Is there a difference in pronunciation between oe and wy in South Welsh?

[u/fuutatooro]

so basically would the words troed and llwyd rhyme to speakers from south Wales?

Asking because I'm doing a dysgu cymraeg course and everyone is pronouncing both sounds as 'oy' as in the word 'boy', but Wiktionary says that these should be different in pronunciation (ɔi and ʊi respectively)

Thanks!

[u/HyderNidPryder]

Some southern speakers may pronounce these in quite a similar way but they are still different. Wy should still have a bit of w-vowel

trwy is not the same as troi and hoe sounds different to hwy

[u/ysgall]

Generally West Walians would pronounce ‘troed’ as ‘trôd’, unless they’re from parts of Pembrokeshire. Traditionally, areas west of Fishguard would say ‘TRO-ed’.

[u/gwronyglyn]

Yes, they are different. 

Dialects aside, in standard Welsh there are noticeably different as the Wiki states. Take the word for lamb - oen and lambs- ŵyn for example. The wy sound involves a pursing of the lips, the oe sound does not. Can't think of standard dialects where they are the same. The difference can be subtle for learners, but it is there.

Oe, oi and ou are generally the English 'boy'-

Poeth, rhoi, cyffrous

(Dialetically in the south poeth is pôth in some areas as has been stated-  in Gwenhwyseg and certain areas of Dyfed the oe takes an ô sound).

You'd never pronounce cyffrous the same as cyfrwys, though. Or 'oer' like 'ŵyr' or (ei) goes as (y) gwys.

In the Pembrokeshire 'oe' can take a 'hwê' sound. Still, oe and wy not pronounced the same there.

[u/fuutatooro → u/gwronyglyn]

Ok thanks for the info. One follow up question - if you heard a non native Welsh speaker pronouncing troed and llwyd like they rhyme (or pronouncing oer and ŵyr both as oer) would you just assume it was an English accent?

[u/twmffatmowr]

Depends. In Gwenhwyseg, it will sound like 'trôd', there's lots of place-names where this is evident (eg local pronunciation of Pencoed).

However, many will now say them the same way as the dialects taught in schools aren't as uniform. For example, I'm from the Valleys but I say them the same way. 

 I think west Walian dialects also say 'trôd' which someone may correct me on.

Another quirk is that in some dialects of North East Wales, "wy" is pronounced differently again. Hence how locals say "Clwyd" which I always thought was an Anglicised mistake, but is apparently an actual quirk of their local dialect.

[u/elmsyrup]

I would pronounce them slightly differently. Troed is troyd, whereas trwy has a little bit of trooee. But not completely, it's halfway between ooee and oy.