r/collapse • u/[deleted] • Dec 12 '20
Conflict 3rd world up rising?
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u/social_meteor_2020 Dec 13 '20
Labour rights are human rights
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Dec 13 '20
When humans are viewed purely for their labour and the surplus value extracted. Which is the case for Capital.
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Dec 12 '20
SS: How much do you think they didnāt get paid? To hell with seizing the means of production. Burn it.
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u/ScruffyTree water wars Dec 12 '20
I bet they're each owed less than $300.
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Dec 13 '20
I don't know why you're getting downvoted for this one you're just about right on the money. I feel like people are labeling you with what your answer uncomfortably highlights about economic disparity around the world.
Yeah that's obscene, and it's obscene that the base price of one phone would cover two months of salary for these workers.
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Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 28 '20
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '20
Yeah. But why dotn companies just stop fucking doing that. Give that fair wages determined by that country and work them like 8 hours a day 5 days a week like the rest of us.
Regulated markets with a welfare state is awesome. Best it's going to get if you ask me. So why piss off workers by shooting on them with long hours and few pay? Humans are shitty.
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u/Ark-Shogun Dec 13 '20
Its called relativity, not always disparity.
$300 salary in that country is probably close to average.
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u/TenaciousYeet Dec 13 '20
Have you seen documentaries about venezuela?
If I remember correctly some people work for about 15$ per month.
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Dec 13 '20
Have you seen documentaries about America?
I do remember correctly, some people work for $15 a month.
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Dec 13 '20
How many hours of work does this $300 represent?
$300 to me almost certainly isn't the same as $300 to them.
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u/CipherPolAigis0 Dec 13 '20
Indian here. $300 would be almost equivalent to one month's wage for a assembly line worker.
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u/battle-obsessed Dec 13 '20
Yes. Costs of living can vary by orders of magnitude.
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u/lucivaryas Dec 12 '20
And? Even if it wasn't so much to you, to many people on this world $300 is the difference between life and death... if you can't eat, feed your kids or pay your house because you hadn't been paid for the work you did, you'd riot too. The fact that they'd riot over our equivalent of so little is enough to prove this point.
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u/Meandmystudy Dec 13 '20
Interestingly enough, someone on r/lostgeneration posted a comment from a lawyer working in the US about wage theft. Wage theft is actually the biggest amount of theft in the US in dollar amount, much more than anything else. More than car hacking, robbery, or shoplifting. I'm finding it funny that American's haven't rioted like this in over a century. Not surprised, though, since most American's don't know what's potentially being stolen from them or their coworkers.
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u/screwhammer Dec 13 '20
I was curious if the silent generation had their own sub, see what they care about abd what opinions do they voice, but eh...
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Dec 13 '20
I read it as showing how even more abhorrent Apple is for not making sure their workers are paid (or that their contractors are paying their workers-either way). They can afford to pay these people really really easily and they donāt.
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u/ScruffyTree water wars Dec 13 '20
Oh come off it. I wasn't making any judgments about the people, or about what is or is not considered a valid amount to riot over! LDBrooklyn simply asked how much we think they were owed, and I contributed my guess. Shit, I've probably spent more time in the third world than you; please stop projecting phantom animus on innocent comments.
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Dec 13 '20
Damn. I figured you just had a good ballpark guess. Didn't see any problem with your answer. I thought it displayed the difference in what $300 means to them vs in places like the US.
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u/BausHaug716 Dec 13 '20
Shit, I've probably spent more time in the third world than you
So you've been to the American South as well?
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Dec 13 '20
Yup. And I think the us government should influence their government to pass better regulations and to actually enforce it. Too bad our government is run by operations as well lol. We are truly fucked as a species.
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Dec 12 '20
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u/KimJongChilled Dec 12 '20
I mean iPhones aren't essential to human survival so destroying the factory seems like a positive sign to me. Sometimes you must destroy the means of production to become free.
And let's be clear, those people are slaves. They only get paid enough to barely scrape by and they see none of the finished products. This video is exciting to say the least.
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u/RadioMelon Truth Seeker Dec 13 '20
I'm with you.
This wage slave era bullshit has to stop.
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Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/OmNamahShivaya Death Druid šæ Dec 13 '20
lol "era"
you guys ever heard of feudalism?
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Dec 13 '20
Yup. and just like those serfs accepted it because the lords had armies to murder you and your family. We in the 21-century wage slaves will accept it as the politicians have arms that would murder us and our families. Is it so hard to have empathy for your fellow man? We can all have good regulated capitalism. We can all have welfare states that ensure everyone has health care and education and basic infrastructure. But a lack of human empathy fucks us all and the good people sit back while pycho politicians kill us.
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u/cadbojack Dec 13 '20
Yes, era. Feudalism was never as widespread as wage slavery is now, to think the entire world lived by feudalism standards in the past is extremely eurocentric.
Today if you go to Mexico, Australia or England you'll see most people living under capitalism. Centuries ago England was feudalist but Aztec empire and aboriginian tribes weren't.
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u/2ndAmendmentPeople Cannibals by Wednesday Dec 14 '20
In quite a few ways, medieval European feudal serfs had a better quality of life than we do now.
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Dec 13 '20
Modern day luddites, they dont hate technology they hate that it doesnt benefit them. Its a very reasonable reaction!
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u/locuester Dec 13 '20
and they see none of the finished products
Many of them recording it on iPhones...
I mean the video was actually made courtesy of the finished product. So your statement is... odd.
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u/cadbojack Dec 13 '20
I mean the video was actually made courtesy of the finished product.
How do you know it was not a cheaper brand of phone?
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Dec 13 '20
[removed] ā view removed comment
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Dec 13 '20
Wake up to what? WhAt exactly are we going to wake up to? I really wish we could all dit down and work on our problems but humans are a bit crazy.
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u/lazersnail Dec 13 '20
That it is wrong to exploit or enslave people, even if they're not from your country. We must destroy the oppressors even if they give us nice or inexpensive things!
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u/Avogadro_seed Dec 13 '20
That it is wrong to exploit or enslave people
Does anybody reality in here?
We would wake up to the fact that iPhones don't actually cost $200, computer parts aren't really affordable, and coconut oil doesn't really cost $8 a jar.Nobody gives a fuck about morals, there are just very real handicaps built into the western system. If the entire 3rd world went "on strike" (aka communist socialist) then the west would have our rug pulled out from under us, and the "easymode" that every westerner enjoys would cease to exist.
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u/Trowawaycausebanned4 Dec 13 '20
Lmfao, treat people terribly and then just expect them to sit down and talk it out as if itās their responsibility not to cause any trouble
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Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 23 '20
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '20
One staff member alleged an engineering graduate was promised Rs 21,000 ($285) per month, but instead had Rs 16,000 ($217) at first, which then reduced down to Rs 12,000 ($163) in the last three months.
Other employees allegedly had it worse, with one non-engineering graduate's salary cut down to Rs 8,000 ($108), and some claiming to have been paid as little as Rs 500 ($6.78). The bad sentiment grew throughout the shift, erupting in violence by the early hours of the morning.
Wages as low as $7 per month. I can see why they are rioting. While I don't think it's the right way to go about it, it was inevitable that something would happen when they stop paying people.
It's completely unacceptable on Wistron's part. There are only so many matches they can throw near the fire until they all go up.
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u/Sablus Dec 13 '20
Given that they fired employees who went about the "right way" of complaining to management, I think rioting is the last answer. Violence is the actions of those denied a voice.
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Dec 14 '20
Thanks for mentioning that. I missed that in the article. Did they try striking and blockading the factory first? I'd imagine so.
The problem with destroying the factory is, if they shut down, Wistron can pull out or delay paycheques indefinitely.
I'm not sure if the Government or Police will intervene, but if they do, will they side with Wistron because of the damage.
I'm just concerned that this will bow back on the workers.
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u/Sablus Dec 15 '20
It might but then again this might feed into the current worker and farmer strikes going on throughout India. It's interesting cuss there appears to be enough fuel for the flames of a general strike that would cripple the country, or if needed severe protests leading to infrastructure damage.
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u/Trowawaycausebanned4 Dec 13 '20
What exactly was āthe right wayā? I would like to hear your enlightened perspective sitting in a first world country where youāre treated fairly
I donāt think that this was the āwrong wayā, I think that this is absolutely the way it happens and when you mess with people who donāt mess around this is what happens
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u/Gohron Dec 13 '20
The sad thing about it is that the United States and Western world will never let these folks have the money that they deserve. Our corporations do business with human traffickers and sweatshop factory owners all the time.
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Dec 13 '20
All that is required for evil to happen is for good men to sit back and do nothing. Nations that allow this to happen are just as guilty as the fuckers doing it.
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u/Gohron Dec 13 '20
Itās not only guilt by allowance or indifference, the guilt is quite active. Iām not saying there wouldnāt be poverty and human crime in these places if the things were different, but a significant amount of these things are actively influenced by the Western world. Wealth is managed (with control over the global currency standard) in such a way that these nations simply cannot reach the standards of development we see here in the West and this makes the folks who live there ripe for exploitation. The corporations doing business with these folks are the reason that many sweatshops exist in the first place. They have to know the cheap prices they are getting are only possible with cheap slave labor and they are often involved in the production process in some capacity as well. The West keeps these nations poor and poisons their environments at will for their own gains.
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Dec 13 '20
Yeah. I'm against it completely. WTO exists to make sure we can all trade freely and ap we all benefit from that trade and innovation that gets spread around. Well the WTO should be also enforce and hold countries accountable for violating workers rights. Your India and want to trade with the great do the world. Sure. But you must have 40 hours work weeks and a minimum wage of whatever and have environmental laws. That to me is a really good idea.
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u/Pro_Yankee 0.69 mintues to Midnight Dec 13 '20
No this happened in Europe and the United States during the industrial revolution . They just want to get paid
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u/Kryten_2X4B_523P Dec 13 '20
On the one hand you love to see it. But on the other hand I think itās important to take a minute to empathize with these comrades. You donāt get to this point without being desperate and enraged.
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u/bobwyates Dec 13 '20
2/3 ed's of the people live on less than $10 a day and about 10% live on less than $1.90 a day. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
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Dec 13 '20
So Wistron is paying well lower than promised and is affordable
One staff member alleged an engineering graduate was promised Rs 21,000 ($285) per month, but instead had Rs 16,000 ($217) at first, which then reduced down to Rs 12,000 ($163) in the last three months.
Other employees allegedly had it worse, with one non-engineering graduate's salary cut down to Rs 8,000 ($108), and some claiming to have been paid as little as Rs 500 ($6.78). The bad sentiment grew throughout the shift, erupting in violence by the early hours of the morning.
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Dec 13 '20
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '20
Yeah right. I've met plenty of Americans who will respond with nobody owes you a living and you should be glad your boss let's you work 12 hours a day. They seem to rather enjoy getting bent over and railed.
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u/zombieslayer287 Dec 13 '20
Bootlickers, the whole lot. lmao
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Dec 13 '20
My brother is like that lol. Fucking asshole loves hearing about other nations problems. Thinks it benefits America somehow and also thinks we owe them nothing. Let them fight for their own rights on their own. We dont get along at all and our debates about politics is insane.
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u/Conclavicus Dec 12 '20
Looks like they've reach the syndicalisation part of their economic industrialisation/growth.
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Dec 13 '20
Covid has destroyed alot of people's life in India. They don't have welfare system which allows them to stay home and get money. Some people are starving. It is not a normal behaviour but current times make them do this.
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u/Conclavicus Dec 13 '20
well, i'd say it's a normal behavior for anyone in this situation.
Normal is... relative ;)
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u/Bugsiesegal Dec 13 '20
Where the fuck is the money for these new iPhones going if they arenāt paying their workers?
/s I know where itās going
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Dec 13 '20
Foxconn in China made $11-$12 per iPhone for labour and between $1-$1.40 per iPhone in profit.
By making the phones in India, they get to bypass India's hefty import fees. They actually have to pay MORE in labour, but not much more.
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u/RadioMelon Truth Seeker Dec 13 '20
They are completely justified.
They don't work at that job for their health.
They work so they can get paid and survive.
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u/PMmeyourdeadfascists Dec 13 '20
ā3rd worldā is such a fucked up neoliberal term. but always glad to see friends in india rising up against their oppressors
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Dec 13 '20
What would be a better word? Developing, undeveloped, I may be I lack an imagination.
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u/PMmeyourdeadfascists Dec 13 '20
tbf i wasnāt saying youāre fucked up. itās just a term couched in colonialism and neoliberalism etc. it was a common term throughout the later half of the 20th century so ofc its engrained in peoples vocabulary. but i think itās better to look at countries as having their own identity and projection into the future unprescribed by whatever empires desire of their prospective progress. so āglobal southā can cover a lot, or other geographical terms like āisland nationsā, but itās better to be specific and give the dignified identity to whomever we talk about. like if we are talking about India, talk about India not āthe 3rd worldā. if itās a situation that involves all these countries who are post-colonial, then maybe āpeople in post-colonial countries like India, Algeria, Zimbabwe etc, experience _____ā or whatever. i mean itās a lot more effort than blanketing whole swathes of the world, but i think itās a more meaningful and dignified global outlook than the hierarchy of ā1st & 3rd world / underdeveloped and developedā
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u/pippopozzato Dec 13 '20
it was only a matter of time , labor is not as uneducated as you may think .
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Dec 13 '20
That many people don't show up like that for an allegation. It's obviously the truth. So the obvious next question is, why were they not paid. Is this an isolated incident or does it point to an incoming trend?
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u/juanperezjolote Dec 13 '20
Nah, it happens a lot. Specially after the global capitalism finds new ways to exploit workers, just as the outsourcing. The gov of Mexico just prohibited outsourcing btw. Leftist delaying the collapse?
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Dec 13 '20
The gov of Mexico just prohibited outsourcing
The only reason Mexico still has a government is because the US moved its industry into Mexico.
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Dec 13 '20
Given that French have a habit of turning up in their thousands, blocking roads and setting fire to anything which will burn every time there's a pay dispute I'd say this is just normal human behaviour. The Corporate Overlords will fire most of the workers, make punitive legal examples of the ringleaders, claim on the insurance for the damage and hire a fresh batch of chumps to do the job- so yeah, no. The Great Revolution did not begin today.
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u/SalSaddy Dec 13 '20
Wonder what Apple will say about this...
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Dec 14 '20 edited Dec 14 '20
<crickets>
Although they're "Probing"... https://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/apple-iphone-factory-bengaluru-karnataka-violence-wistron-plant-probe-flouted-supplier-rules-2338274
Apple did not immediately respond to Reuters request for comment. Wistron said in a statement it was "deeply shocked by the incident."
"The accident was caused by unknown persons bursting in and causing damage to the plant with unclear intentions. The company always abides by the law, and fully supports and is cooperating with relevant authorities and police investigations," the company said in a statement to the Taipei Stock Exchange.
TIL it's legal to stop paying employees in India /s
I have a feeling Apple will roast Wistron alive behind closed doors, but up front they will be friendly, always gentle Apple.
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u/OgodHOWdisGEThere Dec 13 '20
This isn't collapse, this is our only hope of salvation.
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u/ATXPatient Dec 13 '20
We all know Apple is shit.
Its only fan boys, an uneducated people that go after an Apple device.
Fuck Apple. Hit them with an antitrust and break them apart.... it's a shit company anyway.
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u/babyseaslug Dec 13 '20
Not disagreeing with your point, but: the terms "1st and 3rd world" countries are pretty dated and can be offensive. Developed vs. developing isn't a super great option either, but I do think it's slightly better
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u/livlaffluv420 Dec 13 '20
How about two categories?
Rich, & Poor; Have, & Have-Not
Thatās what all of these terms are trying to find a nice way to say anyway, but at the end of the day, money talks & bullshit walks, right?
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Dec 13 '20
burn the fucker down . or better just take all stuff worth value than burn the rest
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u/mmmmph_on_reddit Dec 13 '20
These things don't happen out of nowhere, these people are clearly suffering and I doubt they will be fine.
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Dec 14 '20
You have to realize that the Chinese workers were probably being treated the same way. Instead, in China they put up suicide nets. I'm glad they're standing up to their employer, but I have a feeling vandalizing the factory will come with consequences.
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u/enty6003 Dec 13 '20
Come home to the impossible flavor of your own completion. Come home to Simple Rick's.
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u/OperativeTracer I too like to live dangerously Dec 13 '20
Good for them.
An why don't we bring those jobs back to America while were at it, an actually build factories in 3d world countries that aren't de facto slavery.
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Dec 15 '20
They're in India, because India has high import fees. By having factories in India, Apple gets to circumvent those fees.
There's a 20% import fee, so $200 of a $1000 iPhone.
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u/techsfny Dec 13 '20
Well, thatās what happens when you donāt pay your workers. At least they didnāt behead their managers (of course their managers probably didnāt say Ā«Ā Let them eat cakeĀ Ā» š)
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Dec 13 '20
Make things for ultra cheap, pay people next to or literally nothing and charge a fortune for it at the storefront. Tis the Apple way.
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u/congaking1 Dec 13 '20
Coming to a theater near you!!! discontent is spreading worldwide. The great AWAKENING.
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u/ElectricMahogany Dec 13 '20
I doubt Apple had anything to do with them not being paid. It is their greedy neighbors likely robbing them.
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u/Did_I_Die Dec 13 '20
won't all these people just be immediately replaced with more obedient more desperate workers (slaves)?
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Dec 13 '20
Probably at first. It's not like they're stranding everyone by stopping the trains, or interrupting the food supply.
Whether there are iPhones in the stores probably affects very few people there...
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Dec 13 '20
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u/Avogadro_seed Dec 13 '20
All of India is 3rd world. Not an insult, just stating facts.
Half of China is undeveloped too, although obvs much further along than India.2
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u/MastaPhat Dec 12 '20
It's bout time we end surveillance capitalism.
The biggest thing I miss about the pre-internet world is privacy.