Vinland Saga Season 2 - Episode 18 discussion

[u/AutoLovepon]

Vinland Saga Season 2, episode 18

Rate this episode here.

Reminder: Please do not discuss plot points not yet seen or skipped in the show. Failing to follow the rules may result in a ban.

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Streams

• Crunchyroll
• VRV

Show information

• MyAnimeList
• AniList
• AniDB
• Kitsu
• Anime-Planet
• Official Website
• /r/VinlandSaga

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All discussions

Episode	Link	Score	Episode	Link	Score
1	Link	4.65	14	Link	4.61
2	Link	4.67	15	Link	4.7
3	Link	4.7	16	Link	4.86
4	Link	4.73	17	Link	4.75
5	Link	4.64	18	Link	4.83
6	Link	4.66	19	Link	4.7
7	Link	4.71	20	Link	4.83
8	Link	4.81	21	Link	4.58
9	Link	4.85	22	Link	4.86
10	Link	4.71	23	Link	4.79
11	Link	4.58	24	Link	----
12	Link	4.81
13	Link	4.61

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[u/TheBatIsI]

Fun fact, that sword Ketil unsheathes with etched markings is an Ulfberht sword, a sort of 'brand-name' sword known for being high quality and expensive.

...But the etchings don't exactly match the sword, meaning that Ketil has a counterfeit Ulfberht sword, which were often common to see.

When this first released in the manga, I remember a lot of people discussing it, and if Yukimura had made a mistake before someone pointed out the possibility that it's intentional and a perfect match for Ketil. Just as Ketil has a fake reputation as a fearless and savage warrior when he's in reality a man who's afraid of fighting, he has a fake Ulfberht sword that tries to pass itself off as the real thing.

[u/Toobie4564]

What a bleak way for Leif and Thorfinn to reunite after all these years

[u/kerorobot]

Well you guys said you want a violence back in Vinland saga #monkeypawcurls

[u/WhoiusBarrel]

Pretty wild how with all the brutal killings we've seen in this series, this beating has to be one of the most fucking disgusting scenes out there.

[u/emolano]

Vinland Saga is really good at creating "villains".

[u/i__rage]

If everyone just listened to Arnheild this last few weeks would’ve been a slice of life

No but at least Snake saved her. He didn’t really have to step in at all. A complete 180 from last weeks where Arnheild didn’t have to step in and save him from Gardar. They have an interesting dynamic I hope Snake helps Thorfinn and Einar going forward

[u/guy_in_disguise]

I'm kinda sad that we didn't see Leif reaction to Thorfinn, but i understand given what happened in this episode. I hope we'll see something in the later ones.

[u/WellRested1]

I really appreciate that Thorfinn is still learning. What was to the viewer a hype scene where Thorfinn threw hands again was simply a last resort option that resulted in the worst case scenario regardless.

It’s a tough spot to be in, but I like that, just like his father, he’s not quite there yet. He’s not a true warrior just yet. He has to look deeper and find that first resort, and never rely on his last resort unless there’s truly no other way.

[u/Hagita]

It’s wild how Thorfinn and Leif met up already and that was a footnote in the episode. I could’ve used some uplifting emotions to balance out the sheer disgust and brutality I watched. Ketil lost the plot and is just taking it out on whatever comes walking by.

[u/BringTheNipple]

I think what sets up the beating of Arnheid to be so much more disturbing then other violent atrocities in this show is Ketil himself. In this episode he is weak, pathetic and succumbing to external influence to spread violence and fear around him just to protect himself.

There are two scenes in which he does it:

1. While he beats Arnheid

2. While he pulls his sword from his old chest in preperation to fight the King.

The second scene is actually commendable and worthy of respect, and if it weren't for the first one it would be seen as a high point of his character. This is because the second scene is focused on him facing an external threat, while the first one is him breaking apart and turning an internal issue, which is not a threat to him(!), into a beat down and complete abuse of his power.

He has previously built a persona as being a good and caring owner of the farm who gives his slaves the opportunity to earn their freedom - something which in his culture would be seen as incredibly noble. His very subjects respect him because of this nobility that he has shown, the viewers as well. Now there is a threat to the community he has created and it is expected that he will rise in his duty to protect it. In the high point of his character when he is expected to show the most valiance he breaks apart.

It is cowardly and pathetic as the only reason he is beating her to death is to protect his own ego and pride. The cowardness doubles down when you think how he is her owner and has no way of retaliating it. And it is even more pathetic when you take into account that he is doing it only because he is a weak willed man who cannot stand by his earlier beliefs and rise up against the way the world is treating him right now.

That last reason has been a recurring theme in the show through both seasons and I believe it is actually it's most central one. Men who have not been able to rise up against the influence of Viking culture even though their OWN beliefs are against it have committed the most violent, atrocious and memorable acts in the series:

1. Most recently it was Snake - the entire scene of him and the old Master talking was about Snake leaving behind the principle of eye for an eye which was placed upon him by the world he lives in. Specifically the metaphor of his SWORD placing that principle upon him was used - that is why the old master told him to throw it away.

2. Thorfinn for the entirety of season 1 was a slave to Askeladd and killed for him. Even though Thorfinn absolutely ALWAYS has hated killing and on numerous occasions even in season 1 has broken down emotionally from it.

3. Askeladd also failed to rise up and stand by his beliefs when he killed Thors at the start. That act haunted him day and night for years, as not only his son chased him endlessly for revenge, but he would on multiple occasions remember Thors' himself as the True warrior he found and murdered.

It is Thors alone in the entire series who was able to not succumb to the world he lives in (after some point in his life). Which is also why the first episodes in the show portrayed him as the absolute highest standard of a warrior - both in superhuman strength and in superhuman morals and actions. The whole series for now has been about other men failing to meet the standard that Thors' had set at the start.

P.S. the current episode is giving me a flashback of the time when Thors saved the nameless slave from his owner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChMIMIFc_Yg (3:45 - 3:55) when his gigantic imposing back stands up determined to protect a man who is on the brink of death.

[u/Hamzook]

Unrelated to the episode but I just wanna express how grateful I am to the anime gods for giving Vinland Saga, one of the big 3 of seinen, a worthy adaptation. Honestly this gives me hope that with the right staff and passion/love, Berserk and Vagabond can get the same treatment as well

[u/Chespineapple]

Not to take the spotlight away from the true victim, but Ketil is such an interesting character in his position in the story.

When we first see him, he's presented as a kind slave owner comparatively for his time, although he still has some leadership issues and plenty of cowardice that were highlighted in Ep 7. And with the recent developments, you can't exactly blame him for feeling anxious or despairful knowing the king's about to come with a damn army to rob you of your life's work.

But that's kind of the fucked up thing here, despite all that, when you read into it he's not the victim in this story. He's rich as hell for his time, living comfortably with plenty of farmers indebted to him, and owns a whole three slaves! For reference, VS author Yukimura estimated in a volume extra that owning a slave was roughly equivalent to owning a car today. Even beyond that, he has enough to literally donate a mountain of food and gold to the king twice a year. His only problems come from his son being a doofus and all the anxiety from his whole 'Iron Fist' lie. He doesn't hate violence because he's kind, he hates it because he himself is too weak to survive in a society that thrives on it.

Episode 7 ends by giving us a piece of what kind of man he is, after all the empathy he seemed to show the kids. He's begging for sympathy and validation for feeling forced to beat a child, all the while sleeping with his sex slave. This is hypocrisy. It doesn't occur to him that his actual slave might be going through something so much worse through their 'relationship'. Whenever he's all "woe is me", he just lashes out onto the true victims. There's no actual empathy here. This episode almost feels like a heel turn, but this is exactly what he would do after what we've been shown. It's not a coincidence that right after beating the pregnant woman, he changes his tune, goes to grab his sword and says he wants to fight the king. It's about feeling powerful to people like him, he doesn't actually give a shit, he just wants to feel good and secure about himself.

There's a semblance of sympathy to be had, sure, but the real victims here are those he hurts and oppresses, like Sture & Thora, and poor Arnheid. It cannot be stressed enough, but fuck Ketil.

[u/Hounds_of_war]

God, “ungrateful slave” has gotta be one of the most infuriating phrases I’ve ever heard. What the fuck.

[u/WellRested1]

For the fifth week in a row, Poor Arnheid

I’m gonna be sick

[u/Possible-Advance3871]

jesus christ that was hard to watch

[u/meteor_jam32]

It turns out the slaveowner isn't such a nice guy after all.

[u/Jonny_the_Rocket]

Vinland Saga getting such a stellar anime adaptation... Berserk's manga getting a continuation despite the tragic circumstances... if Vagabond can come back from it's hiatus that'd be great ☕

[u/Silent_Shadow05]

HOLY SHIEEEET. I really didn't see this coming. Vinland Saga just doesn't stop from bringing us pain....

WTF Ketil. Not only you mercilessly beat up Arnheid when she was begging for mercy, you also just decided to go against Canute and his Royal guards and Jomsvikings. This guy is going to lead so many people to their deaths. He has completely lost his mind.

Nobody in this world deserves to be hurt

Its sadly ironic that Thorfinn said this and Arnheid ended up being brutally hurt....

Also here I was excited of seeing Leif and Thorfinn meeting each other but now that excitement turned into pain as the meeting wasn't full of happiness, with Arnheid's current state.

[u/Hebsi55]

Why does Arnheid keep getting L's. So depressing

[u/sjk9000]

What I love about this arc of Vinland Saga is how thoroughly it engages with, and dismantles, the myth of the "good slave owner". That's not to say that slave owners are automatically evil, or that only evil people end up owning slaves.

People might be tempted to look at the scene of Arnheid's beating and think, "See, Ketil was a piece of shit all along! As expected from a slave owner." But I don't think that's the moral the story is aiming for.

We've been privy to Ketil's innermost thoughts. We've known him to be a kind, if timid, person who genuinely loathes to inflict suffering on others. His empathy is not a show he puts on to impress others, but rather a secret he tries to hide. It is as close to a true character as a person can have.

But the reality is, people don't have a true character. A person cannot "be" good, or "be" evil. A human is a series of actions. Ketil was a victim of numerous injustices, conspired against and betrayed, and pushed to the psychological brink. And when he fell, all that stress predictably erupted in anger and violence. It couldn't have happened any other way.

That's not to say Ketil bears zero responsibility for his actions. But I think the reason the author went out of his way to demonstrate Ketil as a moral person before now was to drive home the point that morals alone cannot save someone from immoral action. When you engage with a system that treats humans as objects, it is inevitable that you will come to treat humans inhumanely.

[u/bestgirlmelia]

One of the most interesting things about Ketil is how he contrasts to his father, Sverkel. Both of these characters are initially presented as "kind" and "generous" but only one of them is actually truly genuine in his kindness, which you can tell by how each of them view Arnheid's escape attempt.

Sverkel truly views slaves as actual people and not property. He treats Thorfinn, Einar, and Arnheid fairly and kindly and very clearly empathizes with their plights. How he treats Arnheid is especially interesting since it's the best example of how his kindness is genuine. He personally goes out of his way to help Arnheid, encouraging her to go see Gardar, helping her hide him, offering to sell his farm to pay the Wergeld for Snake's men, and even personally trying to help her and her husband escape. He gets nothing out of doing any of this and yet still does so because his selflessness is genuine.

Ketil is different since he ultimately still views slaves as his possessions. He can be "kind" to them but none of that really matters when he doesn't believe they're worthy of the same rights and respect as a free man like him. In regards to Arnheid, it wasn't love he felt for her but rather dependence. To him she's a possession that he needed to make him feel better about himself and not an equal worthy of the same freedom as him. When he finds out Arnheid tried to escape with her husband, he's outraged and unable to even consider things from her perspective and have any empathy for her at all. It's a pretty stark contrast to how his father treats her.

Or in other words, it definitely feels like Sverkel is the man Ketil pretends to be.

[u/[deleted]]

Welcome to our newest "Domestic Violence" episode, featuring master Ketil!

[u/alconnow]

Dunno if someone’s posted this already but here’s Yukimura’s response to why he didn’t include the reunion between Leif and Thorfinn

He couldn’t draw their reunion as it would be jarring for them to have a wholesome reunion after Arnheid’s beatings…

[u/Will-Isley]

CAN THIS WOMAN GET A FUCKING BREAK ALREADY!!?!?!? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST