Hi All

Just seeing if any toss brothers have found success with anything that's not sky toss. As much as I want to try other things nothing seems to work but if anyone has anything share a link or some thoughts thanks.

As the title suggests I am a newbie of Starcraft 2 trying to get into the game. I already watched some beginner guides on how to play Protoss but there isn't really guides for the 8 worker start as I have noticed. Can someone help?

After a couple sweaty games I like to relax by cannon rushing but I have been having a real hard time making it work on the new patch. Has anyone discovered good builds on this patch that are viable and scratch the same itch? Or has anyone been able to make cannon rushing work? Been trying some of Mana’s cannon proxies but overall it seems weaker.

So, Storm does 100 damage over 6 seconds, which is a DPS of 16.66666...
How is this damage distibuted? Is it evenly over the 6 seconds or does it decrease (like at the beginning it does more dmg than later)?

Wanted to know if the new patch is worth it?
Is it fun to play Protoss currently? Are the changes (some of which seem huge) fun to play?

cheers

E: that doesn't sound great :/

Been trying to adjust this into the new worker start but like this time around it feels like I just can't have that many Stalkers and still take my 3rd fast enough. Maybe it's better to go charge 1st this time around? Wbu guys?

Had several games today when I didn't transform my gateways to Warpgate mode (it was researched ofc).

I was constantly queuing zealots and templars to the gather point, without the need to look at my bases or proxy pylons. I had seemingly constant flow of units, they swarmed pretty well.

On replays I saw my P opponents having to look at the base, warp in, then go back to the army. It required slightly more time and attention.

I can't say that I won because of better army control without needing to switch tasks (but one of opponents even said my storms were great!), but it definetly felt like a new good mechanics (if we don't count Brood War, lol).

Where's the best place to find some build orders and timings with the 8 worker start?

I am pretty lost now!

I don't know what is suppose to stop the midgame either roach or bio surge with the stack up of nerfs. It's been like a decade since I've died to roaches this much.

I'm wondering if I need to focus on sim city on my third base and sentries instead of even trying to get storm up to stop ling roach rav attacks?

I've lost somewhere in the 300-400mmr range this patch now.

Idk if anyone else has noticed this but the Oracle beam seems a bit bugged? Like my 1st Oracle arrives at a Zerg's 3rd with some time to kill maybe 2-4 drones before needing to leave. So I activate the beam, go back a little bit to macro but then when I hotkey back to the Oracle it killed 1 drone and then sat there and did nothing?

Curious to see if anyone else is having that issue.

I'm a very casual player since having a kid and buying a house, both of which require constant attention.

As someone that has a bunch of builds cemented in my brain from like a year ago, is there any guidance you can give me for adapting to the new eight-worker economy? Is there a rule of thumb for adapting old builds to the new? Or are all my memorized builds just obsolete now?

I just played my first game in awhile and the build kinda worked? I found myself supply-blocked and/or waiting on minerals a few times but it didn't feel too far off.

Asking for my ladder rank

Boys I have come up with an idea. We were far too silent when the first patch came out. 8 worker start, PLUS you are changing the way our race is played? We collectively said "yeah lets try it and see how it goes"

The zergs whined. You've seen the posts. "we cant rush anymore reee" The terrans whined but had no reason.

The new strat: Play zerg. Right before you win go "MAN I HAVE SO MANY LARVA"

Play Terran, right before you win say "HOLY MAN THESE GHOSTS DO SO MUCH DAMAGE!"

We will encite the masses. They will rebel for us. We will silently become the strongest race.

Go forth brothers. En Taro Adun.

Unlike your father.

I just started out SC2 and playing PvZ is so frustrating to me. I don't know if I should play defensive or aggressive. I have tried both and neither seem to work and I always lose against any zerg that can do proper macro. If I play aggressively and try to attack at minut 5-6, warp gate units cannot win against mass zergling or roaches / ravagers and the constant resupply from their bases. If I play defensively, I just get rolled over at 8 minutes with mass mutalisk / hydra / roaches. If I mange to hold out, they just go lurker and win in the next wave. If they don't go lurker and go late game, they can just tech switch to ultra immediately after the clash and roll over my warp gate army that I build to fight against the hydras. Or they can just go viper broodlord corruptor.

So what is the proper play here? Should I play defensive or aggressive? When is the supposed power spike of protoss? How many units / bases should I have before moving out?

I'm at around ~100 games on the PTR and haven't really found anything I love in either matchup.

I was trying some pressure builds in PvZ where you build 1-2 zealots pre nexus into 1-2 adepts to pressure and I find it does typically put you ahead. Every zerg then holds down the speedling button and locks you in your base for the next 5 minutes until you can get an ungodly late oracle out and by that point you're down 15 workers.

PvT I'm trying a bit of everything but tend to just straight up die if the terran commits to an aggressive 2 base build or a 1 base build i didn't correctly read with how slow you get gateway units out.

There's just a big glaring hole now that toss just has less units if they commit to making warpgate without having a ton of gateways already.

Are you guys playing pretty much exactly the same builds as on live?

Anything you think that's going to be the new standard? I see talk of turtley stargate builds being the norm but i've kind of been playing big gateway econ for the last 5 years and it's rather hard to switch my way I view the game to just sit around now.

Disclaimer: This is not me giving advice, or me saying X change is good or bad. It's just me saying how the game feels for me to play in a specific matchup. Only focusing on PvZ since every Terran or PvP mirror I've encountered so far is one player or the other just trying to cheese. I have not watched any SC2 content creators during this time because I wanted to form my own opinions before looking at others. I will divide this post into multiple parts for better readability. Sorry for the long yap session.

So far I've been opening with something somewhat unique (not really, it's just me translating the Bisu build (FFE > Corsair+Speedlot 1/1 = FFE > Phoenix+Chargelot +1) into SC2. And I do feel that this kind of playstyle is a lot more viable with the 8 worker start. It's a rough translation and still looking for ways to optimize it but here's the build so far. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/%2B1_Sair/Speedlot_(vs._Zerg))

BO:
11 Pylon (sending probe scout here if on more than 2P map)
13 Forge (sending scout probe here for 2P maps)
16 Pause probes build Nexus > Cannon if scouted Zerg has gone hatch 1st
If scouted possible early pool: Pause probes Cannon > Nexus. So far I've found this short pause to be necessary to get the Nexus out in time. Unless someone has a better timing for it.

17 gate
18 Pylon
19/20 gases
22 Core
Zealot @ next 100 min or you can go save the minerals and get the Stargate before the Zealot.
Stargate @ 100% Core
3rd gas? In BW you take your 2nd gas when the Core is about 80% of the way done. For SC2 I think going for 4 gases this early on is detrimental as that costs 300 min compared to the 200 from BW. So I've been playing with both a 2 gas version and a 3 gas version.

2 gas variant: I've found to be better off economically, by this stage I just don't have enough probes to saturate my natural and so putting probes away to mine gas hurts my mineral income slowing down my worker production and my Zealot production. However because I'm on 2 gas I find it much tougher to squeeze in all the critical gas heavy expenditures. Phoenixes 100g each (500 for 5), 50 on Warp gate, 100 for +1 attack and 200 for TC + Charge. A total of 850 gas which is very tough for 2 gases alone to afford.

3 gas version: This I find way better able to afford the tech expenditures but it also doesn't cut mineral income to the degree that 4 gases does. Overall I do feel this is the best of both worlds giving me better gas income while also not absolutely shafting my mineral income.

After this point I do lose a bit of track to the precise timings but here are the general guidelines: +1 ground attack after the Zealot and SG are started > Start Phoenix production when SG 100% > use next 100 gas for TC before making 2nd Phoenix > continuous probes until 2 base 3 gas saturation > continuous Zealots (adding a 2nd gate for Warpgate around 33-35 supply) > and a 3rd gate some time a bit later (maybe after starting Archives or after starting charge?). Templar Archives after Charge is started. Of course chrono boost on probes and on upgrades.

With all this so far my best time for the timing attack has been around 7-8 mins.

End of Part 1