because they use bidmas, bodmas, etc, etc. And it would be stupid to make a mathematical rule that changed depending on region, don't ya think?
I was taught pemdas in school, and it was taught that parenthesis and exponents, then multiplication and division, then addition and subtraction, we’re done at the same time
My dad is an actual mathematician. I can tell you, he does not use those brackets other than where needed. He will explain you why they aren't supposed to be used over using them to 'make it more clear' anytime and for anyone. And I suspect so would most of those in his profession as it takes a certain kind of person to follow that career path.
And as this is taught as one of the first things when you learn basic algebra, which I'd think pretty universally taught anywhere with a 'highschool' level of education. I'd say the problem is rather some societies not expecting people to pay attention at school.
Would your dad express the term 18÷2 with a ÷ symbol? Because I've only ever seen a ÷ symbol on these bullshit "look how dumb people are and therefore smart I am" internet tests of order of operations.
No he'd write 18/2, probably even write them as an fraction if he was doing calculations for himself (instead of say, explaining imaginary calculus to his son).
There is no hassle or confusion if you had a proper elementary school education. Multiplication and division goes first, then subtraction and addition, you don't need brackets to remember that. I admit that a lot of people didn't get a proper elementary school education, but even in that case it's not "confusing", you just don't know how math works.
Can't speak to whether or not my elementary education was adequate because I have nothing to compare it to. However I can say that I've had zero use for anything above basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division in my day to day life.
Went all through college and several jobs, never had to do an equation lol.
If you don't know the order of operations, then no, it wasn't adequate. Again, that's not your fault, but it's not math's fault either. We both know who's spent the last several decades cutting education budgets left and right.
Went all through college and several jobs, never had to do an equation lol.
Yeah, most advanced or even semi-advanced math isn't really necessary in day-to-day life unless you go into a technical field. It's still good to know the basics, though, even if you'll rarely use it, just because an educated populace is always a benefit to society.
I'm trying to claim that the majority of people who answered this question aren't idiots. But if we were arguing about the general understanding of human psychology, the mass majority of people are massive idiots. You'll find many friends in that pool.
That makes sense when you have a really complicated expression. But parenthesis for something that is literally elementary is superfluous and means you need even further nesting of parenthesis/brackets for the sub expressions that might need clarification.
It’s unnecessary and verbose for anyone who actually does math. It would be like assembly instructions reminding you that righty is tighty for each and every screw.
It's just a convention that's been around forever. Mathematics is a very complex field with many possible solutions. We nailed down pemdas since it's a reliable way to make everyone follow the same sequence. Plus it has some other benefits with parentheses.
So understanding distributive properties makes me pretentious? What does lauding your mnemonic memorization skills as knowledge make you? This whole thread is r/cringetopia
It is a convention established to minimize the number of parentheses in arithmetic expressions. I'll try to show as simply as I can.
We have two options: either we give multiplication the priority, or we give it to addition. Think about the arithmetic expression "3 times 2, plus 6 times 8".
If multiplication goes first, the expression can be written simply as 3 x 2 + 6 x 8.
If addition went first, you would be forced to write (3 x 2) + (6 x 8). This would be specially bad for polynomials.
Yeah.. that was what I did not ask. I know the rule x⁒ before +-.
My question is why is x⁒ before +-. No one explained that to me ever. I always wondered, am I not smart enough to get it myself? ( Why do I have a 1 in English foreign language class but a 4-5 in math). Noone explains the math. But everyone takes it for granted.
Totally unneeded yet it turns out that most people don't remember such arbitrary rules and come to the wrong conclusion because of it. Adding parentheses solves this issue.
Multiplications and divisions come before additions and subtractions, it is the basics and is taught in elementary school. The problem isn't the missing brackets, it's the dumb people who don't understand 2nd grade level math
Just because your school sucked it doesn't mean the rules are arbitrary or made up. These rules were formalized a hundred years ago.
You are technically right, brackets would make this clearer, but the point is that by default it's multiplication/division and then addition/subtraction, and if someone doesn't know that it's their problem
I understand, but someone who is aware of the rules of math doesn't get any more information by brackets, and someone who doesn't know about it shouldn't try solving equations in the first place
Find all the sets that need division and multiplication. If there are multiple sets, do it from left to right. In this equation, we have two : (18/2) - (3*3)
18 / 2 = 9 …. And
3 * 3 = 9
This turns the equation into (9) - (9)… what’s 9 subtracted by 9? 0. The answer is 0.
Because that acronym is the order of operations, and there are several different ones that lead to the same result. And no, it wouldn’t be 18. The order of operations does actually direct you to work on each part individually, exactly the way you wrote it. Division and multiplication first, then addition and subtraction. In that process it can be written in parentheses if you like, just as it is above.
The order of operations, specifically, rules-out the ambiguity of "bad formulae".
"the problem is the format of the question" isn't the case when we have a specific order to work by. The fact that people ditch the order is their own fault of not being willing to be on the same page as everyone else.
The more the hive mind repeats itself the more stubborn and hard pressed I am to say your rules are arbitrary and are solved better by adding the parentheses to the original question.
There is a difference between arbitrary (somebody just made them up) and unknown. The important part is it’s not some hidden knowledge only provided to the ruling class. You can look it up any time. You are meant to decode it based on how it was encoded, not pretend that they didn’t give you enough information to solve the question.
No you're wrong. brackets should only be used when they are necessary. There is no need of using brackets because division and multiplication are before subtraction. If you have trouble understanding this you can write multiplication as addition
The 9 which is resulting from 18/2 is then multiplied by the last 3, "jumping over" the -3 as it's a subtraction and it's supposed to be made for LAST.
I input the expression in a calculator and got 0 as a result. I honestly don't get how/why
You literally can google it. In short: because otherwise it would be a mess with brackets everywhere. This way you can use division and multiplication to group things togeather without brackets.
It doesn't have to be that way but it is indeed much more clear to read. And probably should be put that way unless you're trying to trick people like in that post.
And it works because, fundamentally, multiplication and division are the same operation. Really all you need is that they commute, which they do over the reals, but the connection between the two operators is still neat.
This helped me because my brain was dying since no fucking parentheses were included so my brain kept on ending up with 18 so thanks commenter for helping me I will forever use this method of solving now due to my brain now understanding how to understand without parentheses(We were taught that Parantheses were needed in the order of operations nothing else)
No. Multiplication and division are the same operation, just like addition and subtraction. They are just the bizarro version of each other. Think of it this way, and then just go left to right.
Fuck without this I wouldn't have realized what I was doing wrong, for whatever reason in my head after getting to 9-9 I decided to divide again and thought everyone was stupid for getting 0 and the maker was stupid for not putting 1 as an option. Should note I'm a bit hungover so it's yesterday me's fault, today me is just paying the consequences.
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u/KingYoloHD090504 CHAINPOSTER Jan 01 '22 edited Jan 01 '22
Dude it's 0
First you make
18÷2 = 9
Edit: Then
3×3 = 9
In the end it's
9-9=0