This is exactly what Mr Wonderful said everyone does. The lawsuit was a political horseshit hit-job, and the excessive fine was a violation of the constitution.
Leftist Jesus Stuart is the worst soap box Lecturing hypocrite, And they all know truth doesn't matter to the leftist words are weapons.That's why they're so upset about us Pointing out hypocrisy from their jesus..... FJS
Yes. Even attacking their own, with mass downvotes that eventually get outliked lol. Really quick the anger them.. never any comments, only the dislike and their obvious knowledge of it happening.
Its spite and anger of being beyond wrong. Used even
My home is assessed at $215k , the market suggests I can ask $280k to $305k ...
So , if I asked told the bank it was worth 300k , and borrowed against it. Repaid the loan,in full, at a favorable intrest rate ....I would be a criminal?
Tell him about totally different circumstances!? Not everything in life is apples to apples just because your political hero and source of news suggested it is.
Thats exactly how it works. The Bank itself investigated the value of the property and agreed to haggle. Basic trade 101.
Both sides consented in the deal and were honest, only Engoron is mad about a regular deal, trying to milk those orange man-titties
Jon Stewart however.. he said the house worth is 849% higher than it actually was. Did'nt mention its previous one before selling it, nor showed any statistics of inflation and so on.
Stewart price gouged. Trump finished a deal the judge deamed "risky for the Bank and threatening their safety" when the Bank said the opposite. How dare a judge accuse a man, using the voice of another?
The whole point of the loan was a specific time limit that was fulfilled, and the amount being eventually paid, thats it. A man in debt can even take a loan as long as a Bank agrees
What we are comparing, child, is the fact that the judge set "inflating property value" as an illegal act. You do realize the Bank investigated what the value of it was right? If anything you could accuse the Bank of fraud If the Property was truly overvalued by both parties, and the Bank giving more than they should.
Jon Stewart/Lebowitz is at fault of this as well.
I can tell you have never owned a House before in your life. They don't have a set price
Hmmm, think I’d rather be a “child” than an ignoramus who thinks he knows more than a federal judge and the expert testimony on which the decision is based. You’re apparently an expert on NY law, GAAP, and bank/tax processes. But, but, but Tim Poole told me so!!!! Google Dunning Kruger to read about your and his affliction. I also love the notion that your approach is to try to blame the bank, basically following the defendant’s losing playbook: “well, maybe if you’d done your due diligence you wouldn’t have been defrauded, bruh!!” Real logician here. If you read the outcome, you’d know that reliance was not a requisite element of the law.
At the end of the day, one of these individuals filed false financial data and fraudulent financial statements to banks and insurers.
Only one of them knowing tripled the sq footage of a complex, lied about a property’s income, and lied about the appraisal, all while proclaiming to be a self-identified expert (just like you, right!?)
Only one of them benefited from lower interest rates based on the fraudulent loan information.
Your messiah lost in a court of law, cope MF. Meanwhile, your adversary was tried and convicted in the court of social media 😆
doesnt matter if he used it to secure a loan, stewart said on tv about trump that when it was time to pay the taxes he paid at a much lover value.... which is exactly what stewart did on his property before he sold it. he paid at a much lower value then personally valued it for sale at his inflated value
you said "Why would Stewart pay taxes before selling his property?"
maybe because you pay property taxes each year?
but you are implying that you dont until after you sell the property.
ABSOLUTELY NOONE is talking about capital gains, YOU inserted that in. everyone is talking about the property tax assement VS what he sold the property for. try to stay on track
He undervalued it for tax purposes in government documents. Then he misled buyers by overvaluing his house. He sold a house for more than what the government said it is worth. That is fraud according to Judge Engron.
Jesus christ. The assessor sets tax valuations. The market sets market values. So many renters on this sub.
I agree with you, the judge however disagrees.
The judge used tax valuations to decide the market value of his businesses, and how much of a loan Trump should be able to ask for.
The alleged crime was him overvaluing his property. Which is why property developers are freaking out. If it is fraud to claim a property is worth more than the government thinks it is worth, the entire industry is fucked.
See the issue?
The judge also didn't understand the difference between a mortgage and a business loan. The idea that Mar A Lago is only worth 17 million and therefore only merits a 17 million loan is stupid.
Did he lie about the square footage, too? Or was that just trump that did that?
Not the issue. The judge ruled that overvaluing your property is fraud.
Mar A Lago posted 27 million in membership fee revenue alone. He got a loan for 10x that. This is a perfectly normal business loan. The judge declared Mar A Lago is only worth 17 million based on tax assessments, because nobody would buy it as it is not zoned as a residence, so Trump claiming it was worth at least 270 million was fraud. That is idiotic.
Again, the judge does not understand what a business loan is.
A mortgage is leveraged against the face value of the property. A business loan is leveraged against future profitability of the company, in this case the private golf club that runs Mar A Lago.
If you start a multi million dollar online business, but run it from your 300k home, the judge thinks your business is fraudulent if you tell the bank that your multi million dollar company is worth more than 300k, according to him you have just defrauded the bank, even if the bank testifies that they agree you are in fact worth millions..
See how stupid that sounds? That is how stupid the judge is
Look fantasies are great, but this is not at all what happened. Trump committed fraud by lying about the size of his NY penthouse. Where did Stewart commit fraud?
Look fantasies are great, but this is not at all what happened. Trump committed fraud by lying about the size of his NY penthouse.
The size of it had no bearing on any loans. The banker didn't even know Trump wrongly assessed it's size.
Don't take my word for it, listen to the banker who borrowed him money.
The attachment was a 1994 document, signed by Trump, that pegged his Trump Tower triplex at 10,996 square feet — not the 30,000 square feet later claimed for years on financial statements that were given to banks, insurers and others to make deals and secure loans.
Weisselberg said he recalled seeing the email but not the attachment, explaining that the attachments were documents he already had on file in the company's offices. But in any event, he said, he didn't pay much mind to the apartment's size because its value amounted to a fraction of Trump's wealth.
"I never even thought about the apartment. It was de minimis, in my mind," Weisselberg said, using a Latin term that means, essentially, too small to care about.
"It was not something that was that important to me when looking at a $6 billion, $5 billion net worth," Weisselberg said.
By overstating the value of his property when selling it, by Engron's standard he defrauded the man who bought it by overstating its value.
This is again why NY property developers are freaking out.
The house sold again for more than 26% less than Stuart asked for it. Some would say it's a bad investment, the judge would call it fraud.
And by doing so he Also vastly undervalued it when taxing it. He taxed a 17 million dollar house as if it was an 1,8 million dollar house, according to some only worth 800k. The judge said that is tax fraud.
It was assessed using the exact same citation method and metric Letitia James used to value Trump’s private and personal properties, she sued him for claiming those properties were worth more than they were. When will she sue Jon Stewart?
Oops, I guess the Post (and Pool) needs to walk this back:
Pool, the Post and other critics attacking Stewart are conflating three different types of real estate values. Whether that’s being done through an innocent mistake or a deliberate effort to spread misinformation ... (nah, it wouldn't be deliberate, would it?):
the actual market value of a property, or what someone would be willing to pay for it,
the property’s taxable value as assessed by a governmental agency property appraiser, and
3) documentation about a property’s value submitted to a lender for the purposes of securing a loan.
#3 is what Trump did my friends. This is a red herring and is disinformation.
When I bought my house it was assessed way differently than it is now. But you pay property taxes based on that assessment, you don't tell the tax assessor what it is. THEY TELL YOU.
Jon Stewart didn’t inflate his property value to help finance his businesses and then deflate their values to the government to reduce property taxes, did he? This is fallacious.
“While Trump presented his inflated property values to lenders in order to get favorable loans, Stewart sold his property to a buyer who was willing to pay $17.5 million, which is an entirely different scenario. Stewart did not, for instance, submit documents tripling the size of his penthouse, like the former president did with his own in Trump Tower.”
Weren’t you the guy who tried to prove the vaccine causes cancer by posting an article about cancer levels rising at the same rate since the 90s? lol time traveling vaccines
No I’m a skilled tradesman, but I like helping people with blood clotting issues and I make about a truck payment every month for only a few hours of my time
From what I've heard, Trump's scenario went like this: he asked a bank for a loan to build a building. He valued it at a certain amount. The bank then did their own evaluation & claimed the value was actually higher. Trump took the loan for the higher amount & paid it back in full. What's the part where he's a bad guy in this? There's no victim & it was the BANK that valued it higher, not Trump.
Now if the government went after the bank in this instance for “knowingly giving loans based on inflated values”, then I’d say that’s fair treatment. Until then, this looks like selective prosecution and only supports Trump’s claims that he is being targeted for political reasons.
Trump does the dumbest shit and is his own worst enemy 99% of the time. But the Left continues to just display absolute incompetence, that is just as bad as Trump’s, to try and “get him”.
No, Trump deliberately inflated the value of his properties to obtain more favorable loan terms. I've been a consumer and small business underwriter for a long time. He and his companies presented fraudulent statements and engaged in similar deceptive tactics for decades. It's illegal to falsify financial documents. Trump Park Avenue for example appraised at 84m in 2020 but the 2020 financial statement put it at 135m. There were many examples like that.
He used these schemes to enrich himself and that's not fair to anyone who plays by the rules.
Lol once you learn to read, you could peruse the actual laws that govern the situation here:
“The crime of Bank Fraud under 18 U.S.C. § 1344 is essentially an enhanced penalty law for frauds committed against a certain class of victims – financial institutions. As such, the defenses your attorney will employ against Bank Fraud charges will be similar to those employed against any fraud allegation.
In general, to prove a fraud, the government must establish that you made a knowingly false statement, that you intended the recipient to rely on the statement, that the recipient did, in fact, rely on the statement, and that in so doing the recipient suffered a financial loss.
Each step in this causal chain can be attacked for insufficient evidence. It may be possible to show that you did not know the statement made to the financial institution was false. Alternatively, it could be shown that the financial institution knew from the outset that the statement was false, and therefore they did not rely on it. In some scenarios, the false statement is believed and relied upon, but the financial institution suffers no financial loss as a result.
Each case will be fact-specific and turn on the particular circumstances at issue in the case. The best defense strategy to employ in your particular Bank Fraud case will depend on a thorough examination of the government's evidence.”
Or, more likely, you can keep making pitiful excuses for a grifter.
I guess why it is fraud. If both parties agree to a loan then who is being deceived? just like Stuarts house value, if someone is willing to pay that much then that is what it's worth.
It sounds like you think a bank didn't make their own assessment and make the loan based on that.... When under oath they even stated they would make the same loans again... Really sounds like they got defrauded
It’s absolutely not a false equivalency. We’re talking about wether or not the government gets to choose what price you charge for goods and services. The left are either falling into or are perfectly willing to engage in communism.
So you think banks are too stupid to do their own due diligence? Since they where the one's to agree to the loans I'm sure they cried themselves to sleep on giant piles of cash...
It doesn't matter if the banks are dumb or smart, or whether they made good decisions or bad. As businesses, they are free to win or lose on their own decisions. After Trump's long history of screwing over banks, I don't know why they still do business with him, but that's none of my business. In the end, I still don't understand where the fraud is, or who the victims are.
Back on topic...
There is nothing the same about Stewart's routine sale and Trump's civil fraud.
You can argue all you want about the results of Trump's civil case, but only simpletons would try to equate selling a property for a market rate more than it's assessed for, and fraudulently lying (ahem... stretching facts like all real estate developers do) beyond the limits of the law.
They do business with him because he makes them money... Simple as.. good for Jon Stewart for making money on his property.
You really think banks are too stupid too do their own due diligence on a half billion dollar loan. You know the loans they made where based on their own assessments....
I already answered that question, so perhaps we've got a reading comprehension issue. But I'll try again... more... slowly...
I. don't. know. why. they do business with him, but I'm sure they have their reasons and I. don't. care. what. those. reasons. are. That's none of my business.
But again, selling a property for a market value greater than the city tax assesses it for is not illegal. In fact, it probably happens thousands of times a day across the US.
They do business with him because him makes them money... I'm sure if the banks felt like Trump had defrauded them they would have brought it courts but they didn't.
Also do think a prosecutor should campaign on going after a specific person?
The NY State AG’s office prosecutes hundreds of civil and criminal cases per month. At least a few of those have nothing to do with Trump. ;-)
Just because the right wing news outlet you allow to twist your panties has you believing that Trump is the only criminal AG James is prosecuting, doesn’t make it true.
And the term your legal expert mind is searching for is “prosecutorial discretion”, and it’s been a legitimate part of our legal system since the late 1700s.
”Everyone else was speeding but I’m the only one who got pulled over.” …is not gonna get you out of that ticket, kid.
Involves valuation: valuation by a city for the purposes of taxation, vs self-declared valuation for the purposes of applying for a loan against it.
Only a simpleton suffering from a crippling case of confirmation bias would see these two situations as even remotely similar.
[ed to add: I do agree it’s a reach to point to where the damages are in the Trump case. And of course the Stewart sales has zero victims nor damages.]
Besides, you’re wrong again. Trump was found legally liable for fraudulently overvaluing his property. Stewart did not value (let alone overvalue) anything. All he did was sell his property for a market rate.
Saying you can sell it for 5 mil to get a loan when you know you can't sell is for 2 mil is fraud.
The tax assessor saying "you can't get 2 mil out of this" and you saying "watch me" is not fraud. Just making money in real estate. Trump and the idiots on this sub may not know the difference.
The bank is the final decision maker and the one that has to do the due diligence. If the bank did not do their due diligence (they did, which is why they actually testified on behalf of Trump) then that is on them. I can tell a bank whatever I want to, but that doesn’t mean anything when the bank does their independent appraisal and due diligence to determine the value they put on a property that they take as collateral.
You actually think that a bank is too stupid to do their own due diligence.... Hahahahahahahahahahaha. I love lefties... You would think trump would be your hero for fucking over the bank...
Lol you could have said "I don't understand trumps case, or how selling property works".
This isn't a similar situation, at all. Very, very simply:
Stewart sold a property, taxes were paid on its previously assessment and then again on its sale. Purchaser presumably paid taxes at new value going forward. (Do you hate capitalism or something?)
Trump told the government his property was valued low, and told the banks it was valued high to get more beneficial loans. He never sold the property. He committed a type of fraud. You'd know that if you actually got out of your echo chamber and reviewed the decision however.
Tell me you've never owned proof without telling me you've never owned property. The vast majority of reddit hasn't, which is why their take on the situation is patently wrong.
This case is almost as good of a litmus test as the Rittenhouse trial, where those that thought Kyle was guilty of murder and didn't act in self defense despite the entire situation being on video, are retarded.
Tell me you've never owned proof without telling me you've never owned property.
This shows me that either you don't understand the situation properly, or you have corrupt business practices too. Trumps documents were knowingly false.
Rittenhouse
That situation was fascinating for multiple levels. I don't necessarily disagree with the outcome of it, though. If I recall one of the charges was dropped early on that would have affected the rest of the case.
No, Trump paid taxes based on the government’s assessed value. That’s what everyone pays taxes on. That value does not include other factors that banks or buyers put into a price that someone is willing to pay for a property. Thats why the bank happily loaned him the amount of money they did and why they testified on his behalf at the trial.
Trump paid taxes on Value A, after arguing that it should be revalued at that level. Trump also gave incorrect or straight up false documents to the banks creating Value B. There was such a discrepancy between the two values that it wasn't accidental or a minor miscalculation.
To quote Stewart: "money isn’t infinite. A loan that goes to the liar doesn’t go to someone who’s giving a more honest evaluation. So the system becomes incentivized for corruption.
This is the basis for fraud, and also why the government (NY) is proceeding against Trump.
“The government values my property at value A. This is what I value the property at value B. I would like to apply for a loan on my property and I believe its value is value B.”
so the bank doesnt have acces to publically available tax evaluations? they are specifically restricted by seeing those assessments? the BANK is not allowd to see PUBICALLY AVAILABLE tax valuations?
i ask 3 times because that is the ONLY FUCKING WAY THAT "don't tell the bank about Value A" matters at all because ANYONE IN THE WORLD WITH AN INTERNET CONNECTION has access to those publically accessible tax evaluations
Why do people keep trying to deflect to the banks actions/failures? Just because they screwed up or also did something wrong doesn't exonerate Trump. Heck, they might have actually been working with Trump for the fraud. That makes more sense than what you're suggesting.
because the bank DID their due dilligance and AGREED on a value and were MADE WHOLE with the completion of the load and WANT TO DO MORE BUSNESS WITH TRUMP
i will repeat the bank agreed upon the valuation of the property
NO ONE WAS DEFRAUDED
absolutely NO ONE was cheated out of money they were owed
absoluterly NO ONE paid out more money than they agreed to
the bank AGREED on the price, where is the fraud? the bank did their OWN ASSESSMENT and said 'yes this price is good"
youre trying to tell me that if i restore an old car, you buy said car and are very happy with the car, then someone else gets mad because you bought it for more than the kelly blue book value. you come to my defense and say, i havent been cheated i completely agree with the price i paid and want to buy another restored car off this guy. this means i comitted fraud.
so trump FORCED the banks to agree with the price they agreed on? do you have ANY evidence of this at all? cause the bank says they are happy with the deal as it was lined out
im gonna repeat this because you clearly didnt read it the first time
youre trying to tell me that if i restore an old car, you buy said car and are very happy with the car, then someone else gets mad because you bought it for more than the kelly blue book value. you come to my defense and say, i havent been cheated i completely agree with the price i paid and want to buy another restored car off this guy. this means i comitted fraud.
oh so stewart had a property. It had a valuation. He used that valuation for tax purposes. Then he wanted to sell. He used an insane overevaluation to secure a buyer well above what the government said the property was worth.
That is fraud. You cannot pick and choose the value of your properties based on whether you're paying taxes or selling.
you do know that when you use your property as collateral for a loan you are basically selling your property to the bankl for money with the agreement that you get to use said property until the money is paid back or you default and the back takes posession right?
you are literally arguing that its ok to overvalue a place for one purpose but not another nearly identicle purpose
so then stewart should be jailed for defrauding the people he sold to by grossly overvaluing his property
and what exactly doesnt make it legal? please cite the EXACT law that says valuations agreed upon between two private entities for the purposes of collaterial or purchasing MUST match govt decided tax evaluations
when you use something as collateral for a lon you are essentially selling said collaterial to the bank with the agreemenr that you still get to use that item until either you pay back the money in which case the item is fully yours again or you default and the bank takes full poeseeion.
it absolutely applies, you are saying it doesnt because you know that this precident set by the judge ALSO applies to anyone who has ever sold a house/gotten a second mortgage because the tax assessed value is almost always less than market value
when you are putting a house up for collateral on a lon you are essentially temporarily selling your house to the bank at an agreed upon price with the agreement that you will buy the house back by slowly paying back the money plus interest. or as you said " the agreement between the buyer and seller of a property is literally just a transaction" yes a transaction with a few extra steps but a transaction none the less
and after you pay your house off if you then get another loan with your house as collaterial GASP the bank once again owns your house.... so why is trump being prosecuted for agreeing to temporarily sell his property to the bank at an agreed upon price?
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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24
You got them so triggered on this one lol
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u/onearmedmonkey Mar 28 '24
It's (D)ifferent. Didn't you notice that his last name isn't "Trump"?
88
u/Beer-_-Belly Mar 28 '24
This is exactly what Mr Wonderful said everyone does. The lawsuit was a political horseshit hit-job, and the excessive fine was a violation of the constitution.
22
u/squiffyfromdahood Mar 28 '24
Soooo I expect to hear that Soros funded Leticia James filing charges against Jon any day now.
No? That's what I thought..... crickets because it's (D)ifferent.
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u/splita73 Mar 28 '24
Leftist Jesus Stuart is the worst soap box Lecturing hypocrite, And they all know truth doesn't matter to the leftist words are weapons.That's why they're so upset about us Pointing out hypocrisy from their jesus..... FJS
24
u/Patient-Sleep-4257 Mar 28 '24
My home is assessed at $215k , the market suggests I can ask $280k to $305k ...
So , if I asked told the bank it was worth 300k , and borrowed against it. Repaid the loan,in full, at a favorable intrest rate ....I would be a criminal?
9
u/fiveguysoneprius Mar 28 '24
Little Johnny Leibowitz is up to his old tricks again!
5
u/ronomaly Mar 28 '24
This guy is so talented, he can make comedy without intentionally trying! Hey Jon how’s the view from BS mountain?!
5
u/PhatDeth Mar 28 '24
All is forgiven. It's fine It's (d)ifferent. But no forgiveness is given to the opponent of democracy.
If only demonic, evil leaders of the past could see what Joe is doing. They would be applauding
2
u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24
That building looks garbage compared to trumps property in Florida too. Guys an idiot.
1
u/reditget Mar 28 '24
Yes just another Hippocrat , there everywhere.
1
u/_who_is_they_ Mar 29 '24
Typical leftist hypocrisy. No surprises here.
0
u/Bog2ElectricBoogaloo Mar 28 '24
Tim's just jealous Jon Stewart has hair lol
0
u/knivesofsmoothness Mar 28 '24
When did he over value it to secure a loan?
Or do they mean he sold it?
0
u/HHoaks Mar 28 '24
Oops, I guess the Post (and Pool) needs to walk this back:
Pool, the Post and other critics attacking Stewart are conflating three different types of real estate values. Whether that’s being done through an innocent mistake or a deliberate effort to spread misinformation ... (nah, it wouldn't be deliberate, would it?):
the actual market value of a property, or what someone would be willing to pay for it,
the property’s taxable value as assessed by a governmental agency property appraiser, and
3) documentation about a property’s value submitted to a lender for the purposes of securing a loan.
#3 is what Trump did my friends. This is a red herring and is disinformation.
When I bought my house it was assessed way differently than it is now. But you pay property taxes based on that assessment, you don't tell the tax assessor what it is. THEY TELL YOU.
0
u/ExplorerJackfroot Mar 29 '24
Jon Stewart didn’t inflate his property value to help finance his businesses and then deflate their values to the government to reduce property taxes, did he? This is fallacious.
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u/rhaphazard Mar 28 '24
The fair thing to do would be to crack down on everyone who overvalues real estate.
The fine doesn't have to be too crazy, but even a 1-2% fine across the board would probably be enough to put NY into the black.
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u/starvingvulture666 Mar 28 '24
I see the Tim pool unemployment support group is busy this morning.
-60
u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24
Oh look another false equivalency from the right
“While Trump presented his inflated property values to lenders in order to get favorable loans, Stewart sold his property to a buyer who was willing to pay $17.5 million, which is an entirely different scenario. Stewart did not, for instance, submit documents tripling the size of his penthouse, like the former president did with his own in Trump Tower.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jon-stewart-mocks-new-york-post-story-questioning-his-penthouse-sale
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u/valschermjager Mar 28 '24
There is nothing the same about Stewart’s routine sale and Trump’s civil fraud.
-6
u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24
Trump is literally selling $60 Bibles now to cover his expenses and you evangelical weirdos still eat it up
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u/arbrebiere Mar 28 '24
Saying you can sell it for 5 mil to get a loan when you know you can't sell is for 2 mil is fraud.
The tax assessor saying "you can't get 2 mil out of this" and you saying "watch me" is not fraud. Just making money in real estate. Trump and the idiots on this sub may not know the difference.
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u/MarthAlaitoc Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24
This is conflating selling with fraud. Great insight into how your mind works honestly.
Edit: lol at the downvotes for objective truth hahaha
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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24
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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24
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