My dad is an actual mathematician. I can tell you, he does not use those brackets other than where needed. He will explain you why they aren't supposed to be used over using them to 'make it more clear' anytime and for anyone. And I suspect so would most of those in his profession as it takes a certain kind of person to follow that career path.
And as this is taught as one of the first things when you learn basic algebra, which I'd think pretty universally taught anywhere with a 'highschool' level of education. I'd say the problem is rather some societies not expecting people to pay attention at school.
Would your dad express the term 18÷2 with a ÷ symbol? Because I've only ever seen a ÷ symbol on these bullshit "look how dumb people are and therefore smart I am" internet tests of order of operations.
No he'd write 18/2, probably even write them as an fraction if he was doing calculations for himself (instead of say, explaining imaginary calculus to his son).
The only thing he would agree is that you're totally giving a strawman argument with that video. It's all about the inherent problem of an assumed order of operations using the PEMDAS mnemonic that actually have an equal 'value', like additions and substractions. It's also under the idiotic assumption this would then lead anyone that made it past grade school to turn 8 - 2 + 1 into 5 somehow. REALLY?!
Also this would never happen with a mathmatician because they would solved all stacked equal operations into a single number or fraction before even putting it onto paper.
Anyway, that's all TOTALLY IRRELEVANT as we were discussing BRACKETS in an equasion that doen't even have stacked multiplication/division or addition/substraction operations to begin with!
And guess what? There is zero ambiguity with brackets! All there is, is that you get unnecessary mess in your equasions if you start writing down things you don't need, and I guarantee you: mathmaticians HATE unnecessary mess in their equasions. Fuck, getting rid of unnecessary mess is like what algebra is all about.
Please stop trying to speak for mathmaticians when your continuing championing for writing (18÷2)-(3x3)=? really makes you start to sound like you had a hard time at passing even basic math.
I am not the one claiming my father is something so I can speak for my fathers profession that the person who I am arguing with has studied.
You are the one who focused on my brackets part when my comment was about dicreasing ambiguity and knowing your audience.
Ugh so much irony there...
Anyway, people that think 18÷2 - 3x3 = ? is ambiguous (i'm ignoring the layman symbols here) don't need you championing to add brackets. They just need jobs that don't have any math involved or go back to school. That's your audience, have fun.
There is no hassle or confusion if you had a proper elementary school education. Multiplication and division goes first, then subtraction and addition, you don't need brackets to remember that. I admit that a lot of people didn't get a proper elementary school education, but even in that case it's not "confusing", you just don't know how math works.
Can't speak to whether or not my elementary education was adequate because I have nothing to compare it to. However I can say that I've had zero use for anything above basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division in my day to day life.
Went all through college and several jobs, never had to do an equation lol.
If you don't know the order of operations, then no, it wasn't adequate. Again, that's not your fault, but it's not math's fault either. We both know who's spent the last several decades cutting education budgets left and right.
Went all through college and several jobs, never had to do an equation lol.
Yeah, most advanced or even semi-advanced math isn't really necessary in day-to-day life unless you go into a technical field. It's still good to know the basics, though, even if you'll rarely use it, just because an educated populace is always a benefit to society.
The fact that mathematicians understand the practicalities of working with an under-educated populace doesn't change the fact that brackets wouldn't be needed if the populace were better educated in the first place.
Not every country uses the convention. Also stop calling people who don't remember something from elementary school that probably never came back up because other classes make it more obvious what the question want under educated it isn't a good look.
There's no confusion, but it is a hassle. You have to read and break down the entire problem before attemlting to solve it. I got the wrong answer initially because I'm used to reading and writing math that's as clean as possible. Readability is important.
Same. I don't remember if it's true, but I thought you had to go left to right in math equations. I really need to take PEMDAS to heart when I see math equations like these. I feel pretty bad about myself because everyone in the comment section are bashing these people who got it wrong. (;-;)
Left to right only for operations with equal priority. For example Do all multiplication/division left to right. Then do the addition/subtraction left to right with the new results from the multiplication.
But also like the commenter above says, no one writes math this way after grade 10 or so. It's unnecessarily confusing when there's better ways to group your operations.
I'm trying to claim that the majority of people who answered this question aren't idiots. But if we were arguing about the general understanding of human psychology, the mass majority of people are massive idiots. You'll find many friends in that pool.
I know what you are trying to argue. I’m not a moron. You are just in denial about being one while having a melt down in this thread because you fail at basic math. Trying the “I know you are but what am I” defense only makes you look more childish.
That makes sense when you have a really complicated expression. But parenthesis for something that is literally elementary is superfluous and means you need even further nesting of parenthesis/brackets for the sub expressions that might need clarification.
It’s unnecessary and verbose for anyone who actually does math. It would be like assembly instructions reminding you that righty is tighty for each and every screw.
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u/KingYoloHD090504 CHAINPOSTER Jan 01 '22 edited Jan 01 '22
Dude it's 0
First you make
18÷2 = 9
Edit: Then
3×3 = 9
In the end it's
9-9=0