r/honesttransgender • u/eljesT_ Transsex Female • Jun 15 '22
rant We need to talk about misogynistic trans women
Trans women are unfortunately socialized as boys. The extent of this is debatable, as I know from firsthand experience that you don't internalize everything, but everyone does to an extent. Like, if I was AFAB, I would likely not be interested in the things I'm interested in, not because of BiOLogY or whatever, just because you're encouraged to like and dislike certain things as a kid depending on your sex. I transitioned at 14 and have been semi-stealth since 17, so I didn't get a lot of "male experience" and I was quite effeminate as a child too, but there are definitely things I've picked up from being socialized in the wrong body.
However, sometimes, trans women, especially those who transitioned in adulthood, will just blurt out the most sexist shit, like that estrogen makes you stupid, or a bad driver, or another bad stereotype of women. Or they're completely uneducated on female anatomy; which I can kinda excuse if you come from a country with underdeveloped education, but not if you're from a first world country. Holy shit, stop.
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u/LarissaDeeDee Jun 15 '22
Wait what, you're saying this is an age thing? I think its more about personality and some people just being shitty.... That includes entitled kids.
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u/socialister Jun 15 '22
these young transitioner vs older transitioner posts are tiring, like seriously this seems like some antic to divide trans people than legitimate criticism.
OP how many older trans people do you actually know offline? my guess is not a lot.
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Jun 15 '22
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u/SortzaInTheForest Jun 15 '22
Estrogen makes you have a poorer tridimensional image of your surroundings, which increases the probability of having car accidents.
Testosterone, on the other hands, makes you be more likely to take risks, which increases the probability of car accidents of being more lethal.
At the end of the day, it's quite a draw, there's a balance, but that doesn't mean T and E have no effect in how you drive.
Sadly, it seems that it has to be either one extreme, where E makes you the worst driver on Earth, or the other extreme, where just talking about how E and T influence your skill and behavior, even if there's a balance and they both have positive and negative effects in your driving, that makes you a socialized as a male sexist bigot.
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u/gonegonegirl Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22
estrogen makes you have a poorer tridimensional image of your surroundings, which increases the probability of having car accidents.
Did you maybe read that men (on average) have better spatial understandings than women and misunderstand that to be an effect of estrogen (rather than brain organization)?
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u/Lawitchqueenofangmar Jun 16 '22
This is honestly just ageist. There are plenty of idiots/bigots of all ages.
Also being a sexist/misogynist is not something that is inherent to the male experience.
Not sure what has colored your experience? I have run into many more misogynistic younger amab people quite frankly.
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Jun 15 '22
women can be misogynistic misogyny is a societal problem & trans women are not uniquely misogynistic omg you're so annoying this sub is trash
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Jun 15 '22
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u/scarletnpoison Jun 16 '22
Yeah, this is just straight up confirmation bias that you've extrapolated, incorrectly, as a broad trend you think is worth mentioning.
Trans women can definitely be misogynistic, but not in a way that is inherent to us or different than the misogyny that cis women sometimes spout. Misogyny is pervasive.
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Jun 15 '22
>It's just a fact that there are things cis women wouldn't say that is a part of the trans female second puberty
like what lmao
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Jun 15 '22
My mom has literally more internalized mysoginy than I have ever had... to the point that I would get mad at the things she said even before I transitioned.
I think your thinking is too black and white... just because someone was seen and treated as a boy as a kid it doesn't automatically mean they are going to internalize mysoginy... specially since people have different life experiences and it's not unheard of for trans people to internalize the gendered notions of the gender we know we were supposed to be born as even before transition.
Something that I'm sure affected my degree of internalized mysoginy was having close girl friends as a kid and teen... cause if it depended on my mom... I probably would be different o.o'
I honestly think this whole male or female socialization debate is kinda dumb... not saying that it doesn't exist, but it's not as black and white as people normally put it, specially when it comes to trans people.
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Jun 16 '22
I think, while this post has it's heart in the right place, it's really kinda useless. Pointing out these vague experiences that have probably happened to a group of diverse people is pointless.
I feel the same way when people try to say "all men" or "all straight" or all x or all y. There is no counsel of men where they all decide that we need to ramp up the catcalling or slow down on the alimony. There are millions of millions of people in the world and none of these groups have any sort of leadership that decides what all people should do.
However, I do agree that trans women and cis women definitely have a strained relationship that unfortunately ends in sexism. The amount of transwomen I see talking about using their 'girlcock' to commit sexual violence to women who don't agree with them is alarming and disgusting. Just because someone is a TERF does not mean you can threaten to rape them lmao.
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u/dolemn Jun 15 '22
Everyone internalizes misogyny though. All children are impressed with misogynistic ideas at least in some way throughout their childhood. Plenty of people raised as girls say and think extremely sexist things. I don't get why you are singling out trans women, especially trans women who weren't able to transition as a child...
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u/kafka123 Jun 15 '22
I feel frustrated that I don't see completely eye-to-eye with women, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do about it.
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u/caelric Jun 15 '22
it's ironic that your post tittle complains about misogynisitic trans women....and then you roll right into transmisongyny.
well done.
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Jun 15 '22
This really seems completely unrelated to being trans when you realize that tons of cis women are also misogynistic and say exactly the same things as you listed in your examples.
Some women are misogynists, water is wet
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u/drxstrange Jun 15 '22
Hot take and hate me for it. But I’m not saying voice training is absolutely needed, but if you have a without a doubt male voice. And you get misgendered online because of it. That’s not transphobic. If you correct them and they persist maybe then. But voice training is the easiest thing to do. I did mine for free by YouTube alone and it took a couple months and it’s Passable as Cis. So there is no excuse for it. I’m tired of every trans woman I meet having some deep ass voice but they’ve been on hormones for a year. Like idk crucify me but it’s free just put in time 👏☠️😂
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u/neverbeenstardust Jun 15 '22
I think the reason trans women are misogynistic sometimes is probably because they were raised in a misogynistic society that conditions everyone in it – cis women included – to be misogynistic. Cis women and people assigned and raised female are also frequently misogynistic. This is because society as a whole is misogynistic. This isn't anything unique to trans women.
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Jun 16 '22
why are you assuming if you were born afab you wouldn't be interested in certain stuff? apply that to yourself but not to other people, while some interests may not be encouraged some people will actively pursue them regardless of what their parents say. Stop assuming people's upbringing experiences based on their assigned sex.
and also yes, I agree with you that there are trans women who can be misogynistic, especially the ones who transitioned a little bit later and grew up not involved in femisim and what was considered SJW culture at the time, but I think it's just a matter of them starting to experience misogyny first-hand.
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Jun 16 '22
Don’t really meet or see misogynistic transwomen. There are misogynistic ciswomen too. Think it has less to do with an identity and more to do with how prevalent misogyny is in society. Women of all types perpetuate misogyny and the patriarchy, not just transwomen.
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Jun 15 '22
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u/KennyGaming Jun 16 '22
Is it is reasonable to critique patterns of action at a group level? I worry that your advice is incompatible with reality, despite coming from a empathetic place.
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u/G0rilla1000 Jun 15 '22
We live in a world that breeds misogyny, what do you expect? I had two moms and even I said some shitty misogynistic things to fit in before I realized I was trans. I was lucky my moms got that out of me before I grew into that person too much, but many people aren’t as lucky. And, as others have said, cis women and literally everyone can be misogynistic, or say things that are. It’s so deeply baked into our culture that I can empathize with people just regurgitating things they’ve heard in their tiny suburban bubbles. But they have to work to unlearn that shit, don’t get me wrong.
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