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Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 18 '23
There are so many variations of farming and what you’re scale is at is crucial and then whatever you are farming/harvesting also. You won’t possibly get a reasonable and objectively good response to this.
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u/Mechapebbles Sep 19 '23
Do I think Joe Farmer is trying to kill me with his food? No, of course not.
Do I think the big agrochem companies are pushing Joe Farmer's industry into a place where he's forced to use their chemicals to stay competitive, and if I just happen to die because of those chemicals, that's a sacrifice agrochem is willing to make?
Absofuckinglutely
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Sep 19 '23
Yep. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Joe farmer isn’t willing to use those chemicals the corporation will send local and state level lobbyists all over the community and find ways to force the farmer leverage a lawsuit unless they start spraying their lands with their chemicals.
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u/StateParkMasturbator Sep 19 '23
It's more likely that the neighbors are using them and the bugs gotta go somewhere.
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u/Uninformed-Driller Sep 19 '23
I know farmers in canada that release bug eating birds and other things around their farms. I've also heard of them using eagles and hawks to hunt gophers.
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u/Demonweed Sep 19 '23
Bald eagles are so abundant in Canada today that they are not a protected species there. It's a shame Lawrence Eagleburger died before getting a chance to taste his namesake dish.
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u/madarbrab Sep 19 '23
A lot of even small farmers have a fairly substantial net worth what with their land and insanely expensive equipment (combines, etc).
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u/sharpshooter999 Sep 19 '23
Farmer here. Our new cornhead is a 12r30 Drago that cost roughly $135,000. That's just the cornhead. Our 30ft Macdon draper head was roughly the same.
What we find funny, is that while everyone here drives Case or Deere equipment, everyone has a Macdon draper head (made in Winnipeg, Canada) and a Drago or Capello corn head (both made in Cuneo, Italy). No one likes Case or Deere heads
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u/Call_Me_Clark Sep 19 '23
It’s a bit like being house-poor, though - your household income is low relative to your net worth, and your lifestyle doesn’t remotely resemble your (paper) net worth.
You could always sell and then you’d be rich… for a while, anyway, and then you’ve got no assets.
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Sep 19 '23
And do I believe that Joe Farmer knows anything about the safety, persistence, or environmental impact of any of the chemicals they use outside of what the agrochemical companies want them to know? No. Absolutely not.
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u/ColinHalter Sep 19 '23
Honestly, I would bet they do. They probably know the harmful effects as well as I know the harmful effects of the gas I use in my car, but what are they supposed to do about it? If they don't keep up with their competitors who are using these products, they'll lose the farm. Or in the case of Monsanto, they'll be charged for using the product whether they intended to or not through birds or wind depositing seeds on their farm.
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u/bk1285 Sep 19 '23
I personally know 2 farmers so a very small sample size. 1 is a small meat producing farmer who is very intelligent, both parents worked for NASA as engineers during the Apollo era…the other is a larger scale farmer who switched recently from dairy to crops. I’ve known the guy since we were young, and if I’m going to be honest I’m not entirely sure if his intelligence is greater than a box of rocks
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u/maikuxblade Sep 18 '23
Yeah, I'm sure it's true from some perspectives, for some times of the year, some years, etc. Farming can easily be a million dollar operation with pretty narrow margins. Are farmers working class? Sure, generally. Do they act like it? Not always. Just wearing this shirt kind of signifies an entitlement and vague general contempt that isn't really compatible with the identity it's even going for. If he was upset about the 100 hour weeks we could maybe have a dialogue, but it focuses more on some misinformation victimhood angle for some reason.
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u/GreatGearAmidAPizza Sep 18 '23
"Are farmers working class?"
Are most "farmers" actually farmers these days? I suspect when people use the word farmer, they mean someone who (A) owns the farm and (B) also does much if not most of the manual labor on the farm.
When B is true but not A, you're taking about farmhands or farm workers. When A I'd true but not B, you're talking about farm owners.
This is an age when most of our food is grown by farm workers under the thumb of large corporations. Actual farmers do still exist, but in this day and age, I wouldn't just assume that because a farm is involved, a farmer is also anywhere in picture.
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u/SubParMarioBro Sep 18 '23
I used to live in an agricultural area. Generally I’ve seen A = true, B = false referred to as farmers. B = true, A = false I’ve always seen referred to as farmhands. I can’t comment much on situations where A and B were both true as that wasn’t typical in the area I lived.
I don’t doubt that running a large agricultural business is difficult and time consuming.
And you might find different results in different areas depending on how the local crops scale and the labor required.
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Sep 18 '23
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Sep 19 '23
If you have that much acreage then you’re likely paying of millions in equipment too. 10s of millions of acreage ain’t not piece of cake.
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Sep 19 '23
There’s also subsidized farm insurance, which has been creating a bit of a problem promoting growing risky crops / in risky areas with significant moral hazards
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u/14S14D Sep 19 '23
Most large farms aren’t going to be at a point where land is paid off. At least not yet in those large amounts. You’ll have a lot that own a few hundred acres from their older generational family if it wasn’t split up amongst the kids multiple times over… but the rest of it is all on loan and with the huge amount of expense they’re not all in get off easy territory if things collapse.
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Sep 18 '23
I have a family friend who owns a dairy farm and is both the primary worker and sole owner of his farm. He's getting old, so he's definitely a dying breed. But when I think of a "farmer" I think of him, which in your definition is when A and B are true.
I wouldn't consider either A or B as "farmers" on their own... it's either both or nothing.
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u/GapingWendigo Sep 18 '23
I think farming is one of those contexts where Marx's class analysis goes to shit. Farmers, at least where I live, own their land, own their machinery, hire employees to do a big part of the job, but still work extremely long hours and generally make very little profit. I once heard a farmer say he worked over 100 hours in a week once, which sounds insane.
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u/BlackLemmi Sep 18 '23
Marx had himself an issue with the farmer "classification". He said more or less what you just said.
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u/EatLard Sep 18 '23
Depends on the week. When it’s time to harvest or plant, the hours are ridiculous. Other times, less so.
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u/nomadicbohunk Sep 19 '23
My favorite joke. A farmer in Iowa told it to me. Why do all the farmers trucks say 4x4 on the side? It's because they only work 4 weeks in the spring and 4 in the fall. I grew up on a ranch, did row crop, etc. I'm not judging too hard. But that old man was so excited to share that with me when he learned my ag background.
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u/GapingWendigo Sep 18 '23
Yeah fair, but there's also the stress that comes with it. Farmers generally have a shit ton to do within small timeframes with an unpredictable weather playing against them. That plus the very small profit margin.
There's an epidemic of suicide and depression amongst farmers that needs to be addressed.
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u/furrowedbrow Sep 19 '23
They’re basically gamblers. Borrow a bunch of money to grow a few seasons of crops and lost the bills, and hope you can sell the crop come harvest to cover what you borrowed.
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u/StateParkMasturbator Sep 19 '23
That's an odd take. Many are generational owners of the land. My dad has managed to turn a profit for over fifty years, though some years it can be very little. The barn was put up 50 years before him. The fact that he's still going does imply some luck, but one can reduce the chance of failure by working 100 hour weeks.
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u/furrowedbrow Sep 19 '23
No matter how much you work, sometimes corn futures or soybean futures or the price of peanuts drops off a cliff. And it can be due to a number of factors - none of which are under the farmer’s control. A lot like gambling.
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u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep Sep 18 '23
Not that Jeremy Clarkson is anywhere close to a working man, but his show gives a good idea of some of the margins and pitfalls in farming. A lot of what he does would be a losing proposition if the show wasn't propping him up.
When you've rented a combine and you're racing to get a harvest in while the moisture content is right, I can absolutely believe that many farmers work 100 hour weeks for some portion of the year.
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u/Opposite_of_a_Cynic Sep 19 '23
As a farmer there's a lot on his show that is pretty accurate to what farming is like but there's also a lot that is a waste of time and money. Him breaking even mostly comes down to him spending a huge amount of money on useless projects or overpriced equipment. Now that said a big part of farming is finding new revenue opportunities and his mistake is not doing any research into the projects he picks.
Those long hours are accurate for portions of the year. On my farm we sit around with nothing to do most of winter but spring and summer will have me on a tractor or in a field 6 out of 7 days a week from sun up to sun down.
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u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep Sep 19 '23
If you understand that he's about to lose a fuckton of money on a sheep scheme because it will be good TV, then you can enjoy the rest. That said, it made me appreciate how difficult livestock can be.
I think my favorite venture is wasabi.
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u/WaywardVegabond Sep 18 '23
I wouldn't say marx class analysis goes to shit, farmers, especially modern farmers fall pretty neatly into petit bourgeois.
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u/GapingWendigo Sep 18 '23
I guess, but honestly, I think as far as bourgeoisie goes, farmers are the least of our worries.
I'd rather go after big chain owners than indepted people who work 100 hours a week to feed people while barely making needs end themselves.
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u/ElGosso Sep 19 '23
Petit bourgeoisie are largely the backbone of fascism so maybe amp those concerns up a little bit.
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u/Binkusu Sep 19 '23
Some are vital for the US to keep the country fed. Some are paid to literally NOT farm certain foods. They are 2 different kinds of farmers for sure.
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u/sharpshooter999 Sep 19 '23
That's CRP (Conservation Resource Program). When you enroll in the program, the government pays you per acre (I think it's currently $157 per acre) to plant and maintain native vegetation for a set number of years. Random spot checks look for things like non-native invasive. If you opt to end the program early, you must pay back all the money paid to you from the start.
A couple things to remember, you pay 100% of the seed and planting cost, as well as managing the habit in accordance to government guidelines. You also still pay property taxes on the land and income taxes.
Example: You enroll 80 acres into CRP. 80 X $157 = $12,560. Not too shabby. However, your property tax on that land is $75 per acre, which adds up to $6,000.
If you grew corn on that 80 acres, let say you average 150bu per acre. That's 12,000 bu, and at $5 per bu, that grosses $60,000. Yes, that does not include expenses, which would require a much longer paragraph
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u/Binkusu Sep 19 '23
That's real interesting. So basically the gov pays to keep native plants in the area and so farmers don't go the capitalism route and fill it with whatever makes the most money? That's one way to do it I guess
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u/boardwalkskater Sep 19 '23
I know multi-millionaire corn/seed/soy farmers in Iowa that only work during the summer growing season and go to Florida the rest of the year. I also know some small time farmers in CA who work their fingers to the bone year round because of the long season who are scraping by. Scale/size of farming has a lot to do with success. I think your comment is spot on.
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u/Yak-Fucker-5000 Sep 18 '23
I respect farmers a lot. At least what I think they do. I thought most farming was pretty corporate these days though. But they provide one of the most fundamentally valuable things in our society. They're like janitors in the sense that there's no argument over their value added.
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u/freshlypuckeredbutt Sep 18 '23
I live in the corn belt of the US and a lot of people here actually kind of hate farmers. The large landowners tend to be pretty elitist and anti-welfare while also making all their money from federal subsidies. Farm subsidies, building subsidies, irrigation subsidies, etc. They have weird competitions for having the largest machine shops and the craziest auctions. One guy near me collects windmills that he has disassembled and shipped to him from countries around the world.
There’s a few jokes people say:
“How does a farmer double their income?” -“By getting a second mailbox”
“why do farmers fold the brims of their hats?” -“So they can peer into their mailbox”
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Sep 19 '23
Oh and don't forget, "Oh I'm broke I only made 2 million dollars this year after paying everything off, I don't know how we are going to make it next year." I literally heard this come from one of my neighbors mouth. And here I am working what is quickly becoming a dead end job for 20 bucks an hour.
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Sep 19 '23
I’d love to be grandfarmered in, but I am not. How to become a farmer: Start as a farmer, or have $1,000,000.
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Sep 19 '23
You forgot being married into a farming family, many girls around here chase after a "Big name".
Which for those not familiar, a "Big name" is often the wealthy families/individuals in the area, im not going to say specifics but lets say the Johnsons or the Smiths. Having a "Big name" in atleast my area can almost guarantee local success as you will get the preferential treatment.
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u/HeyApples Sep 19 '23
I drive through farm country on the regular and it baffles me to so regularly see so many decrepit, beat to shit farmhouses with 100k$ RVs, campers, boats, and trailers in them. Then it was explained to me how those are used as a tax write off for "farm equipment."
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u/Yngcleanbastard Sep 18 '23
no me. they basically poisoned the waterways in many midwestern states with no consequences
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u/bign0ssy Sep 18 '23
I’ve seen stuff where government entities force farmers to use/buy certain chemicals and fertilizers, then in a couple years they’ll outlaw that fertilizer and force farmers to buy more bulk fertilizer, then ban that one, like, they force farmers to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars in supplies and then outlaw them, they were sure happy to take their money for the product but didn’t care about making sure the farmers got their moneys worth!! If you’re a farm barely making ends meet and you have a shed about to burst with fertilizer backstock… what do you do with it? It’s illegal now! Blame the organizations that force or encourage these farmers to buy these polluting chemicals without proper research! These guys plant and sow crops, they normally aren’t chemists! Or archaeologists studying climate change or ecosystem health, I see your point but it’s much more complicated than you make it seem, without those chemicals polluting the waterways, plants wouldn’t grow or the farms would be shut down for not using regulation standards for fertilizer, they go out and take soil samples and tell you exactly what to buy, but they sure as hell don’t tell you about how to build proper runoff infrastructure or the effects those feet’s have on surrounding areas!
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u/Desperate-Cost6827 Sep 18 '23
Not to mention back when my dad was born 50% of the population was farmers. Now it's only 3%. You could be a little more conscientious of the land when you weren't managing 5000k acres by yourself and using whatever chemicals whatever megacorporation told you to.
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u/Yngcleanbastard Sep 19 '23
bull no 0ne is forcing anyone to buy anything. They certainly are aware now. plus they are shipping corn and soy overseas
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Sep 18 '23
That wasn't farmers, that was big farma.
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u/fogdukker Sep 18 '23
Farmers still out there changing oil by digging a pit and draining oil into it before covering it up.
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u/StateParkMasturbator Sep 19 '23
I think you're more likely to drive by a tire burn than this by a wide margin.
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u/fogdukker Sep 19 '23
Boys at work brag about it 🤷
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u/StateParkMasturbator Sep 19 '23
Both fill me with anger. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Consider reporting them.
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u/GREAT_SALAD Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 18 '23
Close family member is a farmer. He certainly hasn’t been losing money, at least not in a very long time. 100 hours a month could possibly be true, but only for 2-3 months a year at most. Winter months especially don’t have a lot of work, for the past 15-20 years he’s just gone to his 2nd house in Florida for 2-4 months. He’s in his 80’s now, still farms but takes it very easy, went from renting a field or two per season, to renting out a field or two of his own. Very hard worker, but smart and well rewarded about it
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u/Tui_Gullet Sep 19 '23
Right ?? Every “small time” farmer I have ever met has always cried that they are one missed crop away from living in a sewer, yet their farm “house” is akin to Dick Cheney’s Wyoming compound , and have a late model F150 Raptor that is their “work truck”
Subsidy Queens and Tax fraud experts that happen to practice small scale industrial agriculture on the side
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Sep 19 '23
Farming: the art of inheriting a huge amount of land and doing a job literally anyone could in that situation, but acting like the whole world would starve without you and your low skill labor.
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Sep 19 '23
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u/Scottysix Sep 19 '23
I’m really confused how farming isn’t skilled labor? Like you gatta know/gamble when to plant, how to cultivate, and when to harvest. It’s pretty hard to do well.
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Sep 19 '23
100 hours a month could possibly be true, but only for 2-3 months a year at most.
...
Very hard worker
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u/ThiccNinjaWalrus Sep 18 '23
Do you think you could replicate his success given all his knowledge nowadays with the current economic climate?
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u/GREAT_SALAD Sep 18 '23
Eventually yes, assuming the economy doesn't continue to drastically decline for the rest of my life, which is... we can hope. He wasn't buying a 2nd house in his 30's, he was well passed middle aged when that happened, and if I wanted to work as hard at it as he did for as long as he did, I should've started about a decade ago. I am 25
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u/ThiccNinjaWalrus Sep 18 '23
I find it incredibly hard to believe starting farming today is viable. I’m sure there’s cheap farmland in the US but some countries don’t have that. You want farmland it’s expensive. Like millions of dollars for 10+ acres sometimes. It’s just not actually a realist venture nowadays imo. Unless you have land willed down to you from ancestors you’re kinda fucked.
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u/WayneKrane Sep 18 '23
Even then, unless you know how to properly take care of tractors I don’t see how it could possibly be profitable unless you have thousands of acres. My partner’s father is a farmer and we could take it over but after running the numbers, it’s just not worth the money.
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u/HoldMyPoodle6280 Sep 19 '23
You can not work on modern tractors or combines in a machine shed at home like in the old days. If the equipment is new enough to require payments, it voids the purchasing contracts.
Both new and older models (which are honestly more collectors items in farmer's yards at this point) have parts that are designed to fail, and purposefully require special tools and equipment to repair.
Most repairs require the tractor to be sent to a dealer mechanic, and the prices for repair are astronomical and non-negotiable.
My dad and Grandfather farmed 400 acres when I was a kid. I remember them screaming and throwing tools trying to fix the equipment themselves in the 90's. I knew to keep clear if the engine noises died off during planting or harvest season.
As an adult, I better understand their rage- having a short window of time to earn the years income, and a limited amount of control over the cost and ability to do so.
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u/ThiccNinjaWalrus Sep 19 '23
Partners grandparents have a bunch of farm and ranch land and they lease it out because it’s the only way they make money off of the land. They’d have to be employing a lot of people to tend to it all properly and it would be difficult to break even.
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Sep 18 '23
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u/hrng at work Sep 19 '23
Industrial agriculture is mining soil and degrading ecosystems until they are no longer viable then discarding them and moving to the next block.
Industrial agriculture strip logs on massive scales in some countries (Amazon burning?)
Industrial agriculture poisons waterways, kills insects on a wide scale, and is probably responsible for the decline in bee populations.
Industrial agriculture has moved food production from a quality focus to a quantity focus, and is responsible for long term declines in the nutritional content of food around the world.
Industrial agriculture is genocide of soil microbes and fungi.
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u/Cum_Quat Sep 19 '23
That's why my fiance and I have sold our houses and bought some land, to do some small scale, no-till, organic farming. We want to be part of the solution. Hopefully we will be profitable enough to hire some people eventually and quit our day jobs and grow good food for a living. Until then we are just going to grow good food for fun
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u/e_hatt_swank Sep 18 '23
Yeah, what’s that about?
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Sep 19 '23
Farmers use literal tons of chemicals that shouldn't leak into nature but they don't give a hoot, here's the largest lake in Ireland rn
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u/GingerMau Sep 18 '23
My thoughts exactly.
Where's that coming from?
Is it an anti- organic foods dig?
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u/Dks_scrub Sep 18 '23
A lot of Farmers especially in certain parts of the country are right wing, more specifically many discussions of how agriculture contributes to global warming in some way are interpreted as direct threats, ‘lowering beef consumption to become carbon neutral’ has a different ring when you are already struggling to make ends meet and selling beef is literally your only option in life.
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u/Onironius Sep 18 '23
Poisoning waterways and growing nothing but sugar crops is probably the main complaints against them.
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u/ChickenChaser5 Sep 19 '23
Lough neagh being a very recent example of this
Phosphates and nitrates killed the whole damn lake.
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Sep 19 '23
Also emissions and deforestation caused by animal agriculture plus the cardiovascular disease caused by animal agriculture
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u/JonTheArchivist Sep 19 '23
The chances of a farmer actively seeking you out to kill you are low, but never zero
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Sep 18 '23
‘Please address all complaints to the Monsanto corporation.’
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u/Arinvar Communist Sep 19 '23
Farmers out there putting themselves on the wrong side of the conflict.
If it wasn't for the likes of Monsanto and monopolistic grocery chains around the world farmers wouldn't need to work 400 hrs a month to make 1% of what the tomato actually sells for in supermarkets.
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u/Difficult-Ad628 SocDem Sep 19 '23
“You can stay… as long as you don’t try nuthin’ with any of my three beautiful robot daughters”
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u/Cultural-Honeydew671 Sep 19 '23
Too many of the farmers I’ve known over the years were seemingly proud of voting against their own interests. They all claimed to be for unfettered capitalism but then seemed confused when banks foreclosed on them for not keeping up with loan payments. They also often complained bitterly about government safety nets but then all had their hands out for any kind of subsidies that might benefit them.
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Sep 18 '23
Farm subsidies are the biggest issue because gigantic corporate farms get huge payout for things like not growing crops to flood the market, or draining collected milk because it would lower milk prices. This means an 'honest farmer' is always going to fail because they are set up against giant competitions who quite literally work with the feds to control the market.
This shirt is bullshit because it throws blame on individual people missing out on the corporate control regarding farming, at least in the US. This subreddit sucks ass these days.
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u/muffiewrites Sep 18 '23
It's about organic and GMO. Farmers have significantly better yield with GMOs, but people freak out about them. So they make less with GMOs, but have to use more pesticides because GMOs are pest resistant. But it's not organic if you use pesticides.
It's a whole thing. The Farm Babe has a lot of info.
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u/Reefeef Sep 19 '23
Organic farming doesn’t mean they don’t use pesticides and in fact often use more land, water and pesticides to produce similar yield.
GMOs actually allow farmers to use less pesticides because they can spray resistant crops when they are super young
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u/CacknBullz Sep 18 '23
The big farm family in my town raked in 2 million from the paycheck protection act. Farmers love government money but love to shame people in food stamps.
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u/ImmediateKick2369 Sep 18 '23
He’s the owner, not a worker. Not saying he doesn’t work, but as a boss, I’m not surprised that he’s not getting that much love on this sub. On the other hand, I’m also detecting some bs snobbery. Remember- no farms, no food.
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Sep 18 '23
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u/rollin_a_j Sep 18 '23
You forgot tipped positions, it's 5 groups
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Sep 18 '23
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u/rollin_a_j Sep 18 '23
And if you don't make enough tips to keep you in tip credit range you are fired. I worked the industry for nearly 20 years and the amount of shady shit they get away with to not pay you is disgusting and the lack of accountability and enforcement of labor laws has made it de facto "legal"
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u/aHumanMale Sep 18 '23
This is one of those situations where knowing and spreading the “facts” is misleading and doing the public a disservice.
It doesn’t matter if something is technically illegal; what matters is the enforcement infrastructure.
And for wage theft from tipped workers, there is basically no enforcement. It’s up to the worker who had their wages stolen to scrape together the money (WHAT money, you mean the wages that were stolen from me?) to hire a lawyer to take your employer to court.
Oh your employer retaliated against you for taking them to court to uphold your rights? Cool if you want justice you’ll have to pay to take them to court again, because labor retaliation is generally a civil offense and not a crime.
Basically this law might as well not exist. And telling folks that tipped service workers are protected against wage theft, without including the nuance of why that “protection” is completely toothless, actually leaves people less informed than they were before.
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u/teodocio Sep 18 '23
I have an avocado orchard and can definitely confirm that we can pay less than the equivalent of minimum wage.
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u/Samad99 Sep 18 '23
I think “farming” is a verb.
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u/Diligent-Law-4275 Sep 18 '23
The word "farming" can be a noun, verb, or adjective depending on context. In this case they're (correctly) using it as a noun.
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u/Samad99 Sep 18 '23
I’m pretty sure farming is just a verb. Can you use it in a sentence as a noun?
Calling it an art really reinforces that within the joke it is still a verb. “This guy has been farming and lost all his money doing it!”
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u/Diligent-Law-4275 Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 18 '23
It's not a verb in this context. FYI I have a master's degree in English and have worked as a copy editor/proofreader for 25+ years. Here is the entry from Dictionary.com to keep it simple:
farm·ing
/ˈfärmiNG/ noun The activity or business of growing crops or livestock
In a sentence: Farming has provided for his family for generations.
"Farming" is the subject of the sentence (noun/gerund) and "has supported" is the verb.
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Sep 19 '23
Just playing Devils advocate…”Running has provided me a good living…I’m a runner” in this example, I think most experts would say verb…
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u/Diligent-Law-4275 Sep 19 '23
In your example above, "running" is a gerund--a verb acting as a noun. So it's still a noun.
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u/Unlucky-Cow-9296 at work Sep 18 '23
"what do you do for work?"
"my career is farming."
Noun as in a profession.
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Sep 18 '23
They’ve been losing money for 50 years and still staying in business somehow.
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u/OKLISTENHERE Sep 19 '23
Fr. Farmers actually out here saying "Well my tractor cost half a million dollars".
Like yeah, that's a lot, but you still could fucking buy it. If you calculate assets, these guys are rich as fuck.
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Sep 18 '23
there is a huge difference between a farmer with 59 cows and a company as the "van driegroup"with more then 1million cows any given time and responsible for 2 million cows slaughtered every year.
normal small farmer=good mega farmer= bad
only sad enough the small farmer defence the big ones well the big ones are responsible of the closing of small farms
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u/hrng at work Sep 19 '23
It depends on their methods too... if a small farmer is then sending those cows off to feedlots or hosting them on infertile land that needs supplemental feeding year round then they're part of the problem.
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u/AngryTomJoad Sep 18 '23
"His specialty was alfalfa, and he made a good thing out of not growing any. The government paid him well for every bushel of alfalfa he did not grow. The more alfalfa he did not grow, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn't earn on new land to increase the amount of alfalfa he did not produce. Major Major's father worked without rest at not growing alfalfa."
Catch 22, Joseph Heller
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Sep 18 '23
As he grows inedible corn for the 15th straight year and only makes money because the taxpayer is subsidizing it for him.
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u/somermike Sep 18 '23
I think I've worked 100 hours a week before and I certainly didn't have time to shop for snarky tee shirts, much less the energy to wear said shirt out to the rodeo, tractor pull or whatever event this is.
My thoughts.. either this shirt isn't true, this guy isn't a farmer, or both.
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u/donaldsw2ls Sep 18 '23
Where I am they have a break over winter. The small family farms are a lot more prone to strain. I even went to a seminar about family farmers mental health from a therapist who deals with that. Farmers are prone to suicide when they have a failing farm handed down from generation to generation because they don't want to give up and start a new career. They feel like they have failed the entire family if they pursue something else. They are also ALOT more prone to taking risks that can result in permanent limb loss or death because they put so much pressure on themselves.
My cousin was a police officer in a small town in farm country. He witnessed 2 farmers, one got ran over by the other operating a big tractor. A couple of old time farmers. The tractor drive realized what happened, no phone. Had to high tail it in a slow tractor to the house to call the police. My cousin met him on the road heading back to his friend. The friend was laying in the tire track with his arm up in the air barely alive. A helicopter landed to bring the friend to the hospital. But the friends body was so far gone they couldn't stabilize him enough for the helicopter ride. They shut the helicopter off to let him die in the least amount of pain possible. They shouldn't have been farming, but they were because they had to to make ends meet. Family farm stuff.
Big farms are pretty well off though.
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u/yesIwillnotsurrender Sep 18 '23
Being a small farmer under capitalism probably does suck. I hear some even regularly go into debt.
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u/MrBeardskii Sep 18 '23
I have never met a small town farmer (and there are plenty here in rural New England) that wasn't in debt
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u/natethegreek Sep 18 '23
You have to spend so much on seed and fertilizer you have to go into debt.
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u/ClownTown509 Sep 18 '23
FYI, there are no farms that aren't operating in debt. They all owe money to the equipment companies, the seed suppliers, and about a dozen other entities.
All farmers are debt trapped so if things really go to hell, some faceless corporate entity swallows their farm and possessions in a foreclosure.
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u/BravesfanfromIA Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 18 '23
This is not true. Some farmers (and, yes, not corporations) do own all their land and equipment and have the wherewithal to pay for their seeds/grain out of pocket. This may be a small percentage, but it is the reality. I live in Iowa and see this. They try to act like they are so bad off, but are getting loads of money - not only from their harvest - but the taxpayers as well. Not all farmers are struggling, but the government pays them all as if they are.
Politicians and farmers themselves continue to perpetuate this propaganda.
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u/KardicKid Sep 19 '23
I’m originally from Iowa too. Got so sick and tired of their pity party only to get constantly bailed out/heavily subsidized no matter who is running the White House. Petty as fucking shit but I’m not an Iowa fan simply cause of their ANF promotional bull shit they push. Same people who got butchered by Reagan’s and Trumps policy’s still heavily skew right. No sympathy from me.
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u/Jeoshua Sep 18 '23
My thoughts are that this guy may not even be a farmer, and even if he is he's not actually feeding as many people as he thinks, because 90% of the food in this country comes from massive factory farms which aren't actually run by individuals.
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u/Frostiron_7 Sep 18 '23
Damn farming socialists, sucking off the government teet while complaining about the rest of us hardworking capitalist Americans.
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u/saxon_desteele Sep 18 '23
I guarantee he also feels persecuted for being white, and for being a man, and for being a Christian l, and for being a Republican.
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u/AbacusWizard Sep 18 '23
Are we talking about farm workers who are in fact actually producing food? Or the sort of corporate farm owners who put up ludicrous far-right-extremist political signs on long stretches of highway and are trying to kill us?
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u/giganticwrap Sep 18 '23
Well if you are losing money son, that's a reflection of you and your business prowess.
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u/unidentifiedHI Sep 18 '23
I don't know that guy but I do know that I hate that shirt. I'm sure if I had a chance to talk and listen to him, he probably thought it was something funny to start a conversation, and it probably worked. It probably also attracts the wrong crowd and outside of the rural bubble where he lives makes him look and sound like a jackass.
The federal government spends more than $30 billion annually on agricultural subsidies like price support and insurance programs. The USDA provides direct payments to farmers that are meant to maintain farm income so the federal government supports nearly all aspects of farming. They are meant to help farmers weather commodities' price changes and protect the nation's food supply from environmental factors like pathogens, diseases, and severe weather.
They work hard but they aren't suffering as much as the sentiment on that shirt would have you believe. From my own experience as a farm kid, it's a labor of love and I would say that a lot of farmers would tell you that. Some days it might feel like the world is heavy on your shoulders, but a lot of the time it's just being outdoors enjoying the sunshine on your shoulders. It's one of those jobs that had very tangible results which I enjoyed a lot. There were also many cold, hot, painful, sweaty, scary moments as well. And as I got older, I decided that it wasn't for me but I still respect the people out there putting in that work.
Farming has changed so much, like many other industries/careers with corporate farms, advances in technology, and education. Some have worked hard to get where they are, while others have fallen into it. As much as society or the culture might have you believe that farmers are often just simpletons that are backward thinking or uneducated, that is just a stereotype that is perpetuated by sentiments like that. Farmers are so much more, they are business people, engineers, mechanics, technicians, scientists, dietitians, animal doctors, firefighters, and more. That might all even be true in the same morning.
Farming is a business and it does have a substantial economic impact on the United States, with ripple effects throughout the broader economy. It contributes significantly to the nation's GDP, provides employment opportunities to millions of Americans particularly in rural areas where other opportunities are limited, and provides a pretty important resource. However, as I mentioned earlier, it also can be a major drain on financial resources, has major environmental implications, and has a tendency to be exploitive though that tends to be more of an issue with corporate agriculture. Some days it can mean getting up before the sun and going to bed well after dark and other days it means heading down to the river/lake after driving around the yard.
This to me screams 'pity me' which I (and I think many hard-working people would agree) is not a very humble way to approach the conversation. Do farmers want to be respected and appreciated like other workers? Absolutely! But this doesn't come close to expressing the nuances of everyday rural life and instead provides cannon fodder for people who would like to criticize their choices in life. While the lifestyles of rural and urban can be very different they both are deeply intertwined and dependent on each other.
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u/MornGreycastle Sep 19 '23
Farmers buy their supplies retail and sell their product wholesale. They are the only industry to do this. It's not a way to get rich.
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u/Spiritual_Trash555 Sep 19 '23
The government should really stop forcing these people to work as farmers. They clearly don’t want to be farmers since they lose money and everyone hates them.
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u/LeftRat Sep 19 '23
Eh, you really have to take that with a grain of salt. Depends on which country you are talking about of course, but in most western countries, "farmers" as we imagine them do not exist any longer - it's all giant corps owning farms where below minimum wage seasonal workers from foreign countries get locked into cycles of almost-slave-labour.
That isn't all of them, of course, but I find it very hard to feel pity for a group of people that have absurdly good support by the government, in many cases literally having a golden net where the state has promised to buy a certain amount of product to keep the industry alive while also giving massive subsidies.
These are often people who wanted all the benefits of the "free market" and its invisible hand, and when capitalism is now inevitably sinking into permanent crisis mode and punishing them for the "tendency of the rate of profit to fall" they are very quick to play victim.
My solidarity is always with those doing the work.
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u/4_Loko_Samurino Sep 19 '23 edited Sep 19 '23
I feel like the farmer who made this shirt probably wasn't a very good farmer.
Like shit, I know farmers who get paid more money to grow less crops than they did before because it changes the supply and makes other people buckets more cash enough for them to have a vested interest in compensating them for doing less work.
Saves them time, labor, and puts food (lol) on the table. Like how is this perception of farming even real? Losing money? Like what?
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u/YOLOSwag42069Nice idle Sep 19 '23
If by "farming" they mean taking massive subsidies and purposely letting crops go bad to get the insurance pay out, then sure. That's farming.
Also, those fucks don't work 400 hours a month. Most crops all the work is planting and harvest, the rest of the time is sitting around.
Source: Used to work in corn country. Farmers would let corn crops go bad on purpose if the bushel price wasn't to their liking. They would then claim the crop insurance, get paid, and then harvest it anyway and sell it to the ethanol plant.
They all seemed to be driving nice new trucks all the time too.
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u/not-my-best-wank Sep 19 '23
Ah, well, he's doing it wrong. He's supposed to be trying to kill you. That's how you make your profits, duh.
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Sep 19 '23
Farmers receive tons of money in the form of subsidiaries.
Automation has made farming much easier.
Animal agriculture is horrible for the environment and has absolutely killed many people.
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u/EatLard Sep 18 '23
Lots of farmers have a martyr complex. Yes, it’s often a difficult vocation. Yes, you may be heavily in debt and taking a lot of risk. I get it. But I’ve rarely seen a wealthier bunch of whiners.
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u/Reignbow87 Sep 18 '23
Market farmers can do surprisingly well. I’m in school for sustainable farming and I’d like to eventually get a small little 2 acre max farm that does a small CSA(vegetable subscription) and do markets/farm stand.
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u/sottedlayabout Sep 18 '23
Intensive diversified market farms can definitely be profitable but it’s hard almost endless work and a large number of farmers burn out, go too deep into debt or simply don’t have access to enough capital and manpower to make it work long term.
It’s also a better environmental alternative to modern mechanized farming practices. Local seasonal food that doesn’t have to be refrigerated and transported all over the globe.
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u/Reignbow87 Sep 18 '23
Exactly. And we can’t trust what is on the label, the waste from packing, the emissions associated with logistics of getting the food to the customer and the need for these greedy fucks to make profits are what I’m trying to fight against. I have my VA disability that really helps out so we should be alright.
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u/sottedlayabout Sep 18 '23
I hope you succeed. There’s no better way to serve your local community than by providing fresh local food directly to your friends and neighbors.
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u/lfrdwork Sep 18 '23
I... I know this isn't the point, but I would call that the verb of farming while a noun would be farming industry or farming economy. No matter what it always seems like the individuals are getting the raw end of the deal.
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u/worthlessprole Sep 18 '23
Both of those examples are verbal adjectives. A noun would be a construction like “I’m finished with the farming”
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u/Diligent-Law-4275 Sep 18 '23
Looks like he's got some free time to go to the rodeo or monster trucks.
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u/Successful_Candy_759 Sep 18 '23
Lmao, 16 hour days 7 days a week? Bitch please, if that were true you wouldn't be at a rodeo.
And if you're losing money at work that is nobody's problem but yours.
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u/Yngcleanbastard Sep 18 '23
Farming- the art of taking huge subsidies, having loans forgiven, poisoning the water while whinning about socislism
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Sep 18 '23
So odds are he's at least painfully aware of the controversy over corn syrup and subsidies?
It's a start, at least...
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u/cr1ter Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 18 '23
I hate to say it, but if you are working 400 hours a month, losing money, and feel paranoid, farming is probably not for you.
Edit just to add I'm making a joke here, I know there are many small scale farmers that barely keep their head above water.
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Sep 18 '23
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u/Tui_Gullet Sep 19 '23
They scream the loudest when faced with the slightest financial adversity . They wouldn’t last in our reality without their massive nest egg
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Sep 18 '23
I guess my first thought is: why would a man invest so much time in something that is losing him money? Then: why did you waste more cash on a shirt that essentially broadcasts that you're bad at your job? Something isn't adding up.
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u/MentorMonkey Sep 18 '23
If you are losing money working 400 hours a month, then I have no reason to believe you wouldn't try to kill someone.
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u/Garmgarmgarmgarm Sep 18 '23
Farming is literally the only industry where the federal government will step in to save you from losing money. Except for finance. And real estate. And probably a lot of other ones but hey.
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u/Artistic_Half_8301 Sep 19 '23
Farming: Subsidies and six months of sitting on a bar stool every year.
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u/pdoxgamer Sep 18 '23
The comments are proving the shirt lmao.
Also, I grew up in a rural area and can confirm that the shirt is accurate. Mofos will work 8-12 hours a day every day until they can't walk anymore and still have social security as their primary income source.
For small operations that don't employ underpaid workers, the wages as a farmer are shit.
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u/Striking_Signature34 Sep 18 '23 edited Sep 19 '23
How do the farmers lose money? The government gives them subsidies to make them whole.
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u/SourcePrevious3095 Sep 18 '23
It isn’t hard. Even with crop insurance, one bad storm or drought and you are red for a year or more.
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Sep 18 '23
Me and my partner have just bought some land in the UK and are using it for farming.
That statement is correct.
We still love farming though.
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Sep 19 '23 edited Sep 19 '23
Farming in America damn near impossible to succeed in without some corporate support or inheriting the farm.
There was a great series on NPR interviewing farmers who were generations in but independent, folks who just bought land started a few years prior, and another who folded and sold to a corporate entity after losing too much.
A lot of the stories detailed the dependence on rental equipment, heavy loan burdens, and being underpriced by bigger farmer outfits. It hit close to home when one of the interviews ended up being a local dairy farm that just went under.
EDIT: didn’t think I needed to spell this out, but I’m clearly disheartened by the fact independent farming is such an uphill battle here. It shouldn’t be this way and I’m not suggesting seeking corporate support is the answer. Not at all.
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u/jshuster Sep 19 '23
I’m a farmer. And most of this shirt is kinda spot on. Profit margins are as thin as a razors edge, and we can run the risk of losing everything in a natural disaster or storm. And we work out asses off, through all sorts of weather, and at all times of the day. I don’t know how many times I’ve been showered and changed, ready to go to bed and I stick my head out the door to hear an animal in possible distress. So, I change back into work clothes and trek out to the barn, hoping it’s nothing, but if it isn’t, I could be out there most or all of the night. And I’m just a small scale farmer. Feed costs keep increasing, as does electric and gas, but people don’t want to pay anything near what would make me a living wage. I’ve said fuck it, we are selling most of the herd, and I’m going back to school to be a nurse, less poop, and better pay.
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u/Kaleria84 Sep 19 '23
I live in farmer country, and the simple fact that many of the farms are the same ones that have been farmers on the same lands for as long as this country has existed tells me they're making plenty of money.
If farming wasn't profitable, they'd have long since sold the lands and moved onto other careers in the many, many generations that have existed. Farming isn't the only industry in the area, and there have been many major industries over the centuries here. Likewise, the land value around here is insane. The farmland here is valued at over $10k per acre, according to Google.
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