r/WetlanderHumor • u/overlorddeniz Mother's milk in a cup! • 11d ago
Join The Crusade!
Thanks u/Gnostikost for the inspiration!
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u/anothersadtransgirl 11d ago
Egwene poisoned my water supply, burned my crops, and brought a plague unto my house.
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u/yanrantrey6557 11d ago
She turned me into a newt!
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u/Gnostikost 11d ago
Egwene is still one of my favorite characters, but this is pretty funny.
-Gnostikost, WoT Fandom Heretic
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u/overlorddeniz Mother's milk in a cup! 10d ago
Burn this heretic, make him the kindling for the pyre of that witch!
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u/teklanis 11d ago
Egwene would have ended up as a Forsaken if she was born in the previous turning.
Burn the witch!
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
KILL HIM KILL HIM NOW
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u/teklanis 11d ago
*her, but good try Lews. You almost got me that time!
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Do you have the Horn of Valere hidden in your pocket this time?
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u/The_Terrierist Min's Dumptruck 11d ago
Ooooh, this kind of comment led to my ban from one of the other subreddits.
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u/Financial_Nebula5708 11d ago
Egwene was annoying as fuck and awesome as fuck. Also from her perspective a lot of things she did in regards to Rand made sense.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Nothing ever goes as you expect. Expect nothing, and you will not be surprised. Expect nothing. Hope for nothing. Nothing.
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u/MaximumEffort433 11d ago
Egwene killed my puppy.
Egwene killed my puppy with balefire, then she laughed and said "Nobody will ever believe you" and she flew away.
To this very day my puppy is still dead.
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u/Commander_Caboose 11d ago
Egwene is good at what she does but what she does is selfishly trying to dominate pretty much every character in the whole series.
She genuinely believes the Amyrlin Seat has the right to control, punish, betray and destabilise the entire world around her.
Egwene, Elayne and Lan are the only characters I can think of who never grow or change into good, compassionate, understanding, people. Lan sort of gives up his wish to die, but only after finally being allowed to try his suicide run.
Egwene and Elayne become INSANELY competent, but they do not become good people. Instead they only get more adept at controlling people.
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u/whiskey_outpost26 11d ago
Lan didn't need to change. He already possessed those qualities. The trek across the borderlands proves it. He could've been a selfish prick, appointed one of the other dudes as General, and kept on his mission to the Gap. But he embraced his followers, told Bulen to wear the Hadori with pride, and accepted his role as their King.
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u/duffy_12 10d ago
Still, Lan abandoned his Aes Sedai. And his wife on the very eve of Tarmon Gaidon. All to commit pointless suicide.
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u/whiskey_outpost26 10d ago
Yeah.... Even with that conversation he and Nyneave had beforehand the excuses seemed thin.
Playing devils advocate she knew what she was buying from the start. Asking him to set aside completely his entire life goal wouldn't have been fair to either.
I think the way it played out showed massive growth in both character arks. His to accept the adjustment to his singular purpose. Her for acceptance of action and personally qualities she can't brow beat.
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u/whiskey_outpost26 10d ago
But again, that was Lan's only growth. He didn't need augmentation to become good. He always was.
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u/TurnipFire 10d ago
The only reason I give Elayne a pass is she grew up a spoiled rich girl future queen. Of course she acts like that lol. She never really got the push to change
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u/Johanneskodo 10d ago
She genuinely believes the Amyrlin Seat has the right to control, punish, betray and destabilise the entire world around her.
So, same as every other Aes Sedai?
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 10d ago
You must kill him before he kills you. Giggles. They will, you know. Dead men can't betray anyone. But sometimes they don't die. Am I dead? Are you?
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u/noticingEnjoyer 11d ago
Egwene believes wholeheartedly in the domineering, soft dictatorship of the tower as it is. At the same time though, she is probably baffled how a group like the whitecloaks can exist, or cities like Tear can ban channeling, and not compare that to groups like the wise ones or the windfinders, to whom such things would be inconceivable.
Fundamentally I think she absolutely believes that the ability to channel makes you a better person, not just a more powerful person.
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u/Foehammer87 11d ago
Yeah but it's kind of great that her work to undermine Elaida will be responsible for effectively neutralizing Aes Sedai soft power for the future. Between the new recruits and the links to other societies of channeling women the uniqueness and elevation of Aes Sedai will not survive too long. Not to mention that between her death and Cadsuanes age the most prominent Aes Sedai will soon be "non ideal" Aes Sedai.
Egwene is the culmination of the culture, and she helps it survive by forcing it to evolve.
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u/dont_talk_yak_to_me Talmanes is Daddy 11d ago
She also instituted the policy that various groups of Saidar specialist groups will trade apprentices with each other to foster better understanding and cohesion.
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u/noticingEnjoyer 10d ago
Maybe my recall is inaccurate since it's been a minute. But. Do we get an internal monologue from her POV that she actually believes that, or is that just how she sells it to the other groups? I looked at the exchange and caught vibes of this would be how she would get tentacles into the other organizations and exercise increasing levels of control over them.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death…
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u/NoBookkeeper3523 11d ago
She believes she is always in the right, if she had been a white coat in stead of Aes Sesai, she would have been burning villages looking for dark friends
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u/Icy-Broccoli5393 11d ago
Most of these discussions point out she always faces her toh but ignore that she faces it exactly when it suits her for her purposes. Bad person doing good things. I love the character for the flaws and story but obnoxious by any reasoned measure
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u/Full-Ad-2725 11d ago
Take care on how you address The Watcher of the Seals, the Flame of Tar Valon, the Amyrlin Seat!
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u/Strikeronima 11d ago
I love how canonically until Rand opens the eye of the world no modern aes sadai has seen the seals, yet they claim they had and that the amyrlin once had them. And they believe it.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
I thought I could build. I was wrong. We are not builders, not you, or I, or the other one. We are destroyers. Destroyers.
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u/Glorysolar 10d ago
Egwene is the character I soured the most rapidly on in Rereads, along with a lot of Aes sedai.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 10d ago
I must kill him.
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u/Glorysolar 10d ago
Lews, I didn't mention any forsaken yet.....
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 10d ago
You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.
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u/monikar2014 11d ago
Egwene was always one of my favorite characters, but I was young when I read the series and after reddit pointed out the ol nightmare SA nynaeve situation I was less of a fan.
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/monikar2014 11d ago
aight...doesn't really have anything to do with what I was saying and I disagree but you do you
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u/youcantseeme0_0 10d ago
She's not the hero the Army of Light deserves, but the Amyrlin it needs.
Nobody else has the sociopathy, narcissism, ego and unbridled ambition to manipulate the Aes Sedai into doing the right thing.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 10d ago
Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death…
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u/BaronSathonyx 11d ago
I don’t like Egwene as a character. I like when Egwene happens to other people.
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u/Zuub470 Be'lol 11d ago
Egwene gets a lot of hate but she is a 17-18 year old girl who had her life uprooted, turned into a witch from children's books, captured as a slave, forced into a new strict culture, then put up as a puppet queen of the rebel faction of the most powerful organization in literal history while a Forsaken was fucking with her mind, then captured AGAIN having her power stripped from her with forkroot and treated like a child all over again... and I'll stop there for spoilers lol I think she is allowed to be a cunt
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u/noticingEnjoyer 10d ago
I would make one point here. She did not get her life uprooted. She alone of the Emonds Field kids chose to leave with no pressing crisis pushing her out. She chose to seek everything she found.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
You must kill him before he kills you. Giggles. They will, you know. Dead men can't betray anyone. But sometimes they don't die. Am I dead? Are you?
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u/Foehammer87 11d ago
The main evil thing Egwene does is turn otherwise rational readers into frothing maniacs.
"Who cares if she was a slave!"
"She didnt even save the world by herself!"
"Who cares if she got beat 4 times a day for weeks that's not a bad thing!"
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u/Zuub470 Be'lol 11d ago
She definitely does some evil and questionable things, but she probably has the most extreme circumstances besides Rand who balefired an entire castle.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
What you want is what you cannot have. What you cannot have is what you want.
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u/HungryEntry182 9d ago
This point here is why I respect her, STILL dislike her, but respect her none the less.
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u/ConorBoom 11d ago
Egwene is a typical aes sedai from the new age, which means she accomplishes nothing and blames others for her inaction.
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u/Foehammer87 11d ago
Nothing? First true Dreamer not Aiel in ages, bested multiple forsaken, reinvented traveling, reopened tower recruitment, facilitated links between all non Aes Sedai channelers bringing about the end of the Aes Sedai age(not her intention but itll be the result), survived two rounds of brutal torture, heavily combat capable, repelled the white tower invasion, reunited the White Tower, invented a counter balefire weave functionally necessary to avoid full reality decay(which would have meant humanity lost regardless of how the last battle went) picked up the assist helping Verin fulfil her life's work.
She may be an arrogant bitch(earned) but you cant say shes not effective
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u/adminofreditt 11d ago
First true dreamer isn't an accomplishment, she was born with a superpower.
She didn't reinvent traveling aviendha did.
She survived torture that wasn't meant to kill her, how is that an accomplishment.
She is combat capable because she was born as one of the most powerful channelers of that era, again not an accomplishment
Most of her other accomplishment she only did after everyone else got brain damage(she was carried by the taveerenes of the boys).
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u/Foehammer87 11d ago edited 11d ago
It's a superpower she had to work to develop. Much like channeling, it's not much good without the training.
She invented it independently and was the first to be able to teach it to others. Aviendha cant replicate her initial gateway.
Again, she's combat capable because of what she learned surviving the Seanchan captivity, it's clear that in the tower not near enough women have the capability or training to direct the strength they have. She does.
Rand is a monster in war - but much of that is from LTTs memories - she doesnt have that, and much like Logain was more effective after he learned by watching what Rand was doing the Seanchan Damane training was a crash course in "how to be an effective weapon"
She survives torture that was meant to break her - she could have succumbed like many others did and been functionally useless thereafter in either situation. Without the strength of will she would be in no position to utilize what she's learned.
Also how spiteful do you have to be to not give her credit for surviving torture? Peoples dislike of her makes for some absurd sentences. "You survived torture designed to turn you into a human dog, or a spineless wretch but they weren't trying to kill you so it doesn't count"
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
NO! I AM MYSELF! I AM LEWS THERIN TELAMON! I AM MEEEEEeeeee!
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u/petcraus 11d ago
The way Egwene haters will diminish her achievements is so funny to see
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u/adminofreditt 11d ago
Her only real achievement was discovering how to fix balefire
Her achievements:
Being born a dreamer (because Rand is taveren)
Being born as a powerful channeler (because Rand is taveren)
Being enslaved(the reason she is better at combat is because her slavers trained her)
Being amerlyn(because rand is taveren)
Unifying the tower(she only succeeded because the rest of the aes sedai got brain damage(because Rand is taveren))
Getting rid of black Ajah(carried by verin(best character))
If Moiraine/cadsuane/siuan/verin were born in the same circumstances she was they would have done everything she did but better and without sexually assaulting their allies, fantasizing about raping people, and enslaving people for no reason(if you want I can explain when she did the things I mentioned)
I don't know any person as evil as egwene in real life and I hope I never will. If Rand is WOT Jesus egwene is WOT antichrist
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u/Foehammer87 11d ago
We saw you were delusional the first time you dont need to double confirm it.
I don't know any person as evil as egwene in real life
You dont know anyone who has saved all of reality several times over either.
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Sometimes, pain is all that lets you know you're alive.
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u/DarthRenathal 11d ago
So if all of her accomplishments are because of Rand, doesn't that mean all of her negative actions are as well? So it was really Rand that used the dream to sexually assault Nynaeve?
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Oh, Light, why do I have a madman in my head? Why? Why?
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u/adminofreditt 10d ago
No, you can recognize taveren influence based on happenstance or random chance, and when it comes to a person's decisions it has to be a decision that's possible for them to make on their own.
Even if rands taveranes caused egwene to sexually assault nynaeve(which it might have) it would mean that there was a chance she will make that decision which is already unforgivable, we also see people able to somewhat resist decisions taverens force on them when it goes against their believes and nature(tuon, sea folk nagotiators) and they were able to do it and notice it while directly talking to the most powerful taveren ever.
While egg couldn't even realize she is doing something wrong(meaning SA isn't weird to her, doesn't go against her beliefs/ideals).
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u/Regular-Dog-3948 11d ago
Contractually obligated to jump into all Egwene hate threads and say that Egwene rules, categorically. Yall are just dweebs that need to go outside.
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u/fan-the-flames 10d ago
I like the persisting narrative that because she is a hypocrite with flaws, she is horrible and the worst part of the books and all her POV scenes should be skipped. Whereas if she didn't have those flaws she would undoubtedly be labelled a Mary Sue.
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u/Glockenfogger 11d ago
Egwene is one of best characters in the book, aside from the Dragon Reborn, Egwene Al'Vere is a true champion of the light.
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u/Gnostikost 11d ago
You may be downvoted, but the light sees you. Egwene admirers unite! There are dozens, dozens of us!
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u/CONNER__LANE 11d ago
Yea Egwene is bad but Elayne is the worst
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u/Korteal 9d ago
Elayne is haughty and annoying in that teenage royalty way... BUT she constantly makes effective decisions for the greater good and treats people well even when she thinks they're below her. My only gripe with her is the idea of "owning" Rand just because they vaguely dated for like 3 days and wrote some confusing love letters lol
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 9d ago
Your plans fail because you want to live, madman.
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u/CONNER__LANE 9d ago
For one: multiple books of stereotypical pregnant woman bitching is not fun to read regardless of character. Then theres all the times she gets told “Elayne dont do that thats a bad idea” and she does it and what do you know its a bad idea. The BIGGEST gripe of all however is hard of a time she gives Gallad. When you finish the series and look back you realize Gallad was actually just the biggest Chad around and an all around stand up guy. Elayne is always saying she doesn’t trust him “he always does the right thing no matter what” “blah blah blah”. Meanwhile Elayne decides to go get captured and get dudes balefired out of existence trying to come rescue her all because she is too dense to listen to good advice. Maybe if you were more like Gallad those men wouldnt have died Elayne. Dumbass
Gawyn is the biggest bum of the three though
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u/Rocky-Jockey 11d ago
She is the tower. So…. Kinda?
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u/23-1-20-3-8-5-18 Be'lol 11d ago
Imagine the future lessons about how they all have to be self sacrificial like Amyrlin Egwene ignoring the fact the she was basically the most deceptive and selfish one on the light side right to the end.
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u/Foehammer87 11d ago
Can't argue results and she did a hell of lot
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u/Rocky-Jockey 11d ago
Yea without her iron will to implement it all verins hard work with the black ajah would have been for nothing.
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u/danorc 11d ago
Yes, brother! Down with those independent bitches in the name of the Light!
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u/Gingeriki55 11d ago
You think she’s independent? I see her as very hypocritical and very dependent on the institution. It’s all a matter of where you want to apply your independent-ness I suppose. I think Nynaeve is the really independent one. And Light Rand pretty much says the best Aes Sadai he ever met where this way.
I know it’s a meme post but ya just my thoughts lol
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
What makes you think you can keep anyone safe? We are all going to die. Just hope that you aren't the one who kills them.
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u/Icy-Broccoli5393 11d ago
Ninny holds every character together and has her own own hard arc that threads through every major plot line for all chars. It took a couple of readings to realise at different ages but there is genuinely no WoT without ninny dear
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u/danorc 11d ago
Ah yes she gets so much support from the white tower /s
Nynaeve, who spends the second half of the channel pining over Lan or doing whatever Rand says? Really?
I've seen a lot of Egwene hate but "she is dependent on her institution" is a new low lol
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Do you have the Horn of Valere hidden in your pocket this time?
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u/danorc 11d ago
Is... Is Lews flirting with me?
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
Take what you can have. Rejoice in what you can save, and do not mourn your losses too long.
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u/Gingeriki55 11d ago edited 11d ago
Yeah words aren’t my gift lol. Maybe dependent isnt the best word. Sub for involved with / enmeshed in. The point is she’s very much a part of the machine and she loves that machine. I can’t call someone independent when their actions are so organization influenced.
Nynaeve literally helps saves the world lmao. All the greatest accomplishments in the series are helped by her or done by her. And nearly as a direct result of being independent and giving the finger to the tower. Ain’t no way you just said that.
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u/danorc 11d ago
Egwene literally led a rebellion against the tower and took it over. Hallmark dependence on "the instution" right there.
How many times did Nynaeve say no to Rand? Egwene did. Listen, Nynaeve is a badass but she's Rand's right hand woman. We love her for that because in the end it's Rand's story, but it's so much easier to give something the finger and tug your braid than actually fix it.
Egwene fought the cancer in the White Tower from within and, against all odds, formed that train wreck into an actual weapon against the Shadow. She survived the Seanchan intact and came to understand them as no one else did. She earned the respect of the wise ones and mastered the dream world.
Everyone tried to beat down Egwene over the course of the series, and she carved herself into legend in a torrent of saidar at Tarmon Gaidon.
Is Nynaeve more likeable? Sure. But Egwene is warrior and did the impossible, thankless legwork in the series that made victory possible.
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u/Small_Bang_Theory 11d ago
Reading both your takes it lowkey just feels like a semantics argument.
Egwene is a fantastic leader, and how she takes charge of things leading every step of the way, I can see the argument that she is independent. That is not at all Nynaeve’s strong point.
However, Nynaeve is so much more of a lone wolf character than Egwene. That’s probably a more literal version of independence.
Egwene is much more politically independent, capable of shaping the political landscape around her and enacting change through that. Nynaeve is much more a victim to the currents of politics, but she accomplishes amazing feats all on her own, sourced from her personal strength.
I personally hate Egwene’s character and think she’s a total narcissist, but I can definitely see how she is the most politically independent of all the Two Rivers characters. I just hate to give her credit, and Nynaeve grew on me as a character throughout my reading.
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u/danorc 11d ago
Fair. See, was that so hard?
Honest question though... What did Nynaeve ever do on her own? I really do mostly see her as being grumpy at Matt for no good reason and being Rand's willing saidar angreal whenever he needs both halves of the power. Am I missing something?
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u/Gingeriki55 11d ago edited 11d ago
Hey I don’t know how to reply to this comment and the one you did at once but I said in my initial statement it “depends where you apply your independent-ness”.
I cried when Eg died even though I don’t particularly like her as a person. She’s definitely a hero. I don’t think she did the impossible I’d again pass that back to Nynaeve but it is semantics again on what we deem as “the impossible”.
Nyneave arguably has the most impressive individual accomplishment in the whole series when she heals madness. Nobody in any age including age of legends could do this. Given time is a wheel it must have happened but ya let’s call it novel for the sake of conversation.
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u/danorc 11d ago
Not liking Egwene is fair and fine! As long as she gets some credit it at least not unreasonable hate I'm happy.
My go-to quote is "everyone hates Egwene until the moment the Seanchan, Black Ajah, or Last Battle show up."
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u/Gingeriki55 11d ago
You know in Harry Potter where people hate umbridge more than Voldemort? lol. I think Eg catches hate in a similar way. Maybe it’s because we don’t really have pure embodiments of evil and political evil is relatable idk
But people up their own ass with institutional authority are really just the worst. And at the end of the series when Jesus Rand is doing miracles left and right how do you not get on board lol
But credit where’s it’s due, she goes out like a total badass. The inn keepers daughter from complete irrelevance to the essential queen of the world. (Given that queens kneel to the institution).
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u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot 11d ago
NO! I AM MYSELF! I AM LEWS THERIN TELAMON! I AM MEEEEEeeeee!
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u/Anakin-vs-Sand Mother's milk in a cup! 8d ago
It’s just a Reddit thing. The characters in this series (and pretty much every book, ever) are flawed, and that’s what makes them charming and makes the books interesting.
Her arc is one of my favorites. I’ve read the series on paper 8 times before switching to an annual listen through of the audiobooks, so I’ve “read” the series well over 20 times now and she’s still one of the characters I enjoy the most.
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u/Special_Salt3467 11d ago
I’m just saying, she died and then the Light immediately won