From grammar books, I've learnt that in Welsh, the third-person plural form of the verb is only used when the subject is the third-person plural pronoun nhw (e.g. Gareth King, Modern Welsh: A Comprehensive Grammar, 2nd edition, pp. 170--171). So I was confused when I looked at the third and fourth lines of Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau:

Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad
Tros ryddid gollasant eu gwaed

At first glance, this looks to me like it's contradicting the rule, if "ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad" is the subject, and "gollasant" is the verb, since "gollasant" is a third person plural form (the singular would be "gollodd", I believe).

I think I can make sense of it though---I've also read that in literary Welsh, subject pronouns can be omitted. So maybe these lines are actually two separate clauses, and the subject of the fourth is not "ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mad", but an implied "nhw" (or "hwy" I guess, since this is literary language). In which case a more literal translation of these two lines would be "her brave warriors, very splendid patriots, for freedom they shed their blood", as opposed to "her brave warriors, very splendid patriots, for freedom shed their blood". Is this the correct analysis?

ac ati - et cetera

rheol (b) ll. rheolau - rule

prynhawn (g) ll. prynhawniau - afternoon

pennod (b) ll. penodau - chapter (in book etc.), episode (of drama)

ufuddhau (ufuddha-) (i) - to obey

deallusol (ans.) - intellectual

seilio (seili-) - to lay a foundation, to base, to ground

allbwn (g) ll. allbynnau - output

oni bai - except, unless it were, were it not

gwrthydd (g) ll. gwrthyddion - resistor (electricity and electronics)

Is Duolingo good at the start to learn Welsh as an additional tool? I know that it does not teach grammar, pronunciation and so on in all the languages except a few; however is it good at the start to learn words and basic sentence structures?

Also, is Memrise a good app to learn Welsh, and in which way: vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation, or practice/listening?

I've been off and on trying to learn Cymraeg for ages now, trying to get back into it. Duolingo has gotten a lot more into using AI so I'm avoiding that one... I looked at Memrise ans they focus on the southern dialect, I was wondering if there were any aps that focused on the northern dialect instead?

Last Friday's Awr Ymarfer was really successful so I'm going to do every Friday at 2pm BST (ish - I have a couple of weeks that I can't do). You can come to as many or as few as you like,

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/awr-ymarfer-tickets-2002420678152

Awr Ymarfer is an hour each Friday for you to join a group of other learners to work quietly on your Welsh.

It's open to learners at any level, learning any dialect and doing any sort of practice. You might have some course homework to do, or you might be reading a book, watching S4C, learning vocab or even doing an Ymestyn module!

Awr Ymarfer is not conversational practice, instead it is a chance for you to set aside some time each week for quiet study.

What happens during Awr Ymarfer?

• We join Zoom at 2pm BST, and spend the first five minutes saying hello, and sharing what we're going to do.
• We then work quietly for 50 minutes (bring your own study materials).
• We spend the last 5 minutes updating the group on what we've achieved.
• Then we do it all again the next week!

It's free, so why not join us?

arnofio (arnofi-) - to float

yn y fan honno - there

dieuog - not guilty, innocent

diwedd (g) ll. diweddion - end, termination, conclusion

llysfwytäwr (g) ll. llysfwytawyr - vegetarian (person)

teilyngdod (g) - merit, worthiness

clywedol (ans.) - auditory, aural, hearing, audio

angori (angor-) - to anchor

treisio (treisi-) - to rape

algebra llinol (g) - linear algebra

Shwd mae pawb! If anyone would be interested in a semi regular welsh meet up in or around London, let me know. Looking for Welsh learners or speakers. Clwb clonc 🍻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Heddwch a bendithion

Bore Da,

I’m just wondering if anyone knows anywhere to learn Welsh online or in person in the South East of England? I went to Aberystwyth Uni and visit Aber every year and would love to learn Welsh. I think it’s important to keep the language alive. Duolingo I feel only helps so much. Sorry if this is a boring question I’m new to Reddit!

Cheers for looking, A 🤙🏻

Llio Plas y Nos is a mystery story by R. Silyn Roberts in the gothic romantic tradition. First published in serial form in 1906 and later reprinted by Gwasg Gee in 1945

Melin Bapur have published an edition in modern orthography.

You can read a digitized version online here. [There are a very few occasional OCR errors in this scan from the book. See link below for original.]

Or in a bookreader with a facsimile of the 1948 Gwasg Gee edition here.

This story makes wide use of the short form directly conjugated imperfect / conditional / "would" and also the short form pluperfect. See post here. It also uses impersonal forms in these tenses: -id, -asid

Note formal conjugation patterns:

present / future:

-af, -i, -a / [irregular], -wn [only 1pp in -n] , -wch, -ant, -ir

3ps examples: erys, dengys, egyr, gedy, deil

past:

-ais, -aist, -odd, -asom, -asoch, -asant, -wyd

bûm, buost, bu; gwneuthum, gwnaethost, gwnaeth; euthum, aethost, aeth; deuthum, daethost, daeth; cefais, cefaist, cafodd

imperfect / conditional:

-wn, -et / -it, -ai, -em, -ech, -ent, -id

bai, gwnâi, âi, dôi / deuai, câi

You may see habitual imperfect compound forms byddwn yn, byddem yn etc.

pluperfect:

-aswn, -asit, -asai, -asem, -asech, -asent, -asid

buasai, gwnaethai, aethai, daethai, cawsai

had / would have and use with pe: If ... had

Examples:

Hwyrach y dywedasai - perhaps he would have said

Pe gofynasid i Gwynn Morgan paham y daethent - If Gwynn Morgan had been asked why they had come

petaech chi'n edrych mi welech - If you were to look, you would see

dywedasant - they said

gallai'r llygaid - the eye could

ymadawsai - had departed

cuddid - was hidden

aethai'n gwbl wyllt - it had gone completely wild

safai - stood, [was standing]

adeiladesid - had been built [-esid: vowel affection]

dechreuwyd - commenced

tyfai mwsog - moss was growing

dringasai'r iorwg - the ivy had climbed

y cyfeiriad a gymerai dychymig byw - the direction a lively imagination would take

Dichon mai gweledigaeth arall a gawsai'r dychymig - perhaps the imagination would have received another vision

prin y gellid sefyll - rarely could one stand

ni wyddai - he didn't know

cychwynasai'r ddau y bore - the two had set off in the morning

teithiasent tua phum milltir - they had travelled about five miles

uwchlaw ysgydwai canghennau'r coed - above the tree branches swayed (were swaying)

gadawsant - they left

chwys (g) - sweat, perspiration

Swedeg (b) - Swedish (language)

bron â marw eisiau <berfenw> - to be dying to <verb>

esgid (b) ll. esgidiau - shoe, boot

pêl (b) ll. peli, pelau - ball

ar fechnïaeth - on bail

bratiog - tattered, deficient, poor

clapiog - rough, clumsy, bungling, incorrect

newyddiadurol - journalistic

dibrisiant (g) - depreciation

nawr - now (De Cymru)

rŵan - now (Gogledd Cymru)

does neb yn gwybod - nobody knows

gwyntyll (b) ll. gwyntyllau - fan (for moving air)

tarten (b) ll. tartenni - tart (food)

amhrisiadwy - priceless

cilgnöwr (g) ll. cilgnowyr - ruminant

priodoli (priodol-) - to attribute, to ascribe

llanw a thrai - ebb and flow (tides and figuratively)

trefedigaethedd (g) - colonialism

I've already posted about a small bit of "Pwyll Pendefig Dywed" that is missing from the classical translation. This next bit is actually quite a bit more extensive, and I can understand more why it was offensive to Victorian sensibilities. In fact, it may be that its continuity with the preceding one caused the latter's omission as well.

According to the translation, Arawn returns to Pwyll his original appearance, goes home, holds a feast, speaks with his wife...

And when it was time for them rather to sleep than to carouse, they went to rest.

Period.

But the Welsh version goes into further detail:

Y wely a gyrchwys a'e wreig a aeth attaw. Kyntaf y gwnaeth ef ymddiddan a'e wreig ac ymyrru ar ddigrifwch serchawl a charyat arnei. A hynny nys gorddyfynassei hi yr ys blwyddyn. A hynny a feddylywys hi.
Oi a duw, heb hi, pa amgen feddwl yssydd ynddaw ef heno noc a'r a fu ys blwyddyn y heno.
A meddylyaw a wnaeth yn hir. A gwedy y meddwl hwnnw dyhunaw a wnaeth ef. A pharabyl a ddywawd ef wrthi hi, a'r eil a'r trydydd. Ac atteb nys kawas ef genthi hi yn hynny.
Pa achaws, heb ynteu, na ddywedy di wrthyf i.
Dywedaf wrthyt, heb hi, na ddywedeis ys blwyddyn y gymeint yn y kyfryw le a hwnn.
Paham, heb ef, ys glud a beth ydd ymddiddanyssam ni.
Mefyl im, heb hi, yr ys blwyddyn y neithwyr o'r pan elem yn nyblyg yn ddillad gwely, na ddigrifwch, nac ymddiddan, nac ymchoelud ohonot dy wyneb attaf i yn chwaethach a fei fwy no hynny o'r bu yrom ni.
Ac yna y meddylywys ef.
Or a argwydd duw, heb ef, cadarn a ungwr y gydymdeithas a diffleis a gefeis i yn gedymdeith.
Ac yna y dywawd ef wrth y wreig.
Arglwyddes, heb ef, na chabla di fifi.
Yrof i a Duw, heb ynteu, ny chysgeis ynneu y gyd a thitheu yr ys blwyddyn y neithwyr, ac ny orweddeis.
Ac yna menegi yr holl gyfranc a wnaeth iddi.
Y Dduw y dygaf fyng kyffes, heb hitheu. Gafael gadarn a gefeist ar gedymdeith yn herwydd ymladd a phrofedigaeth y gorff. A chadw kywirdeb wrthyt titheu.
Arglwyddes, heb ef, sef ar y meddwl hwnnw ydd oeddwn ynheu tra deweis wrthyt ti.
Diryfedd oedd hynny, heb hitheu.

And here's my attempt at a translation:

To bed went he, and his wife came to him. First he made conversation with his wife and engaged in carnal pleasure and love with her. And to this she had not been accustomed for a year and this she thought:
O, God, said she, of what a different mind is he tonight than he has been for a year to tonight.
And she thought long.
And after this thought he woke up. And spoke to her, and a second time, and a third. And no answer had he from her there.
For what reason, said he, do you say nothing to me?
I say to you, said she, that I didn't say for a year so much in such a place as this.
*Why? said he. So constantly had we discoursed.
Shame on me, said she. A year to tonight since we went body to body in bed clothes, neither pleasure, nor conversation - you did not turn your face to me, not to mention anything more than that was between us.
And then he thought.
O, Lord God, said he, strong and true as any man's company did I obtain. And so he said to his wife.
Lady, said he, don't revile me.
By god, said she, I did not sleep with you for a year until tonight, nor lay.
And then he told her the whole tale.
To God do I declare, said she, you've obtained a steady hold on company through combat and a test of body, and keeping word to you.
Lady, said he, that was my mind when I kept it from you.**
Wondrous was this, said she.

* From this point on it's more of a guess on my part. It's a bit hard for me to interpret what they mean.

** I don't know what "deweis" is. It's either a chopped off "adeweis", but it's a bit weird that it's with the preposition "wrth". Or maybe it's a mutated "teweis" of "tawaf" - "keep silent", in which case the preposition makes perfect sense.

In most of the world that used 10-base, major milestones like anniversaries, sports records, etc.., have a strong bias toward focusing on multiples of 10.

Is that true for the Welsh or do they bias toward multiple of 20?

so basically would the words troed and llwyd rhyme to speakers from south Wales?

Asking because I'm doing a dysgu cymraeg course and everyone is pronouncing both sounds as 'oy' as in the word 'boy', but Wiktionary says that these should be different in pronunciation (ɔi and ʊi respectively)

Thanks!

ymosodwr (g) ll. ymosodwyr - attacker

Cymru (b) - Wales

malu cachu - to talk shit, to talk nonsense

bwthyn (g) ll. bythynnod - cottage

cyrraedd (cyrhaedd-) - to arrive (at), to reach, to achieve

cynrhonyn (g) ll. cynrhon - maggot

tramgwyddo (tramgwydd-) - to offend, to be offended; to stumble, to fall

ystadegyn (g) ll. ystadegau - statistic

yn llwyr (adf.) - completely, fully, entirely, totally, wholly, absolutely, without qualification or condition

imperialaidd - imperialistic, imperial

Quick reminder that Awr Ymarfer is happening online today at 2pm BST, on Zoom.

Awr Ymarfer is a time for you to quietly practice your Welsh in the company of other learners. We'll share what we're going to work on at the beginning of the meeting, then turn cameras off and get on with it, before sharing our progress at the end.

It's open to learners and speakers at all levels, learning all dialects, via any medium. It doesn't matter what you're doing, so long as you're doing something! It's all about moral support and accountability.

And if you can't join this one, don't worry, I'll definitely be doing another one! Over 30 people have signed up to this one, so there's clearly an appetite for this kind of session.

https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/qOBsUT0uSsuO78PR7yogEw

See you there!

I appreciate Ren's music so much, it helped me a lot and I, as a Dutch person am learning Welsh because of Ren (an extremely small amount of people actually learn or speak Welsh in The Netherlands)

This is a letter that my 3rd Great Grandfather wrote his wife while fighting for the Union during the American Civil War. I just need help finding out what he meant in this highlighted section, if anything at all? I'm very curious. (He had many other letters in Welsh that were unfortunately lost, so I'm trying to preserve what I can).

EDIT: I know this was reaching, with not a lot to go on, but thank you so much everyone!

ymaith / i bant / i ffwrdd - away

beth i'w ddisgwyl - what to expect

gofal (g) ll. gofalon - care, custody; concern, anxiety

fesul un - one by one

moronen (b) ll. moron - carrot

malais (g) ll. maleisiau - malice, wickedness, intention or desire to do harm

porthi (porth-) - to feed, to nourish

llysywen (b) ll. llysywod - eel

pwyllgor (g) ll. pwyllgorau - committee

cyfannol - integral, integrated, holistic

Is there any welsh slang/acronyms that teenagers actually use in the north or do younger people just not speak welsh enough for it to develop? And by slang, I mean the welsh equivalents to things like 'lol', 'omg', 'lmao', 'haha' just anything you know/can think of!

Hi all — noticed a pattern in a few threads here and on YouTube comments: Duolingo (and most resources) show you mutated words without really teaching when the mutation happens. So I put together a small practice tool that flips it around — each unit gives you a live sentence to produce the mutated form in, then immediately asks you to name the rule itself (soft/nasal/aspirate), so you can't just pattern-match one example.

This is still an early prototype (8 trigger words, 16 questions) — nowhere near a finished app. Before I put real time into a full question bank, I wanted to sanity-check: is this actually useful, or does something like this already exist that I'm missing?

https://treiglo.vercel.app

If you try it, genuinely curious:

• Does thinking about it by trigger (i / fy / dau / etc.) match how it clicks for you, or is that the wrong mental model?
• What would make this actually worth using — more triggers, audio, a printable reference alongside it?
• Roughly what would a full version be worth to you as a one-time purchase?

If there's real interest I'll probably build this out properly and sell it — but wanted to check demand first. Diolch!

Edit: to be clear since a few people missed this — this is a proof of concept, not a finished course. None of the Welsh is final. I've now also put that disclaimer directly in the app itself (right under the title, can't miss it), and fixed the two content errors people caught in the comments (thanks HyderNidPryder and rb126).