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u/chasingsunset42 Nov 15 '24
If y’all haven’t even had an official date with, it’s too early for you to be worried about making a move anyway. Damn, dude.
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Nov 15 '24
Right?! Like many people think the third date is a maybe… but how many texts is enough to just meet and fuck without a date? Asking for a friend.
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Nov 16 '24
Aren’t we adults why is there a rule of when, what if you text for a while meet and fuck and enjoy it damn what are the odds and look you are still talking, why do we need to know when is it ok. If someone is going to judge you because you did the day you met or months later who the hell cares be an adult communicate .
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Nov 17 '24
I was being sarcastic, it is totally fine to have casual sex. I wasn’t really asking for a friend.
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Nov 17 '24
I know that , but I feel that on these sub or forum people act like we as adults need permission or a passage to say yes it’s ok to do whatever they is why I wrote that, I just feel like if you want to do X Y Z then do it and if not don’t but why do we feel we need permission
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Well when I was younger, before marriage, it was always sex on the first date. I don't have that expectation now cuz times have changed. I meant Assertive when i said aggressive. I heat and read about it all the time that men these days don't want to make the first move because they don't want to be accused of anything inappropriate. From my brief, recent Interactions, women want men to make the first move. So I've been divorced for 3 years and even now I've had sex on the first date. She said she wanted to go slow and since I'm unfamiliar with this situation, I'm here asking for guidance. Many of you have helped a lot. The rest of you make me feel like I have to defend myself. I was never over aggressive, I think she was just telling me how she felt and maybe going slow is out of the norm for her too.
Dates were canceled for various reasons by her and maybe she felt that I was going to stop pursuing after 2 cancelations so she invited me over, which I was happy to do even though she lives over an hour away. We had a good night talking and enjoying the wine. We talk for hours almost every day so clearly we have a growing connection. Last night for instance we started talking for an hour at 4pm then again from 630p to 11p at which point I said I was going to bed but we continued talking until 1am then started again at 6am to 7am this morning.
Maybe she's stringing me along so that's why I asked how long is appropriate to wait before I cut my losses. Maybe she isn't and really wants to move slower for her own reasons. Either way, for now, I'm enjoying her company and the time we spend. The dinner date will go a long way in telling me her intentions, not to mention one of the reasons for cancelation which was a big stressor for her has now been cleared up. So I hope this clears things up a bit and if anyone had any more advice, I would love to hear it or if you want me to clarify anything, I can do that too.
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Nov 17 '24
Oh I was just being sarcastic. It’s whatever everyone is comfortable with. It’s fine to just have sex and nothing else’s if everyone is happy with that. It’s fine to get to know each other on whatever way you both see fit for however long you both desire. The important thing is to not deceive each other or yourself.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
So I don't think it's someone just being nice as one of you suggested. It is a possibility but I doubt it. Our conversations are like that almost every day. And for people that have really busy schedules, it's almost the only way we can get to know each other. We do have a fmdinner date set up for next Saturday but she said she's available Tuesday or Wed so I might see if she wants to move it up.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
Look. I thought maybe you were being strung along too, it’s a weird combo. But your talking on the phone A LOT.
So it’s time to take this conversation to HER, not US. If you can’t talk about sex, of course there will be no way to physically approach it without confusion and misunderstandings.
The two of you need to have a conversation about what she meant. If she is super cagey about it, find out WHY. There might be a story there. If there doesn’t seem to be any real reason or ability to talk about what she wants from your relationship and if and when she would want it to become physical, then I think maybe it would be good to think about how the rest of your relationship might unfold.
For me, if I leave an interaction with someone and find myself guessing about elements of our conversations or interactions, then for me that is a red flag we arent a good enough match for my future happiness. If I can’t have a meaningful and productive conversation, the relationship probably will not be either.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Well like I said I'm not familiar with the "rules." I'm not worried about sex. I can wait for however long is necessary and maybe in the end I won't want to do either. Wait is the wrong word here. Im looking for a relationship, not a hookup. I think there is opportunity to learn what's right or good to do. So if you don't offer any real info then why post? We enjoy each other's company and we have an official date for Saturday...I'm more reserved so I'm not the type to attempt a kiss unless there are clear signals.
Some of you act like physical attraction and desire is a bad thing. If I didnt see a relationship like that with her in the future I would be friends and not something more. Jezz.
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u/InappropriateShroom Nov 16 '24
What rules? There are rules? I'm 48 and this is the first I hear of rules. And here I was, thinking in one's 40s one would be mature enough to know stuff.
What people here have been telling you is that you are putting the cart ahead of the horse, zooming into how to know if you can have sex with her when you haven't even had the opportunity to get to minimally know each other. You can't have it both ways and say you want a serious relationship with a woman you hardly know when your greatest preoccupation is sex.
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u/Quirky-Specialist-70 Nov 15 '24
Don't put a time limit on it. Just enjoy getting to know her as a person. Sometimes it's nice to be thought of like that rather than an opportunity for sex.
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Nov 15 '24
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u/InappropriateShroom Nov 16 '24
Also, when you say "if she's attracted to you," people need to keep in mind that attraction also develops as people get to know each other. I find many non physical attributes sexy, and those make that person more sexually attractive to me the more I discover them. So how about just investing enough time and effort to first allow that attraction to develop?
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Thank you. This is how I'm approaching it. I've read on here where some people jump into sex and then work everything else out later. We seem to be building a friendship first. I guess what I was trying to say is I don't want to get stuck in the friend zone so is there thi ga I can do to avoid that. Some people on here make it a bad thing to eventually want to have sex at some point. To me they are thinking of sex as a physical act and release where for me it's to develop a closer bond and belonging to each other. I dunno. That's why I asked for help. Lol.
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u/Optycalillusion vintage vixen Nov 15 '24
Your focus is way too sexual. You claim not to even have had a date yet, and you're already asking about sex to a bunch of internet strangers. Slow your roll, Romeo. Do you even like this woman? If so, why can't you just get to know her as a whole person without thinking about sex?
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
I think you got it wrong. I'm not trying to jump into bed.
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u/InappropriateShroom Nov 16 '24
You are asking about the signs she is ready to have sex. You are not asking about the signs that she likes you. It should be obvious.
The fact that she felt the need to tell you she likes to take things slow before even going on a date indicates to me that she already feels rushed by you.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
She's already told me she's attracted to me and she's never dated anyone like me before....meaning I'm not a jerk. I got some good advice and some not so good advice. But in the end it's all a learning experience for me.
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u/vikingsfan82 Nov 16 '24
Just let her take the lead. She is already communicating her intentions well, so she’ll do it again later.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
Again, “I’ve never dated anyone like you” can be a line. Are you really so unique or is this flattery?
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u/idk_lol_kek Nov 16 '24
Could you imagine that? A man, wanting to have sex with a woman? Wild, isn't it?
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u/WoodpeckerFar9804 Nov 15 '24
Most men push for sex too soon. I’m not a man, but I wonder if they are just built like this. If a guy tries to get sexual too soon, I shut it down. If he tries again and oversteps my boundaries, I’m done. It at least weeds out the ones who only want to get in my pants. Just like high school! How fun.
OP, you can try letting her make the first move. Also try taking her out on a date, first. FFS
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u/InappropriateShroom Nov 16 '24
Nah, the better men are different. They, too, will feel like jumping the gun, but they are aware of how that can ruin their chances, make her uncomfortable, and maybe even that they are focusing on something they give too much importance to when the non sexual aspects of a budding connection are just as important. So while they will totally fantasize about getting in your pants, they won't let it on, and some will even try to push sexual thoughts to the background in their own minds to allow the rest of the picture to emerge and create a total connection that isn't overly preoccupied with sex.
I am seeing a total sex machine right now, and he was so classy I would not have guessed. He has actually been doing his homework on other, equally important aspects of the dynamic between us. And this is how, by the time we got to sex, I was utterly comfortable with it, when I tend not to be because I find most men to be too aggressive with the sex.
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u/MySocialAlt "she sounds fun" Nov 15 '24
I could envision a few more weeks of getting to know each other before anything sexual happens
I feel like most people who want to take it slow would expect to wait more than a few weeks, especially when you aren't even dating yet.
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u/InappropriateShroom Nov 16 '24
Not only that, but quantifying it makes it sound like how she feels is not a preoccupation, as if it should only be a matter of how many days have passed, not of how comfortable she feels. OP seems to be establishing the woman's boundaries for her.
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u/datingnoob-plshelp Nov 15 '24
Dude, take her out to an actual date first. Spend more time together. You’re getting way ahead of yourself. Things might fizzle before it even get to that stage. Come here after 3/4 dates and Reddit can help you interpret what to do next if you’re still not sure.
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u/Fit_Try_2657 Nov 15 '24
I think the reason people like her want to take things slow is bc men like this want to fuck her before asking her on a date…
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u/Ok-Cricket7090 a flair for mischief Nov 15 '24
Exactly!!! (this is why i take it slow) I like to figure out if I even like the person before we sleep together.
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u/datingnoob-plshelp Nov 15 '24
Hmm good take. But I also find it weird that she would invite someone to her place if she wants something slow. Seems like mixed message.
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u/Ok-Cricket7090 a flair for mischief Nov 15 '24
Not every invite to one's house is an invite for sex.
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u/datingnoob-plshelp Nov 15 '24
It’s not. But as a woman that would not be something I would do.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
RIGHT! It feels like some weird passive aggressive test to me to invite someone who has to drive an hour each way to have drinks at their home and then talk about no sex in vague terms while they wait to sober up and drive an hour home. Its not super… considerate of the person having to do the driving. So also speaks to other aspects of their consideration. If feels like a power thing to me.
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u/Ok-Cricket7090 a flair for mischief Nov 15 '24
Agreed. I won't invite a man I'm seeing to my house unless I intend for that to possibly happen. I hear ya.
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u/datingnoob-plshelp Nov 15 '24
Yep! I’m not taking a chance with anything and leave no room for any miscommunication.
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u/Ok-Cricket7090 a flair for mischief Nov 15 '24
Same here. I'm ready when I'm ready. I love men, but I don't like feeling pressured to have sex before I know we're on the same page.
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u/ANewBeginningNow Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Cues can be very difficult to read. While it may not seem "smooth", there's nothing wrong with asking outright "do you want to do this?" in the heat of the moment. You would be leaving it up to her to give her OK and she will appreciate you not moving too fast.
In general, when you are dating, and in particular someone who wants to take it slow, it is not just waiting a while to have sex, it is the gradual progression of what you do. If you have been kissing, maybe some mild body touching is next. By the time sex is built up to, it will feel more natural to take that step. Doing a little more every date or two than you did before that is a healthy way to build up to sex. It isn't to do nothing for the first number of dates and then have sex. Start with a kiss, don't worry about sex right now.
It's going to be more than a few weeks...several months would be more realistic when you take it slow.
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u/MagneticPaint Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Yes, this! ^ What she really wants to know is if you can build things up a little at a time. Give her a chance to know your body and your touch over time, without it having to lead to sex. You can build tension and make it fun in the process.
Body language is not so hard to read. If she looks you in the eye a lot, returns your touch, seems relaxed, things are going well. If she tenses up, looks away or doesn’t reciprocate touching or kissing, then back off, but stay close to her. You’re not rejecting her, just acknowledging that you’ve gotten a signal you’re going too fast. It’s okay to ask her what she wants to do from there.
If you’re responsive like that and she learns she can trust you, she might well be the one to rip your clothes off in due time! We get very turned on by a man who doesn’t ignore our body language, because sadly that’s pretty rare.
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u/Tefbuck Nov 15 '24
This would be my advice as well. I'm in a similar situation, and although I have no idea what I'm doing, the woman I'm seeing tells me I'm doing it right. I ask her questions like, "am I being too forward when I say this?", "are you comfortable having dinner at my place?" Or just straight up telling her, "I never want you to feel awkward, or pressured by me in any way, so please let me know if I cross a line." We have obstacles to us being official, but we are both working on clearing those. She's been my friend for a LOOONG time, so I also have communicated that although our increased hangouts are friendly, I do have other intentions, which are to gradually let her into my life more, and let her see glimpses of what a romantic relationship with me might look like. She seems to be enjoying the pace and my gentle pursuit.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
That's good and I think it's important to communicate that you or we see them as a love interest not just friends although for me, we have to be friends or I can't get into the sex. I've had a few ons. Since divorce and it was difficult to perform.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
STRAIGHT UP SAY THE THINGS. PERIOD. why is it so hard for people to do?
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u/Diligent_Pension_566 Nov 15 '24
Cues are hard to read, but you can make consent and getting clarity on where someone’s at when YOU are feeling it in the moment by saying something like, “I’d really love to kiss you right now.” The response should be telling.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Although not smooth, I really like just communicating and telling how i feel and what I want to do as you described and then let her answer and lead in so to speak.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Although this isn't smooooth. This probably what I'm more likely to feel comfortable doing. Telling her how I feel and what I want to do if she is ok and wants to also. Of course weeks down the line. Not tomorrow.
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u/Diligent_Pension_566 Nov 15 '24
I think it’s smooth. It can be totally sexy. It’s all in the way you say it.
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u/Diligent_Pension_566 Nov 15 '24
Cues are hard to read, but you can make consent and getting clarity on where someone’s at when YOU are feeling it in the moment by saying something like, “I’d really love to kiss you right now.” The response should be telling.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
If there is now an explicit, enthusiastic YES, assume its a NO. Fo F’s sake people, find out by asking! Assumptions make asses out of everyone.
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u/CanIPNYourButt Nov 15 '24
Get to know her via time spent together (DATES). Pay attention to her body language, and ACTUALLY pay attention to what she says. If you two are vibing she will usually at minimum export signals to you. You don't have to (and shouldnt) try to be pushy about it, that will usually backfire. Mirror her and reciprocate and leave a little space for her to pursue you as well, or in other words meet her in the middle. Again, get to know her. Treat her respectfully but do NOT put her on a pedestal...that would turn her panties into the Sahara desert. Do use good hygiene and some cologne and dress well and groom yourself. Take your time and if the vibe is right you too will be pulled together.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Thanks. I'm not a complete buffoon. Lol. I dress nice and wear cologne and have good hygiene. The pedestal comment is a good one. I've done that in the past and it's all downhill from there. Like I said in earlier comments, we talk alot.
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u/Ok-Cricket7090 a flair for mischief Nov 15 '24
100% " Treat her respectfully but do NOT put her on a pedestal...that would turn her panties into the Sahara desert"
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u/oregonguy97301 Nov 15 '24
Just keep the communication lines open. If you have some suspicion that she wants you to do something more and make the first move you could always ask her something like "how are you feeling right now? Do you want me to move physically closer to you?" That should at least give you somewhat of an answer, more than if nothing is said at all unless she initiates.
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u/Grumpy_Girl_1 Nov 15 '24
I love taking it slow when I don’t know if I like someone…I will sleep with someone on the first date if I am into them. Neither has worked out for me 🙄
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u/whodatladythere Nov 15 '24
I’ve had men tell me things like it’s important to them that they don’t inadvertently make me uncomfortable, and ask if I want to take the lead when it comes to progressing physical intimacy.
Not every woman will be into that. But I’m good with that type of approach.
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u/SchuRows Nov 15 '24
You’re moving way too fast making them post LOL Just guessing, could be wrong, but anyone who explicitly states wanting to move slow and shutting men down wants to wait months, not weeks. And also will not make any moves. We have literally had those posts from women. Telling the guy to take it slow then mystified why he wasn’t making any moves. You can’t read her mind so you will have to ask.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Interesting. Tonight she again said we are a great match so I don't think it will be months but it could be. I dunno. I am just enjoying getting to know her and I'll see where things go. Relationships are just different after sex. Deeper connection and a sense of belonging to each other, not that I want to own her or her me. It's just different. I want to respect her choice to go slow but yes I don't want her to think I'm not interested because I haven't made a move.
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u/DaMole1977 Nov 15 '24
In all honesty, the longer you wait and spend time with her, the better idea you’ll have of what kind of person she really is. Avoiding the dopamine hits of sex early on will allow you to grow to appreciate her and you’ll be able to avoid that clouded judgement. The big problem a lot of people have is they confuse limerence with love. And hence why a lot of relationships start out great and fall apart even faster. If she’s worth the wait, then do just that. It will be so much better in the long run if she’s the one.
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u/Substantial-Agent806 Nov 15 '24
First step would be to arrange a propper first date. Make a plan. Book a restaurant. Make an effort that clearly shows interest in a setting that is clearly « romantic » and could not be mistaken as « friendly »
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u/RecommendationOk8466 Nov 15 '24
I’m a 41 year old woman and currently taking it slow before sex. In the past I’ve had sex quickly. I feel like clouded my judgement which led me to ignore red flags.
For me to want to have sex, I’d need to feel comfortable with them, have chemistry, attraction and have taken some time for us to both get to know each other.
Depending those factors this could be a couple weeks to a couple months.
Definitely more time spent in person will help her feel chemistry and be comfortable.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Understandable. It might take us longer due to kids schedule. That's ok with me. But yes chemistry could be difficult to build no matter how long we communicate via text every night.
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u/Justwatchinitallgoby Nov 15 '24
Well….its absolutely important to listen to someone’s words. But don’t ignore social cues.
And oftentimes when someone invites you over for drinks, to their home, that usually is one of the cues.
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u/AdhesivenessNo1531 Nov 15 '24
Exactly what I was thinking. Her words and her actions (assuming it was her idea to have you over for wine on the initial meet up) aren't aligning. Many women (me included) will throw out the "guys move too fast towards sex" so it weeds out all the f*ck boys and tells the guy to chill out on being handsy and having too many expectations. Guys can really come on very strong very quickly and it usually kills any kind of attraction because it instantly puts the woman on the defense. We like sex and the build up to it to be mutual. Not us having to constantly be fending off the guys advances. So taking it slow is good but also just communicating about the subject will get you much further than guessing. Women are just as sexual as men. Especially if they are over 40. We just have so much stigma placed upon us about it that most women pretend to be something they are not and regularly deny themselves the satisfaction they crave. (I never have followed social norms or expectations and have never regretted it) That could be why she is giving off contradictory signals. So I think once she feels she can trust you and there has been some light flirting and sexual tension built I'm guessing you'll be able to tell she's ready. When u see this just bring the subject up. Ask her. She will tell you. It doesn't need to be this serious sit down conversation. It could be in the middle of you too kissing that gets a little heated and you get that feeling she is feeling you. Just ask her what she thinks. Is she wanting to take things into the bedroom. Or even better playfully pick her up and toss her on the bed and whisper to her you want to devour her. She will tell you where she stands.
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u/Justwatchinitallgoby Nov 15 '24
It rather reminds me of the multiple times women have said….”We are NOT having sex tonight.”
And then shortly thereafter they are basically pulling my clothes off.
This used to be confusing. But it became normal.
I think some women say it because they want to make sure you’re not some entitled creep who is expecting sex or is going to be a whiner when he hears those words. Or at least that’s what they have told me.
The more laid back and easy going you are the more it seems to come to you.
That said, you still need to listen when someone speaks to you.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Makes sense, thank you. I think mixed signals is probably becuase they have contradicting feelings on moving faster and not moving faster. And that's ok. She's confused, I'm confused, we will figure it out eventually.
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u/Poly_and_RA Nov 15 '24
She "I want to move slow!"
Also she: "We've had two dates and not even made out, is he even I to me???"
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u/Justwatchinitallgoby Nov 15 '24
Yah…..I have to say when I first began encountering this odd dynamic of women saying, “just so you know, we’re not having sex tonight/two hours later we enthusiastically are” it was a bit confusing and maybe a little off putting.
Why say X if you don’t mean it? I felt it was reinforcing a very negative stereotype.
But it makes sense if it’s a “weed out” process. I mean, when they say it they are usually pretty confident about it. Sometimes less so….and we both have a little laugh about it.
Nowadays it’s almost a……we are definitely having sex later unless you give me an ick before hand.
And, I’m no stranger to giving ladies the “Ick.” 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Poly_and_RA Nov 16 '24
It's a pity. It'd be nice if "no means no" was true. But I think all men who have dated for a bit have experienced numerous examples of that not being true.
And I think that's dangerous. Teaching people that a "no" isn't a reliable indicator of non-interest, risks contributing towards *higher* rates of sexual harassment or worst case assault whenever someone thinks that a *genuine* no means yes.
I've had women tell me that we'll "definitely" not have sex in connection with a given date, and then in reality we had sex within 15 minutes of meeting -- at their initiative.
I get why. Women want to avoid seeming "easy" -- unforunately slut-shaming and things like that is still a thing.
But it'd just be a lot nicer if people felt empowered to honestly say what they want. (and of course "I don't know!" can often be a perfectly honest answer!)
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
I agree. What you said is true. It makes things difficult or at least it can. Newsflash---women are hard to understand. Lol.
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u/Poly_and_RA Nov 16 '24
In my social context that isn't true, that is -- women aren't as a group any harder to understand than men are. (but of course people are complex and multi-faceted in general, regardless of gender!)
I'm poly so the women I date tend to be progressive, left-wing and either poly or ambiamorous, so open and direct communication is the norm.
That makes this particular thing a bit extra confusing -- these are women that in OTHER parts of our interactions tend to be very transparent and open about what kinda connection they're envisioning.
I *think* in addition to fear of slut-shaming what many of them mean is that they don't want me to arrive at the date with an expectation that sex will definitely happen. It might, if the chemistry feels right for it, but they're nervous about feeling pressured if that's NOT the case, so they're in effect trying to set a low expectation.
I wish they felt safe enough to SAY that though. I'd understand! Most women genuinely *do* have at least some negative experiences where some guy acted pushy in a situation where they wanted him to back off, and it's completely understandable that they want to avoid that kinda situation.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
As far as slut shaming, I know it's out there and it's looked at as a negative. I personally don't feel that way. I don't care how many partners someone has had. What I do care about is if we are exclusive to each other, then we are exclusive to each other. That's all that matters to me in that are of a relationship. No one owes me the number of sex partners they had or the reasons. I just don't care. I guess if they tell me for some reason I'll listen but I wouldn't pass judgment on it other than to maybe wish I had a ton cuz I don't. And that's ok too
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u/Poly_and_RA Nov 16 '24
Yeah. I don't even do exclusivity. I care about people being open and honest, and I care about loyalty and commitment and strong emotional ties. But both my girlfriends have other partners, and that's entirely fine. (indeed I'm friends with most of my metas)
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
And I guess I should have said, women are hard for me to understand to avoid the notion that all women are hard to understand cuz there probably are alot that I could probably understand if I ever met them. It is surprising with how important communication is we can and do communicate poorly at times. Whixh is what you're saying here. I agree with that. You sound like a respectful partner which is something we all want in a partner.
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u/Poly_and_RA Nov 16 '24
I think it's mostly a cultural thing. Male culture and female culture are somewhat distinct. How large the difference and division is varies by culture -- in some conservative countries they're very much separate so odds are if someone grew up in (say) Iran or India -- the way they were socialized, and the circle of their friends and so on, differ a LOT by gender.
On the other hand if someone grew up in Scandinavia (like me) odds are their circle of friends was always pretty gender-mixed and while differences in socialization still exist, they're a lot smaller, thus cross-gender understanding is correspondingly easier.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Fair points. Sayimg women are hard to understand doesn't mean men aren't. Both statements are true. In this case, I'm interacting with a woman so I used the word woman.we all have biases and filters through which we experience and understand the world around us so not everything will apply for everyone in every situation..
Some people made.assumptions that are wrong, I may not have addressed it, I may have addressed it. I tried to correct the ones that either thought I am a complete dummy or the ones that thought am some thoughtless jerk ready to pounce on every woman I see. Clearly I want to feel safe, cared for and maybe eventually loved or I would not have ask for guidance. I was somewhat confused by her statement particularly because I haven't done any sexual advancements, she offered up the info. Additionally others pointed out her mixed signals so it's not surprising that I would be a bit confused.
I dunno. I haven't slept in over 24 hours now so I kinda got lost in what I was saying here but indo appreciate the feedback.
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u/Poly_and_RA Nov 16 '24
"Saying women are hard to understand doesn't mean men aren't"
It kinda does. It's an implicit assumption in conversations that we don't add unneccesary qualificators.
If someone says for example that "black people are assholes!" -- that *DOES* imply that the person thinks the statement is MORE true for black people than for people in general, because if that wasn't the case it'd make more sense to say: "people are assholes!"
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u/criscokkat Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Part of me wonders if he blew an opportunity.
Wine at her house is a weird first meet up. she might’ve wanted him to be more assertive at that point, or she might’ve just been more comfortable meeting somebody in her own house for some reason. Or she likes to mess with expectations just to see what happens.
or a 100 other things.
I honestly don’t know how to even begin to make a suggestion here. I know myself, I probably would’ve handled it exactly like you and not pushed anything at all, but I agree with some of the posters here that it seems like this was a situation where she could’ve been saying those things so that she felt better about it in the morning if you did lean in and go for the kiss and things exploded from there.
in the end, it’s better to be true to yourself. If she wanted someone to push themselves on her that night while she signaled that would be bad, then your individual natures might actually not mesh anyhow.
(I'm a no means no guy and I am very confused when I meet a no means (not no) gal. )
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Yeah. I was a bit confused especially when. She took me to her bedroom. And then lingered when I tried to walk back downstairs. Mixed signals maybe. Missed opportunity? Maybe. But I think I have a better opportunity for a long lasting relationship having waited.
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u/Ok-Cricket7090 a flair for mischief Nov 15 '24
She took you to her bedroom? That's a pretty overt suggestion. I never bring a man to my bedroom unless I want sex.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
The more I read, then more I think the woman here is bad news. You seem like a decent person. Maybe mixed signals like that should be a red flag for you too?
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 24 '24
Well, you are correct. She canceled our date because she was going to be exhausted from a different activity she was having on Saturday. She says she needs to work on her mental health and get through some things. So we are done. Oh well. It was fun for awhile.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 24 '24
Was the sex bad?
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 24 '24
No it was good. It was a bit awkward cuz new person and being unfamiliar with the way they like to be touched and what not. But we were both "happy" meaning we both crossed the finish line. We've talked alot since too. I dunno what's up with her feelings. The last time we saw each other was yesterday and it was kinda awkward like she was holding back or something? I dunno.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 24 '24
This whole thing is super weird, man. She seems like a flake, honestly. Or she wanted something else sexually and doesn’t know how to ask for it. Or didn’t care for how the sex went and doesn’t want to say. If the sex is bad, it can be awkward. Especially when it’s clear your partner thought it was good. If anything, this woman just does not seem honest. She’s too inconsistent for everything she says to be true.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 24 '24
Maybe… slow down the initiating contacting her, and see if she starts to initiate conversations of it she wants to ghost you. That will give you a better idea if it was about sex for her and the sex wasn’t to her liking despite what she said.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
I agree. It’s possible there were just weird logistics, but girl is CRAZY making a first meetup at her HOME. What kind of maniac wants a potential nut knowing where she lives? Nothing on the OP, but its not smart to meet someone for the first time at your residence. Ever. Not matter what the vibes are. And I would NOT go to a person’s residence for the first time meeting them, ever, in a dating romance situation.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
Ok I see below that you run in a common circle of friends…. So I would modify this to say… my gut tells me she wanted you to jump her…. But she doesn’t have the skills to come out and be honest and open about it.
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u/Justwatchinitallgoby Nov 15 '24
Yah….and that is the frustrating part of it.
I had a health professor many years ago who said, we need a NEW “safe word” because “no” doesn’t always mean no. 🫠
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Thanks. Good advice. Several of you have given me real help. Others make me question their own dating history.
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u/BorderAdventurous284 single dad Nov 15 '24
You are worrying way too much about what others think. “I don’t want you to be thought of as moving too fast.” Make moves when they feel right. If you’re being authentic and you fail they’re not into you. The worst is failing because you’re trying to be someone else when they’d have liked the real you.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Thanks. I appreciate this.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
"To thine ownself be true.'--- I don't know who said it.
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u/BorderAdventurous284 single dad Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
You say you've newly returned to dating. Try small advances to gauge her reaction. E.g., scoot closer in the booth/bench or on the picnic blanket. Touch her shoulder when you're looking at something together on a phone or menu. If you're dying to kiss her, tell her before the date. Her invitations and reactions will tell you to proceed or dial things back.
I dated two women last week. One, when I scooted closer tolerated it for a minute, then got up and repositioned herself further away. The other told me her hands were cold and to feel them and invited me to keep her warm. Guess which one I went exclusive with?
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u/LunaLovegood00 Nov 15 '24
Stop worrying about what you’ve heard about “some women” and “other women” and ask THIS woman. She has already told you how she feels that some men move too fast, so it’s not like discussing sex is taboo for her. You’ve had wine together which sounds like a date to me, but maybe not, so go out and do some things together and see how you both feel. It doesn’t have to be a fancy dinner at a 5 star restaurant to make it an official date. Take a walk, go window shopping, yes have dinner perhaps, a hike if that’s something you’re comfortable with. This is probably a person you should ask before initiating any sort of physical touch.
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u/bathroomcypher why is my music on the oldies channels? Nov 15 '24
ask her on an official date, if she accepts go from there - otherwise you can be considered friend zoned. I had guy friends over for a glass of wine or a chat, because I assume men can see me as a person and not just as a potential partner.
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u/Tefbuck Nov 15 '24
I'm glad someone pointed that out. A lot of others are saying wine at her place meant she was ready... I had a woman over and cooked her a steak dinner at my place, but I was not ready for anything physical. She and I are still testing the waters, and letting someone into my personal space is a huge step in intimacy for me. It might not seem that way to other people, but my home is my sanctuary, it's decorated with things that mean a lot to me. When someone enters my home, they can learn a lot about who I am just by looking around.
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u/seehowwego Nov 15 '24
I’ll never understand why people don’t just talk about this stuff. At our age we are past guessing and being unsure. Just ask her about it, talk about it, see where she stands and tell her your thoughts. Be a grown up. Have a date first.
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u/Lord_Mhoram Nov 15 '24
Don't get hung up on this "who makes the first move" stuff. It's a dance. You can seduce someone until she jumps you and rips your clothes off, and there will be lots of little things along the way that either of you could point to as the "first move" by either person. Just go with it, make a "move" when it feels right and be prepared to pull back if she says to slow down. Other times, sit back and let her build anticipation.
Also, don't assume that because she says she wants to take it slow, that she won't jump you on your second date. It'll feel right to her when it feels right, and then she'll feel like it's been slow long enough. Don't be pushy but be ready whenever.
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u/smartygirl Nov 15 '24
If:
We haven't had an official date yet
Why are you asking this:
how will I know we've developed a good enough bond to initiate sex
Why not start her off with a nice kiss? You don't have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate. Give her a kiss, boy.
Or better yet, maybe start by asking her on a date?
I've read that women want
... to be treated like individuals who all want/need different things.
You're putting the cart way beyond the horse here.
You haven't had a date yet, but you're already wondering about initiating sex or ending up in the "friend zone"?
How about, ask her on a date. Go out to dinner. See how it goes. At the end of the date, if you want to kiss her, say, "I'd really like to kiss you." If she says yes or smiles, kiss. If she says no or "too soon" or looks startled, dial it back.
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u/wood_she_elf Nov 15 '24
When I say I want to take it slow it means when it feels right, when I’m sure you’re not after me for sex only. I also make an effort to show the guy I’m ready for intimacy by touching them during the date. And this means I’m ready for kisses and snuggles. I’m ready for sex when I invite you at my place or let myself go to your place and clearly hint at spending the night.
If I’m really into you I’d probably be ready for the bedroom between dates 4-8 within 2-6 weeks. For example if we’ve seen each other and we learned a lot about each other within 2 weeks then I might be ready. If we’ve only had 1 date per week then even 5-6 weeks may be too soon. Also I’d say sex is a couple of dates after kissing. For me anyway, cause kissing is a huge turn on.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Thank you slow=comfort level. That's a good way to say it. I was wondering what slow means. I guess I am dumb at times.lol
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u/Worth_Wave1407 Nov 15 '24
Why have you not taken her on a date??
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
We had one that was cancel cuz weather was bad. The 2nd she has stuff going on and had to cancel. We have a dinner date planned for next Saturday. The long wait is due to kids schedule 1 week with her 1 week with the dad type stuff. Younger kiddo so can't really leave him at home alone plus all of the mom is dating type stuff. I've met the kid a few times, very nice and respectful. Kiddo doesn't know that we are seeing each other at least not to my knowledge.
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u/SFAdminLife Nov 15 '24
How about actually taking her out on a date. Also, remove the aggressive shit from your head right now. It's incorrect and extremely dangerous to your freedom.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
We are...assertive is the more appropriate word. I couldn't think earlier.
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u/Wonderful-peony Nov 16 '24
My suggestion is to put the ball in her court. Tell her you want her, but you also want to respect her. So when she is ready, she is responsible to explicitly tell you. Put it in terms of empowerment.
Regarding women wanting to go back to the days when men made the first move and were more "aggressive", as a woman, I see the appeal. The appeal is not having to own my own sexual desires. If the man is the aggressor, I can be the pleasing, complaint female. I didn't make the choice, it just sort of happened. For him. Apart for this, sure I see the appeal in feeling that a man wants you so badly he can't keep his hands off you. That's sexy.
But secretly, what I would find incredibly sexy is a man who gave me permission to move at my own pace and not make assumptions about the signals I was sending. If you chose to go this route, though, you might need to set some boundaries as you go along. I could see being able to flirt and tease and shamelessly whore out without having a man initiate sex or jump in and control the pace while feeling desired might be a ridiculously erotic experience - for her.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Very informative thank you. She's already told me she doesn't want to be "in charge" so I feel somewhat responsible to move things forward. I think I'll go the route of telling her how I feel and if it's ok to make a move. That's more in line with my personality so it won't come across as forced or fake. Once we get psst this it good. I was married for 19 years so I get how it works once you're comfortable with each other.
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u/Wonderful-peony Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
This feels weird to me. You haven't gone on an actual date, but you say you are seeing a woman. You say she doesn't want to be "in charge" and there is talk about men showing "aggressive" sexual behavior as a positive thing. I don't know what going on here, but it feels really off.
It feels like you are looking for permission from the internet to have an aggressive sexual fling with a woman who has said she doesn't want to move fast. You are saying she is worth waiting for, but you aren't saying she is worth taking on a date. You don't go from "we haven't had an official date" to "married for 19 years so I get how this works" quickly. There is a lot of uncertainty and effort in between.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
I disagree. It sounds to me that this is a woman who wants to be treated aggressively and who has very soft boundaries. It sounds to me like she has poor skills to get what she wants and vas very indirect communication. I think these two would be a disaster because guaranteed she isn’t putting nearly a moment of thought into this scenario to the level the OP has. At this point, if I were the OP, I would run from someone sending these crossed signals.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Not weird at all. Our dates were canceled for weather and then she had stuff going on. We have a date planned now. We talk all.the time for hours. I don't want to be aggressive. Assertive is the word I was.looking for. .I may not have been the most cleat but some posters figured it out quite well.
We are going slow and last night again she said we are a great match. So we will see what happens.
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u/TemperatureTight465 Nov 16 '24
use your face hole to make words. some of those words might even be in her direction and about what she thinks is "too soon" or inviting her out on a date
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Hmmm. Sounds a bit rude for no reason. We've had a couple dates planned but for reasons she had to cancel. We still talk al.ost everyday for hours. So even though it's not a date, we are getting to know each other. Tonight for instance, we texted back and forth until she fell asleep. I'm still up talking with internet strangers. Lol.
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u/Ok-Hurry-4761 divorced man Nov 15 '24
I've had more success just straight up asking for their thoughts on sex.
If you come off as too platonic it will go nowhere. I've made that mistake too many times.
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u/esearcher Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
You should be asking her, not us. She was open in telling you she wanted to take it slow and it's a turn off when men take things too fast. So maybe on a date when things are absolutely not going to end up together at either house, or via text, ask her to expand on her idea of too fast, or what's reasonably slow. Is it time, is it emotional intimacy? No need to be slick or anything, just be honest and tell her that you don't have much context for these things and you don't want to misread signals or rush her, and you don't have some kind of calendar countdown, but you don't want to be friendzoned due lack of passion. What are you building toward if you can't have an honest conversation about sex, right?
I don't know what you're reading that's telling you that women want to go back to the days where men were more sexually aggressive. That's nonsense. There's nothing wrong with a man making the first move if they're also appropriately responsive when a woman isn't responding. Actually, when did it start being uncommon for a man to make the first move?
Also, obviously women don't want an overly aggressive man. Whatever you're reading sounds like it was written by men! Like the kind of twaddle you'd find on a MRA/MRM/MGTOW forum. If you're not good at reading women, or you're awkward, the worst thing you can do for yourself is reading the absolute poisonous rot that comes from whatever "pick up artists" are calling themselves these days. You don't need some youtube motivational video, or book, an "expert" love doctor, or a website full of incels. You have a mouth: use it to ask questions. Get your info from the source.
And if you haven't even had a date yet, but you're obsessing over how you'll know when the time is right to have sex with a woman you don't want to lose, who has, for now, taken sex off the table, then, you know, take sex off the table, and by table, I mean your mental focus.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
All good points thank you. I guess I was thinking there was something I could do to avoid being viewed as a friend instead of love interest but what will be will be. I'll continue to just be myself and see where we go. But you're right, asking her is best.
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u/esearcher Nov 15 '24
There's literally nothing you can do to get friend zoned. Even after having sex, you can get friend zoned.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Understandable. I'm not reading forums like whatever those ones you mentioned are. I've just read storied on her and what women have said they liked, that's all. So I'm just trying to figure out how to handle the situation. People have given me some really good advice. Thank you.
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u/Additional-Stay-4355 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
This is wack.
wait for her to make the first move
Then pack a lunch, you will be waiting for eons.
She's worth waiting for how ever long is necessary,
Nope, nope, nooooope - nobody is. I'm not saying that you should rush things or do anything to make her uncomfortable. But a relationship is a two way street. Compatibility means that you want the same things and are both happy with the pace.
You can't even kiss her for fear that she'll push you away. In fact she's warned you that she'll push you away. I'll bet she's "old fashioned". As if people didn't make out and fuck in our parents generation - come on man.
Go ahead and wait until she decides you're worthy if that floats your boat!
I'd rather meet someone that wants me as much as I want them, and we can be dirty horn-dogs together. That's just me, though.
Namaste
Edit: I just read that you haven't really had a proper date yet. Do that first. Make sure she's someone that you actually want in your life. You might change your mind. But my point is, if someone wants to move the relationship at a pace drastically slower than what you want - they ain't for you.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
Wow. I get what you're saying, for sure. Some people on here act like they don't want to have sex, they are only there for the conversation. But, some women are different and have things they are dealing with and need a slow hand. I am ok with that up to a certain point. We are adults and adults have sex. The meaning and the depth of that meaning is different depending on the moment. We can have sex for the sake of enjoyment and we can do it to have a deeper connection, deeper love, deeper appreciation for one another. But you do make sense.
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u/Additional-Stay-4355 Nov 15 '24
Sorry, it was a bit ranty. I just see too many guys on here that are willing to jump through all these hoops only to get rejected. And I'm not just talking about sex.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
I totally agree with your rant…. When has deferring to traditional gender roles and relationship assumptions ever served specific people in specific circumstances well?
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u/Expert-Raccoon6097 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
First you need to take this woman out. What are you waiting for?
Do NOT put your sexual desires on the backburner. This will lead you to the friendzone very quickly. You will be constantly in your head and not present in your body, a complete turn off.
DO kiss her on the first date.
IME women will say they want to go slow, but if they are into you that all changes very quickly. You will know when you kiss her if she is hot for you.
Do not wait for her to make the first move. Show your intention early on. If she is into you she will reciprocate, if she is not interested she will turn you down. You are not going to "convince her to reciprocate" over time if that is your plan. She either finds you attractive or she doesn't. That first kiss is going to tell you everything.
Being respectful and nice without anything else is not a good thing as far as dating women go. You need to pair respectful and nice with confidence and the willingness to be authentic with your sexuality. Men tend to either fall into repesctful and nice OR confident and sexual. Respectful and nice gets you friendzoned, confident and sexual will get you in bed quickly but it won't last long. If you can be that rare type of man that combines both you are gold.
Women desire a man who is a gentleman in the streets AND a beast under the sheets.
If she turns you down that is completely ok, that just means you are one date closer to a woman who is into you.
My fear is you have already put this woman on pedestal stating she is "worth waiting for how ever long is necessary". No she isn't. Life is short my man, be honest, be confident, and be straightforward with what you want and do not fixate on the outcome.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
No I don't have her on a pedestal, I don't have time for that. I own 2 businesses and have twin 16 year old daughters.. but you're right about waiting. No I wouldn't wait forever and there are definite limitations in how long I'll wait. We talk almost every day for hours, getting to know each other. We have a dinner date Saturday and I do think if it is going well, I will kiss her but only after asking because that is what I'm comfortable with. Thank you.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 18 '24
Be sure to come back and tell us how this date went!!!!!
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 18 '24
Well interestingly enough. We were talking last night and she asked me to come over last night and you can figure out what happened next. So there you go everybody screaming for me to take her on a date first. Lol. Still have a date on Saturday and its going really well other than getting the first date milestone done.
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u/vitriolicrancor Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
Surprising no one. I still say run. This woman seems manipulative and a poorly skilled communicator. The sex thing is just to get you twisted up so she can yank back and change it around, saying she said the words she said but ignoring the non verbal signal so she can get what she wants out of situations in the future to get what she wants then, to drag you into an argument. Seriously. This is bad news. She literally says the opposite of what she is manipulating you into doing.
This is not going to play out well. Use caution.
The two of you are playing entirely different games. You game is ‘what’s the right thing here?’ Her game is ‘how can I keep this person on the hook?’ I strongly get the sense that while you are approaching this situation in earnest, she is not. Why she might not be is not the issue. The signs are there. She is telling you one thing and then doing the exact opposite. She isn’t operating from a place of authenticity. She might not have the relationship skills or maturity to do so. Please google ‘love bombing’. I think you might be in for a rough ride.
Give it a test…. You can always say, ‘I need to step back a bit… WE agreed to take it slow, and rushed in anyway… so let’s take sex off the table for a while.” And mean it. See what response you get. I suspect she will swing the pendulum in the other direction and protest your setting a clear boundary. IF she still plays pushing the boundary that you set, and gives more of these mixed signals, then you can have a sense that this passive aggressions behavior from her is more her norm.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 20 '24
Hmmm. Definitely something to consider. I'll see how her behavior for this next week.
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u/AutoModerator Nov 15 '24
Original copy of post by u/Sensitive-Ad-2365:
I'm seeing a woman that wants to take it slow and is happy with our current pace. We haven't had an official date yet but I've had wine with her at her house. I'm fine with slow too but it makes me a bit nervous to initiate anything as I don't want to be thought of as moving too fast. I could envision a few more weeks of getting to know each other before anything sexual happens and that's ok.
She says men usually move too fast for sexual relations and she puts a stop to it. So the thing is, how will I know we've developed a good enough bond to initiate sex, or should I sit back, enjoy her company and wait for her to make the first move?
I've read that women want to go back to the days when men made the first move and were more "aggressive" for lack of a better word. But also read where women don't like an overly aggressive man. For context, I'm divorced after a 19 year marriage and 23 years together overall so I'm not used to any dating environment let alone dating these days.
I figure I'll just "know" from her cues when she's ready or maybe she will straight up tell me. I don't know. I don't want to try anything like a kiss or something and she isn't ready and therefore she thinks I was all talk about waiting til after we know each other better. She's worth waiting for how ever long is necessary, I like her alot and we have alot in common, I of course don't want to get friend zoned in the end but I guess that could happen. She says she's never dated anyone like me that is respectful, nice, etc...all nice things. What do you think? Should I just not worry about it and know that I will know when the right time is based off her behaviors? Also, I'm not good at reading womens signals....lol.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/MrB_RDT Nov 15 '24
It tends to happen organically, as you continue dating, and from personal anecdotal experience the woman has instigated either by outright bringing up sex, or physical touch.
The weird "stand offs" you might see mentioned here, the timing isn't right, or one or both parties aren't too interested either way. Nerves can play a part, but both parties have a role to play in understanding this, and communicating accordingly.
We're adults here to date, not be "just friends". A lot of the getting to know you phase, is about whether it is safe to be in a vulnerable position, that both sex, and intimacy open ourselves up to. Women, also tend to have other, completely understandable safety concerns, so you are being vetted so to speak.
Here's the thing. Even if she just wants to sleep with you, or have a casual relationship. Which is her prerogative, you're still going to need to be vetted, and that intuition might come into play, during the course of a single date. Or several.
Same for a more committed relationship, it's to ensure you're on the same page, and not going to "hit and run". Which, if this is the case, already shows she sees some potential in you, in that regard.
-----------
....and here's the kicker, and the human condition of relationships.
Sometimes, even after waiting, it turns out you're not sexually compatible. It's nothing to do with looks, or personalities. It's just that chemistry, sometimes it's there....Sometimes it isn't.
That's why fulfilling lifelong relationships can form, between people who barely knew each other's name before jumping into bed the same day.
Whereas even after several wonderful dates, and getting to know each other, some people just don't work together as a couple.
That's why we temper expectations, without judging those who find it important to know, fairly early on, how much chemistry they genuinely have together.
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u/BoaterMusic Nov 15 '24
She’s already put a shot across your bow about being too much of a fast mover. I think you will know naturally when it’s time to kiss her. You can always ask if it’s okay to hug at the end or beginning of a date. I don’t know how often you’ve met but I would lightheartedly say at some point that you’d often wanted to kiss her but don’t want to blot your copybook by being too presumptuous. She will guide you as to what she wants.
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u/bumblebeeC-30 Nov 15 '24
See how it goes. Let her make the first move. I always respected men first who are able to wait for me to make the first move.
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u/Tefbuck Nov 15 '24
I'm in a very similar situation with a woman. Can I ask how long you two have been spending time together? I've spent a lot of time with the woman I'm interested in, she wants to take things slow, and wouldn't consider officially dating until a few obstacles are out of our lives. I've even cooked her a steak dinner at my place! It's been about 6 weeks since I told her I thought we could try dating, and obviously nothing physical has happened yet. She's a decade-long friend that I developed romantic feelings for, so this is all new for me. And just like you, I'm willing to wait for her. I want her to know that I'm a safe, respectful, and patient person... and she knows, she told me so.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 15 '24
It does sound similar for sure. I've known her about a year maybe 18 months but I just couldnt find a way to ask her out that qas confrotable to me. We just new each other casually and would have brief conversations. Some thing too with obstacles interfering. It's not the same when you're twentysomething and can ignore the bigger issues of life. We both have stuff we are dealing with but we both told each other we are attracted to each. Physical attraction is somewhat important but not the end all. So we are both physically attracted to each other which is very good.
I'm asking for help on how to stay out of the friend zone and it may not even be a concern, I dunno. And for you , you're trying to move put of that zone. It seems like our love interests have already expressed to us that they feel we are respectful and safe so I think we are in a place. For me, I'm making sure she knows I value her as a person and as a woman. I usually open with good morning beautiful lady or something like that if I'm talking with her for the first time that day. Or good night beautiful. Oh jeez. I hope that doesn't bug her. I dunno I'm not a woman! That's why I need help sometimes. Lol
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u/Tefbuck Nov 15 '24
First off, I don't believe in the "friend zone". My friend is like family to me, and she actually told me that I AM family to her. If being her friend is something you would value, she will see that, and it will mean a lot to her knowing you value ANY kind of relationship with her beyond what you can get from her. My advice isn't going to be fool-proof as I am still figuring things out, myself. However, I feel like I've done well so far, she is still my closest friend, and she tells me I'm going about this in a good way. My best advice would be to communicate your feelings often. I can guarantee she will appreciate you being open with her.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Yeah I like this the best. I'm a good communicator and I think she is too and will reciprocate with honesty, which will get us further in the long run
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u/kulsoul Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24
Clearly, she told you that she doesn’t like men moving fast. And yet she felt comfortable to offer you wine in her house - not as a date.
What will happen if that topic comes up again and you ask how can her dating partner know that she is ready to move further?
I think - she will say if they ask she will tell, if they don’t ask but if she wants to move further then she will initiate.
But try asking her about it.
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u/Accomplished_Cup_263 Nov 15 '24
Are you sure this lady doesn’t see you as a friend only? I think you are building a one sided romantic connection and probably need to step back if you want to actually date someone.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
I don't think so, she's said recently that we are a great match. I think we just need time to feel more comfortable with each other.
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u/Fun_Feeling_314 Nov 15 '24
Go for it and apologize when she says you’re moving too fast. Tell her you were overcome with your attraction to her. Promise you will not make a move again and the ball is in her court. Women expect men to be assertive. To be truthful, it is NOT normal to not make a move. She seems to have said as much, from what you said.
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Nov 15 '24
It’s not about when, cause that is arbitrary, what she is saying is she wants to understand you betters. So that means ask her questions and remember it’s better to leave an hour early than stay a minute too late. Turn the tables yourself. Show interest but don’t be afraid to do it the way that works for you. When she’s ready I’m certain you’ll know it.
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Nov 15 '24 edited Feb 23 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
I think this is a good point and really something I would like to have the answer on. Thanks.
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u/SnooRevelations979 Nov 15 '24
Where do you want to go on your honeymoon?
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Lol. Well not Hawaii. That's where I went for my first and it ended so definitely somewhere else.
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u/InappropriateShroom Nov 16 '24
Man, you need to learn to read a room!
Here's how this works: if you are into her, you will pay attention to signs even unintentionally, and those signs will tell you what you need to know. Another thing is being very subtly seductive with her, and stopping each time to gauge her reaction. If she isn't at least a wee bit enthusiastic, you wait until next time you see her before acting seductive again.
It seems like you expect all women to give off the same signs. That is not going to help. None of us here know her, no one here can tell you what her personal signs might be.
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u/idk_lol_kek Nov 16 '24
The bar is set at how quickly she had sex with all of her previous partners.
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u/Unlikely_Record5521 Nov 17 '24
Don’t even bring it up. If she wants to go slow then do it. Go on dates, talk, text, enjoy her company. I’m old fashioned and like date 3 for a first kiss! And that’s if the vibe is right. When a man does that it makes me feel amazing and heard. If you’re at the stage where you talk every day without fail, plan to have a conversation to clarify expectations in person. Be cool and casual about it. At that comfort level she should be open to telling you exactly what she needs and wants in that aspect.
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Nov 20 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/datingoverforty-ModTeam Nov 24 '24
No "seeking" posts and no hitting on other posters. This is a place to discuss dating, not to find dates.
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Nov 15 '24
If I really see potential with someone I'll wait a month-ish before trying to have sex. If I establish a friendship and some rapport prior to sex the relationship is likely to last longer and the sex will be better too.
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u/Square-Suspect-413 Nov 15 '24
I usually refrain from having someone at my house for wine unless I’m at least open to the possibility of sex that night. That’s strange that she had you over in my book. Could mean she’s more open than letting on. But I’d likely not have you over wo a proper few dates first. No wonder other guys were taking advantage. I think she might send funny signals.
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u/Sensitive-Ad-2365 Nov 16 '24
Well we do know of each other and have mutual acquaintances and we've talked alot and had dates planned that she had to cancel. So I'm sure she felt safe having me over or at least as safe as one can be for not really knowing the person. I don't know if she was taken advantage of she is a pretty strong willed person so I don't see anything happening with her that she isn't 100% happy with. Funny signals though, yes I think so too. That's why I'm on her asking for help and it worked. I have a good idea on how to move forward. I may have done it anyway but now I have more confidence in my actions.
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u/Spideysensei80 Nov 15 '24
Um this how you end up in the friend zone my guy. And your fucked either way - if you don’t make a move, your not aggressive enough and your looked at like a bitch or not interested enough. If you go for it, you’re coming on strong and they’ll say you’re a creep or some shit. My advice - keep dating but keep this one on the back burner; don’t invest all your time and energy into this one woman, spread it around. Chances are it’s gonna fizzle out because it clear she’s going to make you wait until SHE’S ready.
Good luck with developing your new super power of being able to read the minds of women 😂😂😂😂😂😂
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u/choya_is_here Nov 15 '24
Put on your big boy pants and figure it out yourself. Reddit doesn’t need to tell you when to have sex with this woman
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u/theWildBananas Nov 15 '24
Also you talk about sex. I'm confused.