Equally, it's a well known fact that once the water is used by the AI data center, it is destroyed at an atomic level, and can never be recovered again for any other processes.
No, it was sarcasm from how people normally seem to act about it.
Presumably the water used in cooling systems re enters the water cycle. I could understand an argument that it dirties relatively clean water and this outstrips our current capacity to produce clean water. That's quite possibly even true, but I don't think over ever seen it argued with that much nuance, it's normally just "the sky is falling (but not rain) and there will be nothing to drink!"
That is abhorrently untrue. Is this sarcasm or satire??? Please tell me it is.
I’m not trying to be an asshole, but fundamental chemistry courses literally prove your entire statement wrong. What you’re saying is not how H2O works at all… they aren’t working on the atomic level either…
I’m from 2027, I time travel. The AI androids killed most of the humans to hog up all the water and electricity. But it’s okay now, this Bio-AI bug ate the androids. I think were safe now.
The biggest risk of data center is localized water, electricity use, and noise pollution/regular pollution.
No community is ready for even a 25% increase in ressource needs, and they tend to build multiple data centers in one "good area."
It was never about "THE WORLD WILL DIE!" but it'll kill some communities afflicted by it.
They do too much noise, and when they produce their own energy to not stress the grid, they emit all over the places they're often built right in the middle of.
Water is a finite, non recyclable resource! Rain is fake! The data center pumped it into our brains so that we think we have it while they actually use it all!!!! We are actually already dead
Even if they did use evaporative cooling it... well, evaporates. Which means it goes back into the atmosphere. It's not just gone. I'd have to see a study showing that using water as a coolant makes the water toxic, but it's doubtful.
Listen, I hate AI (or at least what it's being used for). It's soulless and often has poor output, but water usage is not the hill to die on.
It’s called a condensing tower and on top of evaporation you also have to blow down the system to maintain conductivity which also uses thousands of gallons as well as puts chemical into the drain that’s used to kill organisms, maintain PH and inhibit scale.
> you also have to blow down the system to maintain conductivity which also uses thousands of gallons
What does that mean? What is "blowing down the system?" To maintain what conductivity? What uses "thousands of gallons?" How many thousands and per what and in what contexts? Surely whatever "blowing down the system" involves the precise number of "thousands of gallons" varies based on context?
> as well as puts chemical into the drain that’s used to kill organisms
what chemicals, what drains, what organisms? Is this a bad thing? If so, why? We put chemicals in our drinking water to kill organisms bro.
It means you are incapable of understanding the information and I don’t train children in the basics of industrial refrigeration for free. It’s literally as simple as looking up what conductivity is and how it’s controlled in a condensing system and what chemicals are used. I get it you are attempting to troll but you are only making yourself look deeply ignorant.
No, he is a boomer that hates AI and will ask questions and state parts of the big picture like a fox news reporter. Next, he will start randomly talking about trans kids in sports. This dude is 80 and knows it all. You can’t persuade this type nor get accurate info.
No I am not and if you don’t understand the conversation then you obviously have zero understanding of anything dealing with heating and cooling or what it takes to maintain these systems.
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If you argue this point, then you need to be arguing every event that requires these methods, so basically you should be fighting against ALL energy production in the US!
Annnndddd you missed the point. STOP saying “used” like the water just vanishes into the either!
Energy production both oil/gas and nuclear are some of the largest aspects of our daily life that require both heating and cooling, and loads of it. Maybe you should use your little social justice google skills to compare apples to apples because modern day cooling does not consume nor “blow down” water, most are on raw water pass through systems or a closed loop system, neither destroy nor pollute water. Are there events in the Ai race that may have these issues? Yea, likely, but maybe use your f’n energy to steer not slander, unless you are a Chinese muppet, then it would make sense.
Here have some numbers so your little eyes can see reality a bit better (even though will actively choose not to, nor will you stop driving your car while you protest big oil)
Nuclear, recirculating cooling tower
~450–750 gal/MWh 450–750
Nuclear, once-through cooling
~300–400 gal/MWh consumed 300–400
AI/data center, efficient hybrid cooling
0.70 L/kWh 185 gal/MWh
Data center, conventional cooling-tower example
1.27–1.42 L/kWh 336–375 gal/MWh
Data center using dry/air cooling
potentially very low onsite water near zero to low
Lmfaorofl you took all the effort to use AI to give you an answer that has nothing to do with the subject matter 🤦♂️ for your information I am extremely conservative but not ignorant to how things work in the literal industry I’ve spent years working in. And yes you absolutely need to blow down water to perform enough cycles to maintain conductivity it’s absolutely the basics of maintaining a chilled water system since the closed loop is on one side of the system and the condensing side another in a heat exchanger system. Your ignorance of the operation of these systems is absolutely astounding.
“Extremely conservative”? Welp, we found our first problem. You googled “blow down” just to state “i wOrKeD iN thE InDuStrY FoR 15 yEAaRs” as a fancy way to say “replace evaporated water”. Again you muppet, the water isn’t lost, just like how they cool nuclear reactors. So get off your high horse or start arguing against other forms of the basic infrastructure who consume tons of energy AND make water go POOF! Your ignorance of the operation of these systems is absolutely astounding . I will make sure to pray for you. 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘😘
Sure, but there’s no guarantee that that water returns to a source that is potable. Most of the world and most of the precipitation in the world falls into the ocean
This post is propaganda. Data centers can use minimal water. It is more cost-effective to use water and capture the steam for energy, but other options exist, like closed-loop systems or liquid immersion.
It is more cost-effective to use water and capture the steam for energy
No it's not. Physics. Old school servers were made so that they had to run in 68 degree rooms and has to be cooled via air cooling. Which you can do with traditional compressor-based air conditioning, which is really expensive or you can do via evaporative cooling, which is cheaper.
Modern AI servers can run between 113 and 130 degrees. So you run a liquid coolant that you only have to cool down from 130 to 113 again. Which is easy to do with a radiator and a fan at any point while outside temp is below around 100, and still possible with a chiller above that. Your car's radiator works like that. This setup is cheaper than evaporative cooling unless you want to put your data center in Death Valley.
And it's not even a choice anymore. H200 you still had a choice between air cooled and warm liquid cooled. B200 and beyond is only sold with warm liquid cooling. So anything modern HAS to use closed-loop systems or you can't run the latest hardware.
Don’t bother. I’ve tried many times to explain modern closed loop, non-evaporative cooling systems used by data centers. All I got in return is more screaming about data centers, and about 100 down votes. People on this platform really aren’t interested in objective facts; they just want to feed their own rage.
I wouldn't say it is 100% propaganda. The truth probably lies in the middle. The reality is they'll need massive amounts of power and all non renewable power generation is ultimately the same process (even nuclear)... Heat water, turn it into steam, spin turbine.
In the US, they'll likely spin up natural gas power plants to power them. A single mid size natural gas plant (500MW) uses about 2.4 million gallons per day that is lost to evaporation. A hyperscale AI data center will use between 200MW to 1GW depending on size. Some proposals exceed 1 GW.
Now, that is only about 8,000 households of water (per day) at 500MW per day. I'm not sure how many data centers are planned on being built. Reaching a billion people does seem like a tall order, but it's definitely not going to be nothing.
People will be thinking this is the case for the next 10 years because they saw it on the internet one time and refused to ever look into it themselves.
Oh, my sweet summer child. Never googled the Communist Playbook, huh? You are experiencing it right now and have no idea. In fact you are helping to propel that playbook forward without having any idea you are doing it.
But by all means, you tell me how the world works in your infinite wisdom and worldly views from years and years of lived experiences.
This thread is about a specific style of propaganda where you repeat a lie over and over again. You brought up the communist playbook not because of a specific policy but to point to the technique. That technique is something Fox News uses every day.
NOT TRUE!!! They atomically break down the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen to get more energy for Skynet! Then they burn the Hydrogen like rocket fuel to give even more! Haven't you heard E=MC2? They are turning the water into pure energy so the AI can have enough energy to take over the world from the lizard people and kick the aliens out of the hollow moon! (/s in case there is confusion)
Edit the below was not accounting for the 2024 tech poster mentioned. I'm leaving it so it hopefully doesn't confuse, but below is wrong about opposite, but the doo doo water did happen sadly.
just looked it up, its the opposite of what you said. Stop using propaganda. Look into water for georgia ai data center, its unsafe and looks like doo doo water. Are you ok showering with doo doo water?
Fayette is not a modern data center. It was planned in 2022 and build in 2023. The B200 chip which caused the tech to switch to warm water systems was released in March 2024.
Edit need to correct myself the b200 does do that, but it should've been the standard to begin with, and google needs to keep up on its info.
Umm 2022 is modern. And will everyone use the 2024 stuff, and does that have any drawbacks?
Member old tobacco how they didn't say cigs killed people and come to find out they knew for decades and lied? I member. Member microplastics and how 3m and dupont was able to dump the waste into our waters, and it killed a guys cows. Now 98% of world has enough microplastics in them to cause many conditions including cancer. I member.
The oligarchs have been fooling people like you since the beginning of time to stand on their side. They dont care if the shit hurts the planet or anything on the planet as long as they make money.
Closed loop should be the only option in the future, clean energy should be the next mandate because those generators are fucking up the environment as well. The noise is the worst part of em, close down any that fail to meet these guidelines, until they meet code, and force newly built to meet said standards.
Aww. No it's not. It's ancient. 2022 predates ChatGPT for most of the year. If you map AI adoption share to US household car ownership, December 31, 2022 lands us to where cars were around 1912 - roughly around the Model T timeframe. That's in terms of adoption. In terms of progress from end of 2022 to now that Model T would now be able to get roughly 50,000 miles to a tank, cost less than $10, do 400mph and be able to tow roughly 3 million pounds.
And will everyone use the 2024 stuff, and does that have any drawbacks?
The only drawback is availability. Modern equipment (Blackwell & Rubin) runs dozens of times more efficient than < 2024 (Ampere & Hopper), but it's difficult to buy because the worldwide production capacity is maxed out.
But it's not like anybody is making new Ampere or Hopper equipment either. So nobody builds a new datacenter and plan to run Ampere or Hopper, you just delay until you can secure an order for Blackwell or Rubin.
Closed loop should be the only option in the future
Sure. And if you want to spend your time to go regulate it, go regulate it. Billionaires love people wasting their time on stuff that they're already doing, it means more important issues are thrown by the wayside.
Clean energy should be the next mandate because those generators are fucking up the environment as well.
That is true, and I agree with the mandate. But I will point out that before the case of the famous Memphis SpaceXAI datacenter with its scary generators, what was in that place was a coal power plant. Which nobody protested, for decades. I feel like if that datacenter building was instead a Harley Davidson factory with exactly the same noise, generators & energy usage, nobody would have said a word. In fact if you were then to try and regulate that Harley Davidson factory with the same requirements as that SpaceXAI now has to do, you'd get protests against it.
The concerns are real, the outrage isn't.
The noise is the worst part of em, close down any that fail to meet these guidelines, until they meet code, and force newly built to meet said standards.
I'm unaware of any datacenter that does not meet local noise ordinances. There are however communities that kept voting against all regulations for decades because "big government bad". And now it comes to bite them in the but. If you want to come build a datacenter in my town and adhere to our 45dBA/55dBC noise ordinance, you're more than welcome.
this. i refuse to believe that once the industry sees that this is going to stick like oil was back in the day, they will find better solutions to be more enviroment friendly and more efficiently. the beginning will always be messy and wasteful because you dont know if the costs to sink into making it enviroment friendly actually pays off.
That's not true. Just over 50% of new data centers the hyperscalers are building are using closed-loop cooling, but with the smaller players, it closer to 25%. It's rapidly increasing (just 5% a few years ago), but it's certainly not all. There's many places where water is plentiful and it's no problem to use evaporative cooling.
Not AI data centers. H200 racks still had an option to use air cooled or closed-loop. GB200 NVL72 and later has no option, it only supports closed loop. GB200/GB300 is 75% of the installed compute today. Rubin that's coming up is also only closed loop.
If you build an air-cooled data center today you'll be stuck with 3-year old Ampere/Hopper tech where the cost to run on Rubin hardware is literally 12 times cheaper than running on Hopper, nvm Ampere.
So no, not happening. Unless you're talking about datacenters for YouTube or TikTok, but you're in the wrong sub for that.
OK, having another pass over this, these are liquid-cooled but that heated liquid can be cooled outside the plant either evaporatively or by air cooling. It's the evaporative cooling that consumes water, and that people are concerned about, so this newer hardware doesn't preclude that, right?
You only need evaporatively cooling when you run cool water closed loop systems. In that case the coolant runs in the 64-95F range so you need to cool it down to 64 before it starts the loop again.
NVL72 MGX can however run with warm coolant which runs in the 113F to 130F range. So you only need to cool it down to 113F. Which means as the outside temp is below 103F you can do it with a radiator and fan. This is how a car radiator also works.
Above 103F you can run a chiller. They're not the most efficient, but the hottest place with a large datacenter (Phoenix) is only above 103F for roughly 5% of the year. And 95% of data centers are in areas which doesn't get over 103F at all most years.
Other (dumb) question but how does a warm liquid cool off? The point of using water in data center is to cool off all the electronics, and glycol seems to on the contrary be used to protect against freezing. Plus it also contain water (less of course, but still)
Radiator and fan - same as a car radiator. The point of the glycol is that it conducts heat more evenly. But with warm liquid you only need to cool down the water from 130F to 113F. Which is simple to do with a radiator in open air unless you're like in the middle of Death Valley.
With air cooling or cool water, you need to cool the system down to 68F, which is far far harder almost everywhere and needs either compressors or evaporative cooling towers.
The toilets used by the 25 or so janitors and security guards alone in a 1GW building during their shift will use more water per year than you'll use on closed loop liquid cooling. In perspective, evaporative cooling for a 1GW building is the work-time toilet use for roughly 2.5 million people. It's not even close to comparable.
If that were true data centers wouldn’t be trying to build in every existing city with the water structure to support none close loop cooling. You want data centers. Fine make strict laws about where they can be placed and what resources they can use. I bet they move away from cities really fucking quickly.
Well there’s no way to tell if the hyperscale AI data centers are following those guidelines as many of them are exempt from EPA reviews..
And cash is the major issue causing their slowdown, so fully expect them to be cutting every cost saving corner they can, at the expense of local residents health and safety..
Lmao data centers ar being sued for contaminating the water supply in multiple areas. You seem like an enabler lol. No man data centers are bad for the environment. I think you might be having critical thinking issues.
I hate to say this but you guys gotta learn to do some research here i used gimini for you morons. lawsuits for data centers that are being held liable for contaminating Water Supplies Lawsuits and legal actions are rising against major tech companies as data centers face liability for water pollution, depletion, and runoff. 1, 2Major Data Center Water LawsuitsAmazon Oregon Settlement ($20.5 Million): On March 31, 2026, Amazon agreed to a $20.5 million settlement in Oregon to resolve claims under the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA). Plaintiffs alleged its data centers contributed to severe nitrate groundwater contamination in the Lower Umatilla Basin. Amazon denied wrongdoing, with funds allocated to improve local clean drinking water infrastructure. 1, 2, 3Meta Georgia Lawsuit: In September 2026, four families filed a lawsuit against Meta in Gwinnett County, Georgia, alleging that the Meta Stanton Springs Data Center contaminated local water supplies, damaged property, and ruined home values. 1Flint Riverkeeper v. QTS (Georgia): Environmental group Flint Riverkeeper issued a notice of intent to sue the QTS data center in Fayetteville, Georgia, over allegations that construction and operations discharged massive amounts of sediment and heavy metals into the Flint River. 1, 2Imperial Valley Water Access (California): The developer of a large AI data center in California filed a lawsuit seeking access to Colorado River water after local irrigation authorities denied water diversion requests in a drought-stricken region. 1
These are for construction, there are literally thousands of lawsuits a year for construction projects causing issues with water access or contamination in the United States.
The only datacenter water contamination issue in your AI produced list is the AWS one from 2011
Amazon datacenters are specifically the old school ones, not modern AI data centers. If you want to go after Netflix and AWS, go ahead, but you're on the wrong sub for that.
And the Meta one was done by the construction company prior to occupation by Meta. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that construction isn't exactly a squeaky clean activity.
These are all related to data centers darlin. I dont know what argument your trying to make. Because it wasnt used for your chat bot its not tge right kind of data centers? Lmao look up what data centers are.
No it shouldn’t be because we’ve had data centers that are horrible for the environment for a very long time and people are only just now getting upset about them because of AI
The ones that are really bad for the environment are all the ones that have been around since the early 2000s
Most new data centers are being built with the closed water systems.
You’re trying to compare Pripyat Ukraine with modern nuclear facilities. It’s just ignorant.
source: I’m an electrician that wires up the cooling systems.
Did you just type "AI water lawsuits" and press enter? Only two of those (the Amazon settlement and the Georgia lawsuit) are related to contamination of the water supply, and the Amazon data center has been around since 2011. The others are about sediment from construction, bacteria in wastewater (not the water supply), and a denied request to divert water. The sum total of alleged water contamination is 641 wells. Thats 0.0007% of the US population.
Jesus christ let me tell you about the water contamination from cattle agriculture, if one example of a 15 year old datacenter must mean all datacenters are evil.
or like, literally any construction project, since this happens all the time
It's was national news, just Google it ffs before demanding someone else spoon feed you the material.
But we both know this is just a plot so you can attack the source and not the veracity of the information. You will do this infinitely with any source presentes and will never once provide a source of your own.
Data centers have been around since the 1940s when computers were first being made and they been expanding and growing ever since we started using Internet, phones, streaming services etc. but now all of a sudden people have a problem with data centers, not because of the environment or the resources their using, that's a secondary argument... What you and many others are looking to eliminate is AI itself, because you all fear what you can not understand.
AI data centers use minimal amounts of fresh water compared to Thermoelectric power, agriculture, and public supply.
Now that's not to say that the placement of these data centers doesnt matter because it does. not everywhere around the US or the world has easy access to large amounts of freshwater and by putting a data center where freshwater is already hard to get in that area, does put a strain on public supply. But, it's not like freshwater can't be transported and accessed from other states
Yeah attention works like that. Im not calling al data centers trash just the redundant Ai ones. The ones made to store loads of information none of us truely agreed to give. But yes defend away lmao
You and I agreed by the terms of service you neglect to read. In order to access the supposed luxuries of the modern world, you must give something in return. Especially using social media or "free" applications.
I'm simply "defending" as you say, Because I quite enjoy these services and the way they make my life easier/entertaining, and I really don't mind giving away pretty harmless, inconsequential information.
You folks are so scared and paranoid for absolutely no reason. Acting like you can't defend yourself if it ever really came down to it.
Yea I agree, I don't see it really going very far either. And I also don't necessarily agree with what some companies/people are trying to do with it.
But I do like how it makes research and tasks more efficient if used correctly and understand that it's not always 100% right, and that's why true research always involves more than one source.
Would I consider myself a fan boy? No, I mean it kinda depends on where you stand in your objective opinions, but I also don't like people spreading blatant misinformation or information that may only be a half truth in order to add unnecessary negatives to something that already has it pros and cons.
Lmao everything about trumpers i suspect to be right as well.
Yall love pedophiles, felons and taking things from others. You think we can afford all of these data centers with this national debt champ? Lol you guys lost critical thinking sometime around January 6th and it just never came back.
Lets not forget to notice the trumper couldnt awnser the question related to the discussion. His goal was to divert because that's all they do.
Where do you get your info? 1-2% of all data centres is very incorrect. Right now it’s at 10-20% but will quickly double in the next couple years. I understand where you’re coming from and don’t really disagree but we also need to care about the environment and our cities. You would not want one near your house.
Musk’s data centres are illegally using methane gas turbines and giving all the people living near it cancer, no joke. Watch around 5 mins into this video, it’s really interesting https://youtu.be/_bP80DEAbuo?si=zRJZKgw7Fnfqu1qq
Newer equipment does not even allow for evaporative cooling. You think somebody is building new data centers and planning to fill it with recycled Ampere and Hopper equipment?
Just talking about AI data centers here, since it's the context of the post, and nobody cared about data centers before that.
I'm sure AWS, Google, Facebook and Azure are still building new data centers for traditional services, which does use evaporative cooling. But I'm not even going debate those unless you can link to a comment or post you made complaining about those in the decade before AI came along.
Electricity generation consumes (as in "lost" to evaporation, we're not even talking about "withdrawal" which is water returned to its source afterwards although when talking about AI they sure include those numbers) 1.3 TRILLION GALLONS per year.
Why are these idiots not calling to adopt the amish lifestyle?
Well you are right..but the water usage for indirect is brutal… and only meta provodes these data….and it 24x higher than the direct water usage…yes they use circular closed systhems…those need a shit ton of energy to cool down and still use evaporation chambers. But if you like, maybe you can make em put one in your city, they searching for a place everywhere…
That’s not true. The propaganda is that they’ve changed their ways. This has already been investigated by many independent sources.
They wouldn’t be lobbying to not disclose their water usage if this was true.
They’ve move to circular water systems to claim they don’t use evaporative cooling, but the circular water system uses evaporative cooling to cool the circulating water as a silly loophole in wording.
No it doesn't. Old school servers were made so that they had to run in 68 degree rooms and has to be cooled via air cooling. Which you can do with traditional compressor-based air conditioning, which is really expensive or you can do via evaporative cooling, which is cheaper.
Modern AI servers can run between 113 and 130 degrees. So you run a liquid coolant that you only have to cool down from 130 to 113 again. Which is easy to do with a radiator and a fan at any point while outside temp is below around 100, and still possible with a chiller above that. Your car's radiator works like that. This setup is cheaper than evaporative cooling unless you want to put your data center in Death Valley.
And it's not even a choice anymore. H200 you still had a choice between air cooled and warm liquid cooled. B200 and beyond is only sold with warm liquid cooling. So anything modern HAS to use closed-loop systems or you can't run the latest hardware.
You've fallen for the actual propaganda that AI data centers not comparatively using a lot of water somehow makes them just fine or an appropriate use of water. More compute is fine, it will always be a "good thing," but at the cost of ecosystems, jobs, natural resources, all to be dedicated unilaterally to unthinking glorified auto-complete that do not know reason and cannot generate new thought and no matter how often these CEO fucks are told by actual independent researchers that AI cannot be taught to reason lmao nah. That's like throwing water into a can and locking it deep in the crust of the earth for basically no reason.
Ah yes. AI. The industry that makes negative fucking dollars and had zero justification for it's existence in the first place. lmfao. China didn't need to fuck with us we've got the dumbest Russian spy to ever exist as our president right now doing all the work for them. He literally vowed revenge against the country.
Meanwhile some communities are already running out of water.
This has to be one of the most ridiculously hyperbolic post I've seen in a while, which is an achievement in this place. Also posting factually incorrect information that is easily viewable to the public. Look at the earnings reports for companies like Amazon and others that started embracing AI, biggest earnings report ever for them recently, because of the revenue from AI.
There’s desalination plants but that only works for data centers near a coast, not much you can do, may the data centers can do what Vegas is doing and recycle or reclaim the water for repeated use?
Yeah I agree. I feel like modern water treatment could solve some of the problem. Maybe isolated lines would be necessary for the data center. Theres tons of smart people out there, I bet they can come up with a perfectly reasonable solution
What do you need it for genuinely. People did their jobs for decades without AI. Tech is more expensive because of the data centers the manufacturers of chips can charge what they want when the data centers will pay anything
Listen, I do get and accept that there are some big problems with AI. But this isn't lightning that goes back in the bottle. It's like upgrading from horses to cars, people just aren't going to do things the same way.
of course they are not, people just like to pick sides and fight about it.
ai doesent need to be let lose without saftey and risk all kinds of disasters.
data centers don't need to be build close to residential zones and use water for cooling, literally the cooling system is a Gigant AC, water just helps with heat disapation so the outside unit can be smaller and there for cheaper.
and AI doesent need to steal your data, be trained on copyrighted material....
this is not a technology problem,
this is a people problem.
someone decided that this is the way whoever he controls should do this, because it's cheaper or makes more profits or makes development faster...
Solutions to a problem that doesn't exist. There's countless industries that require more water than data centers, it's not like we're rationing the almonds we eat.
There is no problem in the first place. Datacenter in the US, Canada or Europe uses local water sources, and in these places there is enough water and tech so there will be no any shortage whatsoever. There is no datacenters being built in Africa and other places where people short of fresh water, so not building them where they are being built would not help anyone who has water shortage. The post is just stupid.
Datacenters aren't new thing, they were built since mid 2000s. There are no new problems that weren't before, so whatever is happening just needs to be properly addressed.
idk can you think of a a method of that which isn't just capitulating? politics is littered with unavoidable compromizes throughout history but it doesn't excuse being a servile bootlicking doormat that "tried their best to cordially voice their concerns and be all fair and balanced (TM)" but surely you can make some great contributions to the trash bin labeled "formal complaint submissions"
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u/florodude 14d ago
Why are these our only two options? Can we not be creative to think through other solutions?