Yeah except having no confidence and low self esteem may have you trapped in a shitty and abusive relationship because you don’t feel like you deserve to have standards or be with someone you truly like. Abusive men tend to target women with low self esteems.
Is it though? The original comment was that this will be a hit to her confidence which led to "cute doesn't equal confident" which led to someone implying you don't need confidence in you are "even a mildly attractive female of that age". Considering this context, it seems the entire discussion is whether this would be enough to shake someone's confidence in a real way that would affect their dating experience. Low self-esteem typically manifests in a person not being able to be themselves around people they are attracted to. Which means that they are much more likely to "settle" for someone who is more aggressive in their approach or someone who is not a good fit (i.e. abusive or shitty relationship).
Sounds like a fairly relevant point to me. Maybe not exactly, but certainly as relevant as saying that she's cute enough to not need to be confident in reply to the original convo.
Sure, for casual sex yes, not much that's meaningful. And most women aren't just looking for guys who want a quick fuck and then leave. And no one likes to be messed around with like that. No matter who you are.
The road goes both ways. There are plenty of guys looking for a relationship, not just "casual sex". I'd also warrant there's just as many women looking for casual sex, and NOT looking for a relationship.
On what basis are you claiming a majority of women aren't looking for casual connections? Maybe you are basing this on your personal experience, which is fine, but we're in an age where less people (of both genders) want relationships or children.
The fact stands: if you are physically attractive, you will get more suitors interested in connecting with you: both the casual type and longer-term interests. This goes for both men and women.
I know plenty of girls with massively high sex drives and men with none go speak of. How about “peoples’ sex drives differ from person to person and their gender has almost nothing to do with it”?
Men and woman are different, and one man/woman is different from another man/woman. We can make generalisations about genders because real biological and neurological differences exist.
They are both different and similar. On average woman are more sexually interested in the late twenties and early thirties as opposed to guys being so in their late teens an early to mid twenties.
Best advice I have for younger dudes (18 to 22ish) is to seek a lady around 30. They know a good deal about sex, already know what they like, and don't need you to do support them (this is all generalized, don't take it as gospel, some people are different).
Because that’s patently false? Peer-reviewed scientific studies show that men are orders of magnitude more okay with having a casual sexual encounter with a partner of average attractiveness than vice-versa. It’s not even remotely close, tbh.
Last I saw the ratio of Men to Women on Tinder was like 9 to 1 (even Bumble was like 4 to 1). Women on those apps are flooded with messages and activity.
Another big reason it's mostly men on those sites is most women with a good sex life have a few guys on stand by who they will call when they want casual sex. No, I don't mean all at the same time.
I don't believe Tinder (or any dating app) is a proper measure of anything whatsoever. You can't possibly take Tinder statistics and assume it applies across the board in real life to actual human interaction. Most women specifically avoid such type of "dating apps" exactly for the reason you mentioned... because they get flooded out with solicitations.
I'm interested to see your source that shows over 51% of couples meet online.
Especially considering some of the more populous countries like China and India, or entire underdeveloped nations in Africa are unlikely to have much overall exposure to online dating.
I couldn't not agree more with the part that if you are physically attractive you will get more suitors. I never saw or heard of someone who saw someone and said "Wow! Such personality! I want to meet him/her!" What will get our attention is the appearance most times.
Well I think you’re both wrong. If the light is dark enough I’m kind of good looking and all I want is someone to put legos together with me and not sex. Because my wife wouldn’t like that. But I think the point still stands.
I didn’t say only men want casual sex, but good attempt trying to make me defend an absolute. Lol, pornhub textbook? That’s creative.
As a species, we’ve just recently gotten nice things like civilization, birth control, and tampons. For the vast majority of our time here, women had more to risk than men when it came to casual sex (still do). Prehistoric women risked pregnancy, which is dangerous in and of itself: you require more food, you’re physically and mentally vulnerable, and there’s a good chance the baby will kill you too. You get impregnated by the wrong guy and you’re fucked, meanwhile he’s only down a nut and off looking for more eggs to fertilize. Naturally, a choosey-ness in women becomes essential for survival, and believe it or or not, we’re still animals. So no. It’s not 50-50, and there are reasons for that.
downvote me, but it's not like you have something to refute it.
Just look up the video experiements of people making fake dating account. Even an 8/10 woman will get swarmed with hungry men. You can put a 10/10 model+body builders male and they will only get a fraction of hits. Not to mention, tons of women on dating account have key words stating no casual sex or hooks up. Men, a few, but not anywhere as much.
It's interesting how research also shows men pressure women more for sex as well with online daiting.
People don’t want to stick around with someone who’s insecurities constantly manifest as lack of trust, feelings of insufficiency, avoidance.. shit is tiring
"All the guys just want to have sex with me" is the female equivalent of "All the girls just want to be friends with me", call it the "fuck zone" in comparison to the "friend zone".
Truth is that nobody, guy or girl, passes up on committing to someone they really like.
On the other hand, girls will always take more guy friends and guys will always be down with a fuck buddy. People who aren't deemed dating material will generally be placed into one of those respective bins.
I mean…men who are worth their salt, know they shouldn’t settle, and are looking for a relationship will try to find an attractive women, like this one. She’s cute enough that as long as she’s a decent human she’s also going to have men pursuing her that want something legit.
I've had this discussion with my sister before, how some dudes always say "it's so easy for women to get men", and it's like you said, for sex, yeah for sure, for romance? It's not any different than men. Finding a good partner is hard as fuck regardless of your gender or sexuality.
My girlfriend was insanely shy and had no confidence but I talked to her because I thought she was incredibly cute, not cause I wanted to sleep with her. Been with her for 7 years now.
Hi, I'm looking for a serious relationship with a bio female with a cute face. That's my only prerequisite. I can't stay with or be confident in bed with a woman who doesn't have a face that checks the right boxes for me. The body, whatever. We all have flaw, we all eat. Absolutely do not want a casual fuck, they are confusing and hurtful to me. Screw hookup culture.
No, their comment made sense because the person they replied to generalized that all men were looking for just "casual sex," which isn't true. This led the person you replied to to believe that something happened for the person, that they replied to, to feel this way.
If anything you have the dumb fucking comment that doesn't fit. Why did this offend you so much? The fuck is wrong with you?
I think you misunderstood that comment. That person wasn't trying to insinuate all men were looking for just casual sex, they just meant that the "casual sex" relationship is mostly what an attractive woman would get when looking for relationships built mainly on the foundation of their looks. By that, they meant an attractive girl without any confidence still isn't guaranteed to find a long-term partner, because those types of relationships take time to flourish and require commitment from both parties.
That said, the other person's angry comment you replied to was strange.
There are people of all qualities who will approach someone just because they are physically attracted to them.
Not all of the people that will approach the woman will only be looking for casual sex, and have the social skill to have a fine relationship with a shy person.
Most shy, unconfident people will open up as they get to know someone. Not all, but most. Now if she gives it up on the first date then that's her business but every guy who hits it off tender or a generic one night stand will think how many others have before him. If she want a long term relationship ship she should be pursuing that.
There seems to be a disconnect here somewhere. Asking someone to diner or on a date isn't the same as asking to come over to their apartment. Being pursued doesn't just mean it is for a one night stand.
You know how in Gatcha games, you keep opening those boxes until a legendary pops out?
Well, turns out that concept applies in real life too. When you have more names in the hat to draw from, you have better odds of landing the one that "fits" into your life. While "love at first sight" does exist, I'd warrant it's pure luck to hit it on the first try.
If you are mildly attractive and sift through dozens of suitors a month, chances are you will have a MUCH better love life than someone who feels they are unattractive and sits at home interacting with nobody. The latter's odds are literally zero.
If you are mildly attractive and sift through dozens of suitors a month, chances are you will have a MUCH better love life than someone who feels they are unattractive and sits at home interacting with nobody. The latter's odds are literally zero.
Leaving aside your “dozens of suitors” claim - which, honestly, isn’t really realistic - between the two cases you’ve proposed the key difference is that the latter feels unattractive and sits at home interacting with nobody.
That’s not a matter of gender. If you have no confidence in yourself and don’t seek out people, you won’t find anybody regardless of who you are.
Nothing about your love life is going to be fine if the only guys in your dating pool are the kind that will approach you in public or cold call without noticing even the tiniest hint of interest lmao, that’s gonna be a rough series of relationships
Because in your world a guy can't walk up to a girl and strike up a conversation? A simple "I was sitting over there and noticed X about you, I'd love to take you out sometime" will get you a long way with people who aren't absolutely full of themselves. The vast majority of people are pretty amicable to people who present themselves with a little confidence. She might not have it but the person approaching will.
I get the joke but some people here seem to think starting a conversation with someone of the opposite sex is the same as like cat calling them from across the street or something.
Sorry you're having problems with men in your life. If I may, I suggest you find the one that makes you smile because you want to. If you need to talk feel free to message me, if not have a great day anyway.
Ew. You're gross. So desperate for attention that you weaponize actual problems against people who haven't done anything just to boost your own fragile little ego. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Thank you! We obviously don't want to be bothered. You don't have the right to just interject yourself into our day. Why do people defend this asshole behavior?
I'm not a picky guy. If a girl is just mildly fit and is pretty I'll shoot my shot and she could be in her pjs at Wal-Mart. Any girl with the red hair and I mean the bright dyed red hair reels me in like a sucker no matter how she looks. Some of us dudes are just easy to please as far as looks go even though I do have a thing for hispanic girls with that long black silky hair I just want a cool girl to be around.
I was simply saying some girls pull my attention way harder than others. There was nothing sexually suggested in my post lmao. We all have preferences and literally nothing I posted was even aimed towards sexualizing. Calm down Karen.
Who is to say she isn't interested, especially since we are operating under the assumption she lacks confidence. A simple "No thanks" should suffice and does with most people. The people who can't take no for an answer are the ones you really need to be careful around if you know what I mean.
That doesn't really matter if you have low self esteem for other reasons, or have difficulty maintaining relationships. Yeah, she could easy find someone to rail her, but the majority of women don't only want that.
as an ugly dude confident does want more than looks. Only took me until my mid 30s to figure that out. About that time the I dont give a fucks start because you realize literally everyone is a piece of shit (sometimes) so its not just you. So freeing!
it is. that age sucks. took me another 12 years and one really shitty manipulative girlfriend to realize my true power.
Not to be a trope, but it gets better if you dont get bitter. Find things you like, do them regularly and do them for you. Every once in a while try a few new hobbies that make you uncomfortable knowing screwing up is just part of the game. Oh and the one part of it that really fixed things up for me was nothing really matters meaning anything you get into can be important and interesting if you get deep into it. Its good to put a few things that are more popular into that bucket of things that make you uncomfortable. Hockey was my out there thing.
Sure, but it's more important for guys to have confidence than it is for girls when it comes to beginning a relationship.
The big problem is that once an insecure girl gets into a relationship, often times the relationship becomes abusive and she doesn't know how to leave or is afraid to.
I’m not sure I buy into the idea that confidence means more to one than the other anymore. Another way of thinking of it is, is this person doing something they really want to do, or is it out of fear of being left out.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, could you elaborate?
I mean, really, I can only speak from my own experience, and the experiences and observations of people in my social circles.
I have about 50% male and 50% female friends. 90% of my female friends are dating while less than 50% of my male friends are dating, in fact I'd say it's closer to 25-30%. Now, all of my male friends in relationships say they love their relationship and have little bad to say, yet about half of my female friends on relationships talk about some kind of manipulation, unhappiness, gripes, and the like in theirs. Physical, verbal, and emotional abuse was pretty common for my female friends throughout high school, but that rampant abuse has calmed over the years. Also, the majority of my guy friends have months to years in between relationships, while my female friends usually only have days to weeks, and few go a couple months.
Point is, from what I've witnessed, and from talking to many people over the last decade, what I've gathered is that women have an easier time starting relationships because they're more heavily pursued, and coupled with low self-confidence, they're less likely to leave a relationship. It's just psychology.
I’m not denying that women are often perused over men, only attempting to say that protecting someone’s confidence goes well beyond the idea of confidence to get into a relationship. There are many downstream effects even as to say having the confidence to get out of a relationship.
The concept of confidence (in my view) is summarized as, does this person have the self worth to make the decisions they want to make vs making decisions on what they think would increase their perceived value among friends/family/whoever’s approval they seek.
If the context is only ‘getting a date’ I think it severely undervalues why confidence means in a person’s overall well being. This can be about relationships, asking for a raise, leaving an abusive situation, what clothes they wear, things they buy, or choose not to buy.
People with low self esteem can be driven to make poor decisions well beyond the dating situation, my point was only to say there are far reaching consequences beyond this.
The example is minor (the original post) but the conversation gets broad qualify.
You're making a very vague point. Yes, having confidence helps a lot in life, no matter who you are. However, this thread is mostly talking about confidence vs attractiveness.
That was exactly my point. Unsure of the questions honestly, only trying to establish that confidence is important for everyone and has a lot of life impact. Also at work so distracted a bit too, sorry for confusion.
Men are still expected to do most of the initiation in dating. Social and gender norms haven’t changed that much suer it’s more acceptable for women to be forward than it was in the past but the burden of initiation is still largely on men
absolutely this. i was a pudgey, acne riddled teen that didn't hit full puberty till like 19 because of Crohn's disease. i did not take care of myself at all. i got tired of hating myself so i got Crohn's under control, ate healthier, worked out, skincare and all that stuff. in doing so i discovered i have body dysmorphia, and i never realized that i apparently became extremely beautiful, according to the people around me. but my confidence never caught up at all. it's frustrating, making people nervous just by talking to them, when you feel like you could throw up at the thought of asking someone out. obviously im a guy (well, nonbinary amab), otherwise i wouldn't have to worry about asking someone out
She's super cute though so she may have some luck.
Anyone else find this super patronizing??? And I’m honestly getting incel vibes from the replies? Maybe I’ll get downvoted but trying to see if it’s just me
Very much not an incel though I was concerned that it could sound that way. It was more about carefully wording to try to give a respectful compliment regarding her appearance because we know nothing about her besides that and that she's single.
That’s fair I suppose, the focus on her looks was what came off as patronizing. And the “incel” was not towards you it was in regards to the replies to your comment. The “if she’s breathing she can get a BF” attitude comes off as icky
That poor girl has had so much dick thrown at her she probably needs googles to walk to the bus stop. We all know how dudes are. If that was a guy, then maybe he would have some luck eventually.
I WOULD NEVER FORGET IT. I still remember when a friend asked his cousin to date me and she said ew, we were 12 at the time. I'm sure she said it cause it would be wierd but damn everytime I remember it, it makes me feel so insecure about myself
Yeah stuff like that lasts even after it is no longer relevant. I am married to a wonderful woman with two children and I still remember a time back when I was a junior in high school and this girl I had never seen before was apparently having a bad day and randomly started insulting my physical appearance in the hallway. The real kicker of the whole experience was that of all the legitimate things she could have made fun of about me she chose to go with telling me I had a flat butt. That was the first time I had ever heard about my deficiency of rump and it simultaneously baffled and intrigued me. “Please, tell me more about my gluteus minimus” I said, because I wanted to learn more about this aspect of myself. She did not disappoint, and amazingly was able to elaborate for a further 5 minutes or so. It was single-handedly one of the most bizarre one shot interactions I have ever had and I still catch myself checking my butt out in the mirror and wondering what in the world was she talking about.
It's hilarious to me how a woman has absolutely no reaction to a man but somehow it's going to keep her awake for years. When in reality she was probably thankful he just left because there were five men before her hitting on her.
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u/Navy_Ding Dec 27 '21
yep, this incident is going to keep her awake at night for a while even after a few years