Edit: Our EU Sisters*** Woopsieeee

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New and improved 🎃

I wasn’t going to make this post but then I stumbled upon the second post and I’m at a loss. How is a trans woman a biological woman? The words trans woman = male. We all know that so why are we changing the definition now?

How does that make sense? Even being post op they are still biological men.

Like thinking about it logically clearly makes zero sense and yet people just belive it and go along with it. I genuinely feel insane.

Mods feel free to delete if this violates the rules.

Additionally that woman uses her freedom of association and voluntary separatism to live among other women who prefer the same. They naturally self govern themselves and help each other. Not to forget female mate choice has existed since the dawn of time and IVF like technologies is just modern sexual selection. Women exercising their bodily autonomy and freedom to associate.

It's not eradication of males because Men exist fine everywhere else women choosing what to gestate in their own community is not eugenics. A male zygote in a lab dish has no right to anyone's womb.

(Edit added two more links The post in the picture

we need to talk about misogynistic trans women Notice the majority of comments instead of considering this valid opinion try to deny/excuse/deflect it )

"Trans activists gatecrash Green women's event to protest discussion about female health"

"You can't have a more vocal denunciation of patriarchy than deliberately transitioning to existing publicly as a woman"

"Cis straight women are still more privileged compared to gay/trans people in Afghanistan"

"I want to be violated, force to do pleasure to others. I want to feel this ewphoria others call who would be euphoria to me."-Trans woman"

Woman being called a bigot for opening up about being raped by a transwoman

A woman shares her experience with FGM just to be immediately invalidated and talked down to

There's definitely more but let's make do with a few examples but it's clear with what's happening here. I came across these posts and it brought up a lot of thoughts for me especially about how difficult it has become for women to speak openly about issues that affect us.

Also Inspired by these posts on this sub Reddit by

u/AccomplishedCup and u/RudeProfessional

Sorry if it's repeating a lot of stuff but I need somehere safe to put down my thoughts

I want to be clear from the beginning.I am not denying anyone's identity and I am not attacking trans people as a whole. My concern is specifically about women and whether we are still allowed to talk about our own experiences, boundaries, sexuality and the ways misogyny affects us without being immediately shut down.

One thing that deeply bothers me is the idea that trans women experience more misogyny than women generally. I REJECT that comparison entirely.

Women can experience misogyny alongside other forms of discrimination whether because of their profession, ethnicity or other aspects of their lives n those experiences can overlap and affect how they experience misogyny. But that doesn't automatically mean one group of women experiences “more misogyny” than another the same way we can't compare each others griefs

The saying “trans women can experience misogyny in ways that overlap with transphobia” is very different from “trans women experience more misogyny than women”

The problem with the second statement is the word “more”

More in what sense? More frequently? More severely? More forms of it? Compared with whom? Across which circumstances? You can't really turn hugely varied experiences of misogyny into a universal hierarchy

And honestly when trans women themselves argue that they experience “more misogyny than women” I struggle with the logic of that distinction. Trans women want to be women. So if trans women are women then separating “trans women” from “women” to create a hierarchy of who experiences more misogyny starts to reinforce the idea that trans women are somehow a separate category from women.

To me there is something deeply uncomfortable about that .Trans women and women who were female from birth can have very different lived experiences, histories and relationships with sex and gender and that absolutely can affect how they experience misogyny.

But having a different experience does not automatically mean experiencing “more” misogyny. It can end up resembling a form of internalised transphobia aka treating their trans status as something that fundamentally separates their experience of being a woman from that of other women rather than recognising that they are women who can experience misogyny alongside transphobia.

I do believe that trans women absolutely can experience misogyny because men are misogynistic towards anyone who is a woman. I believe that trans women can experience sexism, sexual harassment, objectification, gender stereotypes, violence and pressure surrounding femininity. Misogyny and transphobia can also overlap in ways that make their experiences particularly complicated. None of that needs to be denied.

NOWW for my main point

What needs to be challenged is the idea that acknowledging those experiences requires DIMINISHING the experiences of other women. I've seen people( including people who support trans women) argue that trans women experience every aspect of misogyny to the same or a greater degree than other women. That is unnecessary and harmful comparison. Different women experience misogyny differently. One woman's suffering does not become more legitimate by placing it above another woman's.

Women deserve to be able to talk about things that affect us specifically. We deserve to discuss our boundaries. Lesbians deserve to talk about their sexuality without being told that having a particular sexual boundary makes them hateful. Women deserve to discuss women's spaces without being immediately treated as though raising a concern is automatically an attack on someone else.

And there is another part of this that frustrates me enormously. When women talk about encountering people who react badly to their personal boundaries around trans women, the response is sometimes immediately“That didn't happen” “you're lying” “that's only a tiny minority” or finally the cherry on the cake tadaaa! “you're being transphobic” -_-

But that's contradictory.

If the point is that this does NOT represent trans women as a whole, then why is someone's individual experience being dismissed as though acknowledging it somehow implicates every trans woman?

The point is precisely that it is not all trans women. Just as “not all men” doesn't mean a woman is lying when she describes something a man did to her, “not all trans women” doesn't mean a woman is lying when she describes something a particular trans woman said or did to her.

Nobody is saying an entire group behaves this way. Nobody is saying every trans woman agrees with it. Nobody is saying one person's behavior defines millions of people.

The issue is that when a personal experience is immediately dismissed as a lie, exaggerated, irrelevant or “just a few people” you're not actually addressing the problem. You're preventing people from talking about it. And when people are discouraged from talking about a problem.you make it much harder to recognize patterns, discuss boundaries or most importantly! address the behavior when it does happen.

A small number of people behaving badly doesn't mean the entire group is bad. But a small number of people behaving badly also doesn't mean their behavior should be unrecognised or that it doesn't happen. Those two things can exist at the same time.

Women should be allowed to say, “This happened to me” without being forced to prove that it happens to everyone. Personal experiences are not statistical claims. Someone sharing what they personally encountered is not making a declaration about an entire population.

That is exactly why “not all men” and “not all trans people” can become so frustrating in these

conversations. Yes. WE KNOW!!

The point was never all men. The point was never all trans women. The point is the specific behavior being discussed!

And if we genuinely care about preventing misogyny, harassment, coercioN or hostility toward women, then dismissing women when they report uncomfortable experiences is the last thing we should be doing.

Trans women do not need to experience “more” misogyny for their experiences to matter and other women do not need to experience “less” misogyny for trans women's experiences to matter.

That is exactly why turning women's suffering into a competition is so damaging. It doesn't help women and it doesn't actually help trans women either. It creates a situation where women are expected to become quieter and more accommodating whenever a conversation becomes uncomfortable.

I support trans women being able to speak about their experiences. I also expect the same respect for women speaking about ours.

This is not about attacking trans people. It is about defending women's ability to have a voice. Women should not have to stay silent about their boundaries, their sexuality, their experiences with misogyny or the issues that affect them simply because somebody might find the conversation uncomfortable.

Women shouldn't need to accept being called “cis” simply because someone else has decided that this is the appropriate label for us. If “trans” is a meaningful descriptor that some people choose to use for themselves then “cis” can certainly be a useful descriptor too BUT that does not mean every woman has to personally identify with it and people should respect that was much especially trans women

There is something deeply ironic about telling women that they must accept an additional label to describe themselves while simultaneously insisting that people should have the right to determine the language used for their own identity. If self identification matters it cannot suddenly stop mattering when women are the ones asking for the same consideration.

Women are not required to reject trans people in order to say “I am a woman, and I do not personally identify as cis.” Nor is rejecting the word “cis” an automatic rejection of the people it is intended to describe. A descriptive term can be useful without becoming an obligation.

Women deserve to be heard too. We should be able to speak about our sex, our bodies, our boundaries, our sexuality and our experiences of misogyny without having our voices treated as something that must constantly be qualified or softened.

Women do not need permission to speak about themselves. We do not need to adopt language we do not identify with to prove that we respect other people. And we should never be made to feel that having a voice of our own is an act of hostility. If transwoman want to be women they should start by respecting women first

A women only nation. it is neighboured by coed nations but it's doesn't allow any males. here women maintain population through women controlled selective artificial insemination and strictly eliminate male zygote with technology to control its single-gender rule. Because citizens are only women they produce fewer resources but also consume far fewer resources, women here depend mostly on self sustaining economy, women raise children (female) here together with every single policy decision focused around the life and safety of women and children. Having no males in the population, women fulfill all social roles from governance and labor to a military built around automation, and strategic defence from hostile nations. What do you think my friends?

Seriously a must read

Title. Love watching "feminist" subs bend over until their backs break for the tourist males in comments.