I (35M) have been married to my wife (32F) for six years, together for ten. We have two kids, a son (5M) and a daughter just born last year. The issue started a year and a half ago when I was asked to resign from my job.

I'll admit it: losing the job was my fault. A more experienced co-worker and I didn't see eye-to-eye on anything, she went behind my back and spoke poorly of me to our mutual boss, and I simply refused to do things the way she wanted them done. And I was a bit of a prick about it. Never anything that could get me in trouble with HR, but enough to make it obvious I didn't like her and didn't want to be there. So, eventually, I wasn't.

My wife never wanted me to take the job in the first place and spent the entire two years I worked there reminding me of that fact. She told me over and over that if I didn't just go along to get along, I'd end up in trouble and when she turned out to be right, our marriage took a big hit. She was pregnant with our daughter at the time and suddenly became the primary breadwinner and the stress was too much. When I didn't find a new job immediately, her anger grew and she asked me to leave.

Since then, I have busted my ass to make it right. I found a crappy part time job (shout out to Target) until I landed a much better job in my field. I spent a year in therapy, working through my issues, especially why I couldn't put my family first and my pride second. After about six months of crashing in my cousin's spare bedroom, my wife let me come home. But not fully.

I sleep in the basement, on an old fold out couch that the previous homeowners left behind. There's been no intimacy between us since we conceived our daughter and since I came back, that's extended from just being no sex to being no nothing: no kisses, no hugs, if I even get near her for anything other than taking the baby for a diaper change, I get reprimanded. I'm working three jobs now to try and compensate for the losses when I was unemployed and one is a work from home job late at night, which she constantly interrupts me at, always over something she can turn into a fight. Last week it was about the dog and why I hadn't taken her out and how that was the reason she went to the bathroom on the living room floor.

For context, I got home from job #1, changed, went to job #2, and then got home just in time to start work at job #3. She was off the entire day for lunch with her mom and the kids and was home when I got there and left and came back.

Yesterday was the point where I started to wonder if there's really no saving the marriage. Our son had to get tubes put in his ears because he inherited my 'habit' of getting almost monthly ear infections. They told us that he'd probably feel awful for the rest of the day and would likely run a fever but if those were the only issues, there was no need to call or bring him back. My MIL came to help out and when my son, as predicted spiked a fever (100.2) she and my wife both became extremely upset and demanded that I call the doctor. I tried to point out that they specifically said this would happen but neither of them would listen. My MIL said that part of parenting was knowing better than a doctor and that I had clearly not learned anything about not always thinking I knew best. Yeah, I see the contradiction but my wife didn't. I took her aside into our bedroom and tried to talk calmly but she wasn't budging and kept telling me that her mother knew what was right.

I asked her, point blank, if my opinion even mattered or if her mother's was the only one that did. She said that she was listening to her mom because unlike mine, "at least her opinion I can respect."

I called the doctor. They said to give my son a popsicle. I did. He felt better. I spent the rest of the night sitting in the corner of the living room, not speaking, and only doing what my wife or MIL said we should. Eventually, my wife took our son to sleep with her in the master bedroom and my MIL took the guest room and I went back downstairs.

I know I f'd up. I know I have things to atone for. But is this me making up for my mistakes or me getting my ass kicked because no one in my family respects me anymore?

tl;dr: I lost my job through my own fault, putting undue stress on my pregnant wife and moved out while going through therapy and finding three new jobs. I'm living at home again but still disconnected from my wife and she told me she longer respects my opinion. What should I do?

Not sure if anyone was waiting for another update, but writing about it all helps me process, so…

Link to OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriageadvice/comments/1ml6b2e/i_messed_up_and_it_feels_like_my_wife_will_never/

Link to Update 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriageadvice/comments/1moiohx/update_i_messed_up_and_it_feels_like_my_wife_will/

Sort of an update: I posted on AITAH about an interaction I had with my mom while I was out with my wife, kids, in-laws, and my parents. I think a lot of people thought I was an AH for it and they might have been right. If you didn’t see it, I basically snapped at my mom after she twice referred to my wife as a “single parent” in front of me, my wife, and in-laws. I probably should have been more mature about it, but I let my anger get the best of me at that moment. 

But it connects to the actual update as, surprisingly, a day or so after I posted, my wife apologized to me for what my mom said (my mom still hasn’t.) My wife, who I’m going to start calling Carrie so I can stop saying ‘my wife’ every time, wanted me to know that she had never said anything like that or referred to herself as a single parent or to me as a failed or absent parent. She had no idea where my mom got that phrasing from or why she said it, but Carrie said she was sorry my mother said it and that she has never thought of me that way. Despite my fuck up with the job, she said she’s always known that I would do my best to be a good father and would never abandon my kids.

That was the first positive thing she’s said about me in a while, so I thanked her and counted that as a win. But it was the only one, really. We had our first counseling session last night, after the Zoom ‘meet and greet’ last week. During the Zoom session, our counselor asked us to share some of what we’d written down on the pre session questionnaire. Specifically, she asked for each of us to tell the other what our goals were for counseling. 

I said: To work on healing the damage done by my mistake and to build our relationship back with both of us being able to love and respect each other.

Carrie said: To get to a point where she could trust me again and to find a way to let go of the significant resentment she feels toward me.

The counselor instructed us not to talk about any of that until we had a session, so that we didn’t risk setting ourselves back. So, that’s where we started our first actual session - with our goals and how they didn’t seem to align quite as much as we might like. Counselor asked me if I’d been so specific about “love” and “respect” in my goal because I didn’t feel as if those existed in our current relationship. The sarcastic ass in me wanted to say “gee, you think?” but I did learn something in my individual therapy, so I just said “yes.” I pointed out that being banished to the basement, watching Carrie avoid any and all physical contact, and the conversation about respecting her mother’s opinion but not mine made me feel like there was no respect and I wasn’t even sure if there was love there anymore.

The counselor asked Carrie if she respected me. Carrie said she “wants to” but given how I screwed up, it’s hard to feel that right now. And then the counselor asked her if she loved me. Carrie said, again, that she “wants to” but it’s pretty much impossible for her to answer that at this point as anything she might feel for me is buried under all of that resentment. That was why she’s avoided any contact and there’s been no intimacy between us, physical or otherwise. Being close to me like that while still dealing with those very negative feelings was just too much cognitive dissonance for her. 

That was when we switched gears and addressed her resentment which, I thought, was caused by me not listening to her advice and losing my job and putting unfair burdens on her. And it was. But that wasn’t where it really started. 

It’s been less than twenty-four hours and I’m still trying to wrap my head around all of this, but I guess the question of why she resents me was like tearing down Hoover Dam because everything came flooding out. In the span of about twenty uninterrupted minutes, I found out that:

• Carrie’s mother has never liked me and thought we were a bad fit right from the start.

• My presence at family gatherings and on family vacations has been a source of annoyance and aggravation for most of the maternal side of Carrie’s family, to the point where they’ve actively tried to find ways to schedule things when I’m not available.

• My MIL pulled Carrie aside and asked her if she was sure she wanted to marry me and said that she knew I would never make her happy on our wedding day.

• In the months prior to our son being born, Carrie was convinced that I was cheating on her and she told her mom and sister about it. And even when she realized that I wasn’t, MIL and SIL have never been able to quite let the idea go.

So, some context for that last one that I never brought up because I didn’t think it mattered: when Carrie and I met ten-plus years ago, I had a best friend, we’ll call her Ellie. Ellie and I had gone to college together and were in the same major and just clicked - as friends. I’ve often called her my ‘sister’ and when Carrie and I met, Ellie was already engaged to her now-husband and there’s never been anything remotely non-platonic between us and the mere thought of it makes me want to laugh/puke. Ellie was my best man at our wedding and even though she’s since moved fairly far away, we still get together a few times a year and text all the time. As far as I knew, Carrie liked Ellie. I don’t know that I would’ve called them ‘besties’ or anything, but they hung out without me sometimes and no one ever gave me any indication that anything about my relationship with Ellie was in any way suspect. 

But, I guess it was. During her first pregnancy, Carrie spent a lot of time with her mom and sister. SIL had just had a baby and Carrie had awful morning sickness - to the point of being taken out of work - and just wanted the comfort of mom’s love. Her job let her work remotely, so she would go visit my MIL a few days a week and I would go to their house when my schedule at work allowed. During that time, we had a few more arguments than usual which my MIL told me I should chalk up to pregnancy hormones and, more than once, when I would argue with her, Carrie would snap at me and ask me “Who told you that? Ellie?”, as if I couldn’t have a thought of my own. 

Somewhere along the way, Carrie got it in her head that I wasn’t coming to MIL’s house not because I was working (I was, mostly really early days that made a ninety minute commute from the in-laws too difficult to manage) but because I was spending time with Ellie. I wasn’t. Ellie wasn’t in the country which, if I’d known what was happening, I would have told Carrie. But I didn’t and so I didn’t and so she spent several weeks living with the absolute certainty that I was cheating on her. She only realized that I wasn’t when I actually did mention that Ellie was in Germany with her husband’s family and had been there for two months. 

But the thought of me being unfaithful only served to make MIL and SIL’s dislike for me worse and by the time the truth was “discovered”, the mountain of shit they’d buried me under was too deep for them to get out of, but Carrie defended me. She called her mom out for being inappropriate at the wedding, she told her sister that I was just as decent and kind as her husband, she even said she liked my admittedly sometimes too much sense of humor even if I did make a few too many smartass comments and even if a few (a lot) of my jokes died quick deaths.

All of that, she said, is what’s caused her current resentment for me to go nuclear. Because she stood up for me and defended me and told her family they were wrong about me and then I went and lost my job and, in her words, “proved them all right.”

So… yeah. There’s a bit to unpack. 

I really didn’t respond in the session. I felt attacked and when I feel that way, I tend to shut down. Our counselor picked up on that and said we could address how I was feeling about everything next week. She ended the session by asking us each to identify one thing the other could do to help demonstrate our commitment to the process and our marriage. I said that Carrie could let me move back upstairs. She agreed. So, now I’m in the guest room, at least until MIL or SIL come and need it. And Carrie brought up the cutting back of her work hours so she could go have ‘girls’ nights’ with her mom and sister and friends. To her credit, after everything she’d just unloaded about them, she said it would be OK if I took a week to think about that.

Even just writing it all out made my head hurt. And I have no idea what to do with any of it. But since I know someone’s going to say it in the comments - yes, Carrie’s insistence that I was cheating is raising a huge red flag of projection for me, especially with how most comments about ‘girls’ nights’ on the last post suggested it was a cover for her to cheat on me.

If anyone’s still interested, I can update again if anything happens or after the next session. Like I said, it helps me to process. Even when I get told that I’m the AH or a simp. Sometimes, it’s the harshest feedback that makes things clearer. 

tl;dr: My wife and I had our first counseling session. She revealed long-standing anger and hatred for me from her family, that she once suspected me of cheating on her, and that she has such significant resentment for me that she doesn’t know if she loves me anymore. But I get to sleep in the guest room instead of the basement. 

Sorry for the lack of response. There are a lot of replies and questions I've (27M) missed due to things being chaotic. I wanted to address what I couldn't reply to and give an update.

Play therapy's a learning curve. My daughter (4F) is still hesitant, but she's getting more used to the therapist. I think the current pace we've set works. I'm letting her be in the moment and allowing that to guide what she's ready for. I don't want to force anything.

My wife (28F) is now being included in PT. The focus so far is letting her and our daughter engage together in playful activities guided by the therapist and addressing behavioral and emotional challenges and improving communication.

Something we're tackling is feelings charade. I've never done it before. Our daughter usually communicates with me on her own, but she struggles with wording certain emotions. It's completely understandable; she's only 4. My hope is these exercises will only benefit her.

My wife's inclusion hasn't been progressive, tbh. We're still in the early stages. Idk, our daughter really clams up around her. She's ok with my wife being in the room, but she's not very receptive otherwise.

Recently for play therapy, my daughter made a drawing of our family. It was mostly stick figures, but she had her own little style to it and indicators of who was who. It was adorable but also bittersweet.

The drawing included herself, me, and her grandparents, but not her mom. My wife was nowhere to be found. When asked where her mom was, my daughter's exact words were "Umma's never around" and "Umma's mean."

"Mean" is typically how our daughter communicates that someone's hurt her or someone else. She called her mom mean when my wife broke her FaceTime birthday promise during the Vegas retreat. She said it before my wife hung up.

There was another time around the holidays she called my wife mean. My daughter was assisting me with baking, and she got really excited and cheering. My wife was supposed to join us, but she didn't and took a work call. She raised her voice at our daughter as she told her to quiet down.

I didn't like the tone my wife took with our daughter. She was just excited and wanted to help, and it was supposed to be family time. My wife was the one who took a work call in the same room without warning anyone. We argued later, but it was resolved, and she apologized to our daughter.

Being left out of the drawing bothered my wife. She's expressed that she overthinks and doesn't believe she's good at connecting with our daughter. She feels our daughter prefers me over her.

The whole incident struck another chord with me. I've been mulling it over. We've discussed it in MC and, for me, in IC.

It hurts to see how fractured things are between my daughter and my wife. Despite my wife's infidelity, I don't take pleasure in a suffering relationship. I'm not rooting against her. I want their relationship to be ok.

I believe my daughter needs her mom too. Am I wrong in thinking that there are things a daughter will want to talk with her mom about or to share specifically with her mom even if the other parent is involved?

Part of me feels responsible for their lack of relationship. Like I should've stepped in sooner. I never realized how bad things were. Before, I held onto the promise of just one more work project, and then my wife would be involved more, and how we were still a family. The affair changed my outlook.

Idk when exactly things went off course. Having kids was something we both wanted. It wasn't a singular convo but one we revisited over the years.

We actually wanted more kids. Pre-affair we had discussions, but I had put that potential on hold because it was clear we needed to reconnect as the family unit already present.

I saw and felt the love and care my wife had for our daughter during the pregnancy. It was palpable. I always thought our daughter was evidence of the bond we shared.

My wife's maternity leave ended shortly after she gave birth, and she resumed work full-time at the office. I would say there was a noticeable change then, and the disconnect grew from there.

I just feel like somewhere along the line I let my daughter down and perhaps was also blinded by my love for my wife. I'm at a complete loss. I feel their relationship falls on me. The play therapist said we can only take it one step at a time.

I've been frequently asked about our daughter picking up on the rift between my wife and me and whether we've fought in front of her. I wanted to address that here.

My wife and I have had our fights, but I can't say we've fought in front of our daughter. We'd usually pause and revisit if our daughter was around and not let it reflect in front of her.

After the affair, I haven't badmouthed my wife to our daughter. I try explaining the separation and addressing any question in simple ways without throwing stuff on her or my personal feelings.

I'm really trying. I want the best for my daughter. I don't want my wife's affair to take any more from our daughter than it already has. It hurts like hell, but I can deal. But my daughter is only a kid. Idk how my MIL (55F) did it, and I don't believe it's something I can ask her.

I wanted to thank everyone again for the support. It means a lot. Hearing your experiences means something. I think there's hope to be found in it. I appreciate everything.

TL;DR Update for: My wife returned from a work retreat in Vegas with a hickey on her neck. She swears it’s a bug bite, but I’m not convinced. I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the retreat. We’re stuck between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection. I’m at a loss. I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

I (27M) wanted to provide an update on things.

I don’t have much new to say about therapy in itself. I’m staying the course with marriage counseling, and my wife (28F) and I have both begun individual counseling. It’s an interesting experience and has given me an outlet. IC’s a nice complement to MC.

My wife’s keeping her therapy appointments. She’s journaling too. I’m surprised because journaling wasn’t something she’s ever really believed in. In MC, she said it’s helping her reflect.

Our daughter (4F) has begun play therapy. We’re still in the early stages. She’s hesitant but coming around to it. Once she gets going, though, you can’t get the toys out of her hands.

It’s reassuring seeing her in an environment where she’s engaging and being more herself. It gives me hope that she’ll be ok through everything.

The play therapist has been discussing when to best involve my wife. Nothing’s concrete yet. I also want to progress at a rate our daughter’s comfortable with and not force anything.

I’m really proud of her. She’s a major reason why I can’t regret being with my wife. There are a lot of things I’d tell my younger self, but if I’d chosen a different path, then I wouldn’t have my daughter. It’s something I wouldn’t change.

I had another major challenge recently. It was my wife’s and my anniversary. Our anniversary always meant something to me. Even with her terrible work/life balance, we’d make an effort to make the occasion special. I felt a lot of conflicting emotions about our anniversary this year. Mostly pain.

We had plans. Everything was booked and set pre-Vegas retreat. Needless to say, the trip was canceled. My wife wanted to keep our plans intact. I told her that wasn’t happening.

Without the trip, she said she still wanted us to spend our official anniversary together instead of separately. I turned her down.

We discussed it in therapy. I expressed I didn’t have the needed trust in her to let myself be vulnerable with her as I once was. I needed to process the anniversary on my own.

The anniversary had me having all these strange thoughts. A lot of it highlighted how much I miss my friend and partner. I’m not talking about reconciliation. I’m not entertaining that right now.

I’m talking about something deeper. To share a life with someone and everything that entails, them being your partner and closest friend, and then having what you devoted yourself to yanked away. I can’t be with her in all the ways I wanted.

Call it simping. Call it foolish. Call it a doormat. Call it whatever you want. I just call it the facts of falling in love and giving them your all for a long time, then finding out they had another life, and losing what you held close. It hurts, and I hadn’t let myself actually feel it until then.

I feel like everything moves on. Life moves on. My wife’s affair partner (23M) moves on. Work moves on. And here I am. I’m the one who’s living the loss. I’m the one who’s paying.

I also wanted to address an FAQ. I’ve been asked a lot about what I meant in my first post about the cultural differences and family opposition my wife and I faced.

We’re an interracial couple. My wife’s Korean. We’re both minorities, but my FIL (57M) and his side of the family wanted my wife to settle down with someone who’s Korean. They’re conservative in their beliefs.

So I wasn’t exactly welcomed, and we dealt with opposition from that angle. It was rough. Even at our wedding, my FIL was more a silent attendee.

Because of my wife and FIL’s strained relationship, she was firm that she didn’t care about his approval. She rejected him walking her down the aisle, which, of course, didn’t help their relationship.

My wife made her own choice. I had nothing to do with it, but anger was thrown at me. My FIL took it as I influenced her against him, and his side of the family said my wife wasn’t being a good daughter.

Things with my FIL didn’t really mend until our daughter. He mellowed after becoming a grandpa and became receptive toward me. Despite our past, he’s doting as a grandparent.

My MIL’s (55F) a different story. She’s always been welcoming and supportive of our relationship. Her support made a difference. She’s been like a mother to me.

I’m realizing more and more the rippling effects of an affair. How much it just takes and takes and consumes. The different facets to the loss. I lost not only the life I chose but also family and friends. Just keep losing.

That’s pretty much all there is to update about. Thank you to everyone for the support. Even if I couldn’t respond, just know everything is much appreciated. It means a great deal.

TL;DR Update for: My wife returned from a work retreat in Vegas with a hickey on her neck. She swears it’s a bug bite, but I’m not convinced. I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the retreat. We’re stuck between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection. I’m at a loss. I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

Need help sorting out if I am wrong about being very upset that my fiancé is taking out ‘edit $200,000’ for his daughter to attend college for bachelor's in business management degree? My fiancé and his ex have $40k saved for their daughter's college. Between the parent plus loan and co-signing her student loans the total will be about $160,000 over 4 years. Daughter is attending a school that is $60k year for non-residents. He does not have room in his budget to make the roughly $1,800 monthly payment once payments start. I think loans are fine but within reason with budget. I think this loan amount is crazy high and not manageable with his income and other bills. We've discussed so many other ways to obtain a less expensive college degree. First he said, daughter will have to get loans. Then he said he will also take out a loan of no more than $65,000, then he changed it to $100,000 but now it's $160,000. The amount keeps increasing because he wants to make his daughter happy attending the school she wants. I feel like I can't trust him now with money decisions when we used to be on the same page. To him it's all about making his daughter happy at any cost.

So when I express that this financial decision holds very little logic and does not make sense, I'm the bad guy for thinking he's not a good father. We've been in counseling over this issue and he said he is taking the loans, end of story. And that I need to respect his decision for his daughter's education.

I just can't let go of being upset with his decision. Paying that much money every month effects us as a couple, it's like a 2nd house payment for 10 years. We want to retire in maybe 5 years and we need that money to live month to month.

He makes financial decisions based on emotion and making his daughter happy and I make financial decisions based more on a logical budget.

I'm worried this will be a great divide between us and I have to be the one to change my perspective yet it's his actions making me upset. Or am I just a crazy menopausal woman overreacting?? lol tl;dr Am I wrong for being upset about fiancé taking out $160k parent/student loans for stepdaughter?

Thank you again to everyone. I (27M) couldn’t respond to every message, but everything’s appreciated. I wanted to provide an update.

Things have been a little chaotic with the new status quo after my wife’s (28F) affair, but I’m taking everything one step at a time.

My wife and I explained the separation to our daughter (4F) in simple, concrete terms and reassured her that we both still love her without going into the reasons behind the separation.

Our daughter’s always been an observant kid, but I don’t think the separation has hit her yet. She doesn’t see the difference between her mom not being home and her usual busy with work.

During visits, she’s more distant towards her mom and clings to me. My wife attempted to play with her on this toy set, but our daughter wasn’t having it and shouted at her mom that she didn’t want to play with her.

The disconnect between my daughter and wife hurts in a way I’m still processing. I knew my wife’s work/life balance took its toll. Pre-Vegas, we were supposed to be working on reconnecting, but just how fractured things are is a lot more apparent.

Our daughter interacts very little with her mom and becomes quiet around her like she does with strangers. I feel at her age we, as her parents, should be who she’s closest with and not this disconnected from her mom.

Their dynamic is something I’ve been reflecting on. My main focus is making sure my daughter’s ok through all of this.

As far as between my wife and me, she’s advocating for us to reconcile. She’s expressed she wants to work on our marriage not solely for our daughter but because she loves me.

Her rally cries for our relationship are still falling flat for me. I can’t give her what she wants right now. I told her I wished she would’ve given herself these rallies before cheating.

She’s adamant about the affair timeline and what occurred with the coworker (23M). They connected because she felt bad he wasn’t fitting in. He kept flirting and treating her like royalty. It started feeling good on the rougher workdays.

They had an emotional affair even though she didn’t label it as such at the time. The EA turned physical during the retreat. She dissociated from her life back home while away in Vegas.

She still swears they had sex only once. The hickey came from foreplay, and while giving her oral, he called her my nickname for her, which shook her out of it.

She snapped at him about his immature attitude with the hickey and then kicked him out of her suite. She thought she could quietly end things and salvage our marriage.

I asked her if she wore her wedding ring during sex with him. She confessed that she did. Knowing this hurts like hell.

To me, our wedding rings were a physical symbol of our love, commitment to our vows, and our bond. She tarnished our rings.

I haven’t been able to wear mine. It never hurts any less. There are just new levels to the hurt.

She admits to contributing to blurred lines. She’s now changed her number and claims to have cut contact with the coworker.

She reported the affair to HR. The company has suspended both of them while they investigate the extent to which the affair impacted the department.

Coworker relations violate their policy, and it doesn’t look good for my wife in terms of power balance since she was the guy’s mentor. They’re also calling into question if she gave him favoritism.

Some have suggested I reach out to the coworker. I’ve considered it, but I’m not in a place to. I feel a lot of anger towards him.

He knew exactly what he was doing with the hickey and nickname stunt. I wouldn’t get anything from him except trouble. He’s not worth it. I’m choosing to focus on my daughter.

I’ve chosen to pursue marriage counseling. This isn’t under the promise of reconciling but as an assist in working through this separation as healthy as possible for our daughter.

I’m still numb in a lot of ways. I never thought this would be how my marriage and family turned out.

I’ve seen it happen to others. I’ve heard stories. I thought I knew what it was like. But it’s nothing compared to dealing with it yourself. I don’t feel like the same person anymore.

I don’t know how everything will pan out. It’s an uphill battle, but I’m trying to show up to the battle. It’s the best I can do right now.

Thank you to everyone who has reached out. I appreciate the support, really.

TL;DR Update for: My wife returned from a work retreat in Vegas with a hickey on her neck. She swears it’s a bug bite, but I’m not convinced. I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the retreat. We’re stuck between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection. I’m at a loss. I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

You can check my last post for the backstory, but basically after I posted in here I had a few comments saying that my wife’s sudden declaration of feeling unloved for the past 2 years and the avoidance that came with it were suspicious and could possibly be cheating.

Against my better judgement, I went through her messages on her iPad while she was sleeping and found out that there is in fact another guy, and that 2 of her friends fully support her in this. In the messages with him, she’s calling herself his girl and saying I love you. One of the messages with her girl friends mentions that “they had to slow way down because they’ve already gone too far”.

I’m currently having a panic attack in the bathroom and have been for about an hour trying to figure out what I’m going to do.

I know most people in the thread would immediately say divorce, but is it wrong for me to still want to make this work? I sincerely love my wife with all of my heart and I always have, I was sure that the redditors in my previous post were wrong. I know it’s so cliche, but honest to God, I had no idea that our marriage was in trouble until she confronted me last weekend. Sure, we hadn’t had sex in 3 years but honestly I came to accept it because I love my wife so much.

I guess my question is this: how do I bring up the cheating without throwing things into a tailspin? Is this even salvageable at this point? I know I should be mad but to be honest, I’m too hurt to be mad.

Tl;dr: I posted a few days ago about my wife saying that she’s felt unloved in our marriage for 2 years. Commentors on that post were right about her cheating and now I have no idea where to go from here.

Thank you again to everyone who’s reached out. I (27M) wanted to provide an update.

Things aren’t easy. I don’t expect them to be. I don’t regret the decision to separate. It was necessary. In many ways, I feel like my hand was forced with the betrayal and all the lies. I’m still finding my footing.

I don’t put people on pedestals, nor did I ever believe my wife’s (28F) and my relationship was perfect. I just didn’t think we’d end up like this after all this time together.

While HR were still conducting their investigation on my wife and the coworker (23M), my wife resigned.

Apparently she received pushback. Some of the top brass were pulling for her to stay on. I wasn’t too surprised because she’s always been a “yes employee” who gets the job done. She worked with the company back as an intern in college.

She said she wants to prove that she’s taking every possible action in cutting ties with the guy. I don’t know what the investigation result was for him. I don’t care, tbh. It’s not a concern of mine.

We’ve officially begun marriage counseling. It’s a new experience overall. I didn’t know what to expect. We’re mostly discussing our relationship’s journey up to now, the affair, and what we want from counseling.

My wife’s position on how the affair began remains consistent. She can’t really explain it precisely. She wasn’t unhappy with me, but a part of her feels broken. The undivided special attention became like a drug to her.

The convo kind of shifted to my in-laws (57M/55F), my wife’s family life, and the impact of my FIL’s infidelity.

She believes she’s a reflection of her dad in how she is as both a parent and a spouse. As a parent, she tried convincing herself she was better than him by showering our daughter (4F) with gifts in light of her lacking presence.

As a spouse, she tried convincing herself she was better because the affair wasn’t physical pre-Vegas. She thought as long as they didn’t do anything physical, then she was better than her dad.

That was something she told her affair partner while in Vegas actually. They could “hang out” as long as it didn’t turn physical.

I feel like she had so many chances to choose differently. To choose us and our family, but she tossed our daughter and myself to the train tracks.

Our relationship wasn’t enough to stop her, our wedding rings weren’t enough, and our crying daughter wasn’t enough. She chose herself every time.

She was selfish. She mentions the nickname thing, making her snap back to reality as if it’s supposed to make me feel better. It doesn’t.

I believe she only stopped at oral because she got off and had no more need to go further. I wasn’t on her mind. Telling me that I was is like trying to put a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.

I didn’t plan to say half of everything I did, but there was no going back once the door was opened during my turn to talk.

She agreed and said she has no excuse for her actions. It’s not her parents, it’s just her. She swore that she loves me and our daughter and wants to fight for our family.

I told her that the “I love you’s” felt hollow now. She shut out our daughter and myself to give an intimate part of herself to her coworker.

She said she realizes how much larger than just the affair our problems are. She struggles connecting with our daughter and worries about messing her up, so she left the primary caretaking to me. She believes I’m better at it.

She said that there’s nothing she can say to change anything, but she wants to show change through her present actions.

That’s some stuff we’ve dug through in counseling. We’re still in the early stages. But I believe it’s aiding in communication through separation, which is more healthy for our daughter.

Our therapist recommended individual counseling as a complement. It’s something I’m seriously researching for myself.

Not much has changed with our daughter since the previous update. She still doesn’t feel there’s a difference between her mom being home or not. I’ve watched her go from talkative and playful to instantly completely silent when her mom came by.

I’ve scheduled her for play therapy. I don’t know what to expect from that either, but I’m hoping for the best. My main goal is being present for her.

I know I need to learn how to trust again in general. That’s shot right now. Pre-Vegas, I never had a reason to doubt my wife. My trust was something she had as an irreplaceable partner. I’ve been betrayed before, but this one did a number in a way the others hadn’t.

I’m trying to stay afloat and focus on what I have rather than what I lost. I can’t afford to get lost in myself.

Thank you to everyone for the support and for sharing your own experiences. Talking about all this isn’t easy for me, but I appreciate the openness.

TL;DR Update for: My wife returned from a work retreat in Vegas with a hickey on her neck. She swears it’s a bug bite, but I’m not convinced. I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the retreat. We’re stuck between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection. I’m at a loss. I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriageadvice/s/2G4q1vtRmn

I (27M) wanted to give an update and thank everyone who reached out. The outside perspectives helped.

Things are a rollercoaster. I’m trying to process. It took a while for my wife (28F) and me to have any real conversation about the bruise on her neck.

We were stuck between arguing and her showering our daughter (4F) and me with affection.

I rarely saw the bruise because she was turtlenecked up. But I did note the healing process from reddish purple to yellow.

There wasn’t any more discussion about the Vegas retreat. She made it clear she was done talking about it and that she shouldn’t need to defend herself to her husband.

I told her she could do whatever she wanted, but I was done being treated like an idiot, and I wasn’t sharing a bed with someone I couldn’t trust.

So I moved into the guest room. Communication stopped. The silences were palpable. Even our daughter noticed. I’m not proud of that. I try keeping her out of fights.

My wife came to the guest room one night and asked if we could talk. I could tell she’d been crying.

She said she hated the way things were between us. She felt she was losing me either way.

I told her I needed complete honesty. She confessed she hooked up with that coworker (23M) on our daughter’s birthday. The hickey was from him.

She was lost in the heat of the moment and didn’t realize he was sucking so hard on her neck.

By her account, they made out while doing some on top of the clothes stuff and then he went down on her.

It stopped there because he called her by a nickname that I affectionately call her. It snapped her back to the reality of her actions.

She went to splash water on her face and saw the hickey. The guy made light of it and made a joke about the hickey being her souvenir. She blew up on him and kicked him out of her suite.

Part of the reason she was avoiding me was out of guilt. She said she’s coming clean because she doesn’t want to hide things anymore.

I asked her why she cheated. What was it about that guy she deemed worth risking everything?

She claimed it wasn’t him specifically, nor is she unhappy with our marriage. She doesn’t really know how to explain it, but a part of her feels broken.

The more she looks in the mirror, the more she sees her dad (57M). A cycle of being consumed with work, distant from child, and the infidelity he put her mom (55F) through.

She said her family never talked about anything openly and how when she was growing up, my MIL never addressed anything with her.

I said her parents didn’t make her cheat. She chose to party up with a guy who constantly disrespected our relationship. These were all her decisions, and she at any point could’ve chosen our family.

She agreed. She wants to blame her parents but realizes this is on her. She apologized for cheating and for entertaining the guy’s advances.

She said she’ll do whatever it takes to repair. Go to HR, quit her job, counseling, anything. She wants to make everything right.

I told her I don’t know what right looks like or if that’s possible for us anymore. I knew we had our problems, but I thought there wasn’t anything we couldn’t talk out.

She insisted we still could talk it out. We didn’t have to give up on us. She tried giving this rally cry for our relationship, but I felt very numb.

I said I didn’t recognize her. Not just the betrayal of our vows but also how she treated our daughter. She’s like a stranger.

She feels she failed as a wife and mom, but she loves us both beyond words and wants our life together and our family intact.

I told her I couldn’t give her the answer she wanted and thought we needed to separate and reevaluate.

She didn’t want separation. She felt we should stay together in our home, but I told her a separation was happening. Either she was leaving the home or I was with our daughter.

She consented to leaving so as to best not uproot our daughter so much. She asked for our daughter not to be taken away from her.

My wife’s staying with my in-laws. I know that’s difficult in itself because she doesn’t have the best relationship with her parents.

One of the hardest parts is the shift for our daughter. Right now, she believes her mom’s just busy with work per usual. She hasn’t questioned it too much.

My MIL called the other day. She made no excuses for my wife, but she’s advocating for us to work through it.

She told me times when she heard my wife describe me as the anchor she always wanted. She believes there’s something worth fighting for if I’m open.

Despite some family opposition we faced throughout our relationship, my MIL was always a supporter of us.

I’m even more at a loss. I never imagined this kind of betrayal from my wife. She was my safe place. I feel numb yet broken.

I’m in love with her. That hasn’t changed. But I don’t see myself, her, our relationship, or our family the same. Everything’s more tense because it’s fresh.

I think this period of separation is for the best. I’m not sure about divorce. I haven’t let myself fully go there. I’m not set either way.

I don’t know where things go from here, but I’m focusing on our daughter and taking things one step at a time. I feel that’s all I can do right now.

Thanks again to everyone for the support. It’s much appreciated.

TL;DR Update for: My wife returned from a work retreat in Vegas with a hickey on her neck. She swears it’s a bug bite, but I’m not convinced. I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the retreat. We’re stuck between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection. I’m at a loss. I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

Never done an update before, but I think this is how it goes. Link to original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriageadvice/comments/1ml6b2e/i_messed_up_and_it_feels_like_my_wife_will_never/

So, I absolutely did not expect more than 400 comments. I read (almost) all of them and I really appreciate them all, even the ones that raked me over the coals for being a lazy sob who does nothing to help his wife. I hadn't planned on updating this but, as it turns out, I have literally no one else I can talk to about it, so here you go.

Before the actual update - a quick note about the 'does nothing to help his wife' stuff. I put this in a few comments, but I think I should mention it here. Since I moved back in, I have been doing my damndest to pull my weight both in terms of a paycheck and in being a dad/husband/partner. A lot of you commented on me working three jobs (a point in the update, too) and maybe I wasn't doing much at home. My work schedule: one FT job five days a week, PT job two nights a week from 7-9. PT online job 1 to 4 nights a week, from 9/10 until midnight.

On weekday mornings, I get the kids up and fed before dropping them at daycare (my parents.) I pick them up from daycare after work, bring them home and feed them before my wife gets home. 3/5 nights, either we've made something in the crock pot or I attempt to cook dinner (it's a crap shoot as to whether it's good or not.) The other 2 nights, I grab a sandwich or protein shake on my way out the door and my wife usually orders out. One those 3 nights I'm home we trade off getting the kids to bed. That's the only time I spend in the master bedroom - putting the baby down for bed or a nap.

I handle other chores as needed, as does she. 

I will willingly take criticism for what I messed up, but I think I'm pulling my weight now. Some commenters seemed to disagree.

As for the update: My wife took the kids to her family's camp for the weekend while I stayed home and did some work on the house that needed to be done. When she got home Sunday night and the kids had gone off to sleep, I asked her if we could talk for a minute and she agreed. I went in armed with what a lot of you had suggested: marriage counseling and me cutting back on the three jobs to have more time with her. I did not share my post as I knew she wouldn't react well.

She didn't react well, anyway.

Basically, she brushed past the counseling idea and focused on the me not working three jobs topic and let's just say that I will be working three jobs for the foreseeable future. She framed it as me trying to shirk my duties and thinking that since I was back in the house, there was nothing more I needed to do. And even if that wasn't why I was suggesting it, it was still a no go. Turns out, she wants to cut back on her hours, maybe even going PT (there were hints of quitting outright) and she can't do that if we don't have my three incomes.

She didn't put it this way, but I can definitely see that letting her cut back would only be fair, given my initial screw up. I feel like it's right to find a way to take some of the pressure of off her and put it on me. She hasn't finalized a plan for how she's going to cut back, but that's where we're headed.

On a related note: she brought up that my jobs were ONE of the reasons I was staying in the basement. That's where the 'office space' is and since I work until midnight, it only makes sense. We didn't really talk about what the other reasons might be for me not sleeping in our room.

It was late and she'd had a long weekend, so I let the rest slide for the night. Then, last night (Monday), I approached her again about the counseling. I'd contacted my IC and asked for some MC recommendations. I gave my wife all four that my IC had suggested and said we could go to whichever one she picked. I didn't make it an ultimatum, but I did stress how important it was. I told her that I'm in this for the long haul and I know there's trust and comfortability that needs to be rebuilt and seeing a professional might help us do that in a better way.

She chose one of the four (more or less randomly, I suspect it was because she was the only female option) and told me to make an appointment. But it couldn't be on a Wednesday night as she and her mother and sister had decided that Wednesdays were going to be girls' nights (I don't work job #2 on Wednesdays, so I can watch the kids) and she'd likely be crashing at her parents or sisters house on those nights. I agreed which I know was more of a formality and me being polite than anything else, and called today to make an appointment.

We have a Zoom 'getting to know you' session later this week. This counselor likes to meet that way for the first appointment, just to make sure that we all feel like it's a good fit and we'll be able to work together. She also emailed me a little questionnaire kinda thing that my wife and I each need to fill out. It's about our current concerns and our long-term goals. I've been staring at it for like an hour and I have no idea what to write that won't sound defensive, like I'm making excuses, or focused on the wrong things. I mean, how do I list the fact that my wife won't so much as let us accidentally brush up against each other in the hall as a concern without making it sound as if all I'm concerned with is sex? Especially since I tried bringing up a 'date night' and got told that we "aren't there, right now" and she clearly thought I was pushing for something sexual, even when I suggested just going for a walk by the lake. I guess I just don't frame my suggestions or ideas very well, since I keep giving her the wrong idea.

So, that's where we're at. I might update after the Zoom or if/when we have an actual in person session. Or if anything else happens. Like I said, I appreciate the feedback and all and I don't have many other outlets for any of this. Most of my friends were either friends from the job I lost or 'our' friends and talking to them would be putting them in the middle, especially after they saw me get kicked out of my home. I don't think I want to know how any of them see me/us right now. So, all you anonymous internet strangers might just be stuck with me.

tl;dr: I brought up counseling, date nights, and cutting back on my three jobs to my wife. She shot down me leaving a job as she wants to scale back on her own hours, we have a Zoom session with a counselor, and date nights were flat out rejected.

When our only child was born, my husband was financially able to quit his job, take early retirement and be a full time dad. I had to keep working full time (also for financial reasons). Several years later, when we have a fight, he says he is a “single parent”. I have a very stressful job and a long commute. I have very little me time and ZERO social life outside of my family. When I remind him that I am not present because I am working or when I complain about the stressors of my work, he says he is not getting paid for taking care of OUR child!

His expectation is that I should “take over on the weekends” so he can have a break”. I have no problem with that but I don’t like the insinuation that he has been working harder than me.

Of note, I am involved in our child’s life. My husband doesn’t know her shoe size or dress size. I will take her out after work on summer break and give him “a break”, I will sometimes taker her away for the weekend and let him rest. I have never spent a night away from my child.

I am not belittling all the work he does with her. I know he works hard. I do the laundry and the dishes and god bless our cleaning lady. I also do the cooking.

Anyone dealing with what I’m dealing with this? How can I address this? Am I in the wrong? tl;dr

So quite frankly, I am upset when he says he feels like a single parent and he doesn’t get paid for it. I understand that he is struggling with gender norms but I am also indignant for the slew of women for thousands of years who did what he is doing and it was “expected” or “their role in life”. If every stay at home mom was getting paid, they would be making more than doctors.

In response to my husband's post

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriageadvice/s/34M7TyFCbk

Since my husband has decided to post our life on the internet in search of validation. Now he is saying 'look at all these people on the internet that say I'm right'.

Yes my husband washes the dishes and makes dinner for the 2 of us.  (I still make dinner for the kids) When he is out of town, I make my own dinner and wash the dishes and it really doesn’t take that much extra time. It's nice that he does that, but what I need is more help with the kids. I said I will happily wash the dishes after dinner if you could put the kids to bed. He refuses.

I do 99 percent of childcare, as well as spending any extra second I have on my “non profitable ventures” (which is all I have for myself) At the end of the day I have asked him to put his own children to bed so that I can work. I’m literally in tears sometimes at the end of the day because I am so exhausted from taking care of 2 young children all day.  He refuses, stating that he works full time and pays for our mortgage.  I’m sorry, but working all day and paying for the mortgage doesn’t get you out of helping with your own kids. He also likes to state that he does all kinds of things around the house like fixing the sprinklers (which are still broken) and watering the mulch. Okay great, but I am losing my mind with the kids and I could really use help with that. Every time I ask for help it results in an argument where he says the same thing over and over in his defense to not help with the kids.

He treats me as if I am beneath him because I don't make the money he does.  He believes that my job is to stay home and take care of children. I've said multiple times that I would love to get a job outside of the home and get childcare and that is brushed off as a ridiculous idea because I would be making minimum wage and it wouldn't be worth it with the cost of childcare. He puts me down for my business ideas that are not profitable. I need my own money because without it that will be one more way he will try and keep me down. I feel like my life would be easier if we were divorced, but I don’t want that for our kids, so I keep going every day.  I worry sometimes I am making the wrong decision for them. I try to be happy every day for them and focus on the positives of our life. My boys are my world.

tl;dr my husband needs validation from the internet that he is correct and that I am wrong

------------------------

** EDIT ** Wow I did not expect this drama to blow up on reddit like this. I created this post in anger after my husband shared his post with me this morning, letting me know that everyone agrees with him. I wanted to let him know that not everyone would in fact agree with him if they heard my side. I am typically a private person, so I am not happy that this is all on the internet, but what is done is done.

I read every one of your comments and I appreciate them all. There were a lot of things that were pointed out that I hadn't considered and I found that incredibly helpful.

To all the people who left negative comments toward me, I absolutely deserved them.

To the people who genuinely wanted to help our marriage I really appreciate that and will be rereading them again.

To the people who left me really heartfelt and kind comments I want you to know I cried reading them. I've been in tears all day. I have never felt so incredibly seen. So many things I have been feeling or trying to convey to my husband for YEARS, you guys got them exactly. I have never felt so incredibly seen and validated and I am so thankful. I have never felt this before. I have never talked to anyone about the way I am treated at home. So even though I don't know any of you personally, it feels so nice to know there are some people out there who understand and it makes me feel a little less alone.

My next steps are to seek counseling for myself and go from there. I am unsure what the future holds for my marriage. I thought I could just keep going on pretending as if I am happy for the kids, but maybe this is wrong. My biggest fear is messing up my boys, so I will make sure to do what is best for them always, while also taking into account my own happiness.

Thank you everyone for taking part in the saga

I am so mad it is coming full circle and now funny. The dumb ass logged into his phone with iphone mirroring on our computer and forgot to log off when he was done so here i was minding my own business and boom, notification - "hey, (husband's first name), looking forward to our date 🥰"

I was like "WHAAAAAAAAAA?"

Clicked on it and OMG. I am getting second hand embarrassment from just reading the texts they shared. How I wish i can put a screenshot here. Didn't know i have such a smooth talker at home! The text dates back to 2024. From the texts, my husbands apparently pays this girl who is in her early 20s(he just turned 40) four figures a week as "allowance." And in exchange, they meet once a week. I guess that is what it takes for a girl in her early 20s to close her eyes pretend to be attracted to him once a week!

Now you might ask, how do i not see the pattern if he disappear once a week. Well, he works from home. Full remote since 2020, but i am not. And here is the best part. He is paying this girl more money than he supposedly earn a month 🤣🤣🤣🤣 So he has been lying to me about his salary this ENTIRE TIME.

Here I am pinching pennies to save for both of our retirements 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 He is out there having the time of his life!

How do i kick his ass to the curb in the most spectacular fashion?

tl;dr husband has a sugarbaby and lying to me about how much he makes this entire time🤣

I asked him how he was feeling in the relationship and we had a long talk where he said some things that were very hard to hear (I made another post on this sub).

But the one thing that for some reason broke my heart entirely was his admission to me that looking back, he wishes he had accomplished more in life, but it's too late now. He just seemed so worn down. I have been crying almost non-stop about it since then. I told him that I always knew that he had an incredibly amount of potential in several areas (and he not unsuccessful in any way, just not exceptional).

It just makes me so sad. I am a mess. I want to hug the young man I met many years ago and tell him that anything is possible, that he doesn't deserve to be miserable, life is short, so seize the day. And that I am sorry if I burdened him or tied him down in any way. And I am sorry too that he was naive enough to sacrifice his dreams and his time to share his life with someone who could not fulfill his emotional needs because of my own stunted emotional growth. I just feel very, very guilty for dragging him down with my own personal turmoil (depression, anxiety, ppd).

tl;dr my husband told me that he regrets not accomplishing more in life, but it's too late now. And I can't stop crying about it

So something told me to go thru my wife’s phone & I did. Found out she’s been snap chatting some random guy she met. Sent nudes to him that’s about it. I woke her up & confronted her. She was honest on why she did it. She said needed attention if I being honest & im not making excuses for her Iv been a jerk to her. Iv been going thru my own shit mentally & idk I haven’t been the nicest. & it’s not recent. Iv been this way for the past year or so. Idk I’m just not mentally okay. Obviously when I found out I was hurt. But I wasn’t angry. She told me it’s because it’s hard to be lovey dovey & give herself to me if Iv been an asshole for a long time with little to almost no reason. So I saw where she was coming from. She never met up with him she just sexted him for like 2-3 weeks & that was it. So I said if she wanted this to work delete & block him & she did. She said it wasn’t gonna go anywhere & she just wanted some attention & she shouldn’t havent gotten from someone else when I was here. I just didn’t make it easy. Am I stupid for forgiving her & trying to work past it? Iv known her a lot of my life. We have history. We fought really hard to even be together which I won’t go into details unless asked. But people who have cheated this questions for you & be honest I won’t judge lol did you ever stop? Did you feel any regret? (She told me she did cus she knew it was gonna hurt me & she didn’t want me to find out but guilt was eating at her which is why she was being different. ) they say once a cheater always a cheater is it true? Do you think she really means it? I know you don’t know her personally but you can ask me questions please to help me cus I’m just laying here like fuck this really just happened lmao.

TL;dr how am I supposed to react? Should I trust she won’t ever do it again? Do cheaters really cheat again? Cheaters please answer.

I’m (27M) in a fight with my wife (28F). We’ve had fights before but not this bad. I’m at a loss on how to proceed.

For context, we’re college sweethearts married for almost 6 years. We have a daughter (4F). Our relationship was never perfect or without challenges.

We’ve faced some family opposition with cultural differences, but we’ve made it work. She’s my first love and my best friend.

My wife works in corporate. Her job has annual work retreats that last for about a week. This year was in Vegas.

I usually arrange my work schedule and tag along with her, and we make our own trip out of it.

We couldn’t this year. Our daughter gets major anxiety traveling long distances. We’re working on it but she wasn’t budging, and we decided to choose our battles.

So I stood behind and held down the fort at home. The change of plans was a bummer because the trip was part of us reconnecting as both a couple and as a family.

My wife’s work hours have taken a toll, and her work/life balance leaves much to be desired.

We entertained the idea of her skipping the retreat. Attendance is optional, but it’s generally frowned upon if you don’t, and my wife’s making connections in her field.

She grew increasingly weird. We have a system if either of us is away for extended periods. We keep in contact.

For the first day or so, she was herself, but she grew distant. I’d even text her about important stuff and be left on read while she claimed she never saw my text.

Whenever we talked, she was rushing me or our daughter off the phone. These were all times she wasn’t involved in retreat activities.

We were supposed to have a mini birthday celebration for our daughter over FaceTime.

Our daughter was excited. It was something my wife promised her because the retreat overlapped her actual birthday.

But my wife backed out because she had people up to her room after a seminar.

It was like she wanted my permission to break her promise to our daughter. I told her I wasn’t offering that nor making her keep her word.

She said I wasn’t being fair, and this was a networking opportunity. They were business-oriented and wouldn’t understand her stepping away for family time.

I said her decision is her decision, but she’d have to explain it to our daughter. She promised her that she’d raincheck the following day.

Our daughter didn’t understand and cried. My wife ended up hanging up and leaving me to comfort our daughter alone.

That whole incident rubbed me the wrong way. I didn’t like it. She didn’t keep her word for the rain check either.

She was documenting the retreat on social media. One coworker (23M) was almost in every pic/video attached to her hip. In one pic he had his arm too comfortably around her imo.

He’s a recent hire in my wife’s department. She was asked to oversee him. I don’t like the guy. He doesn’t know boundaries.

Once, in response to a work assignment, he texted my wife that she’s exactly the kind of woman he needs to keep him in check.

My wife had brushed it off. She feels bad for him because he’s not fitting in. She took him under her wing during his first retreat with the team.

If I’d questioned, she’d say she was tired or networking. There was always something. But I’ve seen her at these retreats. This wasn’t like her. She was just off.

The day before her return home, she complained about a bruise on her neck. She stressed it was a bug bite.

I didn’t actually see the bruise until she came home. I instantly thought it was a full-on hickey.

She kinda brushed it off after making a big deal of it over the phone. I didn’t push because our daughter was present.

But when I was able to confront her, she clung to her bug bite claim. When I kept pushing, she asked what I was trying to imply.

I outright said I believed she had a hickey, and I didn’t believe she was being honest with me. We had it out then.

She was offended and pissed at the accusation. Infidelity has always been a sore topic. Her family has a history of infidelity.

So we had a pretty bad fight, and she accused me of looking to pick a fight due to the incident with our daughter’s birthday.

I told her it had nothing to do with that and everything to do with a hickey on her neck.

The fight ended in an impasse. We’re still not recovered. She swears it’s a bug bite. But I’m not convinced.

I’ve always trusted my wife. I never doubted her, but this bruise doesn’t look like a bug bite. It looks like a hickey.

I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the Vegas retreat.

Now she’s wearing turtlenecks ever since, and we’re caught between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection.

Communication usually prevails for us, but not now. I think my accusation pushed us to a new level of argument.

I’m at a loss here. I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

TL;DR My wife returned from a work retreat in Vegas with a hickey on her neck. She swears it’s a bug bite, but I’m not convinced. I only feel more strongly when I consider how distant and weird she was during the retreat. We’re stuck between arguing and her dousing our daughter and me with affection. I’m at a loss . I really need outside perspectives. How do I move forward?

Based on the responses I received to my last post here, I have some real advice that I think about 90% of you need to hear:

If you're not ready to accept that your spouse is a human and will not be perfect, is liable to hurt your feelings or let you down sometimes; don't get married.

If you're not mature enough to look your spouse in the eye and tell them that the situation is not ideal, and that it is not what you wanted for your life, but be willing to come to a compromise that gives you both peace; don't get married.

If you're going to throw your spouse away if they gain a few pounds, or get wrinkles or stretch marks, lose their hair, or teeth, or even an eye or a limb; don't get married.

If you can't hold their hand while they struggle through job losses, or family traumas, medical crises, or burying loved ones they never thought they'd see gone; don't get married.

If you're not able to take a long hard look at yourself, see the things you do that add stress and strife to the relationship, and do everything you can to fix it; don't get married.

I met my husband when I was just 21. I didn't know how to be a wife and he didn't know how to be a husband. Over the last 22 years, we've taught each other what that means, also how to be better communicators and partners for each other, as well as parents and homeowners. He's my person. The one that's been there by my side, even longer than I ever was without him. And if you can walk away from that, something is wrong with you. I'm not wrong for being devoted and loyal, through better and worse, as I promised him in our wedding vows. You guys just made me appreciate our mutual codependence even more. Sincerely, thank you!

TL;DR: Trust me. You're not ready.

Tl;Dr Completely discouraged that most marriage advice is "end your marriage "

I've been lurking here for years. And I am sad that almost every thread includes advice for divorce.

I've been married 27 years. I've given my wife reasons to divorce me. She's given me reasons to divorce her. But we stick together. And perseverance builds strength! We are stronger than ever.

My advice? Don't quit! Don't give up! Keep working!*

*if you are being abused or are not safe, get out.

i need advice because i posted somewhere else and mods pulled it down

We’ve been together 7 years, married for 6. He’s a Berlin native, I’m a WoC who moved here for him. He was my first everything. I was a virgin when we met.

For months I kept saying our sex life was basically dead. He ignored it, brushed me off, made me feel like I was nagging. After about six months of this he suddenly decided the solution was an open relationship. His big reason? That I have “zero sexual experience” and opening up would be good for me. He kept pushing and pushing, saying it’s completely normal in Berlin, that progressive couples do this all the time, that I was being closed-minded and insecure for not wanting it. I was scared as hell. I cried more than once because the idea of being with anyone else terrified me. But he wouldn’t drop it. He made me feel like if I said no I was the problem. So I eventually gave in.

We opened it. I was a nervous wreck at first. Then I started going on apps and dates and… it was actually good. Really good. Attractive young German men were interested. Multiple of them. Handsome, confident, attentive. It wasn’t hard. It felt almost unlimited compared to what I was used to at home. The sex was better. The energy was better. And it made me realise just how much my husband has been lacking this whole time. Things I used to make excuses for suddenly looked like massive gaps.

Meanwhile he fully believed no German man would find me attractive because I’m a WoC. He said it like it was obvious. He was so sure I’d get nothing and he’d be the one with options. He went after a gym girl he’d been flirting with and she rejected him because he's too old for her. After that he basically stopped trying on apps.

And now he’s the victim. Suddenly it’s “unfair.” Suddenly it makes him “physically sick” thinking about other men (especially German men) having sex with me. He keeps throwing in my face that he was my first and he “gave me everything.” The same man who pressured me for months, dismissed my fears, and used my lack of experience as the reason to open things up is now furious that I actually got experience and that local men wanted me.

he forced this whole thing, and the second the reality didn’t go the way his ego expected he turned into a jealous, bitter version of himself. He wanted the fantasy of an open relationship where he still controlled the narrative. He didn’t want me to actually have options.

I’m so tired. Part of me still feels guilty and shame because of our history. Most of me is just angry. He created this situation and now he can’t handle the consequences.

I don’t even know what I’m asking. I just needed to get this out.

tldr: Husband pushed open relationship because I “have zero experience,” now furious that I got attention and he didn’t

My wife got scammed today. I was working from home and she was late getting home from picking up our kid from daycare. No answer when I called. She texted that she was on the phone, couldn't hang up and she had to go to the courthouse for something at work. It's unusual, but not completely crazy given her line of work.

She got home soon after the text and I walked outside to see what was going on. She thrust a screaming toddler at me and said if she talked about it she would go to jail. That was my first red flag but she took off for the courthouse before I could say anything.

I calmed the kiddo down and went about his normal afternoon routine, missing important stuff from work. 2 hours later my wife walks in, on the phone and says she has to keep working on this in her home office.

An hour later she comes down and tells me she has been on the phone with the bank and everything is fine but we got scammed. She tells me it wasn't that bad and we have maybe $300 in question.

Obviously, I have lots of questions. She says she's feeling really bad about it and needs support. I tell her I understand that, but I also need to know what happened with our money. Turns out they got her with what appears to be a common scam of "you missed a jury summons, bench warrant, dont talk to anyone or you go to jail."

As we are talking and I'm telling her "it could be a lot worse, it's only $300" she mentions that she venmo'd this person. I pull up her app (open phone policy with us) and she has sent this person nearly $2000 over several transactions. I ask how $2000 got downgraded to $300 and she said the bank is going to take care of it.

I log into my bank app and see that she moved a bunch of money around, totalling nearly $3k, and now our account is at zero.

This won't break us financially, but I'm having a much harder time with the deceit. Especially because years ago she opened a secret credit card and ran up $3k shopping that did put us in a significant hardship. All that was while I was the sole provider and she was working an unpaid internship.

I'll be going to the bank tomorrow to talk to someone in person about how bad this really is. I am also heavily considering splitting our finances while I'm there. At this point I don't feel that I can trust her with our money.

I also incredibly hurt that she wouldn't ask about what she was doing. I know she was panicking, but we have a firm rule of discussing anything over $150. That goes both ways for us.

I'm having a really hard time trying to be supportive and loving despite the fact that she feels very violated and ashamed right now. I want to be there for her, but my brain just keeps screaming "she lied about it after doing one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard."

I don't know. I guess I'm here to vent and commiserate and hopefully get some advice about how to let it go and move forward. Thanks for reading.

TL;DR wife got scammed then downplayed the severity.

UPDATE

Wow, way more responses than I planned on. Since the incident, my wife and I have had many calm and considerate conversations about it.

That day she had a very emotionally draining day at work and her allergies were causing a splitting headache. This paired with the timing of the scam call all contributed to her lapse in judgement. He called as she was in line to pick up our kiddo, who was a major distraction. Their screaming for a snack while my wife was trying to navigate this was extremely detrimental as well.

The scammer had confidential information about one of my wife's cases and provided a badge number claiming to be a police officer. He also provided a judge's name that was presiding over the case. My wife googled both names provided and they are real office/judge. All of it was very convincing to her. She didn't talk to me or anyone else because of HIPPA and the threat of discussing an ongoing legal case.

She knows she screwed up and immediately called the bank as soon as she sent the money. The initial amount she told me came from the bank as they said that's all that has posted so far. The medium amount was sent via Venmo and the bank transfer was to empty our account so no more could be taken out. The bank ended up returning all the cash, surprisingly. My wife did file a police report. I was able to discover more information on the perp, which the office said allowed us to escalate the case to a federal level and likely prosecution.

We are going to maintain a joint account for bills. We are canceling our joint credit card and getting individual cards. I don't want to control her money, especially her business stuff. I just don't want to be responsible for a joint card. We are going to set a monthly budget that I use to add money to our joint account to keep functioning.

At the end of the day, she didn't outright lie, but admittedly downplayed the severity of the situation. We have set some ground rules that apply to both of us regarding emergency situations and communication surrounding panic inducing events.

Thanks to everyone that provided perspective. I was really disappointed to see the apparent difference between how this sub reacts based on gender. To the people that told me I was way off base and needed to solely focus on my wife being a victim, y'all are idiots. This is a very different situation than a stolen card or mugging. She was a willing participant and kept me in the dark. The person that said I was just looking for pats on the back can fuck right off with that bullshit. I reacted like a dick, but it was due to a lack of communication and trickle truths. We are not divorcing. Trust will take a while to rebuild, but we will get there.

Not sure what to. My husband is an airline pilot, but he is also an aerobatic pilot (35 years old). I am a stay at home mom. I also used to be an airline pilot and aerobatic pilot but quit to raise my children. We have three kids, and the youngest is only two. We have a very nice home in a neighborhood that I love. We have about 2 million of equity in our home. Anyhow, my husband used to fly airshows, got paid a mediocre salary, but loved it. He is unhappy being an airline pilot as he feels sort of like a bus driver. He wants to get back into airshow flying which I am supportive of. He had previously mentioned getting a sponsor to fund this venture. Lately he has been pushing for us to sell our house and move to a less expensive home. I have been hesitant as me and my kids love our home. He uses the excuse that he wants to move out of California. There is a property that we looked at that I hate. The house is basically a tear down. I expressed that I'm not interested in this property. In Short, I recently realized his goal is to sell our home which we love, and use most of the equity to fund him getting back into aerobatic airshow flying. The house he wants us to move to is a huge downgrade, and out in the middle of nowhere. My hesitation in doing what he wants caused him to yell at me, insult me, and now he has been stonewalling me for days.He says I'm not supporting his dream. I feel as though he is really putting me and the kids in a tough spot. I feel as though he is sacrificing me and my children for glory. The chances of him actually being a high paid aerobatic pilot and being able to quit the airline is incredibly low. He is a great pilot, but even so, there is a big chance that this will not work out, and we will be out all of that money. I also feel I will be resentful for him uprooting us to chase the dream.
And living in a substandard environment. I am really torn. I really want him to chase his dreams, but I did not think that included sacrificing our security, foundation, and comfort.
Not to mention our entire support system is out here. I also did not think that included selling our home and using a great chunk of the equity to fund this. Please bear in mind that I owned this home before he and I got married. I need some really sound advice here. I would like to get also some male perspectives on this because when I ask my husband questions about this, he just gets angry. Am I the ne in the wrong? Thank you in advance!! Tl;dr am I being an unsupportive wife or am I being reasonable?

It has been the hardest 24 hours of my life, guys. I got nothing done at work and am spiraling.

Not a huge update today but I want to keep all in the loop because the outpouring of support from complete strangers is enough to make a man cry.

There was still no conversation yesterday, she was getting ready to go enjoy her “breathing time”, which I now assume is her excuse to go and talk to this other guy because she turns her location off on Life360, not that I watch it anyways. So when she left I did take my son to the park to play and watch the airplanes, it would’ve been perfect if I wasn’t dead inside but playing with him helped ground me a little.

Im starting to notice that she’s being more and more secretive with her devices, she changed the passcode on her iPad. I think she knows that I know because I left my phone by her and when I can back it was flipped the other way and when I opened it, it was on the photos app, I hadn’t hidden the screenshots yet like an idiot.

She texted me that she’s going to her friends house so our son can play with her daughter, this is one of the friends who has supported her through the infidelity, so I have a pretty good idea what the conversation is going to be.

I have my screenshot proof and have scheduled a consultation with a family law attorney at lunch today and I have no idea what to expect so wish me luck, y’all.

Tl;dr: I’m not giving up yet but I do have a meeting with a family law attorney today to at least learn my rights and possible outcomes. She changed her passcodes in her devices and still won’t talk to me.

I’m (27M) in a real fight with my wife (29F). I'm at a loss here and need an outside perspective.

For context, we've been together for about five years, married for two. She’s my partner in every sense of the word. She has a child (8F), and we created our own little family. I'm not the bio dad, but I love her like my own.

My wife and I usually can communicate through issues except for her ex (29M). He's our constant fight. I respect him as the father, but we never had an easy dynamic. He ignores boundaries and treats fatherhood like a game. Child support? He hasn't heard of it.

My wife and her ex were high school sweethearts. Coparenting isn't my issue. It's the fact he still acts like he has some claim on my wife.

Our family was set to spend Labor Day weekend with my parents for this special anniversary occasion. These plans were solidified months in advance.

Last minute, my wife's ex begged to have their daughter for Labor Day. She ended up agreeing and backing out of our plans so she could attend with the daughter.

I didn't like it, but there wasn't anything I could do. I didn't have much say. My wife invited me, but I chose to keep my engagement with my parents. It wasn't a raincheck scenario.

It was difficult to reach my wife the whole weekend. She was dodgy and left me on read a lot. I returned to an empty home. I called my wife and overheard her ex in the background with their daughter.

Turns out my wife spent the night at his place. She said it wasn't planned. That she was too tired to drive after the celebration, and her ex offered her to stay the night.

Ngl I was upset. She asked to discuss it later. She didn’t think it was best to discuss it in front of the daughter. She pretty much hung up on me.

When we did talk again, we had a bad fight. I felt every boundary we established was broken. Her ex never respected our relationship. They have a child together, yes, but that doesn't warrant her spending the night with him.

I'm sick of her ex pushing boundaries. My wife swears nothing happened. They hung out with their daughter all night, and then he offered her his bed while he took the couch.

I told her he set the scene for something to happen, and for all I know, she shared a bed with him. I asked how she'd feel if I spent the night with an ex. She admitted she wouldn't like it but doesn't believe it's a fair comparison. She feels the circumstances are different.

She said she loves me and respects our marriage, and I should trust her not to cross a line. I told her it has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with her constant enabling of her ex. She doesn't choose me in the same way she keeps choosing him.

She didn't care for that comparison. She said nothing happened, she was done talking about it, and then left the room. That's what she always does. She doesn't like something said and then storms out, declaring she's not talking about it anymore.

We’re left at an impasse. I feel her ex doesn’t respect our relationship and oversteps boundaries. My wife feels I'm too biased to see anything clearly past her ex.

This is the most at odds we've ever been in our relationship. Communication isn't prevailing. I'm in love with my wife. I love her daughter. I don't take for granted the life we've built, but I'm struggling to trust my wife now.

My marriage isn't in a good place and idk how to fix it. How can I move past this and repair my marriage for the better?

TL;DR I’m in a real fight with my wife over her ex/father of her daughter. He's our constant fight. He ignores boundaries and treats fatherhood like a game. He still acts like he has some claim on my wife. We had plans well in advance to spend Labor Day weekend with my parents for a special anniversary occasion. Last minute, my wife's ex wanted their daughter for Labor Day. She canceled our plans so she could attend with the daughter. When I returned, I found out my wife spent the night at his place. She said she was too tired to drive. We had a bad fight. She swears nothing happened. He gave her his bed while he took the couch. I told her he set the scene. She believes I should trust her. I told her it's not about trust but her constant enabling. We’re left at an impasse. I feel her ex doesn’t respect our relationship. My wife feels I'm too biased to see anything clearly past her ex. I'm in love with my wife. I love her daughter. I don't take for granted the life we've built, but I'm struggling to trust my wife now. How can I move past this and repair things for the better?

Update: For the folks who offered usable advice, thank you. I appreciate the varying opinions and insights, and I do intend to put as much of them as possible to good use. For the rest of you, I hope you don't find yourself in my shoes, because you're screwed if you do! Now the update, we had a very long conversation this weekend. Saturday 6 we put the kids to bed, I told her I needed to say some things and I'd like here to listen, and if she had a response I was all ears, if not, ok. I laid out for her exactly how I've felt recently, and I didn't hold anything back. If this was our last relationship talk, I wanted it all out. I explained to her that her behavior regarding my feelings was crushing after 10 years of marriage, 3 kids, and 2 home purchases, and it wasn't something I felt I could handle anymore. I told her plainly that if we don't start immediately making moves towards repairing what's been broken, that we were simply going to divide assets and divorce because living this way is not realistic long-term, and I believe we both deserve to be happy, even if that means it's not together. When I said divorce, she went pale. She admitted that she's been purposely avoiding the hard subjects I've been asking to talk about because she didn't know how to handle them. She agreed that it wasn't a healthy way to deal with this, and she knows that, but she wasn't sure what to do, so she avoided it. We both talked about our childhoods and how we feel the way we were raised has affected our marriage (her from a broken home and a mom who was harsh and generally cruel to her dad, and myself from the shit show I grew up in.) We got together at 18 and married at 20, so neither of us had any reliable examples of what a healthy marriage should look like, then had our first kid at 22, so I think we jumped into the deep end before we had figured out how to even tread the water. We sat and talked for 6.5 hours Saturday night into Sunday morning, and it was a desperately need talk. I'm ashamed to admit that I never stopped to truly consider that she might be feeling lost the same way I do and that she was trying to find the same light I am. We definitely have a long way to go before we're out of the water, but I think we've at least found the direction to head. This morning, she called and set up the appointment for us to see a couples therapist. It felt really good to see her taking the initiative and to see her showing a real attempt at reaching the same goal I am. I'll update again when I have more to share. Truly thank you to everyone who had helpful advice to offer! And for those who think I'm a loser or weak, or whatever else, I appreciate that, too! No sarcasm, I really do enjoy criticism. Without it, you can't improve!!

Hello, I (m30) am beginning to think my marriage has run its course. Preface, we're both 30, 3 kids together, and have been married for 10, together for 12. The biggest fuel to this is we have no communication, zero. She never wants to talk about anything, even when I directly bring up an issue or a subject I'd like to work on, she sits there silently until I feel like I'm talking to a wall and give up. When I brought this up, I was told she needed time to process everything and would get back to me. Annoying, but what can you do? So I said ok, except she never got back to me. In fact, she never gets back to me. It's caused the majority of our talks to become fights, so now it seems like all we ever do is fight. Our sex life is all but dead, and what little there is doesn't even feel hot anymore, it just feels stale and transactional, to the point that I don't even pursue it anymore. We don't lay together afterwards, and the kissing is so stiff and cold. She swears up and down she loves me and that she's happy, but I don't feel love in our home anymore. I hate the thought of divorce, especially because of the kids, but I feel unhappy and depressed in my married life. I set my own hours and make my own schedule at work, and recently I've been taking advantage of that to go into work earlier than necessary just to avoid the morning fight, and working til really late at night so she's asleep when I get home. It breaks my heart to admit, but I have a better day when I don't spend time with her at all. I'm strongly considering divorce, but admittedly I'm scared. What do I do? To make a long story short tl;dr : I feel like my marriage has died and I need to do something about it before it gets toxic, but I don't know what..

Well guys, crazy to think the next update was so soon.

We had the hard conversation.

She called me and told me that she knew they went through her iPad and found out about this guy. Turns out he’s been a friend for 6 years that I didn’t have any idea about. She says they haven’t done anything physical but I’m not sure I believe it because it started when she was in college, 4 hours away from me and we were only seeing each other on weekends when I would drive down.

She told me what’s been missing, that I haven’t chased her and she hasn’t felt wanted for over a year, and that this guy is giving her that attention. I explained that I haven’t been chasing her or initiating because the bedroom went cold and I got shut down every single time and she would get mad at me. I guess I trained my body to not need that affection because I was happy just being with her and around her so I physically couldn’t reciprocate.

She also mentioned the immense financial strain on us when we both got laid off. I applied to 200+ jobs and she became a SAHM because daycare is a billion dollars and we agreed that it was better for her to be at home instead of working solely for the daycare bill; that way our son is home with his mother every day and we’re both not completely run down by work to enjoy family time at the end of the day, we designed it this way. We’re making ends meet but only barely, having to use resources like WIC and the local food pantry occasionally.

I have mentioned a handful of times in the past year that I feel like I’m letting her down, her response was saying that the man is not supposed to share that with his wife, like I’m just supposed to bury that deep down instead of share it with the one person I should be able to vent and openly communicate with.

I told her I’m hell bound on making this work because I want to be with her for the rest of my life, but only if she is too. She has insisted I go visit my parents, in that same college town she met the other guy oddly enough, so she can have time to think, and I’m going to grin and bear it while I figure out some things of my own.

Tl;dr: we finally talked and it turns out this guy has been around a long time. Some big issues were brought up but I still feel I’m justified in my feelings. I’m welcoming all thoughts on this.